Berserk AP revisions (God Tiers)

[ShivaShakti]

Ganishka doesn't really physically attack though. It can't punch or kick, it's just sorta there. AP isn't the most applicable thing to begin with, much less for scaling purposes.
Skull Knight easily beats Zodd every time and has opposed the God Hand for ages so he'd probably scale below them, but if anything that's just more in favor of shiva ganishka's large size not being a real AP feat.

"large size not being a real AP feat"

We have characters on the site that have AP or Dura via sheer size. And he doesn't really have to punch or kick, the size scaling is just based on KE produced by moving or running.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah and that's bad and a lot of them need to seriously be reassessed. Shiva Ganishka doesn't move and run, it doesn't punch or kick or whatever, it doesn't have a way to get those KE values. It doesn't even really do anything besides be massive and get obliterated by Skull Knight's redirected slash.

The fact that it existed for an extremely short amount of time makes using the general portrayal of the God Hand as the strongest things sketchy anyways. Firstly, they have lots of other powers and abilities that can be overall stronger than just being huge, and Shiva Ganishka existed for like no time before dying. A temporary shakeup in the ratings wouldn't make the god hand not overall strongest anymore, and there's no concrete feats or direct statements to scale them.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Yeah and that's bad and a lot of them need to seriously be reassessed. Shiva Ganishka doesn't move and run, it doesn't punch or kick or whatever, it doesn't have a way to get those KE values.

What do you mean? The chapters he was shown in literally has him moving towards the Band of the Hawk and stomping around.

And the Godhand scaling above Shiva and the rest of the cast was already accepted long ago, which is why they were 8-B in the first place.

 

[Politebunny7]

I support the upgrade

 

[Quibster]

Anyone going to calculate the Great Roar of the Astral World AoE?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I'm pretty sure there are storm feats on the same level as this

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I'm still in support of High 7-C Shiva and God Hand, but I don't support High 7-C Skull Knight fra

 

[Hellbeast1]

Yeah Skull Knight should stay as is (since it seems to be more hax he used)

 

[Antvasima]

@Wokistan

So what do you think that we should do here?

 

[ByAsura]

What do you mean? The chapters he was shown in literally has him moving towards the Band of the Hawk and stomping around.

Adding to this, his mere transformation into Shiva destroyed most of Wyndham, which is large enough to contain tens of thousands of people, and created an earthquake.

I have to disagree about the Great Roar of the Astral World. According to Femto, Skull Knight's attack ripped into the Spirit World. It's also confirmed here that Ganishka was turned into the source of this, rather than it being created directly by his power, or something.

The fact that it existed for an extremely short amount of time makes using the general portrayal of the God Hand as the strongest things sketchy anyways. Firstly, they have lots of other powers and abilities that can be overall stronger than just being huge, and Shiva Ganishka existed for like no time before dying. A temporary shakeup in the ratings wouldn't make the god hand not overall strongest anymore, and there's no concrete feats or direct statements to scale them.

Even according to descriptions during and after this event, Griffith is still unmatched in power. The description for Ganishka all but says he failed to surpass the God Hand.

 

[Antvasima]

@ByAsura

Do you also have any suggestions for what we should do here?

 

[ByAsura]

I suggest everything be left as it is currently, with the exception of the powers and abilities that are currently being argued for.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then.

 

[Quibster]

What about Limited Fate Manipulation via Idea of Evil?

It Griffith had it before, and it's even mentioned in his Profile Note.

 

[ByAsura]

What exactly is it based on?

 

[Quibster]

The fact that Griffith was destined to become a God Hand member, and even the God Hand states it too. Also the countless times that he's avoided death "because destiny".

 

[ByAsura]

That doesn't seem like Griffith is manipulating fate, more somebody else is pulling the strings for him.

 

[Quibster]

If you don't support the Fate Manipulation, I suggest you remove it from his profile note to avoid confusion.

 

[ByAsura]

It's not even on the profile.

Edit: Oh, the causality manipulation.

 

[Quibster]

If that's the case, then Griffith has a TOTU Fate Manip.

 

[Antvasima]

"TOTU"?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

doesn't griffith already have fate shit

like, a swarm of arrows that couldn't miss somehow missed him or some shit like that

 

[Quibster]

Truth of the Universe (Earthbound).

It's where Ness gets his Fate Manipulation from― he was destined and fated to save the world through TOTU, as Griffith was destined and fated to become Femto and conquer lands through the Idea of Evil.

Also, Griffith has miraculously had a storm of arrows miss him because of his Destiny to conquer.

The events of the first Eclipse wad also a feat of Fate Manipulation through IoE— it's not just a coincidence that Griffith was in a specific spot where an event occurs every 216 years under an eclipse.

Even the Apostles knew where the Eclipse would take place, while Griffith and the rest of the gang had no clue- this is also not a coincidence that he just stumbled upon the location. This is a matter of Fate.

 

[Quibster]

Here are the feats and scan evidence for Griffith's Passive Fate Manipulation via Idea of Evil

When Void refers to "God" he's referring to the Idea of Evil, which is evident because the IoE gave Void and the rest of the God Hand their powers. IoE being identified as "God", according to Void, is confirmed by Griffith in Chapter 083. I can provide a scan if you wish.


Griffith miraculously survives a volley of arrows


Griffith is referred to as "The One Chosen by the Great Hand of God(Idea of Evil)" Void also states "Thou art the Chosen One"


IoE calls Griffith "Chosen One"

 

[Quibster]

One could argue that the Apostles appeared due to when the Crimson Behelit activated...

...However, this is not true.

The Apostles appeared behind Griffith Before Griffith's Behelit activated. They appeared as soon as the Eclipse did- which, the Eclipse was also fated to happen due to the 216 yearly cycle.

Here's the scan. You can see for yourself in Berserk Chapter 073, the Golden Age Arc.

 

[Quibster]

Here's where the Passive Fate Manipulation via Idea of Evil hits home. Chapter 083, Golden Age Arc.


IoE: "I weave every man's Destiny" Griffith: "...Does this mean that you're the one who controls my Destiny?... Who arranged everything so that it would be this way?


IoE: "I control Destiny"

 

[Quibster]

Next page, IoE explains how Griffith's destiny came to be, and how the Idea of Evil is part of Griffith.

Edit: Sorry for the photo spam, and spam in general. I am very serious and passionate about this verse.


IoE's explanation of how he controls History, and Destiny.


IoE: "I dwell deep in your heart, I am a part of you."

 

[Antvasima]

Well, for Griffith it seems more like a specific passive ability due to The Idea of Evil, rather than actively being able to control the fates of others.

Ness likely shouldn't have active fate manipulation either by the same rationale.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Ness has passive fatehax that protects him from dying and defeat since Truth is always watching his back and making events to ensure his journey becomes the best one possible

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Quibster]

Have we reached a decision on the "Passive Fate Manipulation via Idea of Evil" matter?

Who supports it, and if there is enough support― who can apply the ability to his profile?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems rather unreliable to me.

 

[ByAsura]

I found a sca that actually substantiates passive Fate Manipulation without the Idea of Evil, as well as Empathic Manipulation. Essentially, a witch describes him as having an enormous flow of od (look it up) that charms people, and supernatural fortune.

I think he should also have Type 5 Immortality. According to Skull Knight, Femto exists beyond mortal reasoning and trying to harm him would be like a character attempting to harm the author of their story. It's also confirmed in Chapter 202 that he's a "transcendental entity beyond physical reasoning."

 

[Antvasima]

1) That sounds more like advanced Social Influencing and Causality Manipulation.

2) That seems fine.

 

[Quibster]

maybe Supernatural Luck?

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry. That is better, yes.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I've advocated for those abilities before and they're definitely causality manipulation rather than luck. Causality Manipulation and Fate Manipulation are pretty much interchangeable in Berserk honestly.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Also The Godhands manipulation of the Abyss? Reality Warping?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind what I said earlier then.

 

[Quibster]

The issue is, is that some people who don't know anything about Griffith― or the Berserk franchise in general, and will just shrug it off the Causality manipulation and compare it to other irrelevant franchises, when it obviously works different by a large margin in the Berserk verse.

As I said before, the word "Fate Manipulation" is even slapped on Griffith's profile note― which another supporter defined as Causality Manipulation, which makes it all the more confusing. Even a person who knows nothing about the verse would raise some eyebrows.

Does he have it, does he not have it, or is there too much controversy around giving a character Fate Manipulation on this forum?