Bill Cipher CRT Part 3

[Thanganimator]

No what I'm talking about here is not NEP3 but Bill's Dimension Manipulation, a character advancing to a higher dimension on his own without any help from a higher dimension character or power from higher dimension is an anti-feat as far as I know.

Higher Dimensions have literally nothing to do with neither Nonexistence nor Dualities, what? They're abstract states of existence which define the nature of a being, simply adding spatial coordinates does not do that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No what I'm talking about here is not NEP3 but Bill's Dimension Manipulation, a character advancing to a higher dimension on his own without any help from a higher dimension character or power from higher dimension is an anti-feat as far as I know.

And this from where it comes from?

I think you're confusing it with the 1-A standards if anything.

 

[Thanganimator]

And this from where it comes from?

I think you're confusing it with the 1-A standards if anything.

Ah yeah, I was confusing, sorry

 

[Thanganimator]

Bill should have precog negation Acausality 4 because he precog how he's death and he have Acausality 4

 

[Thanganimator]

And this from where it comes from?

I think you're confusing it with the 1-A standards if anything.

Hey StrymULTRA I think Bill also added that reality is not only created by code but also by madness, meaning madness is also the fundamental of reality, is that enough to get to a concept type 2? I mean like Ji Ning, the Dao exists in everything and control them, that's enough to be a concept manipulation type 2, so Bill should, right?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Hey StrymULTRA I think Bill also added that reality is not only created by code but also by madness, meaning madness is also the fundamental of reality, is that enough to get to a concept type 2? I mean like Ji Ning, the Dao exists in everything and control them, that's enough to be a concept manipulation type 2, so Bill should, right?

No, you need to prove that if madness was destroyed then universe would destroyed or if madness was changed then the universe would altered in some way to fit this new conceptual definition, just because universe are made of madness not means it's Concept Type 2

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

 

[Thanganimator]

Bill said this
"REALITY IS MADE OF CODE AND MADNESS AND TINY, TINY LEGOS. EVERYTHING BIG IS MADE OF SOMETHING SMALL, AND EVERYTHING SMALL CAN BE MANIPULATED INTO SOMETHING NEW. YOUR SENSES ARE LYING TO YOU. SO IT’S TIME TO START LYING TO YOUR SENSES AND PICK A BETTER REALITY."
So it seems like Bill is implying that changing these things will change reality and he says "I can show you how" but the next page he just says the universe is a card and doesn't say anything more about madness, I'm not sure if the madness that constitutes Bill's reality is just implied or not

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Bill said this
"REALITY IS MADE OF CODE AND MADNESS AND TINY, TINY LEGOS. EVERYTHING BIG IS MADE OF SOMETHING SMALL, AND EVERYTHING SMALL CAN BE MANIPULATED INTO SOMETHING NEW. YOUR SENSES ARE LYING TO YOU. SO IT’S TIME TO START LYING TO YOUR SENSES AND PICK A BETTER REALITY."
So it seems like Bill is implying that changing these things will change reality and he says "I can show you how" but the next page he just says the universe is a card and doesn't say anything more about madness, I'm not sure if the madness that constitutes Bill's reality is just implied or not

Not even mean it. It just say Reality made of code and madness (which is just Information Type 2), and everything small can be manipulated into something new is just Reality Warping, and the rest of the things idk what he means. Whoever there also no Conceptual Type 2 here

 

[AsterReal]

Bill mentions that atoms in the form of just were the only things left from his dimension.

And let's look back at the definition of EE here:
> Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful enough uses of this ability can even erase the mind and soul, if not more fundamental aspects of one's existence, such as concepts.

EE requires that nothing is left behind, not even an atom. Plus we don't even know how Bill has actually destroyed it, just that he's "liberated it", which makes me think the dimension got destroyed by its own after that Bill tried to show them the 3rd dimension.

This is the most debated thing, and no. Bill does not remotely qualify for Type 1 Nonduality.

Nonduality is basically an state of existence which makes the user above a dual system which defines everything in existence (ex. 1 being part of everything that exists, and 0 being everything that does not exist, so everything in reality must be either 1 or 0). To be nondual, Bill would need to be outside either of these concepts, thus be in a state where he's be above both 0 and 1. But here he's simply both existing and not existing similairly to how in (his version of) Quantum Uncertainty, Schroedinger's cat is simply both dead and alive, he's not in a state where he's undefined from both existence and nonexistence, but he's simply being both at the same time, which is not the same thing.

So this is simple NEP 3, and nothing else.


Where is Bill fitting this?

This is Cosmic Awareness if anything. Photographic Memory is remembering everything to the last accurate detail, which is not that.



This is just Precognition and Telepathy.

Definitely too vague to grant anything. It can also just Bill be an edgelord than being immune to literal attempts to change his morality through hax.

Sure.

It also says that his greatest love is himself... And he has no problems in interacting with his own clones in the show and the BoB (he even made an interview with himself), so I think this is just another nonsensical funny sentence.

Sure.

I share the same thought.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I share the same thought.

I see everything

 

[Thanganimator]

Not even mean it. It just say Reality made of code and madness (which is just Information Type 2), and everything small can be manipulated into something new is just Reality Warping, and the rest of the things idk what he means. Whoever there also no Conceptual Type 2 here

What I mean is that Ji Ning also has Concept Manipulation Type 2 because the Dao exists as the foundation of everything and governs it, and he can control it. Similarly, Bill says that reality is constituted by code and madness. Everything big is made of something small, and here the "small things" Bill refers to are precisely those codes and madness. Changing them would create something new. So maybe Multiverse is Information Type 2 and Concept type 2?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

What I mean is that Ji Ning also has Concept Manipulation Type 2 because the Dao exists as the foundation of everything and governs it, and he can control it. Similarly, Bill says that reality is constituted by code and madness. Everything big is made of something small, and here the "small things" Bill refers to are precisely those codes and madness. Changing them would create something new. So maybe Multiverse is Information Type 2 and Concept type 2?

None of these are even considered Conceptual Type 2, also Daos don't just "the foundation of everything and governs it", it also governs abstracts concepts and change it, also changes everything

 

[Thanganimator]

None of these are even considered Conceptual Type 2, also Daos don't just "the foundation of everything and governs it", it also governs abstracts concepts and change it, also changes everything

What do you mean Daos also govern abstract concept? I just see it's say Daos exist in all things and governing it on his profile

"Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Daos exists in all things[48] and are the the governing principles of the world that existed since the creation of the universe.[49] He has mastered the complete Dao of Rainwater, which allows him to bring about the presence of the Dao to an area around him and completely control it[50] as well as the Dao of the Gale.[51] and the Dao of the Inferno[52])"

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

What do you mean Daos also govern abstract concept? I just see it's say Daos exist in all things and governing it on his profile

"Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Daos exists in all things[48] and are the the governing principles of the world that existed since the creation of the universe.[49] He has mastered the complete Dao of Rainwater, which allows him to bring about the presence of the Dao to an area around him and completely control it[50] as well as the Dao of the Gale.[51] and the Dao of the Inferno[52])"

If i'm correct, Dao is also concepts anyway you can't use another verse argument unless if know verse like Knowledgeable Members

 

[Thanganimator]

If i'm correct, Dao is also concepts anyway you can't use another verse argument unless if know verse like Knowledgeable Members

Huh... so I guess madness should be a fundamental aspect, though i don't know what hax bill will have from it, Madness manipulation fundamental?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Huh... so I guess madness should be a fundamental aspect, though i don't know what hax bill will have from it, Madness manipulation fundamental?

It would be High degree of Madness

 

[Thanganimator]

It would be High degree of Madness

Does that help in combat?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Does that help in combat?

According to what he starts in combat

 

[Thanganimator]

So according to what Bill said reality has two properties, the physical realm and the realm of ideas, and is connected through the mind, but in the end, these two realms that Bill combines into reality are just made by code and madness (that mean information type 2, madness governing realm of idea which is made of idea so idea in this realm should be fundamental aspect). The nature of the multiverse in Gravity Fall would be Information Type 2, Madness Fundamental, and Bill said what has happened, is happening and will happen encoded along the card border would be Past-Present-Future/History
Multiverse = Information type 2/Madness Fundamental/Past-present-future/history although I don't know what benefit this has when Bill can't affect the foundation and his EE is overtime but whatever

 

[Thanganimator]

According to what he starts in combat

Bill said that the past, present, and future are encoded along the card’s border, and since time itself is just past, present, and future, wouldn’t that mean time = Information Type 2 too?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Not knowledgeable member, but the knowledgeable members that i know them here is @StrymULTRA and @TheOrangeGuy09

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok. Been busy all week and allat so I couldn't really reply here. But...

Hey StrymULTRA I think Bill also added that reality is not only created by code but also by madness, meaning madness is also the fundamental of reality, is that enough to get to a concept type 2? I mean like Ji Ning, the Dao exists in everything and control them, that's enough to be a concept manipulation type 2, so Bill should, right?

There is nothing saying that everything in the verse is made of madness, I have no idea from where that does come from.

Bill can warp reality while also having madness-related powers, sure. But that does not mean that madness is an abstract substance that is underneath reality itself, but simply that Bill can manipulate madness as a result of his reality warping, and not the other way around.

 

[Thanganimator]

Ok. Been busy all week and allat so I couldn't really reply here. But...

There is nothing saying that everything in the verse is made of madness, I have no idea from where that does come from.

Bill can warp reality while also having madness-related powers, sure. But that does not mean that madness is an abstract substance that is underneath reality itself, but simply that Bill can manipulate madness as a result of his reality warping, and not the other way around.

Bill said that along with reality being made of code "Reality is made of code and madness..." but now I think that's just Bill's metaphor for the absurdity and chaos of the universe, information type 2 should still be kept

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bill said that along with reality being made of code "Reality is made of code and madness..."

Ok so I didn't remember the "Madness" part here.

But yeah, he's not specifying what Madness is here specifically, I think you've been seeing it with too much VBW-ism.

 

[Thanganimator]

Ok so I didn't remember the "Madness" part here.

But yeah, he's not specifying what Madness is here specifically, I think you've been seeing it with too much VBW-ism.

Yah, wanting Bill to be stronger is making me overthink, but what do you think about Bill saying the past, present, and future are encoded along the border of the card? Since time is past, present and future does that mean time = information type 2 or something?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yah, wanting Bill to be stronger is making me overthink, but what do you think about Bill saying the past, present, and future are encoded along the border of the card? Since time is past, present and future does that mean time = information type 2 or something?

It just means that Time is made of Information and beneath it, not that it's equivalent.

 

[Thanganimator]

It just means that Time is made of Information and beneath it, not that it's equivalent.

Hmm... about Many World Interpretation, is that branching casaulity? Meaning that casaulity exist in time?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Meaning that casaulity exist in time?

Causality is always assumed to be linked with time unless stated otherwise.

 

[Thanganimator]

Causality is always assumed to be linked with time unless stated otherwise.

Yeah but I mean causality exist in time like Summertime Rendering

 

[Greatsage13th]

Resistance to Morality Manipulation (He has no regard for morality)
^^^^
The above does not equate to resistance.

lifting strength should be up to Immeasurable with potentially Higher Dimensional Existence (He can ascend to higher dimensions)
^^^^
The above is based on false premises as you can't be higher dimensional just because you can ascend to higher dimensions nor gain immeasurable lifting strength from it.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Resistance to Morality Manipulation (He has no regard for morality)
^^^^
The above does not equate to resistance.

lifting strength should be up to Immeasurable with potentially Higher Dimensional Existence (He can ascend to higher dimensions)
^^^^
The above is based on false premises as you can't be higher dimensional just because you can ascend to higher dimensions nor gain immeasurable lifting strength from it.

This seems good.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The above is based on false premises as you can't be higher dimensional just because you can ascend to higher dimensions nor gain immeasurable lifting strength from it.

He already has potential higher-dimensional existence, but I don’t think HDE = Immeasurable LS.

I share same sentiments as Strym.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree with StrymULTRA on pretty much everything.

 

[VIZION99]

I agree with StrymULTRA on pretty much everything.

But I added some extra stuff on the CRT after he reviewed it such as Deconstruction, Toon Force, Illusion Creation. Also he didn't said anything about the lifting strength.

Can you tell me what is approved on the CRT?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

But I added some extra stuff on the CRT after he reviewed it such as Deconstruction, Toon Force, Illusion Creation. Also he didn't said anything about the lifting strength.

The only thing I disagree with there is Toon Force. Possibly Immeasurable Lifting Strength should be fine as well, since HDE is already on the profile.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Possibly Immeasurable Lifting Strength should be fine as well, since HDE is already on the profile.

I don't agree with this ngl.

Being HDE = Having Tier 1 power, and that's a thing in-verse already, so why is LS good?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Being HDE = Having Tier 1 power, and that's a thing in-verse already, so why is LS good?

I'm confused. Bill's profile has HDE, and HDE Beings have Immeasurable Lifting Strength. Are spatial dimensions in Gravity Falls not size-based?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm confused. Bill's profile has HDE, and HDE Beings have Immeasurable Lifting Strength. Are spatial dimensions in Gravity Falls not size-based?

From the cosmology blog:

The Trilazzxx Beta aliens dying as a result of their ship crashing on Earth is not a disqualifier for the higher dimensions being superior to the lower ones, as higher dimensional beings can still be weaker than lower dimensional ones, and only the size of the higher dimensions is relevant to the cosmology, rather than the power of its inhabitants. This also isn't the only case of beings having power that's greatly different than their dimensionality, as unlike other 2-D beings that were still bound to their universe like the ones of the comic world, Exwhylia inhabitants were about to kill the 3-D Stanford despite being 2-D themselves, Bill was able to fight the 3-D Time Baby and destroy planets while he was still a 2-Dimensional being, or to destroy the whole higher dimensional Multiverse during the Weirdmageddon despite having obtained just a 3-Dimensional form in that event.

The dimensions in themselves are Tier 1 by being size-based through seeing the lower ones as fictional/flat (like Dennis seeing the brane cosmology as just a trading card, or 3D beings seeing 2Ds as videogames or comics), but the being inhabiting them are not necessairly so given that the Trilliax Beta aliens died from crashing on our Earth.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Oh, well, if Bill's HDE doesn't change his size, then nvm on Lifting Strength.

 

[FinePoint]

Existence Erasure (Bill "liberated" his dimension which caused it to be burned out of existence. His dimension is confirmed to no longer exist)

Too indirect.

Curse Manipulation (He cursed a time period with nightmares for 100 years. Symbols of Bill are implied to be cursed)

Sure.

Nonduality type 1 (Everything Bill is, also isn't Bill)

Too vague/not enough evidence.

Multiple Selves type 1 (Bill's deceased species are heavily implied to loom over him. He can hear them screaming at him. They can communicate with him. It's heavily implied he sees them whenever he closes his eyes. He hears them through static)

Perhaps.

Photographic memory (He can remember before he was born)

Too vague.

Alternate Future Display (He can show someone how they are going to die)

Sure.

Deconstruction (If someone knows Bill's true name, they evaporate into dust)

Sure.

Toon Force (Bill can Speak despite lacking a mouth. Bill can manifest himself as a piñata and statue in the real world)

Sure.

Illusion Creation (He created a projection from his eye)

Sure.

Immorality Type 2 (He can shrug off his body being split apart. He can also live as a severed eye and limbs)

Sure.

Adhesive Manipulation (He glued 2 customers together)

Sure.

Resistance to Morality Manipulation (He has no regard for morality)

Too vague.

Weirdmageddon key:
lifting strength should be up to Immeasurable with potentially Higher Dimensional Existence (He can ascend to higher dimensions)

But he does not.

New weaknesses: He has phobias of 3D Glasses, Venetian blinds, TV Static. His biggest fear is himself.

Sure.