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Beyond-Dimensional Existence Revisions

Ultima_Reality

?????????
VS Battles
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Well, it's been a while.

Stuff
So, as some of you already know, 1-A's requirements have been tweaked and became notably stricter following the months-old Tiering System revisions.

Namely, it has been given more emphasis on how simply being stated to transcend the concepts of space-time and/or dimensions in a verse that does not have infinite higher dimensions is not enough to qualify for the tier any longer, and in such a case, there would need to be some good context showing that the character in question is also superior to all extensions of said concepts as well, normally by transcending the "basis" in which further levels of abstraction would be defined in the verse where they come from, for instance. Otherwise, they will be scaled to the number of dimensions their setting has, for instance:

  • If the multiverse in which a series takes place is described as 27-dimensional, and a character who trivializes it entirely is stated to be "beyond dimensions" without much elaboration, then they would be rated at 1-B
Hence, this means that you can have characters who are 100% Aspatiotemporal and don't necessarily qualify for anything near 1-A now, which naturally clashes with the current page for Beyond-Dimensional Existence portraying it as an ability strictly reserved for 1-A's and above, and then leads to my proposal of a new type for it:

Entities whose nature trivializes the very concepts of space and time in relation to a singular scope of existence, without necessarily standing beyond all further extensions thereof.

Regarding Type 1 BDE
From what I gather, Type 1 Beyond-Dimensional Existence is specifically directed at characters who are not superior to the concepts of space and time per se, but that simply lack or do not abide by them.

I am generally fine with the concept itself, but my issue mainly lies in how the description of it treats the ability as something that translates to power, which I personally disagree with: Lacking something Ôëá being superior to it.

And given how Attack Potency is primarily based on the size of a given area of space which a character is capable of affecting, being Aspatiotemporal in nature certainly wouldn't necessarily amount to having greater power, just a really weird nature that would probably make them difficult to properly affect, most likely. It is also worthy to note that this was the main basis for the downgrade of The Star Maker.

Furthermore, I recall some conversations with Sera around the same time this page was made, where she explained that Type 1 is supposed to represent "Mathematical 1-A's". This obviously doesn't fit with the current system, where everything from Low 1-C to 0 is still defined by mathematics, even if increasingly more abstract forms of it, and the fact that the description links to a Wikipedia page about scalar (dimensionless) quantities (i.e values given in 0-dimensional space) really hurts any credibility it may have.

Besides some obvious changes to its definition, I also propose that we make the current Type 1 for Beyond-Dimensional Existence into a Type 0, and replace it with the new type I proposed above. It is fairly elegant and gives off a sense of linear progression from merely lacking the concepts of space and time to being outright superior to them.
 
I agree with all of this, in fact, adimensionality sounds more like a mathematical/spatiotemporal form of non existent physiology
 
Overlord775 said:
If i may ask, what's even the point to have Beyond-Dimensional Existence as a listed ability ?
To give the scope of the immunities and stats of 1-A? It isn't that useful when the battles are determined by transcedence and hax but at least people know how their stats work.

Is like putting chocolate sauce on a chocolate ice cream, it won't taste better, but is more stuff for free.

Worst analogy ever lol
 
I do not know either way about this. It is best if you ask Sera, Azathoth, Assaltwaffle, and DontTalk to give input here.
 
Well, we had this conversation before (on Discord, if you remember, that is lol) and I obviously agreed then, so I agree now.
 
Well, if Sera considers this acceptable, it is probably fine. However, it would help with input from the other people that I mentioned.
 
Well, it helps to have the nature of such beings defined in a page, as it is an important part of our system.
 
Thank you to all staff members who are helping out.
 
Overlord775 said:
@Last

That seems rather pointless and unneeeded
Yeah, if it is arleady covered in the large type or outerverse page then it is unnecessary.

Especially since some are a little obvious (strenght, speed and size), higher dimensional manipulation is a case by case too
 
We do not have an Outerverse page anymore, so I much prefer if we explain the principles of this concept somewhere.
 
What if we change the contents of the page to explain a outerverse instead of removing it? Or create a note or 2 in the tiering system?
 
Overlord775 said:
If i may ask, what's even the point to have Beyond-Dimensional Existence as a listed ability ?
Same as a Higher Dimensional Existence or Superhuman Physical Characteristics. Also helps that not every 1-A character has BDE, they could just be 3-D with 1-A power.
 
Same as a Higher Dimensional Existence or Superhuman Physical Characteristics. Also helps that not every 1-A character has BDE, they could just be 3-D with 1-A power.

Yeah but are normally have "1-A with/via x" anyway
 
Honestly, i think the beyond dimensional page could have some work or atleast have a outerverse explanation.

While the stats are pretty IRRELEVANT, the nature of outerversals are very exotic and definitely deserve a page for them,
 
So what about types 2 and 3? I can figure that 2 will be reserved for 1-A characters, but type 3 is trickier.
 
I think i'm starting to debunk myself, so i'll end it here.

Type 1 needs to be removed, just sounds like nonexistent physiology.

Maybe we should add abstract existence to the uses since MANY 1-A are abstract beings and the page even calls them "meta-abstracts"

Something tells me that notes would be appreciated to explain the types.
 
KingPin0422 said:
So what about types 2 and 3? I can figure that 2 will be reserved for 1-A characters, but type 3 is trickier.
Type 3 will be for High 1-A and above.
 
Has somebody asked Azathoth, Assaltwaffle, and DontTalkDT to comment here yet?
 
I may not be of much help here since I have a personally liberal interpretation of 1-A.

However, if we want to accept that character that is above a dimensional structure, like the example 27-D, is not a 1-A (I'd disagree, but that's neither here nor there) then it would follow accordingly that the being also doesn't get BDE. BDE should be a power reserved for exclusively 1-As. If we acknowledge the character as having a state of BDE then it is a logical following that he/she is 1-A, as well as the inverse.
 
Well, this suggestion seems to have been accepted then.
 
@Assalt

Why do you say so, though? Especially since BDE and 1-A don't automatically intersect in the current Tiering System anymore, as the latter is moreso about existing beyond the reach of any stackings of higher dimensions/layers than just existing "beyond the concepts of space and time" per se. An aspatiotemporal nature is still an important part that walks hand-in-hand with this, of course, but which arises more as a consequence of their size than anything.
 
If you're beyond spatial structure, as is denoted by being "beyond the concepts of space and time", you're never going to be reached by any stacking of dimensions. Stacking dimensions on a layered system will never reach a beyond dimensional structure, no matter how complex.

If we take a layered dimensional structure was analogous to a multi-story building, the outside would be beyond-dimensional existence. If you jump out the window or exit the building at any floor, you've reached that existence. Doesn't matter if you exit at floor 3 or an infinite floor. Being qualitatively superior to dimensional structure, at any point is the same feat. It doesn't matter if one structure is infinite-D or one is 4-D. Once you're beyond dimensions, you're out. If dimensions is golf, you're no longer playing. You're off the course entirely and it doesn't pertain to you, so asking what your golf score is would be irrelevant.
 
The issue with assuming that transcending the concepts of space and time automatically makes stuff 1-A is that we'd end up with massively inflated ratings for several profiles. I mean, your average person would not be comfortable with assuming such a high tier with so little evidence.
 
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