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Ben 10 verse vs DBH verse

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Except those dimensions aren't spatial dimensions, they are litteraly just realms and pocket dimensions within the universe, not even seperated by space time.
 
Dragomer said:
Except those dimensions aren't spatial dimensions, they are litteraly just realms and pocket dimensions within the universe, not even seperated by space time.
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Exept it dosn't matter still Ben 10 verse is 26*ad-infinitum and DBH verse is 12*ad-infinitum
 
Badrimoine2019 said:
Dragomer said:
Except those dimensions aren't spatial dimensions, they are litteraly just realms and pocket dimensions within the universe, not even seperated by space time.
Click to expand...
Exept it dosn't matter still Ben 10 verse is 26*ad-infinitum and DBH verse is 12*ad-infinitum
Click to expand...
No, it matters a lot, Ben 10 verse is 1 ad infinitum and DBH is 12 to 18 ad infinitum, having a bunch of random realm inside a universe isn't the same as having multiple universes per infinitum.

I mean it's pretty obvious at this point you're just trying to reach really hard to give Alien X a win over DBH due to the multiple Alien X vs DBH thread that were closed because Alien X was getting stomped.
 
Remy the wolf said:
welp ben 10 vs dragon ball , always results in ben 10 winning or his verse winning , so ben 10 verse FTW
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On this wiki, it litteraly result in the thread being closed because DBH stomp TBH.
 
Exept it dosn't matter still Ben 10 verse is 26*ad-infinitum and DBH verse is 12*ad-infinitum
No, it matters a lot, Ben 10 verse is 1 ad infinitum and DBH is 12 to 18 ad infinitum, having a bunch of random realm inside a universe isn't the same as having multiple universes per infinitum.

I mean it's pretty obvious at this point you're just trying to reach really hard to give Alien X a win over DBH due to the multiple Alien X vs DBH thread that were closed because Alien X was getting stomped.

yeah no the Ben 10 verse is 26*ad-infinitum while DBH is 12 or 18*ad-infinitum again having a random realm inside a universe dosn't matter and again the Ben 10 verse contains 26 dimensions, every dimension contains time lines, every time line contains hundreds of universes and the time lines are infinitely branching in every dimension so no its 100% obvious that ben 10 verse is 26 *ad-infinitum
 
No, it isn't, dimensions are different from universes, DB itself has multiple dimensions per universe and has dimensions that contain universe sized stuff, that doesn't add anything to an ad infinitum setting

So it's not even ad infinitum and is only divided between 26 dimensions ? seems like DBH slap even harder if you try to twist that whole dimensions thing that far.

No, to me it's 100% obvious Ben 10 is baseline and DBH slaps, as it has always been accepted on this wiki, which has no reason to change as you have provided nothing new.
 
Badrimoine2019 said:
And I don't think that dimensions need to be separated space-time for the Ben 10 verse to be 26+ad-infinitum
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It absolutly does, if they have the same space time, then they are just one low 2-C structure when put together, that only give 1 ad infinitum at best if it is the structure that get duplicated or whatever ad infinitum.
 
It absolutly does, if they have the same space time, then they are just one low 2-C structure when put together, that only give 1 ad infinitum at best if it is the structure that get duplicated or whatever ad infinitum.

so it need to be a 2-C structure than?
 
Badrimoine2019 said:
It absolutly does, if they have the same space time, then they are just one low 2-C structure when put together, that only give 1 ad infinitum at best if it is the structure that get duplicated or whatever ad infinitum.
Click to expand...
so it need to be a 2-C structure than?
Yes, to have more than 1 infinitum thing, you need multiple low 2-C structure per 'duplicate' or 'branching' so multiple spaces times, like each timeline (so branchine / duplicate) in DBH is made of 12 to 18 independent space-times (low 2-C structures).

At least that's how i understood it, should ask one of the tiering experts maybe.
 
It absolutly does, if they have the same space time, then they are just one low 2-C structure when put together, that only give 1 ad infinitum at best if it is the structure that get duplicated or whatever ad infinitum.so it need to be a 2-C structure than?
Yes, to have more than 1 infinitum thing, you need multiple low 2-C structure per 'duplicate' or 'branching' so multiple spaces times, like each timeline (so branchine / duplicate) in DBH is made of 12 to 18 independent space-times (low 2-C structures).

At least that's how i understood it, should ask one of the tiering experts maybe.

OK I see so I think this thread should be closed than, or should I ask a tiering expert?
 
ugh I can never tell whether you're talking about spacial dimentions or not. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've switched a couple times mid debate! both of you. this is why we need consistant terminology. Since universe is currently already being used consistently, "dimentions" in regards to things like the null void should probably be refered to as "realms" or something like that if we're saying that they're contained in the same universe. Anyway, each universe has timelines branching off ad infinitum, but we still can't say for certain that there are infinite universes
 
This literally doesn't even matter. Even if Ben 10 is 26*Ad Infinium, Dragon Ball easily smacks the moment anybody uses any sort of power up since BASE FORM Xeno Goku scales to the 12-18*Ad Infinium.

Kaiokenx10 alone makes 120-180*Ad Infinium.

Super Saiyan makes it 480-720*Ad Infinium.

So either way, Dragon Ball curbstomps.
 
What the frick is even going on here. I think the main point is that if the multiverse dies of Heat Death in DB in a few trillion years and the timelines stop branching since every possibility is exhausted, Ben 10 will still be going strong since it has a statement of an infinite timestream so eventually after a few quadrillion years Ben 10 could overtake DB, although I'm not too sure on how legit this is.
 
based on everything I've heard I've been fairly convinced that DBH wins from a while ago. I'm just trying to make sure that the ben 10 verse is described fairly and accurately. however, this thread really is going nowhere now
 
Greenshifter said:
What the frick is even going on here. I think the main point is that if the multiverse dies of Heat Death in DB in a few trillion years and the timelines stop branching since every possibility is exhausted, Ben 10 will still be going strong since it has a statement of an infinite timestream so eventually after a few quadrillion years Ben 10 could overtake DB, although I'm not too sure on how legit this is.
Click to expand...
wait so time lines in DBH aren't branching anymore? I don't get it
 
I'm not sure but either every verse with ad-Infinitum has an infinite time stream and Maltruant's statement is redundant, meaning if some verses meet Ultima's requirements for potential infinity they could become Low 1-C if I understood it correctly or Ben 10 is one of the only with an infinite time stream and my explanation from above is applicable.
 
Heat Death isn't even a thing in DB and every possibility would include the possibility that stuff continue after the heat death or that the heat death is avoided ETC, your argument simply doesn't work.

No, Ben 10 isn't one of the only 'infinite time stream', treating time as a thing that just goes on forever is what 99,99999999999999999999% of verse in fiction do.

Branching out into infinity is branching out into infinity, it doesn't just stop branching for no reason.
 
Greenshifter said:
What the frick is even going on here. I think the main point is that if the multiverse dies of Heat Death in DB in a few trillion years and the timelines stop branching since every possibility is exhausted, Ben 10 will still be going strong since it has a statement of an infinite timestream so eventually after a few quadrillion years Ben 10 could overtake DB, although I'm not too sure on how legit this is.
Click to expand...
Heat Death is never mentioned in DB as anything that affects the number of possibilities, this is pure headcanon. And while we're at it, why are we assuming Ben 10 doesn't go through the same thing? Time doesn't stop at Heat Death so even if the infinfite timestream stuff is true, it's still just as likely that BE\en 10's multiverse would stop expanding too.
 
The time patroller says that there can be infinite different paths history can go through, not that there infinite different paths or eventually will be infinite. Just that you can change history in infinite different ways. That statement does not say anything about how timelines there are or will be.

And I would like to see the scan of Trunks saying there are an ad infinitum different worlds in the Dragon Ball manga.

Holliday from Generator Rex has stated there are infinite dimensions, which doesnt contradict Paradox saying there are an ad infinitum amount of timelines, because dimensions and timelines are not the same thing in Ben 10. And no dimensions do not refer to spatial dimensions, there are 26 spatial dimensions, not infinite. Generator Rex' dimension is obviously not 1 spatial dimension, neither is Diagon's. This also explains why Diagon has never met more than 1 Ben Tennyson, and why Generator Rex doesnt have a Ben Tennyson in his world, because his world is not an alternative Ben Tennyson timeline.

Paradox himself even makes a clear distinction between timeline and dimension when talking about the cosmos to No Watch Ben.
 
Also there already is a thread about 2-A Ben 10's , so what even was the point of making this thread? But since we are here, is there any proof that all timelines exist simultaneously in DBH/ DBX?

Because they do in Ben 10, Paradox was capable of travelling to a timeline 200 years into the future before the events that led to that timeline coming into existance even happened. An alternative adult Gwen send main timeline Gwen and Ben to her alternative timeline, even though that timeline shouldnt exist at that point. .

Paradox knew about the timeline main Gwen would create when she went back in time to prevent Kevin from mutating, implying it already existed and Paradox already went there. Paradox is not phychic or omniscient, he wouldnt know about anything in the timeline without actually going there, yet he did before Gwen had even created it.

@Dragomer infinite timestreams refers to all the timelines, not time itself. And of course, Holliday from Generator Rex has stated there are infinite dimensions, dimensions meaning something entirely different from timelines.
 
We already had like 10 threads where people tried to bring that up to downgrade DBH, it worked none of those times, it won't suddenly work now, that's as overdone as the 'not low 2-C' threads.

My ******* god, with your 'd-d-d-da timeline i-i-i-in da future !!!!' as if even back to the future couldn't just to future timelines, we litteraly see Zamasu go 1000 years into the future with Gowasu, you're trying so ******* hard to pass the most basic shit as something special it's really annoying at this point.

Holiday at the start of that crossover didn't even know there were other universes or dimensions, she litteraly theorise that from out of her ass at the last minute.
 
>We already had like 10 threads where people tried to bring that up to downgrade DBH, it worked none of those times, it won't suddenly work now, that's as overdone as the 'not low 2-C' threads.

What exactly are you referncing here? Is it about what the Time Patroller said? How does the time patroller saying that history can be changed infinite diffenret ways mean that history will eventually be changed infinite differnet ways??

>My ******* god, with your 'd-d-d-da timeline i-i-i-in da future !!!!' as if even back to the future couldn't just to future timelines,

Nice strawman, going into the future in another timeline and going into a timeline that will only exist in the future if certain events happen first are not the same thing. it's really ******* annoying how you misrepresent my words and argue against something I never said.

.Why would Paradox know about the timeline Gwen created before Gwen created it, if the timeline didnt already exist?
 
This is not how timeline work and timeline creation works, at all, a timeline that has been created at any point in time is accessible from any point in time by any time traveler or dimension traveler, especialy for someone like Paradox who's in a very specific state in relation to time, stop trying to pass basic shit as something special it's annoying.
 
OK, so all timelines that will eventually come into existance already exist? Exactly like I just said multiple times? So how exactly does this refute anything I have said? You are only proving my point
 
I'm saying it apply to almost every single 2-B verse out there, DBH has the same shit and most 2-B verse i know do, that's like the default.
 
So why is Tangram from Toaru listed as 2-A, despite,the evidence from the lightnovel proving she is 2-A comes from the fact that she controls and is the gatekeeper of infinitely expanding/branching worlds?

Chronos from Chrono Clock is also listed as 2-A because of statements like :" "Time expands infinitely in every direction and every moment in time exists simultaneously" and "if it really is possible to go back in time and change events of the future then the space-time continuum must be like an infinitely long branch"

And you still havent explained why it being possible to change history in DBH in infinite ways means that there will eventually be infinite timelines. Unless it's stated that time travel will happen infinite times. And when did Trunks say there are an ad-infinitum amount of timelines? No scan or chapter was mentioned when he says that in this blog .

Futhermore, since Ben talked and convinced Holiday about parelel dimensions, and Ben knows about paralel dimensions from Paradox, Ben was most likely the person who told her how many dimensions exist.
 
I honestly have no idea, infinitely expended is 100% 2-B, you should ask an expert for that verse.

As i said, we had tons of DBH threads about that, just check them out.
 
Doorinmyhouse said:
Do you happen to know an expert on this or a DBH thread where infinitely branching being = 2-B was discussed?
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An expert on Toaru ? nope, i don't know any, checking the knowledgeable section for it might help.

for DBH ? well there where multiple thread but asking SSJRyu or Zenkaibattery would be better since they were the ones who concluded those threads anyway.
 
From what I can read in this thread, Demigra saying there are a myriad( meaning at least 10000 at most indefinitely large or innumerable) amount of worlds is used to justify DBH being 2-B. No statement about "ad infinitum" is ever mentioned. Trunks says there are many worlds created from the smallest things changing, not anything about "ad infinitum" worlds . And as The Real Col Howard said "

"There'd be a timeline if Raditz woke up and walked on his left foot, or one where he did it on his right. Yet, unless Raditz went back in time to do the other, only one of them exists for now."

Or as Matthew said

" However, new timelines are made through time travel in Dragon Ball, and not in a quantum-mechanics sort of thing where every possible decision is simultaneously made in different universes. "

Or as Azatoth said :

"He doesn't. He says history can take infinite paths, which again, applies to virtually any space-time continuum. It doesn't mean all of them exist simultaneously, or even that all of them exist at all, depending on how a franchise presents its multiverse. "

That is the reason why DBH being 2-A was rejected, because all those possible timelines dont exist simultaneously, exactly like i said before. They only exist AFTER someone travels back in time, unlike in Ben 10 where it's not only shown multiple times that possible timeilnes exist simultaneously as other timelines, but Paradox even states that Ben 10 works via quantum Mechanics, and according to it all possible universes exist simultaneously.

So no this is not" how timeline work and timeline creation works," nor does it apply to DBH. You are flat out lying at this point.

All possible timelines existing simultaneously as present and past timelines is absolutely not the "most basic shit", that's complete horse shit..
 
Tl;dr

DBH being 2-A was rejected for the exact reasons I mentioned before, as seen in this thread because there is no evidence that all possible timelines exist simultaneously and because there is no evidence that there eventually will be infinite universes.

However, in Ben 10 we are shown on multiple occasions that future possible timelines exist simultaneously as present and past timelines + Maltruant has described all timelines as infinite + Paradox has said that there are an " ad infinitum " amount of timelines.
 
If there's an ad infinitum amount of timelines, that means that it increases infinitely and NOT that there's an infinite amount RIGHT NOW. So no, still 2-B and still a lesser degree of 2-B to DBH.

Nothing you have stated implies 2-A yet, Doorinmyhouse.
 
I mean if we take the amount of timelines that are destroyed right now in Ben 10 then that's 2-C and don't go all then you should revise Ben 10, I'm in the middle of a revision already.
 
I agree with The Calaca. This thread no longer serves any purpose when there is already another thread discussing this.
 
@Akreius all possible timelines exist simultaneously as all other timelines, otherwise Paradox would not had known about the timelines Gwen created, or the timeline he creates 200 years into the future. Yes, every single timeline exist simultaneously, as I have already proved. Which also explains why Maltruant said the timestream is infinite.

Heck, Paradox wasnt even saying that there will be an ad infintum amount of universes, they were talking about how many differnt paralel worlds there currently exist, and after talking about a few of them, future Ben said " et cetera" with Paradox follwing with" ad infinitum".

How exactly does this in anyway imply that there eventually will exist infinite timelines, when the conversation was clearly about how many paralel world there currently exists, and not in any shape or form how many there eventually will be?? They dont ever talk about possible timelines in that episode, so why do we randomily assume that "ad infinitum" refers to something that will eventually happen?
 
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