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The reason Patri didn't dodge is likely due to realizing who Gauche was, that's pretty much what the scene after that is sayingValsaryo said:
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Black Clover Speed
- Thread starter Arc7Kuroi
- Start date
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- Tags
- black clover
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Even if we play into the perspective that you guys are arguing:
Do you know how mcuh character's reacted to said attack with little to no effort (Divine Ray of Punishment):
Mereoleona
Nozel
Asta
Yuno
Those are all the character we would need to scale accordingly. Not to mention the last three did it to an amped up version of Patry. Again... I don't think this changes much...if anything at all?
Do you know how mcuh character's reacted to said attack with little to no effort (Divine Ray of Punishment):
Mereoleona
Nozel
Asta
Yuno
Those are all the character we would need to scale accordingly. Not to mention the last three did it to an amped up version of Patry. Again... I don't think this changes much...if anything at all?
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If so that's fine but what about someone not a top tier ?
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Not any time soon. I'm currently focused on a few other verses.
It might be best if this really just be looked into in detail post-forum move.
It might be best if this really just be looked into in detail post-forum move.
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If anyone wants to start working on some calcs in the meantime though, I will be around to evaluate those.
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Whether or not feats are legit or calced right or not is not my concern in terms of what I am about to say. But, I believe that if a verse is treating lightspeed as the highest level of speed, yet characters have feats that are beyond that, then the writers simply did not realize that what they said contradicted the feats and as such it shouldn't be used against the verse as not every writer is thinking about how certain things scale to previous arcs or other characters. We have verses in which thing lightspeed is something special when there are consistent FTL or even Immeaasurable feats. It's just an example of a writer not realizing how high their feats actually rate. It's the same with AP as well (like a verse acting like 100 tons of force is impressive when the verse has consistent Tier 4-3 feats) That's my opinion on this actual point.
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It's not just about lightspeed being special but a statement about a lightspeed attack being impossible to avoid; said towards a guy that the light magic user has been fighting for a couple of chapters. So that guy being casually FTL is inconsistent with what is happening.
Epsilon_R
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You know what you should think about? Feat>Statements.
Patry saying "Yami won't dodge it" should not take priority over Yami tagging both him and Raia. Even Nozel who is comparable to Yami deflected a faster version of this so-called "Fastest Magic", proving btw that Light Magic isn't the fastest
>And what preventing Patry from dodging his own attack ?
Ever heard of Plot-Induced Stupidity?
Patry saying "Yami won't dodge it" should not take priority over Yami tagging both him and Raia. Even Nozel who is comparable to Yami deflected a faster version of this so-called "Fastest Magic", proving btw that Light Magic isn't the fastest
>And what preventing Patry from dodging his own attack ?
Ever heard of Plot-Induced Stupidity?
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The only two things that were directly stated to be light speed were the movement spell and the ray. Everything else patri did was just really fast. And the speed of the movement spell shouldn't be the same as their reaction speed, cause we saw Raia able blitz Yami with the movement spell but when he jumped back physically he was slashed. The spell works more like teleportation. And in the case of Nozel delfecting the ray, there is a build up time for the spell and by the time the ray was fired Nozel's mercury was already in front of asta and yuno.
Epsilon_R
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>The only two things that were directly stated to be light speed were the movement spell and the ray
Guys, stop talking about a movement spell that doesn't even exist. Patry wasn't stated to move at lightspeed through a movement spell nor he was stated to have a spell making him move at lightspeed.
>cause we saw Raia able blitz Yami with the movement spell but when he jumped back physically he was slashed. The spell works more like teleportation.
Aaaand we are falling under assumptions...
>And in the case of Nozel delfecting the ray, there is a build up time for the spell and by the time the ray was fired Nozel's mercury was already in front of asta and yuno
Actually, we saw Nozel's mercury when the beam was already fired and it was just on top of yuno. The mercury still had the time to take the shape of a sphere before the beam touches him. And even then, the beam is a faster version of the normal one
Guys, stop talking about a movement spell that doesn't even exist. Patry wasn't stated to move at lightspeed through a movement spell nor he was stated to have a spell making him move at lightspeed.
>cause we saw Raia able blitz Yami with the movement spell but when he jumped back physically he was slashed. The spell works more like teleportation.
Aaaand we are falling under assumptions...
>And in the case of Nozel delfecting the ray, there is a build up time for the spell and by the time the ray was fired Nozel's mercury was already in front of asta and yuno
Actually, we saw Nozel's mercury when the beam was already fired and it was just on top of yuno. The mercury still had the time to take the shape of a sphere before the beam touches him. And even then, the beam is a faster version of the normal one
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We clearly see the turn into light particles whenever they move at light speed. Why would you think users of light magic are not using a spell to move at light speed?
The spell working like teleportation isn't an assumption just an observation. You can even see it when raia fights mereoreona. He uses the the light mocement spell to get away from her, but as soon as he was done traveling mereoreona blitzed him since she's faster than his reactions but not as fast as the movement spell
Go back and look at the panels again. It was already in front of them in the same panel the beam was fired. And since his mercury is a counter to light magic. just having some of it in front would deflect the beam and it can take shape while it's deflecting it.
The spell working like teleportation isn't an assumption just an observation. You can even see it when raia fights mereoreona. He uses the the light mocement spell to get away from her, but as soon as he was done traveling mereoreona blitzed him since she's faster than his reactions but not as fast as the movement spell
Go back and look at the panels again. It was already in front of them in the same panel the beam was fired. And since his mercury is a counter to light magic. just having some of it in front would deflect the beam and it can take shape while it's deflecting it.
Epsilon_R
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Each time Patry moves:
https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0046-019.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0047-015.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0047-016.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0049-004.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0049-016.png
There's no light particles, like, at all. And even if, turning into light particles just means they become intangible, that doesn't mean they are moving at lightspeed.
>The spell working like teleportation isn't an assumption just an observation. You can even see it when raia fights mereoreona. He uses the the light mocement spell to get away from her, but as soon as he was done traveling mereoreona blitzed him since she's faster than his reactions but not as fast as the movement spell
Was it even stated to be a light magic spell to begin with?
>Go back and look at the panels again. It was already in front of them in the same panel the beam was fired. And since his mercury is a counter to light magic. just having some of it in front would deflect the beam and it can take shape while it's deflecting it.
I looked at the panels, I know what happened. I won't waste my time arguing in circles so I'll wait until the feat is calced
https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0046-019.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0047-015.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0047-016.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0049-004.png https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0049-016.png
There's no light particles, like, at all. And even if, turning into light particles just means they become intangible, that doesn't mean they are moving at lightspeed.
>The spell working like teleportation isn't an assumption just an observation. You can even see it when raia fights mereoreona. He uses the the light mocement spell to get away from her, but as soon as he was done traveling mereoreona blitzed him since she's faster than his reactions but not as fast as the movement spell
Was it even stated to be a light magic spell to begin with?
>Go back and look at the panels again. It was already in front of them in the same panel the beam was fired. And since his mercury is a counter to light magic. just having some of it in front would deflect the beam and it can take shape while it's deflecting it.
I looked at the panels, I know what happened. I won't waste my time arguing in circles so I'll wait until the feat is calced
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https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0137-002.png
https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0150-012.png
This is how it looks later on. The speed is directly stated to be a property of light magic which is why the only ones we saw moving in this fashion during these fights were patri and raia who copied patri's grimoire. The anime even clarifies this
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11123/111235494/6743303-4583793016-67432.gif
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11123/111235494/6743306-1175304451-67427.gif
There's nothing that suggests that there regular physical movements are lightspeed, which is why despite not being able to react to raia's initial movement with the spell yami could tag him when he just jumped away
https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0150-012.png
This is how it looks later on. The speed is directly stated to be a property of light magic which is why the only ones we saw moving in this fashion during these fights were patri and raia who copied patri's grimoire. The anime even clarifies this
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11123/111235494/6743303-4583793016-67432.gif
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11123/111235494/6743306-1175304451-67427.gif
There's nothing that suggests that there regular physical movements are lightspeed, which is why despite not being able to react to raia's initial movement with the spell yami could tag him when he just jumped away
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Which makes more sense, since Raia can only copy spells right?
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Even then, considering people legitimately avoid it and feats can be legitimately calced shows that this statement no longer holds water for characters of that level and beyond and should be disregarded for these characters as feats prove that lightspeed attacks no longer are an issue to be dodged. It becomes a situation of the writer not really paying attention to the feats they have given the characters and I do no believe we should limit characters by that statement.Damage3245 said:
Although, I will say that personally, the group should only have FTL reactions and that it should not scale to movement speed. But that's just me.
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@Dragonmasterxyz; we shall have to see what results the calcs bring.
You could just as easily make the argument that the writer doesn't understand speed of light and characters shouldn't be scaling to be superior to it just because the writer is confused.
If Asta ends up getting a calc that puts him as FTL or FTL+ but he has antifeats of getting blitzed by characters moving at lightspeed or slower, then there is a massive problem.
You could just as easily make the argument that the writer doesn't understand speed of light and characters shouldn't be scaling to be superior to it just because the writer is confused.
If Asta ends up getting a calc that puts him as FTL or FTL+ but he has antifeats of getting blitzed by characters moving at lightspeed or slower, then there is a massive problem.
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I would say that the feats speak for themselves in that case. The feats say he's able to react to light and thus it's more on the lines that the writer simply did not think about the nature of the feats. And if Asta is getting blitzed by Lightspeed characters despite scaling to characters who can react to light, that would mean the light user's light attacks are now much faster than light as well. Lightspeed at this point is just a baseline for the light attacks, but they could easily be faster with scaling and feats. At that point, them being "lightspeed" only is contradicted by the feats presented by the series.
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the verse doesn't have a single accepted speed calc as far as i'm aware.
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We have to wait for calcs then (even I did not realize this). Let's see what happens and go from there.
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Same, I'll let you all argue obout what attacks are and aren't lightspeed yourselves. I am also unsubbing as I eon't be very active until the forum move is done ubless someone requests me.
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Dragonmasterxyz said:
This right here. I don't know why people can't understand that fiction can literally work like this.
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This jsut isn't true and as a calc group member Damage you should know that scaling like that just means the character who blitz him will still scaleDamage3245 said:
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err tbh I agree with the OP, I have had multiple doubts about BC's light speed and the chapter about lightning basically supports those doubts. Though I can see LS reactions for some characters and LS attack speed for light users using some abilities as well as LS movement for light users with their teleportation. I definitely do not think that BC has LS normal movement and I dont know why it is put on their profile as if it scales to everything they do.
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In the fight with Yami this isn't ever shown, yet Yami says that he moves at lightspeed to dodge his attacks. This seems more like the presentation of something changing as the story goes forward.Argevil said:
And the thing with the Black Clover anime is that it often changes the presentation of battles, just like at Licht vs Yuno and Asta, or Patri vs Julius, each of those fights add in entirely new things that weren't ever present in the manga as is the case with Yami vs Patri. In the fight within the manga, we're only ever given the FLASH sound effect to signify he's moving rather fast. So you know what, Yami then tags Raia when he uses that same exact technique to try and get away from him.
