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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

Ghengiroo115 said:
There’s still enough implications in the series itself (plus I’d argue that narrative clarifications in WoG should still be fair game), but if you disagree with that then fair enough.
Click to expand...
Not really? OV made it clear that Kevin doesn't absorb all of Ben's available aliens when he absorbs the Omnitrix, so yeah.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Not really? OV made it clear that Kevin doesn't absorb all of Ben's available aliens when he absorbs the Omnitrix, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. 12 year old Kevin is less experienced with his powers, while 17 year old Kevin has no reason to absorb all of Ben’s aliens as he’s only pretending to work for Servantis. Ultimate Kevin shows himself having the DNA of more than ten alien species directly on-screen* so we know ten isn’t his limit as a 17 year old.

Regardless, from a purely AP standpoint it doesn’t matter much how many aliens Ultimate Kevin has. He needs Way Big to no diff Aggregor, as with every alien other than Way Big he’d only be slightly stronger than Aggregor at best (if we limited ourselves to just on-screen powers, Ultimate Kevin would’ve had no chance against Aggregor). He also scales to Ultimate Humungousaur, so his post-Greg absorption power is at least 10x by default.

*At the top of my head, his appearance/powers show he has at least these aliens (not counting any abilities that could arguably come from outside the Ultimatrix):
  1. Rath (appearance)
  2. Humungousaur (appearance)
  3. Brainstorm (appearance)
  4. Diamondhead (appearance)
  5. Chromastone (appearance)
  6. Spidermonkey (appearance)
  7. Swampfire (appearance)
  8. Big Chill (appearance)
  9. Jetray (appearance)
  10. Lodestar (appearance)
  11. Ultimate Spidermonkey (mouth can unhinge and spit webs in the same way)
  12. Goop (powers only)
  13. Echo Echo (powers only)
 
7e1049ce71fa3ecaaa32270b49f8a8d3.gif
vsbattles.com

[ONE VOTE NEEDED] Ben 10: “OK, so you’re saying the sword needs someone worthy.” - Ascalon re-interpretation

How powerful is Ascalon? When wielded by Sir George in the past, he had a brutal battle against the Dagon that ended with him cutting out the creature’s heart and sealing him away, as he was unable to properly kill him. According to Azmuth, Dagon underestimated George in their first fight, and...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
There’s a statement from Dwayne McDuffie that says Kevin would’ve probably still been able to defeat Aggregor if he absorbed young Ben’s Omnitrix instead, though it would be more difficult. I’m pretty confident this statement is unusable after the WoG restrictions, but out of curiosity I wanted to see the implications this would have.

First off, this Ben would have to be post-Secret of the Omnitrix, as it would be basically impossible for Kevin to defeat Aggregor using young Ben’s Omnitrix without Way Big’s power. This means Kevin would have access to at best 18 aliens:
  1. Heatblast
  2. Four Arms
  3. Diamondhead
  4. Wildmutt
  5. Stinkfly
  6. Ripjaws
  7. Upgrade
  8. XLR8
  9. Cannonbolt
  10. Wildvine
  11. Blitzwolfer
  12. Snare-Oh
  13. Frankenstrike
  14. Upchuck
  15. Eye Guy
  16. Way Big
  17. Grey Matter
  18. Potentially Ditto
Grey Matter and Ditto are irrelevant since they don’t have the typical scaling, which leaves at best 15 aliens not counting Way Big.

Since OS characters are 1/10th later characters and Kevin only gets 1/10th of their power, that would mean absorbing those 15 aliens would only give Kevin a 1.15x power increase compared to his base form. Ultimate Aggregor is 6x base Kevin and this hypothetical Omnitrix absorption would be relative in strength, so we can calculate OS Way Big’s strength based on that:
  • 6 - 1.15 = 4.85
  • 4.85 x 10 = 48.5
  • OS Way Big’s strength: 48.5x base UAF/OV characters
Again, probably not useable, but neat.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
There’s a statement from Dwayne McDuffie that says Kevin would’ve probably still been able to defeat Aggregor if he absorbed young Ben’s Omnitrix instead, though it would be more difficult. I’m pretty confident this statement is unusable after the WoG restrictions, but out of curiosity I wanted to see the implications this would have.

First off, this Ben would have to be post-Secret of the Omnitrix, as it would be basically impossible for Kevin to defeat Aggregor using young Ben’s Omnitrix without Way Big’s power. This means Kevin would have access to at best 18 aliens:
  1. Heatblast
  2. Four Arms
  3. Diamondhead
  4. Wildmutt
  5. Stinkfly
  6. Ripjaws
  7. Upgrade
  8. XLR8
  9. Cannonbolt
  10. Wildvine
  11. Blitzwolfer
  12. Snare-Oh
  13. Frankenstrike
  14. Upchuck
  15. Eye Guy
  16. Way Big
  17. Grey Matter
  18. Potentially Ditto
Grey Matter and Ditto are irrelevant since they don’t have the typical scaling, which leaves at best 15 aliens not counting Way Big.

Since OS characters are 1/10th later characters and Kevin only gets 1/10th of their power, that would mean absorbing those 15 aliens would only give Kevin a 1.15x power increase compared to his base form. Ultimate Aggregor is 6x base Kevin and this hypothetical Omnitrix absorption would be relative in strength, so we can calculate OS Way Big’s strength based on that:
  • 6 - 1.15 = 4.85
  • 4.85 x 10 = 48.5
  • OS Way Big’s strength: 48.5x base UAF/OV characters
Again, probably not useable, but neat.
Click to expand...
Bro is also saying Ben still wouldn't be able to defeat Aggregor if he gets a few Ben more like WHAT holy Greg glaze
 
Lort15 said:
Bro is using ult echo echo against Kevin but not Aggregor i dunno Ben 10K could defeat him he would know what happen kind of so he would use better aliens
Click to expand...
If the Bens come from any point in time, I’m imagining them accidentally summoning a bunch of useless Bens. Toddler Ben, early teen Ben, baby Ben, 100 year old Ben, Ben 0.5 seconds before he got the Omnitrix…
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
If the Bens come from any point in time, I’m imagining them accidentally summoning a bunch of useless Bens. Toddler Ben, early teen Ben, baby Ben, 100 year old Ben, Ben 0.5 seconds before he got the Omnitrix…
Click to expand...
Lmao valid but i'm assuming that they meant useful Bens like ben 10k or smth
 
Random question: how would everyone rank the 10 strongest villains?

My ranking:
  1. Dagon / Vilgax (Dagon absorbed)
  2. Maltruant
  3. Charmcaster (with Alpha Rune) / Addwaitya (with Alpha Rune)
  4. Eon (Prime)
  5. Kevin 11,000
  6. Malware (Fourth Form)
  7. Trombipulor (Peak)
  8. Way Bads
  9. That one Trash Monster Way Big fought, I guess???
  10. Darkstar (on-screen peak)
Notes:
  • I only considered the strongest form of each villain, so no Malgax or Charmcaster with Magical Totems or anything like that.
  • I ignored alternate Bens because I didn’t want them to take up most of this list.
  • I think the top 3 are interchangeable placement-wise, and it’s arguable who’s stronger between Kevin 11K and Prime Eon.
  • Darkstar could be higher, but it’s unknown just how strong his peak is outside of “vaguely stronger than Ultimate Humungousaur”.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Random question: how would everyone rank the 10 strongest villains?

My ranking:
  1. Dagon / Vilgax (Dagon absorbed)
  2. Maltruant
  3. Charmcaster (with Alpha Rune) / Addwaitya (with Alpha Rune)
  4. Eon (Prime)
  5. Kevin 11,000
  6. Malware (Fourth Form)
  7. Trombipulor (Peak)
  8. Way Bads
  9. That one Trash Monster Way Big fought, I guess???
  10. Darkstar (on-screen peak)
Notes:
  • I only considered the strongest form of each villain, so no Malgax or Charmcaster with Magical Totems or anything like that.
  • I ignored alternate Bens because I didn’t want them to take up most of this list.
  • I think the top 3 are interchangeable placement-wise, and it’s arguable who’s stronger between Kevin 11K and Prime Eon.
  • Darkstar could be higher, but it’s unknown just how strong his peak is outside of “vaguely stronger than Ultimate Humungousaur”.
Click to expand...
can Maltruant be higher? cuz the entire infinite timestream is under his control
🤔
 
Lort15 said:
can Maltruant be higher? cuz the entire infinite timestream is under his control
🤔
Click to expand...
Honestly you can scale him to that tier by just upscaling him from Prime Eon, which is why I have him so high.

Prime Eon >= Ultimate Ben Clockwork ≈ hypothetical OV Ben 10K Clockwork < Atomic-X < Maltruant

Before I treated Ultimate Ben as a self-contained thing with his own scaling, but I’ve changed my mind on that. I feel like it’s silly for “Ultimate Ben” to be the only one with multiversal scaling when it’s not stated that he’s more powerful than he would be otherwise, especially when there’s no obvious reason for him to be that strong.

You can also argue Dagon is above both Prime Eon and the Alpha Rune which is why he’s number 1, though in both Dagon and Maltruant’s cases I’m not 100% on it because I doubt they were intended to be multiverse busters. Narratively though they feel like they’re meant to be above basically every other Ben 10 villain, so I guess that’s what happens when you give a random villain a blatant multiversal statement lol. You could make it more consistent by lowballing Eon’s statement to just universal, but it’s obvious that by “timeline” he means every timeline since that’s the only way he could get rid of every Ben.
 
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