Poseidon (Riordan) vs Kyogre (Pokemon)

[Flashlight237]

Both of these guys scale to the same common feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/References_for_Common_Feats#Flooding_the_Entire_Earth

Question is who would be the better sea god: Poseidon or Kyogre?

Speed will be equalized. Both Kyogre and Poseidon are High 6-A, which obviously means the Blue Orb will be restricted (as it would lead to a key shift right off the bat). The battle takes place in the Mediterranean Sea.

Before you bring up incorporeality, Pokemon moves hit Ghost Types (including Gastly, a literal gas ball) all the time, and Kyogre's skillset doesn't really make use of the Normal type save for Hyper Beam.

Here are their profiles:

Poseidon's Profile
Kyogre's Profile

Who takes this?

Poseidon: 0
Kyogre: 0
Inconclusive: 0

 

[Ebihara]

doesn't look like Poseidon has any resistance to like anything, but gods seem to have crazy hacks and I am pretty sure that Poseidon can just turn into a giant ball of light and make kyogre just die.

 

[Bobsican]

doesn't look like Poseidon has any resistance to like anything, but gods seem to have crazy hacks and I am pretty sure that Poseidon can just turn into a giant ball of light and make kyogre just die.

Given Speed is equalized this isn't inherently effective given Kyogre can use Scary Face (Speed stat reduction) to have the upper hand at dodging, and can then eventually finish off with Sheer Cold (Absolute Zero).

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Tf is Kyogre supposed to do against Type 8 Immortality based on the Sea. Destroy the Sea? Would Kyogre even do that in character?
Does Absolute Zero even work against Poseidon given Low-High Regen?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, AZ immobilizes to begin with by nature, so it kinda doubles as incap unless it has shown to revert that kind of effect.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Hmmm
Multilocation could work against AZ so that Poseidon can eventually show his true form but I'm not sure if Poseidon would start with all the power of his true form or not
Poseidon can also use the Mist to cause Kyogre to miss, but I'm not sure what Kyogre's form of Enhanced Senses are

 

[Flashlight237]

Tf is Kyogre supposed to do against Type 8 Immortality based on the Sea. Destroy the Sea? Would Kyogre even do that in character?

I mean Kyogre fought against the thing that can and will do that in-character (Groudon).

 

[Bobsican]

I presume that comes from the IQ Skill Sure-Hit Attacker, which doesn't elaborate much on how it works lore-wise, although it should work here given it specifically bypasses Smokescreen.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

none of those are Poseidons opening move, he is more likely to directly attack with water and weather manipulation.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Kyogre isn't gonna open with either Scary Face or Sheer Cold either, it's gonna open with Origin Pulse or Water Spout or some other Water Move

 

[Flashlight237]

Kyogre isn't gonna open with either Scary Face or Sheer Cold either, it's gonna open with Origin Pulse or Water Spout or some other Water Move

Ehh... With how the games' AI works, practically anything could be it's opening move, even Rest of all things.

 

[Nonynho]

Ehh... With how the games' AI works, practically anything could be it's opening move, even Rest of all things.

Which moves does he know here?
Every one on gen 9's bulbapedia table or some other more specific thing?

 

[Flashlight237]

Which moves does he know here?
Every one on gen 9's bulbapedia table or some other more specific thing?

Pokemon typically use like four moves. Personally I would imagine... Pick any Smogon-recommended moveset from Gen VI onward but replace Ice Beam with Sheer Cold.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

I think they can still use every move they learn by levelup here, which means that every move mentioned her(Yes, Kyogre learns Scary Face and Sheer Cold by levelup. It also learns Calm Mind by levelup) is fair game

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

shouldnt it have the moves we see it use in the latest pokemon game in the wild?

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

In that case... the Kyogre found in SV has Muddy Water, Ice Beam, Sheer Cold and Aqua Ring. Note that Sheer Cold is on there. However, VSBW treats all Pokemon as level 100, in which case, its move would be Aqua Ring, Hydro Pump, Double-Edge and Water Spout, and I don't think Kyogre can win this without Sheer Cold.

 

[Nonynho]

Basing ourselves in Sheer Cold (won't take into consideration the particular theory of leveling up move changing cuz in gen 9 Pokémon have opinions on which moves they learn and which they want to change), thing is

Is the opponent ice type?
R: no
Is the opponent on a higher level?
R:???????

By the rules of the move we determinate first those and then we can start talking about the 30% hit rate being a problem for Kyogre

But first: what is Kyogre level (if 100, why? Where's the note saying such)? And what is Poseidon's level?

Also, why is Kyogre relying on a 30% accuracy non-stab move and not idk Thunder, that is also not stab but at least has 70% iirc? Maybe Ice Beam since he can count on Aqua Ring to heal and is known as a particularly bulky Pokémon?

 

[Bobsican]

As noted in the verse page:

• All of our Pokémon species profiles assume the Pokémon is wild, Level 100 with perfect IVs, and know every possible move and skill without being trained. However, they can only have one of their abilities at a time.

So level stuff isn't really a factor here, also Thunder normally doesn't miss while under rain (which Kyogre passively sets out of its Drizzle ability).

 

[Chariot190]

Kyogre isn't gonna open with either Scary Face or Sheer Cold either, it's gonna open with Origin Pulse or Water Spout or some other Water Move

Doesn't it open with Sheer Cold in the Mega OVA actually?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Doesn't it open with Sheer Cold in the Mega OVA actually?

Pretty sure it did.

 

[Nonynho]

As noted in the verse page:



So level stuff isn't really a factor here, also Thunder normally doesn't miss while under rain (which Kyogre passively sets out of its Drizzle ability).

Great to know, ty

Think he'd 100% Thunder, then

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Poseidon also controls the weather and Percy is resistant to lightning so he should be more resistant as well

 

[Quajutsu5]

As noted in the verse page:



So level stuff isn't really a factor here, also Thunder normally doesn't miss while under rain (which Kyogre passively sets out of its Drizzle ability).

• All of our Pokémon species profiles assume the Pokémon is wild, Level 100 with perfect IVs, and know every possible move and skill without being trained. However, they can only have one of their abilities at a time.

This means that only level up moves are considered. So no TM/HM/TP moves. Thus Thunder is not allowed for Kyogre.

 

[Imaginym]

cuz in gen 9 Pokémon have opinions on which moves they learn and which they want to change

They do?? Basis, please?

By the rules of the move we determinate first those and then we can start talking about the 30% hit rate being a problem for Kyogre

But first: what is Kyogre level (if 100, why? Where's the note saying such)? And what is Poseidon's level?

Also, why is Kyogre relying on a 30% accuracy non-stab move and not idk Thunder, that is also not stab but at least has 70% iirc? Maybe Ice Beam since he can count on Aqua Ring to heal and is known as a particularly bulky Pokémon?

Also, even setting aside that Sheer Cold's 30% Accuracy is lilely game mechanics (& animations alone would suggest it has a wide range.), if we were to account for game mechanics with it, Sheer Cold, like all OHKO moves, becomes proportionally more accurate if the user has a greater level.

 

[Testarossa002]

Man...Poseidon turns the dude into a dolphin or leopard or literally anything
I'm in the process of reworking the page but this is the currently accepted physiology abilities for olympians

Abilities and Resistances For Greco-Roman Pantheon of Riordanverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

Poseidon either:

• Starts in his true form which has passive death hax
• Starts fragmented. Which means, using AZ on him is kinda pointless as another version of him exists somewhere else (see multilocation)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Man...Poseidon turns the dude into a dolphin or leopard or literally anything

Kyogre is already a whale

I'm in the process of reworking the page but this is the currently accepted physiology abilities for olympians

Abilities and Resistances For Greco-Roman Pantheon of Riordanverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

Poseidon either:

• Starts in his true form which has passive death hax

why? he has never appeared in his true form normally

• Starts fragmented. Which means, using AZ on him is kinda pointless as another version of him exists somewhere else (see multilocation)

why would he start fragmented? that would literally make it pointless for them to worry at all about kronos' revival cuz then it wouldnt be a threat to them.

 

[Testarossa002]

why? he has never appeared in his true form normally

You can't say this and then say this

why would he start fragmented?

True form is when all the fragmented parts come together as one. Which, tbf, they rarely appear that way due to the effects on those around them.
That means, they start out fragmented

that would literally make it pointless for them to worry at all about kronos' revival cuz then it wouldnt be a threat to them.

They were worried about Kronos because he was aiming for the seat of their power (Mt. Olympus/Empire state building)
Not because he could actually kill them permanently
Dionysius got one-shot by Typhon in New York and was simultaneously across the country playing Pac-Man in a bar

Kyogre is already a whale

Turns him into a bird
Or a tree
Or a dog
The possibilities are endless
There's also the minor issue of sea animals being under the control of Poseidon

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You can't say this and then say this

True form is when all the fragmented parts come together as one. Which, tbf, they rarely appear that way due to the effects on those around them.
That means, they start out fragmented

I see, but do they go supernova in character?

They were worried about Kronos because he was aiming for the seat of their power (Mt. Olympus/Empire state building)
Not because he could actually kill them permanently
Dionysius got one-shot by Typhon in New York and was simultaneously across the country playing Pac-Man in a bar

i think he could just regen which was why he wasnt worried (you would also think that the fragments are probably much weaker)

Turns him into a bird
Or a tree
Or a dog
The possibilities are endless
There's also the minor issue of sea animals being under the control of Poseidon

ion even know what pokemon are, they arent JUST animals
Deoxys is an alien, ghastly is a ghost and so on

 

[Lynieryz]

Kyogre can kill Poseidon with any attack that encompasses his entire body.

Pokemon: Space-Time Manipulation Justifications & Details

vsbattles.fandom.com

Since it is accepted that Pokemon are capable of destroying space with their regular attacks.

 

[Nonynho]

They do?? Basis please?

I've dropped this point but as this part makes sense, I'll tell ya:
In Pokémon S/V when learning a new move you can ask your Pokémon about the new move, and he can say either that he doesn't think it'd be a good idea to learn the move or which one he thinks changing would be OK, it's actually a cool feature IMO

 

[Imaginym]

I've dropped this point but as this part makes sense, I'll tell ya:
In Pokémon S/V when learning a new move you can ask your Pokémon about the new move, and he can say either that he doesn't think it'd be a good idea to learn the move or which one he thinks changing would be OK, it's actually a cool feature IMO

This is very intriguing. I hope there's documentation about it.
Assuming it's more than just Game Mechanics, it could be valuable insight into Pokemon intelligence.
Thank you very much!

 

[Nonynho]

This is very intriguing. I hope there's documentation about it.
Assuming it's more than just Game Mechanics, it could be valuable insight into Pokemon intelligence.
Thank you very much!

Well I can be interpreted as more than game mechanics since we know that Pokémon are very smart in other senses, so the fact that they're able to help deciding their kit doesn't seem unfeasible/unreasonable.
It would bring me a lot of joy to know that i helped this wiki's Pokémon with my little knowledge in the franchise and large love for it

 

[Arceus0x]

why are both sides spamming shit that isn't accepted on either character's profiles? Make a CRT ffs

 

[Testarossa002]

see, but do they go supernova in character?

Yah
Poseidon assumes his true form when he was about to fight against the old sea gods

ion even know what pokemon are, they arent JUST animals
Deoxys is an alien, ghastly is a ghost and so on

Unless they resist transmutation, they're getting negged
Olympians have incredible range when its about turning something to something else. 99% of the constellations in the verse were formed by the gods turning something unfortunate fellow into stars

Kyogre can kill Poseidon with any attack that encompasses his entire body.

Pokemon: Space-Time Manipulation Justifications & Details

vsbattles.fandom.com

Since it is accepted that Pokemon are capable of destroying space with their regular attacks.

Destroying space isn't inherently a hax ability
Also, multilocation makes that pointless

why are both sides spamming shit that isn't accepted on either character's profiles? Make a CRT ffs

??
Everything dropped for Poseidon is accepted

 

[Lynieryz]

Destroying space isn't inherently a hax ability

Click on the blog and read. On the wiki, destroying space is hax, unless you are suggesting space destruction on a universal scale and above.

multilocation makes that pointless

Yeah, no. This is literally useless against Kyogre for the simple fact that they are all on the planet, and Kyogre has range to hit the entire planet.

Range: Extended Melee Range due to size. Thousands of kilometers with certain moves of various types | Extended melee range due to size. Planetary with certain moves of various types

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Can Kyogre even fight Poseidon in his true form, if he can't even engage with that form he will be limited to fighting spawned avatars infinitely and loose by tiring out and IIRC without divine physiology the true form of gods will straight up presence stomp mortals

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

where were you guys when it came to defending percy jackson against garfiel

 

[Testarossa002]

On the wiki, destroying space is hax, unless you are suggesting space destruction on a universal scale and above.

Prove this rq

Yeah, no. This is literally useless against Kyogre for the simple fact that they are all on the planet, and Kyogre has range to hit the entire planet

1. Throwing planet wide attacks is an opening move for him?
2. Planetary range is for his 5-B key. So.....no

Poseidon waves his hands and turns him into a 19 headed dog just for laughs

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

where were you guys when it came to defending percy jackson against garfiel

I'm more of a shipper than a scaler for Percy Jackson lol, test, gravedigger and animefreaks are better people for that typa stuff so I don't engage as much on those

 

[Testarossa002]

Can Kyogre even fight Poseidon in his true form, if he can't even engage with that form he will be limited to fighting spawned avatars infinitely and loose by tiring out and IIRC without divine physiology the true form of gods will straight up presence stomp mortals

True form makes this a stomp
I'm starting with his other forms for the sake of a debate

where were you guys when it came to defending percy jackson against garfiel

Percy's mid (for now)