- 10,384
- 4,521
AIIII
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ben 10 General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
Guruguru69
He/Him- 13
- 30
(the best one)
Guruguru69
He/Him- 13
- 30
Green also hasn't finished Omniverse
OMNIVERSAL-KING
He/Him- 459
- 347
What happened
Why you pinged me
- 9,982
- 10,817
- 10,384
- 4,521
Yes and no, it depends on how high you have the SoL in Ben 10...
Only the sword itself has high durability, his armor is trash (ultimate tier).
Yes
I don't think particularly reacted to George's energy slices except when it was spatial cutting.
Gwen's just that broken my guy. Ben told her to hold back her power and she still gave Dagon a run for his money... Like why would Dagon hold back his attacks against the guy who previously defeated him?
Why would he hold back his durability? Not even sure if he can do that due to his energy physiology. Chromastone just basically shot Dagon's own beam back at him and was then just doing chipping damage with the remainder of his energy.
Prove it, except for spatial cutting. Also Vilgax explicitly mentioned Ascalon's power together with Dagon's power as an impressive power source.
Excalibur should upscale from Ascalon, but that's a discussion for another day.
1) Legerdomain doesn't have a set size limit, not one so low anyways and 2) Nah, mana can just be very condensed. Also Dagon is a mana user, so Gwen scaling to Dagon can never be the problem.
BASED
- 9,982
- 10,817
Well tbh, I barely know any fiction which hasn't contradicted their speed scaling in the worst way possible.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Ben 10 does go above and beyond in its weirdness though.
- 9,982
- 10,817
explain bich.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Malware almost leaving a star system in a few minutes despite "not having FTL capabilities" and the Time Beast freely running through time despite "being FTL".
- 9,982
- 10,817
PIS
We know being FTL is not enough for time travel, there must be a threshold.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Malware eats PIS for breakfast.
Irl it can be but not in the way that Ben 10 characters do it pretty sure.
- 9,982
- 10,817
Your mom.
I know irl we can, but I'm saying in Ben 10 we can't, there must be some threshold beyond it. We also have techyons in ben 10 remember? A FTL particle that moves through time.
- 10,384
- 4,521
- 2,455
- 1,228
Nah, it's just the coldest fact possible.
- 9,982
- 10,817
Warning?
- 2,766
- 1,649
- 2,766
- 1,649
Like it just got closed out of nowhere
- 9,982
- 10,817
parallel paradox comic was decided to be non canon in 3 consecutive threads and ghost ship in particular has contradiction with main story line, so there was no point in keeping it open.
OMNIVERSAL-KING
He/Him- 459
- 347
Can we do a rejustification for parallel paradox being canon [because both parallel paradox and ghost ship are under same continuity]
- 2,766
- 1,649
had no idea there were 3 other thread about it lol
- 9,982
- 10,817
I was the one who created them.
- 9,982
- 10,817
Both are non canon.
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,658
- 1,248
Oh right, the XLR8 vs Hex fight and the whole Time Beast weirdness.
That seems a little silly given the armour is created by Ascalon, but I guess that wraps around to whether Ultimate Humungousaur scales to Ascalon or not. Regardless he still scales above Esoterica so Dagon sending them after him is still pretty insulting.
George was able to noticeably push back Dagon with his energy slices while Chromastone was blasting his own energy back at him.
That's the thing though, Chromastone sending Gwen's power at Dagon didn't even move him.
Because before he was beaten while in a weaker form, whereas this time he's in a stronger form and knows he can win. We also know he doesn't take George that seriously regardless of how close they scale.
To be honest idk if an energy being could do that either, but the reason he would do that is simply to toy with his enemies. Nothing would feel more hopeless than to significantly hurt him with a certain attack, only for your next attempt doing the exact same thing resulting in barely any damage.
The thing though is that Chromastone's attack powered by some of Dagon's own energy caused him to shudder in pain, whereas when he had at least as much energy from Gwen and supporting attacks from George he couldn't even budge Dagon.
Again it all wraps back around to whether Ultimate Humungousaur scales to Ascalon or not. I think he does, so the only way Ascalon could significantly hurt beings that scale massively above him would be through hax. You think he doesn't, so in that case Ascalon would simply scale to Dagon.
It's a weapon that can warp reality. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I don't believe Dagon has any crazy reality warping feats or statements, so Ben would've had to channel Dagon's power through Ascalon in order to reshape the universe.
If I am wrong on this then I'll just concede right here, because that's a very good point if Dagon also had that kind of reality warping power.
Legerdomain is described as a parallel world like Ben's dimension and the Null Void (both of which are High 3-A), but I guess that technically doesn't have to mean they're equal in size. But yeah I guess Mana being very condensed (plus how it's present across the entire universe) can explain that away regardless of the realm's size
Gwen and Dagon are different since all of Gwen's power comes from Mana whereas Dagon mainly uses a different kind of energy, but because of the other stuff I'm mainly just arguing semantics now.
OMNIVERSAL-KING
He/Him- 459
- 347
Guys! is ordinal infinity [physically existing] useful for high 1-B ?
- 10,384
- 4,521
Yes + Zs'Skayr dodging the sun gun + NRG.
Yes, though we know groups of people can overwhelm ultimate tiers. BFR'ing George is also an option.
Ok, so the 2 combined could hurt him.
So Gwen's power downscales from Dagon's.
Yeah but what's the point of not using this power advantage?
Fair I suppose. Why is nobody commenting on this then though?
Only stated to be "a lot" or something similar, which implies Gwen isn't infinitely weaker than Dagon. Nothing more, nothing less.
True.
Magic is mostly knowing the true names of things, Dagon exists everywhere and is thus nigh-omniscient. Verdona can warp reality. Do the maths yourself.
IIRC Dagon's heart gives one the ability to rule the universe.
Yes
Exactly
It is never stated to be a parallel world, I disagree with how Reiner currently argues the cosmology and this would just upgrade all these realms if it were true since parallel does mean equal in size for realms.
Yes, souls which are essentially condensed mana (One becomes one with everything in Gen Rex after he dies) are a thing after all.
Disagree, I think Dagon exclusively uses mana.
- 2,455
- 1,228
Well, if both are not canon and are in the same continuity, wouldn't a profile for the comics be possible?
- 10,384
- 4,521
Another irrelevant Ben page?
Guruguru69
He/Him- 13
- 30
not as irrelevant as your presence here
- 9,982
- 10,817
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,658
- 1,248
Yeah I don't think I can argue with this.
I'm still not 100% sure on if Ascalon should scale to Dagon's true form or not, but I feel like at this point we're just gonna be repeating the same points over and over again so I'm mostly gonna stop now. However with this extra context in mind Ultimate Humungousaur scaling to Ascalon doesn't make much sense to me anymore.
Oh yeah, those ones too. Tbf fiction ignores this with stuff like electricity and sound as well, but there is still the Time Beast.
Fair
Not sure
His reaction to the actual power boost makes it sound like it's on a similar level to the one he just got from Dagon.
It's implied to be so in Heroes United, where Ben says he goes to parallel worlds "all the time" at a point where he's only left his universe to go the Null Void, Legerdomain and the Forge of Creation. Obviously the Forge of Creation isn't parallel to Ben's dimension, so either "parallel world" is referring to the Null Void and Legerdomain as actually parallel or it's referring to all three of them and is just using "parallel world" as a synonym for realm or something.
Would it though? If Mana is super condensed or whatever then Legerdomain would still just be High 3-A in size, right?
Haven't watched Generator Rex outside of Heroes United so I didn't know about that lol. Mana is life energy though so it made sense to me even outside of that.
I'm not sure if he does since Mana is usually pink in UAF, but eh it doesn't really matter much.
- 9,982
- 10,817
- 9,982
- 10,817
I still remember once I just randomly said it as a joke while talking to green that “technically one can argue that Rex dimension and Ben's dimension is in the same Universe then proceed to interpret that all mentioned dimension contextually must be inside Universe. And so busting a Universe is 2-B possibly 2-A” And then brushed off the joke went to take a nap, then after a brief moment realised “WTF, this is no joke, a great cook ong“, within 2 hrs then I created a thread to prove Rex dimension is inside Universe, within 4 hrs it got accepted then I went to create 2B Universe thread. Green had one counterarguement at that time that is "Rex dimension was called Universe", but I was confident that it wasn't ever so I was sure that this argument doesn't lack from any perspective and stands good, infact, as per Occam's razor, it's just how it should be.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Glad we reached an understanding. Btw I'm fine with scaling Ultimate Humungousaur to the planet bust that Ascalon performed since Ben knew about it before the fight with George.
True, maybe you can argue it's amplified light. I prefer to just argue the SoL is faster than irl in Ben 10.
Similar level, sure. Exactly the same and thus the same result? No.
Well played, I think this used to be my argument before. Though I don't agree with the Null Void being a parallel world since it's embedded within Ben's universe.
Yeah I'm saying if you somehow managed to prove that it wasn't condensed then it'd just upgrade the size of the realms. Though this isn't entirely true since I have souls on a similar level to Dagon who scales to Ben's universe. So you'd end up with a contradiction.
OOF, that's what we call a skill issue my friend. This is a worse crime than not watching all of OV or Secret of the Omnitrix.
Darkstar's mana is yellow.
It matters for the reality warping argument.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Still capping I see.
- 9,982
- 10,817
Still coping I see.
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,658
- 1,248
Yeah I think he should too especially since he tried and failed in base with his first encounter with George.
I believe it makes sense either way since I’m pretty sure the otherwise fastest travel speed feat we know of is slower than the tachyons. Having both arguments as options are good though imo.
It feels to me like it’s at least as much, but maybe it’s just Chromastone surprised Gwen had that kind of power or something.
Yeah calling it a “parallel world” isn’t entirely accurate, but it’s one of two realms that Ben could be talking about and he uses the plural “worlds” so he kinda has to be talking about both.
Oh I see what you mean, yeah that’s true.
I’ll get around to it eventually.
Wouldn’t just being able to control Mana be enough? You don’t necessarily have to be made of Mana to be a powerful magic user.
- 10,384
- 4,521
Uhuh
Nah because Malware didn't tank it.
If flight speed counts then no.
Maybe Chromastone can't tell exactly how much power it is aside from "a lot"?
Or he visited more realms off-screen?
Good
Heck Hex's might be red even.
Sure, I merely meant that Dagon and Verdona must use the same power source for my argument to work.
Similar threads
