• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Ben 10 - Tier 2-A Cosmology proposal (Accepted)

Status
Not open for further replies.
9,982
10,821
In this CRT, I'll be focusing on why Ben 10 cosmology which has been accepted as possibly 2-A, is a legit 2-A.

NOTE:
Please read the explanation and try to understand what I mean from it before reaching a conclusion.

There are ad Infinitum versions of the history "we know." I used to think that this statement is actually talking about continuous branching that will keep on happening forever, but after re-watching the show and understanding the context behind it, I came to realize that it's not actually talking about continued branching but rather the number of branchings that have already have happened. In fact, this is what paradox said "parallel versions of the history we know" and here "we" is included for ben, Gwen, Kevin as well and even all the examples of parallel versions that has been given by Paradox were the versions of history that "we" ourselves as well know and when Paradox was mentioning numbers of timelines to the trio ben 10000 ended it with saying etc which further proceeded by paradox saying "ad Infinitum" means the counting of "numbers of specified timelines" (parallel versions of the history we know) has no end, we can keep on counting it, an infinite series. If the explanation seems hard then it'll be simple when you just forget about the "branching" thing as it wasn't even established at that time, just think that number of parallel versions of the history that we know are "ad Infinitum" means you can just keep counting but it'll never end. It's referring to "counting" as per context, not to "branching off phenomenon" (as per my explanation, it is enough to prove that it is of aleph naught or infinite size). Source:-
Doctor Holiday said there are infinite dimensions (Just to add credit about cosmology size). Source:-
Maltruant said the timestream is infinite (all the timelines and alternate realities combined are called timestream as all the timelines like Legerdomain and null void are in the same timestream to divide all together, not separate ways); contextually, it was about the number of timelines rather than single timeline.
WOG statement confirming that number of universes is infinite (end game). Source:-

Bold tags are of staff members

Agree:
@Lord_Farquaad69420 @JaxWolf4 @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Lovemovies14 @Greatsage13th @Aachintya31 @FictUnderstand @Remus1998 @Quantu @DarlingAurora @Wagy @Robo @RoTt35 @Undylan @Bobsican @Forthegood @Firestorm808 @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @ElixirBlue

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
Last edited:
Agree for sure. Although I think Low 1-C to 1-C is likely since Celestialsapiens are higher dimensional and scale above beings that actually are.
 
I don't know the verse too well, but looking at the context provided I can't support a 2-A cosmology yet. "Ad-infinitum" referring to universes that already exist is not the point of contention, but rather the words used. "Ad-infinitum" defines something that is endless, which can be achieved by a number that trails on without end (same definition as countless - think about the largest number you can and continue to increase it. You will never reach an end but you will also never reach infinity).

Generator Rex is unrelated to Ben 10 afaik

We don't accept WoG statements like that - a low effort tweet answering a direct question does not meet our standards of proof.

"Infinite timestream" is vague to me. This could mean infinite timelines, it could mean infinite time (as in the time of one universe going on forever) or it could mean very little at all. You allude to there being more insight as to what 'timestream' means in this context, so I would like you to expand on that please.
 
We don't accept WoG statements like that - a low effort tweet answering a direct question does not meet our standards of proof.
Can you explain this? Because a older CRT accepted Bens universe being infinite in size via evidence from canon and WOG.

And the question was direct as this one so I'm confused?
 
As a two sided canon? (i.e. is Ben 10 canon to Generator Rex, and Generator Rex canon to Ben 10? Or is it one-sided?)
Two sided, it is accepted as canon to both ben 10 and generator Rex in here as confirmed by Duncan.

"Infinite timestream" is vague to me. This could mean infinite timelines, it could mean infinite time (as in the time of one universe going on forever) or it could mean very little at all. You allude to there being more insight as to what 'timestream' means in this context, so I would like you to expand on that please.
Sure, Even in this episode that clip was part of, is only dealing with alternate timelines (3 timelines in total what has been shown but rook was looking for ben in all of alternate dimensions but each of them aren't shown) and even While making this statement maltruant was still in the alternate timeline, so infinite timelines should be the case contextually. Infact he started a crosstime war and was about to change the entirety of an“timestream”or“crosstime” from the beginning. Maltruant also had a chronosapien timebomb capable of distroying all of timelines showing how much he is involved or influence the “timestream”.

This entire episode was just about alternate dimensions till the very end, also maltruant uses alternate dimensions word casually in his statements even if it's not needed and maltruant even proceeded to say "non of this matters when he restart the time war", obviously referring to “all timelines”or “timestream” once again.

I updated this in the OP for context,
Is this context convincing?

same definition as countless - think about the largest number you can and continue to increase it. You will never reach an end but you will also never reach infinity
I can provide a explaination to justify why in this particular case “adinfinitum” directly stands for “infinite”to be specific along the lines given in the OP, so please take a look if it is convincing.

“end” of infinity is itself self contradictory, reaching the infinity shouldn't be an argument as even if infinity exist even then one can never reach it it's not a particular point or number but a idea of never ending series that all exist at the same time, all those“adinfinitum” universes already exist at the same time, if “X” and “X+1” already exist for all values of “X” that belong to natural number, “X+1” is not something that will branch off and come later point in time but rather exist already given that all the values within the natural numbers exist already, there is no expansion taking place which reasons adinfinitum here as something smaller than infinite per context but something that already exist which reasons it's being infinite in size, that is size of the “aleph naught”, given that the “counting” was the context rather than “size” which can only be “adinfinitum” , as counting can never be infinite in any given case even if done for something that is “infinite”. It's not about the number that trails on as there is no proof that the later number will be existing at the same time as previous one, it is about all of them already existing even if one is not counting them. This article explains over what I mean by counting, the only difference is that all of them exist together regardless of counting.

Cosmology is aleph naught size or set of all natural numbers (smallest infinity) with elements in it being nothing but just a representation of all the universes.

Professor paradox used the word adinfinitum because it was about counting but as per context it's directly implying towards infinite universes.
We don't accept WoG statements like that - a low effort tweet answering a direct question does not meet our standards of proof
Yes but If a wog statement goes hand in hand with what has been shown in the series or expands or support on that idea rather than being entirely new thing stated out of nowhere, then it can be used to credit the argument, infact in previous crt's they have been used in this way and got accepted.
 
Last edited:
This thread was arguing for infinite timelines in the future and by future I mean not by 1000 years or millions but by infinite years in the future that itself makes it contradicted because one can never rever be at infinite point in time to get 2a cosmology and so at any point of time it'll always be 2b. This is the case of number that trails on but all of them aren't existing at the same time and so counting dependent.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/ben-1...-to-sleep-mind-and-soulhax.66722/post-2191192
 
Last edited:
professor x just said that there are 100's of worlds and then he says ad infinitum??
Yes,“100s”, “millions” is a lose terms used in fiction alot, even in crises of infinite earth's of dc comics, they said it many times that there are “millions of timelines” and later proceeded to say infinite. It is not that necessary to the argument.
 
Yes,“100s”, “millions” is a lose terms used in fiction alot, even in crises of infinite earth's of dc comics, they said it many times that there are “millions of timelines” and later proceeded to say infinite. It is not that necessary to the argument.
Ahhh makes sense
 
Clarification of the OP:

Going back to our previous thread, there are two aspects of the overall timestream: Length (Growth of Branches) and Depth (Number of Space-Time Layers).

AU5cf0K.png
In the comic, Ben states that there are millions of space-time dimensions that are like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void.

Holiday would say that there are theoretically infinite space-time dimensions that are like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void.

With Paradox and Ben 10K, they are discussing the branches and how they keep going ad infinitum (Latin, literally ‘to infinity'). Maltruant goes on to say that the overall timestream is infinite. With infinite length, the growth of branches is infinite as well. These two support the 'infinite' tweet since the universes refer to the branches.
 
With Paradox and Ben 10K, they are discussing the branches and how they keep going ad infinitum (Latin, literally ‘to infinity'). Maltruant goes on to say that the overall timestream is infinite. With infinite length, the growth of branches is infinite as well. These two support the 'infinite' tweet since the universes refer to the branches
Yes that what I meant, professor paradox was mentioning the existing branches or parallel versions of the history we know and while proceeding to mentioning them he eventually just ended upto saying "adinfinitum", because all of them cannot be mentioned within finite amount of counts because they are infinite. Same for maltruant as context was for alternate dimensions and all the universes to which he said "non of it'll matter once he restart the time war".
And as tweets favours and says the samething, it's valid to use.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top