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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

Reiner04 said:
I just want the story to be bit dark man. Like even the fan comics are ******* sick. At this point official one's gotta do better.
Click to expand...
I mean the reason is Ben 10 never got a adult audience series, and yeah, adult audience Ben 10 would be sick
 
Just being curious, in what tier so you guys scale Ben's normal aliens? I personally:

OS - High 6-A
UAF - High 6-A+/5-C (10x OS)
UA - 5-C+ (Ult Hsaur's 10x his base form)
OV - 5-C+ (Upscale Ult Aliens via Gwen)
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Just being curious, in what tier so you guys scale Ben's normal aliens? I personally:

OS - High 6-A
UAF - High 6-A+/5-C (10x OS)
UA - 5-C+ (Ult Hsaur's 10x his base form)
OV - 5-C+ (Upscale Ult Aliens via Gwen)
Click to expand...
Well yeah, exactly that.
 
Aolphl said:
If I remember correctly, Kevin was saying Earth can't take signals from light years away so people on won't be panic (although, I can be wrong cuz last time I watched the episode was one and half year ago)
Click to expand...
Damn. I will check the eps
 
Reiner04 said:
Well yeah, exactly that.
Click to expand...
Cool.

Are there any other H6A feats for OS? Aside from
  • Four Arms cracking the Great One's shell
  • Casual Upchuck clashing with the Forever King, and the armor resisting Ben's sub energy amped blast.
  • Kevin 11 overpowering the Omnitrix's energy feedback, which power source is stated to be more powerful than the sub-energy.
  • Galvanic Mechamophs reparing Galvan B
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Just being curious, in what tier so you guys scale Ben's normal aliens? I personally:

OS - High 6-A
UAF - High 6-A+/5-C (10x OS)
UA - 5-C+ (Ult Hsaur's 10x his base form)
OV - 5-C+ (Upscale Ult Aliens via Gwen)
Click to expand...
I’m honestly not sure what exact tier I’d be confident putting them in, so I’ll just list whatever I think a reasonable high end is.

OS: Anywhere up to High 6-A (Sub-Energy’s power of the sun statement plus it being stated to be able to blow up a continent iirc). Maybe up to 5-C for Vilgax (depends on if OV past Vilgax, who should scale to OV past Ben, is any stronger than OS Vilgax or not).

OV past: Anywhere up to 5-C (Malware surviving being overloaded with energy capable of destroying Galvan B).

AF: Upscales from previous tier, maybe up to Low 5-B (While AF Vilgax is stated to be 10x stronger, due to the nature of the statement I’m not sure if it should apply to the whole franchise’s timeline or just what we saw from the first two shows. In other words, idk if AF Vilgax should be 10x OS Vilgax or OV past Vilgax, or whether that even matters).

UA & OV: need to think more about it before deciding for sure.

Tbh while I said High 6-A and 5-C are “high ends” for me, I honestly wouldn’t be entirely against high tier 5 to low tier 4 considering stuff like:
  • The 10x Ultimate Humungousaur statement making base characters downscale from Way Big due to Ultimate Kevin having his DNA. Also Ultimate Humungousaur himself scaling to Ascalon’s planet busting feat.
  • The recalc of the Great One surviving Earth’s destruction being high tier 5 iirc, which Four Arms scales to.
  • Anodite Gwen being comparatively less high tier in OV compared to UAF, with AF Anodite Gwen scaling to the Highbreed Warships (While the Gwen stuff honestly feels more like a retcon of her power rather than every other character being at her level, if she’s canonically supposed to be the same as in UAF then it works OK with the other Tier 5 stuff).
Still think the 4-B stuff is an outlier lol
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I’m honestly not sure what exact tier I’d be confident putting them in, so I’ll just list whatever I think a reasonable high end is.

OS: Anywhere up to High 6-A (Sub-Energy’s power of the sun statement plus it being stated to be able to blow up a continent iirc). Maybe up to 5-C for Vilgax (depends on if OV past Vilgax, who should scale to OV past Ben, is any stronger than OS Vilgax or not).

OV past: Anywhere up to 5-C (Malware surviving being overloaded with energy capable of destroying Galvan B).

AF: Upscales from previous tier, maybe up to Low 5-B (While AF Vilgax is stated to be 10x stronger, due to the nature of the statement I’m not sure if it should apply to the whole franchise’s timeline or just what we saw from the first two shows. In other words, idk if AF Vilgax should be 10x OS Vilgax or OV past Vilgax, or whether that even matters).

UA & OV: need to think more about it before deciding for sure.

Tbh while I said High 6-A and 5-C are “high ends” for me, I honestly wouldn’t be entirely against high tier 5 to low tier 4 considering stuff like:
  • The 10x Ultimate Humungousaur statement making base characters downscale from Way Big due to Ultimate Kevin having his DNA. Also Ultimate Humungousaur himself scaling to Ascalon’s planet busting feat.
  • The recalc of the Great One surviving Earth’s destruction being high tier 5 iirc, which Four Arms scales to.
  • Anodite Gwen being comparatively less high tier in OV compared to UAF, with AF Anodite Gwen scaling to the Highbreed Warships (While the Gwen stuff honestly feels more like a retcon of her power rather than every other character being at her level, if she’s canonically supposed to be the same as in UAF then it works OK with the other Tier 5 stuff).
Still think the 4-B stuff is an outlier lol
Click to expand...
I think Vilgax being 10× the OS should be fine. It was pressured on quite alot in episode that Vilgax is way stronger than before. With Vilgax stating he has powers of greatest heros of 10 planets. Ben started to own his ass again later on because, in ben's own word, "he got way stronger than before too"
 
But in anycase, if with the 10 MFTL+ feats Ben 10 ain't getting MFTL+, then forget it will get Tier 6 or 5 with merely 5 or 6 calcs.
 
Reiner04 said:
I think Vilgax being 10× the OS should be fine. It was pressured on quite alot in episode that Vilgax is way stronger than before. With Vilgax stating he has powers of greatest heros of 10 planets. Ben started to own his ass again later on because, in ben's own word, "he got way stronger than before too"
Click to expand...
Yeah he’s definitely 10x OS Vilgax at least. I’m just not sure if he should be 10x stronger than the Vilgax 11 year old Ben had to deal with, or if that Vilgax was any stronger than OS Vilgax or not.
 
Btw a question about the Petropia’s destruction feat. I know calcs for it were rejected, but is there any kind of baseline level for the feat like just treating it as 5-B or something? I ask because Ascalon scales due to Vilgax’s statement of never feeling such power (Ascalon already has planetary stuff but it adds consistency).
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Btw a question about the Petropia’s destruction feat. I know calcs for it were rejected, but is there any kind of baseline level for the feat like just treating it as 5-B or something? I ask because Ascalon scales due to Vilgax’s statement of never feeling such power (Ascalon already has planetary stuff but it adds consistency).
Click to expand...
There is a way to calc it. I will eventually do it. It will likely be 5-B, yeah.
 
One last thing for now as I go to sleep: are there any “strongest villain” or similar statements between the start of the series and the Ultkmate Kevin arc? Something that could scale someone (likely a villain) to the Great One. It can’t be after the Ultimate Kevin arc because then that would include stuff like Ultimate Eon and Dagon.

The whole Four Arms cracking its shell thing is a bit contentious, so having something else to scale the characters to it would be good.
 
O
Ghengiroo115 said:
One last thing for now as I go to sleep: are there any “strongest villain” or similar statements between the start of the series and the Ultkmate Kevin arc? Something that could scale someone (likely a villain) to the Great One. It can’t be after the Ultimate Kevin arc because then that would include stuff like Ultimate Eon and Dagon.

The whole Four Arms cracking its shell thing is a bit contentious, so having something else to scale the characters to it would be good.
Click to expand...
OS Vilgax has one
Screenshot-20251115-064912-com-google-android-googlequicksearchbox-Lens-Exported-Act-1.jpg

So does AF Vilgax
 
One of the most ridiculously laughable things I’ve seen on this wiki is the way people use the word “human” to downgrade characters—whether it’s their tier or their speed. For example: “I disagree that Ben is Tier 4-B with MFTL+ speed because he’s just a ‘human.’” That logic is completely absurd. We’re talking about fictional humans. What actually matters are the feats shown in the story, not this lazy excuse of “he’s human, so he can’t be that strong.” By that reasoning, Krillin would never be Tier 2-C, since he’s 100% human in Dragon Ball.
So why not just downgrade him to Tier 10 while you’re at it?
 
NXCHT.66 said:
One of the most ridiculously laughable things I’ve seen on this wiki is the way people use the word “human” to downgrade characters—whether it’s their tier or their speed. For example: “I disagree that Ben is Tier 4-B with MFTL+ speed because he’s just a ‘human.’” That logic is completely absurd. We’re talking about fictional humans. What actually matters are the feats shown in the story, not this lazy excuse of “he’s human, so he can’t be that strong.” By that reasoning, Krillin would never be Tier 2-C, since he’s 100% human in Dragon Ball.
So why not just downgrade him to Tier 10 while you’re at it?
Click to expand...
Humans in Ben 10 verse are made up of Mana. Also Ben as a human scales to Cartoon Network cosmology from CN City where all cartoon network characters live
cartoonnetwork.fandom.com

CN City

The CN City era (also known as Reface 2004, Universe or simply City) was the fourth era of Cartoon Network. It began on June 14, 2004, replacing Powerhouse, and lasted until May 28, 2007, overlapping with the Yes! era from April 2006 to May 2007. The first program to air under the CN City era...
cartoonnetwork.fandom.com cartoonnetwork.fandom.com

Ben destroyed cartoon network city too, But that would need CN City cosmology page.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Tbh while I said High 6-A and 5-C are “high ends” for me, I honestly wouldn’t be entirely against high tier 5 to low tier 4 considering stuff like:
Click to expand...
Ykw actually:
  • OS: 118.28 Ronnatons (High 5-A). Four Arms cracks the Great One’s shell, and Ben’s aliens Season 2 onwards downscale from Vilgax who potentially scales to the Great One thanks to that statement linked above (they downscale because Kevin 11 also downscales from Vilgax).
    • Way Big: upscales from Vilgax
  • AF: 1.1828 Quettatons (High 5-A). Vilgax is 10x stronger than before. Also potentially scales to the Great One.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: 11.828 Quettatons (Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base Humungousaur.
    • Way Big: Likely 1.1828 Quettatons (Likely Low 4-C). Should upscale from Ultimate Humungousaur like he does in UA.
    • Anodite Gwen: At least 1.46 Quettatons, likely far higher (At least High 5-A, likely far higher). Far superior to the Highbreed Warships and the rest of the base cast.
  • UA: At least 1.1828 Quettatons (At least High 5-A). Stronger than before. Downscale from Ultimate Humungousaur, who scales to Ascalon’s planet busting feat and likely Sugilite’s crystal as well.
    • Ultimate Aggregor: At least 7.0968 Quettatons, possibly 7.505 Quettatons (At least High 5-A+, possibly Low 4-C). Since the UA cast is vaguely stronger than the AF cast, and multiplying the AF cast value by 6 only has a 1.05x difference between baseline Low 4-C, you can argue that Ultimate Aggregor could upscale to baseline Low 4-C.
    • Ultimate, Ultimate Kevin, etc: At least 11.828 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base Humungousaur and scales to Ascalon’s 700-ish Ronnatons feat, plus likely Petropia’s destruction as well.
    • Way Big: At least 50.86 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C). The current equation puts Way Big at around 4.3x the strength of Ultimate Humungousaur, so carrying that over should place Way Big this high.
    • Anodite Gwen: Seemingly just upscales from the Ultimates and George, as far as I can remember. Not sure if she has any scaling to Way Big.
  • OV: At least 11.828 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C). They scale to Gwen’s Lucky Girl form, which is apparently meant to be her Anodite form.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: At least 118.28 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C+). Should still be a 10x boost unless I’m missing something.
    • Way Big, Atomix, etc: At least 118.28 Quettatons, likely higher. Should scale above Ultimate Humungousaur either through logic or direct feats. Way Big in particular is also comparable to Way Bads, which are implied to be stronger than Lucky Girl given she runs away from one during the Rooters arc.
  • Future Timeline: At least Low 4-C+, possibly 2-A. At a baseline they scale far beyond OV characters due to downscaling from Future Way Big. They’re possibly 2-A due to potentially being comparable to Ultimate Ben, who doesn’t have any explicit difference in power. OS Ben 10K during Ken 10 and OV Ben 10K are also both older than Ultimate Ben, so it’d stand to reason that they’re stronger or at least relative.
This is just my unfocused thoughts regarding potential High 5-A scaling. It’s not final and subject to change but these are my thoughts rn.

Edit: fixed the later values slightly to account for the Ultimate Kevin equation. I personally don’t agree with these exact values as the current equation assumes Ultimate Kevin only has 1/10th of Ultimate Greg’s strength, but meh it doesn’t change much outside of upgrading the OV cast slightly and potentially downgrading UA Way Big.
 
Last edited:
Ghengiroo115 said:
Ykw actually:
  • OS: 118.28 Ronnatons (High 5-A). Four Arms cracks the Great One’s shell, and Ben’s aliens Season 2 onwards downscale from Vilgax who potentially scales to the Great One thanks to that statement linked above (they downscale because Kevin 11 also downscales from Vilgax).
    • Way Big: upscales from Vilgax
  • AF: 1.1828 Quettatons (High 5-A). Vilgax is 10x stronger than before. Also potentially scales to the Great One.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: 11.828 Quettatons (Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base Humungousaur.
    • Way Big: Likely 1.1828 Quettatons (Likely Low 4-C). Should upscale from Ultimate Humungousaur like he does in UA.
    • Anodite Gwen: At least 1.46 Quettatons, likely far higher (At least High 5-A, likely far higher). Far superior to the Highbreed Warships and the rest of the base cast.
  • UA: At least 1.1828 Quettatons (At least High 5-A). Stronger than before. Downscale from Ultimate Humungousaur, who scales to Ascalon’s planet busting feat and likely Sugilite’s crystal as well.
    • Ultimate Aggregor: At least 7.0968 Quettatons, possibly 7.505 Quettatons (At least High 5-A+, possibly Low 4-C). Since the UA cast is vaguely stronger than the AF cast, and multiplying the AF cast value by 6 only has a 1.05x difference between baseline Low 4-C, you can argue that Ultimate Aggregor could upscale to baseline Low 4-C.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: At least 11.828 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base and scales to Ascalon’s 700-ish Ronnatons feat, plus likely Petropia’s destruction as well.
    • Ultimate Kevin, Way Big, Anodite Gwen, etc: At least Low 4-C. Not gonna bother with the exact ratings but you’d just use the same equations we currently use for that.
  • OV: At least [insert rating here, using 11.828 Quettatons as a baseline] (At least Low 4-C). They scale to Gwen’s Lucky Girl form, which is apparently meant to be her Anodite form.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: At least 118.28 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C+). Should still be a 10x boost unless I’m missing something.
    • Way Big, Atomix, etc: At least 118.28 Quettatons, likely higher. Should scale above Ultimate Humungousaur either through logic or direct feats. Way Big in particular is also comparable to Way Bads, which are implied to be stronger than Lucky Girl given she runs away from one during the Rooters arc.
  • Future Timeline: At least Low 4-C+, possibly 2-A. At a baseline they scale far beyond OV characters due to downscaling from Future Way Big. They’re possibly 2-A due to potentially being comparable to Ultimate Ben, who doesn’t have any explicit difference in power. OS Ben 10K during Ken 10 and OV Ben 10K are also both older than Ultimate Ben, so it’d stand to reason that they’re stronger or at least relative.
This is just my unfocused thoughts regarding potential High 5-A scaling. It’s not final and subject to change but these are my thoughts rn.
Click to expand...
I still think that Kevin 11 shouldn't downscale from all of Ben's aliens, and that present Way Big upscales Eon.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Ykw actually:
  • OS: 118.28 Ronnatons (High 5-A). Four Arms cracks the Great One’s shell, and Ben’s aliens Season 2 onwards downscale from Vilgax who potentially scales to the Great One thanks to that statement linked above (they downscale because Kevin 11 also downscales from Vilgax).
    • Way Big: upscales from Vilgax
  • AF: 1.1828 Quettatons (High 5-A). Vilgax is 10x stronger than before. Also potentially scales to the Great One.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: 11.828 Quettatons (Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base Humungousaur.
    • Way Big: Likely 1.1828 Quettatons (Likely Low 4-C). Should upscale from Ultimate Humungousaur like he does in UA.
    • Anodite Gwen: At least 1.46 Quettatons, likely far higher (At least High 5-A, likely far higher). Far superior to the Highbreed Warships and the rest of the base cast.
  • UA: At least 1.1828 Quettatons (At least High 5-A). Stronger than before. Downscale from Ultimate Humungousaur, who scales to Ascalon’s planet busting feat and likely Sugilite’s crystal as well.
    • Ultimate Aggregor: At least 7.0968 Quettatons, possibly 7.505 Quettatons (At least High 5-A+, possibly Low 4-C). Since the UA cast is vaguely stronger than the AF cast, and multiplying the AF cast value by 6 only has a 1.05x difference between baseline Low 4-C, you can argue that Ultimate Aggregor could upscale to baseline Low 4-C.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: At least 11.828 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C). 10x stronger than base and scales to Ascalon’s 700-ish Ronnatons feat, plus likely Petropia’s destruction as well.
    • Ultimate Kevin, Way Big, Anodite Gwen, etc: At least Low 4-C. Not gonna bother with the exact ratings but you’d just use the same equations we currently use for that.
  • OV: At least [insert rating here, using 11.828 Quettatons as a baseline] (At least Low 4-C). They scale to Gwen’s Lucky Girl form, which is apparently meant to be her Anodite form.
    • Ultimate Humungousaur: At least 118.28 Quettatons (At least Low 4-C+). Should still be a 10x boost unless I’m missing something.
    • Way Big, Atomix, etc: At least 118.28 Quettatons, likely higher. Should scale above Ultimate Humungousaur either through logic or direct feats. Way Big in particular is also comparable to Way Bads, which are implied to be stronger than Lucky Girl given she runs away from one during the Rooters arc.
  • Future Timeline: At least Low 4-C+, possibly 2-A. At a baseline they scale far beyond OV characters due to downscaling from Future Way Big. They’re possibly 2-A due to potentially being comparable to Ultimate Ben, who doesn’t have any explicit difference in power. OS Ben 10K during Ken 10 and OV Ben 10K are also both older than Ultimate Ben, so it’d stand to reason that they’re stronger or at least relative.
This is just my unfocused thoughts regarding potential High 5-A scaling. It’s not final and subject to change but these are my thoughts rn.
Click to expand...
can you link me the Official CRT post where Ben 10 was upgraded to Tier 4?
 
DemonicDude said:
can you link me the Official CRT post where Ben 10 was upgraded to Tier 4?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

Introduction This thread is intended to portray consistent tier 4 feats/statements for Ben's aliens along with establishment of a chain scale that would apply to all the iterations of Ben 10 (except reboot). Tier 4 feat/statement(s) Entropy Pump's DC According to professor paradox, if you start...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

I believe it was this one.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

Introduction This thread is intended to portray consistent tier 4 feats/statements for Ben's aliens along with establishment of a chain scale that would apply to all the iterations of Ben 10 (except reboot). Tier 4 feat/statement(s) Entropy Pump's DC According to professor paradox, if you start...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

I believe it was this one.
Click to expand...
thanks gurl 😳
Humungo-Smirk.jpg
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Do you mean Ultimate Kevin having the DNA of every alien?
Click to expand...
Yes.
I do not think that Kevin has the power of ALL of Ben's playlist now that WoG isn't usable.
Ghengiroo115 said:
I don’t remember if this has been mentioned before or not. How does Way Big outscale Eon?
Click to expand...
  • Way Big matched power with Clockwork 10K, and they could power up the HoA, with Paradox stating that Eon needed both of their power to open a breach.
  • All of Way Big versions aren't too far from each other. Ben as a 10y/o fought Azmuth as a Tokustar, who should be even older than Ben 10K's Way Big.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Yes.
I do not think that Kevin has the power of ALL of Ben's playlist now that WoG isn't usable.
Click to expand...
There’s still enough implications in the series itself (plus I’d argue that narrative clarifications in WoG should still be fair game), but if you disagree with that then fair enough.

GeneralSol16 said:
  • Way Big matched power with Clockwork 10K, and they could power up the HoA, with Paradox stating that Eon needed both of their power to open a breach.
  • All of Way Big versions aren't too far from each other. Ben as a 10y/o fought Azmuth as a Tokustar, who should be even older than Ben 10K's Way Big.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s true. Although Kevin needs Way Big’s DNA at least in order to no-low diff Aggregor like he did, as he’d only be around 5x his base form if he had every alien but Way Big. If it wasn’t for this then I’d be on board with 2-A Way Big, but that would make everyone 2-A considering Ultimate Kevin has his DNA.
 
NXCHT.66 said:
By that reasoning, Krillin would never be Tier 2-C, since he’s 100% human in Dragon Ball.
So why not just downgrade him to Tier 10 while you’re at it?
Click to expand...
Ki, the Cosmic Fundamental power in Dragon Ball, unfortunately isn't a good comparison to humans from other universes because it grants infinite potential and growth to everything it incorporates in Dragon Ball
 
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