Black Clover: Cosmology and Resistance

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

With Black Clover #360, we come across a very interesting set of statements from Lucius.

During his fight against Yuno, he notes that the futures he’s seen, the strongest one was when the Spade Rebellion was an event that didn’t occur, and that he took years to master Star Magic. Yet, through some way, the Yuno he’s fighting is not only even stronger, but in less the time.

But this isn’t a lone sentiment, Noelle, in the future she currently resides in, shouldn’t be as strong. Mereoleona, and Fuegoleon, even the Magic Knights themselves them even shouldn’t be alive. In that vein, when he theorized why this world is so unorthodox compared to the other futures, he concludes he cannot see the future of this sole world, a direct result of Asta’s actions.

Note, the usage of “futures” and “worlds”, is a textbook reference to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, which at a minimum puts Black Clover’s verse at 2-B, though no one actually scales to this, obviously (lol), and also puts Lucius’ precognition at similar levels.

This isn’t mere conjecture, by the way, as “世界”, refers to “the world; society; the universe”, and given the context of the raws, they very much use the same kanji. Along with the full scene in Japanese, for reference. This, also, isn’t a new occurrence, as Lucius already proves himself capable of seeing “thousands of futures”.

Overall, though, this should implant a resistance to the aforementioned parties (Yuno, Noelle, Mereoleona, Fuegoleon, and Asta).

 

[Stryker861]

i dont think the full chapter is out so this should be put on hold for now

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

i dont think the full chapter is out so this should be put on hold for now

TCB is out, so it’s fine.

 

[Stryker861]

TCB is out, so it’s fine.

alright cool, im not caught up yet so im going to be neutral for now

 

[Damage3245]

It's not out officially yet so I'm locking this. Be patient people.

 

[DarkGrath]

I've unlocked this thread at the thread creator's request.

 

[Damage3245]

Once again, I am locking this thread.

@DarkGrath Check the message above.


EDIT: Re-opened the thread now that the chapter has been released.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

We’re so back, chat. OP was edited accordingly, with new evidence.

Alongside that, Lucius’ new Precognition justification:

[[Precognition]] (4D - Multiversal - His foresight allows him to see possible worlds and futures, as to which he claims to be capable of seeing tens of thousands of them)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Perfecto

 

[Deceived3596]

What, are these possible words and futures separate timelines or branching timelines from a main timeline?

Because if it's the ladder than sadly it can't be 2-B, it would only be Low 2-C at most because of new precognition rules set in place by @PrinceofPein in this thread.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Will respond tomorrow, sleepy.

 

[Deceived3596]

GN

 

[CloverDragon03]

What, are these possible words and futures separate timelines or branching timelines from a main timeline?

Because if it's the ladder than sadly it can't be 2-B, it would only be Low 2-C at most because of new precognition rules set in place by @PrinceofPein in this thread.

They're separate timelines. For instance, there's a timeline where the Spade Kingdom rebellion never happened and thus Yuno grew up in the Spade Kingdom

 

[Arnoldstone18]

And Lucius can view more than 10,000 of these times lines. Which is why it’s 2-B cuz it’s >1000 STC. Unless Pain’s thread says otherwise

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

10K futures seems pretty straightforward statement. Well if there are evidence for each being Separated futures then it's pretty clear 2B Precognition.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Actually just went back it implies at least tens of thousands of futures, not just >10k.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Actually just went back it implies at least tens of thousands of futures, not just >10k.

I think it's at least 20K (tens = more than one ten, so at least two tens)

 

[Deceived3596]

They're separate timelines. For instance, there's a timeline where the Spade Kingdom rebellion never happened and thus Yuno grew up in the Spade Kingdom

I don't believe that would necessarily prove those are separate timelines but I could be wrong, someone more knowledgeable should comment on the thread and we'll see what their opinion is.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't believe that would necessarily prove those are separate timelines but I could be wrong, someone more knowledgeable should comment on the thread and we'll see what their opinion is.

let me guess pain made it harder to determine what counts as separate timelines.

According to pain’s OP, seeing mere moments doesn’t count but Lucius doesn’t see just moments. Lucius can see multiple futures of an entire person’s life from the time they were born to the end of their lives as he makes inferences on whether or not they will become a threat and if any of those futures are a threat to him. He sees the futures of worlds where characters do their thing all throughout their lives. In each of those futures he sees his success of being the ultimate wizard emperor and ruling the world for ever since they’re all immortal (well obviously except one that Asta and his actions negged).

I will speak with you on discord for personal questions and concerns concerning pain’s thread specifically but for now Lucius does see tens of thousands of separate timelines which qualify as 2-B

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

What, are these possible words and futures separate timelines or branching timelines from a main timeline?

Because if it's the ladder than sadly it can't be 2-B, it would only be Low 2-C at most because of new precognition rules set in place by @PrinceofPein in this thread.

The former. As far as I’ve read, there’s been no established “main timeline” that all others are derivative of, the only significant thing about this timeline is due to Asta’s irregular existence.

 

[Xinsignia1]

And Lucius can view more than 10,000 of these times lines. Which is why it’s 2-B cuz it’s >1000 STC. Unless Pain’s thread says otherwise

Would it be 20,000k+ minimum since he said "tens of thousands" ?

*Edit: Just saw you pointed it out afterwards. All good chief, my fault!

+ I agree

 

[Stryker861]

Pretty straightforward I agree

 

[Quantu]

I agree. The only point of doubt could come from whether each of these worlds he foresaw were other seperate timelines, or varying visions of the future of the current world.

But it's clearly the former, since Lucius actually refers to Asta impeding his vision of "this world", implying the others are there own separate ones.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Agree FRA.

 

[Epsilon_R]

I agree as well

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Okay I think I’ll just go ahead and call staff

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Maxeez]

seems fine.

 

[MisterEli8730]

As a Black Clover fan, I fully heartedly agree

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright, will apply soon.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Wanna ask again, does anyone have any issues with the aforementioned people getting resistance to precog, maybe fate manip? I know Asta resists both off this chapter.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Wanna ask again, does anyone have any issues with the aforementioned people getting resistance to precog, maybe fate manip? I know Asta resists both off this chapter.

They seem fine.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Wanna ask again, does anyone have any issues with the aforementioned people getting resistance to precog, maybe fate manip? I know Asta resists both off this chapter.

Nope, do your thing ^

 

[speedster352]

Shouldn’t this only apply to Asta he was the one who influenced things.

 

[Worthless]

Wanna ask again, does anyone have any issues with the aforementioned people getting resistance to precog, maybe fate manip? I know Asta resists both off this chapter.

Although it's me who suggested this 2B to you but since a certain BC fan here made me laughed I will mention the main problem to it (It's for this reason why i didn't come here to agree to this)

The futures - worlds that Lucius saw is most likely the futures he saw from 18 years ago and i will explain why at the exact chapter where you got the scans to justify the "separate timelines" Lucius said "The world where Yuno is the strongest, is the world where the rebellion didn't happen" and the rebellion he is talking about here, is the events that happened 18 years ago - which is caused by his own siblings.

Yuno is a threat to his plan and so they did that, they rebelled in order to stop that version of Yuno from being born.

That's also the same year Astaroth disappeared from the underworld and also the same year Julius appeared in clover kingdom.

Therefore those futures/worlds that he is talking about in that chapter is the most likely the futures he saw from 18 years ago. (Lucius character is base on Aizen from Bleach who planned everything from the start and who even knows Ichigo from birth).

There is so many scans that supports this argument like Adrammalech saying "It went basically the way you said it would, Lucius Zogratis" which Lucius answer with "Yes, the time has come" which strongly emphasis that he planned/predicted everything from the start.

Some people here already knows this problem but pretends to be ignorant about it.

"This world" just means "This future".

Therefore the argument about those futures - worlds being a separate space-time is wrong,
As i explained above.

But since it would be... kinda fun to see 2B - BC i would like you or someone else to prove me wrong (Tho i already know it's going to be an argument comes from a wank)

What, are these possible words and futures separate timelines or branching timelines from a main timeline?

Because if it's the ladder than sadly it can't be 2-B, it would only be Low 2-C at most because of new precognition rules set in place by @PrinceofPein in this thread.

Latter

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I don't believe that would necessarily prove those are separate timelines but I could be wrong, someone more knowledgeable should comment on the thread and we'll see what their opinion is.

As stated by DonttalkTD in the branching timeline revision.
As long as the branch can be proven to extend infinitely into the future it qualifies as a low 2-C structure.
Although the destruction of such must be evaluated case by case.
Destroying for example 6 branches using Paradox like destroying the past will not count and could be rated as either 3-A (High 3-A if infinite sized) or low 2-C depending on the extent of what was destroyed to cause the paradox to also erase the other branch.

although most fiction sometimes makes it so that the past being destroyed in another branch somehow doesn't affect other branches even if the past is destroyed
the present and future is still within the timeline and if the future still extends infinitely it's still treated as a low 2-C structure alone even without its past if this is the case although illogical it is still valid

In conclusion, the branching timelines, separate or not, can still let qualify and destroy an entire branch across past to the future would only be low 2-C even if it causes paradoxical destruction of other branches. but if proven that the destruction destroyed other branches without paradox it would and could qualify for 2-C or more

 

[MisterEli8730]

Shouldn’t this only apply to Asta he was the one who influenced things.

Yeah, I was thinking that. It originated from Asta meaning that the others don't have resistance but are just affected by Asta's resistance.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, I was thinking that. It originated from Asta meaning that the others don't have resistance but are just affected by Asta's resistance.

That’s not the case, actually, because they still managed to exceed their maximum potential as foreseen by Lucius. Irregardless of Asta caused it, they still have the resistance.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I also don’t care about the branching timeline bit since no one scales anyways.