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Ben 10 - Discrediting the downgrade of 2019 (Accepted)

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Reiner04

Reiner04

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In the Downgrade of 2019 it was proposed that Alien X despite being called as "Greatest power in the universe" don't scale to chrononavigator or chronosapien timebomb, I'll be focusing on the argument and why those arguments are wrong and so should be discredited.

Alien X is the Greatest power in the universe stated 3 times in total.



NOTE: please read the downgrade of 2019 linked above before proceeding to this crt.

Omnipotent is a word that has been used for alien x quite consistently but as we know it's not literal but as an hyperbole for him for following things :-
  • Alien X can do anything (implying to him being best reality wrapper in the series). Source:
  • Alien X holds unlimited, Limitless power (implying to him being greatest power in the universe) aside from being best reality wrapper From DVD's alien database and from cartoon network episode discription. Source:

First Arguement against him being greatest power in the universe: It's referring to them being best reality wrapper, someone who is capable of doing anything (almost) can be said to have greatest power in the universe, it's not raw strength.

Me: Why that is? I mean you are placing all references of "greatest power" by seprate character to their hax? Why it's referring to them being only reality wrapper when their is already a proof that they aren't just invincible in reality wrapping but in raw power as well stated in the above scan as unlimited, limitless power and as it's talking about "power" I don't see a reason to forcefully context it to being reality wrapper and about limitless power? Will one context it to limitless reality wrapping now? And being "greatest power in the universe" has no correlation with reality wrapping in the first place even so I put a scan above to counter this headcanon argument. They even said to be capable of destroying entire universe further proving that they have got pretty high AP to neglect it.

Second argument that when chrononavigator was about to destroy the multiverse and proffesor paradox suggested ben to use chronosapien not alien and hence chronosapien > alien x 🗿: TF with this argument? Why he must suggest alien x when chronosapien is enough? Even in the game Vilgax attack professor paradox stopped ben from using alien x because it was not needed. It Doesn't mean alien X < nullvoid projector as well.


And with all that in mind, Alien X should be equals to chrononavigator or chronosapien timebomb as a greatest power in the universe once again.

NOTE: what changes this crt will lead to will be discussed in seprate thread.

Staff members are bolded in the votes

Agree: @wwereymy235 @Aachintya31 @Hasty12345 @Lovemovies14 @Eseseso @KingTempest @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Wagy @NHTkenshin2 @FinePoint @Firestorm808 @Lord_Farquaad69420

Disagree:

Neutral: @Sus
 
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Well the main point of the 2019 downgrade was that Chrononavigator destroys the multiverse by destabilizing it. However in this scene eon wanted to have the POWER of the chrononavigator and Paradox states the chrononavigator could cause IRREPARABLE damage to timestream and destroy all of time causality, while in the former scene PARADOX STATES THAT THE MULTIVERSE WOULD REPAIR ITSELF IN FEW MINUTES. Comparing the two scenes is irrelevant ,Both are different.
 
Aachintya31 said:
Well the main point of the 2019 downgrade was that Chrononavigator destroys the multiverse by destabilizing it. However in this scene eon wanted to have the POWER of the chrononavigator and Paradox states the chrononavigator could cause IRREPARABLE damage to timestream and destroy all of time causality, while in the former scene PARADOX STATES THAT THE MULTIVERSE WOULD REPAIR ITSELF IN FEW MINUTES. Comparing the two scenes is irrelevant ,Both are different.
Click to expand...
Added
 
Reiner said:
First Arguement against him being greatest power in the universe: It's referring to them being best reality wrapper, someone who is capable of doing anything (almost) can be said to have greatest power in the universe, it's not raw strength.

Me: Why that is? I mean you are placing all references of "greatest power" by seprate character to their hax? Why it's referring to them being only reality wrapper when their is already a proof that they aren't just invincible in reality wrapping but in raw power as well stated in the above scan as unlimited, limitless power and as it's talking about "power" I don't see a reason to forcefully context it to being reality wrapper and about limitless power? Will one context it to limitless reality wrapping now? And being "greatest power in the universe" has no correlation with reality wrapping in the first place even so I put a scan above to counter this headcanon argument. They even said to be capable of destroying entire universe further proving that they have got pretty high AP to neglect it. Forced argument indeed.
Click to expand...
Not really a forced argument. limitless/ultimate/endless power doesn't mean much as that only backs High 3-A and X being able to destroy/create a universe isn't enough as those can still be attributed to a persons abilities, not raw strength. However, I still see your point, and we don't assume the character is reffering to an ability unless it's mentioned, so the statements should be regarding Aliex X's overall power, not just Reality Warping.

So while I agree with you, I disagree with it being a "forced argument".
Reiner said:
Third argument is atomic X is less powerful than chronosapien timebomb and hence Alien X because he have 1/2 power of alien x : where? From where this Statement came? When he said to have half power of celestial sapien? It's just his dna composition that is may very well have 50% similarity with the composition of celestial sapien dna but it's no proof that he have half or even 10% of celestial sapiens power unless you want to scale yourself to apes for having 95 to 98% similar dna composition. It's just random headcanon. Atomic X and Alien X are entirely different species with even single strand of dna not being same so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...
We don't even use this reasoning anymore, so why did you even bring it up? We no longer scale Atomic X to Alien X so this isn't supporting or discrediting anything.

Reiner said:
Third one chrononavigator is over time 2b: It really is not as multiverse itself is adinfinitum with each universe itself being infinite, if it'll destroy the multiverse over time by creating ripples in the fabric of spacetime as shown here, then it'll never be able to destroy entire multiverse and as well as casualties itself with nothing left like stated here, also chrononavigator was stated to cause irreparable Damage to the timestream while the damage that was done by chrononavigator (when was in eon hands) was reparable as it was said by professor paradox that multiverse will restore itself in 2 minutes. Comparing both scenes is irrelevant both are different.
Click to expand...
That doesn't really matter. Since it's not shown to be a wave, it can cause ripples to destroy everything. Even if they keep branching, a the timeline can still effectively still collaspe and the breakdown could happen faster than the timelines branch, as them branching off endlessly doesn't mean they are happening instantly. And the universes being infinite is irrelevent because screwing with time and space can still cause the a universe regardless of size to collaspe. Now this is not to say this is exactly what is happening in Ben 10, this is just me explaining that an overtime act can still screw destroy and infinite size structure depending on the context unless it was a blast, which the chrononavigator clearly wasn't.


Overall, I have no real issue with scaling Alien X the rest of the stuff via statements, and while I don't fully agree with the OPs points, they have reasoning behind them.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Not really a forced argument. limitless/ultimate/endless power doesn't mean much as that only backs High 3-A and X being able to destroy/create a universe isn't enough as those can still be attributed to a persons abilities, not raw strength. However, I still see your point, and we don't assume the character is reffering to an ability unless it's mentioned, so the statements should be regarding Aliex X's overall power, not just Reality Warping.

So while I agree with you, I disagree with it being a "forced argument".

We don't even use this reasoning anymore, so why did you even bring it up? We no longer scale Atomic X to Alien X so this isn't supporting or discrediting anything.


That doesn't really matter. Since it's not shown to be a wave, it can cause ripples to destroy everything. Even if they keep branching, a the timeline can still effectively still collaspe and the breakdown could happen faster than the timelines branch, as them branching off endlessly doesn't mean they are happening instantly. And the universes being infinite is irrelevent because screwing with time and space can still cause the a universe regardless of size to collaspe. Now this is not to say this is exactly what is happening in Ben 10, this is just me explaining that an overtime act can still screw destroy and infinite size structure depending on the context unless it was a blast, which the chrononavigator clearly wasn't.


Overall, I have no real issue with scaling Alien X the rest of the stuff via statements, and while I don't fully agree with the OPs points, they have reasoning behind them.
Click to expand...
I agree with it, so I updated op as per.
 
I find myself agreeing with LordGriffin1000, at least for now.
I will agree that Atomic X probably isn't very relevant.
 
Okey then, Thank you everyone, seems this crt has got enough inputs for changes,
The changes it'll lead to will be addressed by firestorm in his next crt I suppose.

@Firestorm808 this crt can be closed now.
 
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