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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

DemonicDude said:
Superhuman Physical Characteristics (Scan), Time Manipulation (Scan), Time Travel (Scan), Dimensional Travel (Scan), Teleportation (Scan), Portal Creation (Scan), Mind Manipulation (Scan), Energy Manipulation (Scan), Age Manipulation (Scan), Reality Destruction with Chrono Navigator (Scan)

Would prefer in Bullet style format.
Click to expand...
Yeah the P&A section is very unfinished right now. For some reason his current profile just doesn’t have any scans in that section so I’m gonna have to find all of them myself.
 
Does Eon qualify for Weapon Mastery from his energy sword, energy daggers and grenades? Not sure what the qualifier for that ability is.

EDIT: Also, in this clip Eon is shown to both cause a shockwave and seemingly levitate (although I’m not sure if the latter is actually a power of his or just due to gravity being messed up where he is). Would these apply to his base or only while he has the Chrono Navigator? I would say the former since he isn’t visibly shown using the Chrono Navigator to activate them, but at the same time I’m not 100% sure.
 
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Sorry for yet more questions, but I want to make sure everything’s all good.
  1. Should the Chrono Navigator grant the user Cosmic Awareness (I believe that’s the right ability)? It’s described as a GPS for space-time or something along those lines, and when Eon acquires it he states that he can see every timeline and alternate reality.
  2. I’m still not 100% sure on how Eon’s chronology should be measured (does he permanently die in Ben 10,000 Returns and his later appearances are in his past, or does he have Resurrection?), however if the latter then what level of Resurrection should he have? I feel anything from Mid-High to Mid-Godly makes sense, but idk which one it should be for sure.
  3. Currently I have UA Eon vaguely scaling “much higher” than Ultimate Ben and only have him be his peak after he absorbs Ultimate Ben, but I’m wondering if instead I could downscale the Eon we see in the episode from his peak? While we don’t know exactly how his absorption works, I feel it should be linear to some extent as Eon knew Ultimate Ben was the last one he needed before he would become strong enough to recreate the timeline. Furthermore since the key is just called “Alternate Bens absorbed” I could maybe remove the pre-Ultimate Ben stuff entirely and just make that key cover his peak. However at the same time I’m not sure if this all works, which is why I’m bringing it up here lol.
 
Here are some interesting quotes from Race Against Time:
  • Ben: “Y-you died. I saw you burn up.”
  • Eon: “In the world where I came from, my people have the ability to manipulate time at its base level [Wonder what “base level” is suppose to mean]. By distorting the molecules around my form [Matter manip?], it was a simple matter to create the illusion that I wanted you to see. A cheap parlor trick, really [Two mentions of it being easy], but sufficient to assess your powers.”

  • Ben: ”Why don't you go back to your own world, where someone cares what you think?”
  • Eon: “Sadly, I can't do that - not without your help. You see, I am a prisoner of time, as is my race [In a later scene Eon basically states that his new body would live forever and lose its aging weakness, so this seems to be further confirmation of that]. But not for long.”
“Have you ever wondered why the Omnitrix only allows you to change for 10 minutes at a time?(…)It’s a failsafe so that the DNA of the alien life-forms trapped within the Omnitrix don’t overwhelm you when they take you over [Obviously this has been pretty much retconned in-show, however tbh I doubt this was ever how it’s supposed to work as Zs’Skayr was always portrayed as a special case due to his unique biology]... A failsafe that can be easily overridden if one knows the Omnitrix as intimately as I do […with context from the show this has to be because he had one himself, right? Hell even just in the movie I don’t see how he’d seemingly know so much about the Omnitrix without either hands-on experience or without him already succeeding in his goal].”

“We were a gilded race of warriors. We’d mastered the elements [What does this mean exactly?]- Gods [x1] who grew too strong and destroyed ourselves [This is really interesting to me. Is he saying the aging weakness is caused by too much power? Is he saying that they got so strong that they accidentally screwed up their world? Maybe both?].”
  • Eon: “It's my DNA that will be released from the Omnitrix [Remember this for a bit later]. I am the alien life-form that will soon overwhelm you. You are me, Benjamin.”
  • Ben: “No, you're lying! [The combination of Ben’s confrontational reaction and Eon using the present tense is really notable here. If not for them then I’d say Eon was just talking about Ben turning into him, however with them added it makes it seem like Ben interpreted Eon as saying they were the same person which would make sense considering Eon used the present tense. Let’s not forget that the letters in their names have always been very similar]”
“You will no longer be a simple, helpless child, but a god [x2]- not for mere moments, but for an eternity [As mentioned before, Eon states here that this new body will live forever].”

“Such power… trapped, held slave by a child [So this and a previous thing I said to keep in mind of both seem to imply that Eon’s DNA was already in the Omnitrix the entire time? No clue how that is supposed to have happened]. No longer. I am free!”

“You could have been a god [x3]!”
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Here are some interesting quotes from Race Against Time:
  • Ben: “Y-you died. I saw you burn up.”
  • Eon: “In the world where I came from, my people have the ability to manipulate time at its base level [Wonder what “base level” is suppose to mean]. By distorting the molecules around my form [Matter manip?], it was a simple matter to create the illusion that I wanted you to see. A cheap parlor trick, really [Two mentions of it being easy], but sufficient to assess your powers.”

  • Ben: ”Why don't you go back to your own world, where someone cares what you think?”
  • Eon: “Sadly, I can't do that - not without your help. You see, I am a prisoner of time, as is my race [In a later scene Eon basically states that his new body would live forever and lose its aging weakness, so this seems to be further confirmation of that]. But not for long.”
“Have you ever wondered why the Omnitrix only allows you to change for 10 minutes at a time?(…)It’s a failsafe so that the DNA of the alien life-forms trapped within the Omnitrix don’t overwhelm you when they take you over [Obviously this has been pretty much retconned in-show, however tbh I doubt this was ever how it’s supposed to work as Zs’Skayr was always portrayed as a special case due to his unique biology]... A failsafe that can be easily overridden if one knows the Omnitrix as intimately as I do […with context from the show this has to be because he had one himself, right? Hell even just in the movie I don’t see how he’d seemingly know so much about the Omnitrix without either hands-on experience or without him already succeeding in his goal].”

“We were a gilded race of warriors. We’d mastered the elements [What does this mean exactly?]- Gods [x1] who grew too strong and destroyed ourselves [This is really interesting to me. Is he saying the aging weakness is caused by too much power? Is he saying that they got so strong that they accidentally screwed up their world? Maybe both?].”
  • Eon: “It's my DNA that will be released from the Omnitrix [Remember this for a bit later]. I am the alien life-form that will soon overwhelm you. You are me, Benjamin.”
  • Ben: “No, you're lying! [The combination of Ben’s confrontational reaction and Eon using the present tense is really notable here. If not for them then I’d say Eon was just talking about Ben turning into him, however with them added it makes it seem like Ben interpreted Eon as saying they were the same person which would make sense considering Eon used the present tense. Let’s not forget that the letters in their names have always been very similar]”
“You will no longer be a simple, helpless child, but a god [x2]- not for mere moments, but for an eternity [As mentioned before, Eon states here that this new body will live forever].”

“Such power… trapped, held slave by a child [So this and a previous thing I said to keep in mind of both seem to imply that Eon’s DNA was already in the Omnitrix the entire time? No clue how that is supposed to have happened]. No longer. I am free!”

“You could have been a god [x3]!”
Click to expand...
huh, so their are some phrases that could potentially indicate that he was always a version of Ben?......huh, never considered a "non human" alternate versions of human characters could exist......huh
 
omegabronic said:
huh, so their are some phrases that could potentially indicate that he was always a version of Ben?......huh, never considered a "non human" alternate versions of human characters could exist......huh
Click to expand...
I guess Eon would be like the Ben 10 equivalent of Spider-Ham or something, being an alternate counterpart with a slightly different name and being a whole different species. IIRC Chronia kinda resembled a ruined Earth as well, which suggests that Chronians could be alternate versions of humans.
 
Also now that I think about it, Ultimate Ben has a couple instances of scaling to UA Eon. UA Eon is generally portrayed as superior but Ultimate Ben isn’t usually portrayed as fodder or anything (aside from I guess the XLR8 moment which clouded my judgment before). This has pretty huge implications as it would mean Clone/Prime Eon would also downscale from UA Eon with the Hands of Armageddon argument, which would in turn mean that the absorption boost Eon got wasn’t that big and all three of them are 2-B/Low 1-C. In fact considering UA Eon is physically healthy, it’s possible that the absorbing Bens plan was less so for their power and mainly to just make himself healthier Darkstar-style. This does make things a little awkward as now three characters are scaling to a single impressive statement (also Clone Eon being 2-B/Low 1-C kinda feels wrong for the story they were trying to tell?), however at the same time these three characters are entirely self-contained, the statement is pretty blatant and Paradox treats Eon’s threat as a big deal so hopefully it should be fine.

EDIT: Tbh thinking about it the “absorbing Bens makes Eon young and healthy which makes him OP” argument is making the most sense to me. Presumably he’s absorbing power only from the human forms, which would mean he somehow went from Tier 5 to at least Tier 2 solely by absorbing other (weak) Tier 5’s. The only way that would make sense in my eyes is if he’s either absorbing their souls (which admittedly would kinda make sense with how mindless the alternate Bens are) or if he’s making himself younger with their power, potentially both. Either way he should still be 2-B/Low 1-C prior to absorbing Ben 10K.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
I guess Eon would be like the Ben 10 equivalent of Spider-Ham or something, being an alternate counterpart with a slightly different name and being a whole different species. IIRC Chronia kinda resembled a ruined Earth as well, which suggests that Chronians could be alternate versions of humans.
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i mean.....Eon himself is very much "human" like in appearance, honestly i wouldn't doubt it
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
In fact considering UA Eon is physically healthy, it’s possible that the absorbing Bens plan was less so for their power and mainly to just make himself healthier Darkstar-style.
Click to expand...
Ghengiroo115 said:
The only way that would make sense in my eyes is if he’s either absorbing their souls
Click to expand...
Wait wait wait wait, if Eon is making himself physically healthy through his absorption then this would have to be life energy absorption, right? Not only do we have the precedent with Darkstar, but it’s also the most logical kind of energy to absorb in this context and is also literally the only thing he could reasonably absorb from a Ben Tennyson. That would mean he’s absorbing souls, which means souls are 2-B/Low 1-C, which would have huge implications for the Alpha Rune and Dagon arc stuff.

I’ve found myself in quite the rabbit hole, huh…
 
Actually wait, him absorbing life energy wouldn’t necessarily mean that energy was 2-B/Low 1-C if it’s actually Eon’s own natural power that makes him that strong. It also might cause some contradictions to have that energy make Eon above the hypertimeline since Legerdomain’s energy would by default scale above him (can’t have more mana than the literal source of it). However at the same time it feels kinda lore-breaking for ordinary prime Eon (and potentially the entire Chronian race) to be a timeline buster. Idk I’m gonna have to think on this.
 
Screenshot_20240519-084850.jpg


 
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So Christien Anholt (Who played Eon in RAT) was born 25th February 1971. I’m not sure when RAT began filming, but assuming anything from 2006-2007 Anholt would be 35-36 during filming. Notably this makes him a similar age to UA’s Ben 10K, which in turn would mean young Eon in RAT is a similar physical age to Eon in UA. This makes me wonder if Eon’s timeline-level strength was actually just because he was making himself younger, as physically he was already basically the same age. Unless going from 36 to 35-36 is supposed to be a significant increase?
 


This is an interesting video, I hadn't considered that Ben took off the Omnitrix at 12-13 years old but it does make sense now.
 
DemonicDude said:
Translate it for me
f6J6l4T.jpeg
Click to expand...
Sigh.

Basically, it is confirmed to us in the secret Saturday crossover that Ben was still using the Omnitrix by the time the SS took place, with Animo mentioning he took 3 years to revive Argost because of Ben still kicking his ass, plus Animo still managed to keep the powers Argost got from Zak Monday even though Argost only found out about it around the end of Secret Saturdays, and we know Ben was around 12-13 because he and Zak have or are very implied to have the same age and Zak was 14 at the very end of the series.

This also is consistent with Alien Swarm and the fact people are acting like Ben didn't take the Omnitrix off so long ago (Ben still tries to use it as reflex when an alien attacks him and Gwen treating him putting back on again as a big deal and throwing away his normal life as if he didn't spend 4-5 years without it).

The video explains it better than I could though, so IDK git gud at Duolingo cause this is the best I could explain it myself.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Spidermonkey

Spidermonkey is the Omnitrix's DNA sample of an Arachnichimp from the planet Aranhaschimmia. Tier: 5-B | 5-B Key: Spidermonkey | Ultimate Spidermonkey Name: Spidermonkey Origin: Ben 10 Gender: Male Age: Unknown Classification: Alien, Arachnichimp Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
At least Class P (Comparable to Four Arms)
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Class P? it's based form or Ultimate form ?
 
some characters have lower LIFTING STRENGTH than they should. (like Ben, Wildmutt, Heatblast, Chamalien). can I change it to At least class M ?
 
NXCHT.66 said:
some characters have lower LIFTING STRENGTH than they should. (like Ben, Wildmutt, Heatblast, Chamalien). can I change it to At least class M ?
Click to expand...
I’d recommend making a CRT.

Also from your other question, the Class P scaling is for Ultimate Spidermonkey and not regular. Regular is Class 5.
 
Greenshifter said:
Also most people should probably upscale from First Form Malware's LS, assuming his class M is warranted.
Click to expand...
I think that’s a mistake. Both Four Arms and Diamondhead are Class K in OS and Feedback is Class K for scaling to Malware. I can maybe see everyone upscaling from him though.
 
Greenshifter said:
Not sure that it isn't an outlier for Ben being able to lift that much specifically.
Click to expand...
i'm pleased if Ben's upgrade didn't work because it's outlier but
if first form Malware is Class M. Why are Heatblasts OS and Four Arms OS still just Class 100 and Class K?





I think these things should elevate them.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Interesting so Matt Wayne says that Lucky Girl is the Anodite form while DJW affirmed it wasn’t, although DJW also kinda acknowledged Lucky Girl as the Anodite form in another ask so I’m kinda confused on what to do here. I’m still extremely confident in them being separate things due to both the numerous amount of scaling issues that come from Lucky Girl being the Anodite form and also the complete lack of acknowledgement of the “losing humanity” thing, however DJW seemingly contradicting himself and Matt Wayne also saying they’re the same thing makes things tricky as far as the eventual CRT is concerned. I suppose I can just Death of the Author this though given how Lucky Girl pretty clearly can’t be the Anodite form in-series.
Click to expand...
It's her anodite form, look at Verdona's OV concept art. Just give her a variable tier. Gwen also outright tells Addwaitya she's much stronger than before so.
 
NXCHT.66 said:
excuse me @Reiner04 @Hellformer @Ghengiroo115 Verdona's speed has not been updated. Can you guys do it?
vsbattles.fandom.com

Verdona

Verdona is the Anodite love interest of Max Tennyson and grandmother of Ben and Gwen. Like all Anodites, Verdona is a free-spirited being. Though sometimes acting more mature and grown-up, she mostly acts like a playful child. Tier: At least 4-B, possibly 4-A Name: Verdona Origin: Ben 10 Gender...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Gwen is stated to be the strongest being in Ben's universe essentially, not on the planet. So you can't scale Verdona to her.
 
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