Beerus vs Sans

[Oblivion00]

Yeah this is a good matchup but Sans should win due to the nature of his attacks.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Sans is faster. He's faster than Frisk who pretty much outran the universe being absorbed by Asriel. NTM, his speed should be immeasurable anyway, for fighting Frisk, who can dodge attacks from people clearly not bound by time.

 

[Xantospoc]

Frisk was back then > Chara on the account of being able to go toe to toe with Asriel. Mind you he also defeated Omega Flowey anyway.

Beerus anyway stomps.

-Nullification and reindirection of energy makes Sans' GasterBlaster ability null. Gravity manipulation works because Chara's effective strength is limited to a kid (who at full strength could 'knock over a tomato'), Beerus lifting strength is at least on class T by scaling with Goku.

The bones would be destroyed by Beerus' aura who has disintegrated small object and has shown to be able to manipulate matter on a planetary level (the purple circle of the egg is also akin to the

His speed is also far superior. Mind you, yes, he reacted to Chara who is 'only' FTL. Beerus is MFTL+ and the AOE of his attacks is muuuuch higher. He could wreck anything in the mountain with a casual ki blast and Sans has only shown he can dodge a few steps away (as Chara lacks real hax until he is fully awoken after the fight). And we know Sans if he is about to die can't really rewind time and save his own bottom

 

[Undylan]

Frisk was back then > Chara on the account of being able to go toe to toe with Asriel. Mind you he also defeated Omega Flowey anyway.

Beerus anyway stomps.

-Nullification and reindirection of energy makes Sans' GasterBlaster ability null. Gravity manipulation works because Chara's effective strength is limited to a kid (who at full strength could 'knock over a tomato'), Beerus lifting strength is at least on class T by scaling with Goku.

The bones would be destroyed by Beerus' aura who has disintegrated small object and has shown to be able to manipulate matter on a planetary level (the purple circle of the egg is also akin to the

His speed is also far superior. Mind you, yes, he reacted to Chara who is 'only' FTL. Beerus is MFTL+ and the AOE of his attacks is muuuuch higher. He could wreck anything in the mountain with a casual ki blast and Sans has only shown he can dodge a few steps away (as Chara lacks real hax until he is fully awoken after the fight). And we know Sans if he is about to die can't really rewind time and save his own bottom

But sans was hurting Chara who was universal level with bones due to KR hax and kept killing chara till chara had to cheat to win.

So sans could hurt beerus and mess around with time till beerus gets tired and lose

 

[Xantospoc]

Also, Beerus does have hax. He can freeze Sans with a look. COnsidering the hax seems to work on a physical plane, where Sans... let's face it, is weak as hell when it comes to physical stats. And while his speed is FTL, it's likely only in short busts, he IS a lazy guy

 

[Xantospoc]

Oh yes... but Chara is

1) Semi-haxless. It's a whole point on him and Frisk. They can dish only physical damage. It's why they can't kill the possessed Dummy (unless it's emotionally tied to the ground enough to bond with a body which is how he died in the Genocide Run)

2) Physically weak. It's just a kid. He can destroy the universe only when fully awoken AKA after Sans. Otherwise he'd have just destroyed the universe and Sans would have been done for due to AoE

3) Chara was attacking with weak weapons with melee range. Not planet bursting attack. Beerus could destroy the planet and Sans would be unable to survive in outer space

4) True, KR would hurt Beerus. Problem is (1) Gaster Blaster are hit by energy manipulation and /or nullification (and good luck for Sans to dodge all those attacks) (2) Destroyed by Beerus' aura due to the bones being... brittle.(they go through durability) and (3) Beerus having an healing factor as shown in Dragon Ball Super to cover the damage. Karmic Retribution is gradual, not all at once. So small injuries which get instantly healed

5) Sans CAN'T manipulate Time. He manipulates Space. He is just smart enough to figure out the main character's time shenigans.

 

[Johtoboy98]

Wasn't this battle decided like days ago...I don't think the decision is gonna change.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Oh yes... but Chara is
1) Semi-haxless. It's a whole point on him and Frisk. They can dish only physical damage. It's why they can't kill the possessed Dummy (unless it's emotionally tied to the ground enough to bond with a body which is how he died in the Genocide Run)

2) Physically weak. It's just a kid. He can destroy the universe only when fully awoken AKA after Sans. Otherwise he'd have just destroyed the universe and Sans would have been done for due to AoE

3) Chara was attacking with weak weapons with melee range. Not planet bursting attack. Beerus could destroy the planet and Sans would be unable to survive in outer space

4) True, KR would hurt Beerus. Problem is (1) Gaster Blaster are hit by energy manipulation and /or nullification (and good luck for Sans to dodge all those attacks) (2) Destroyed by Beerus' aura due to the bones being... brittle.(they go through durability) and (3) Beerus having an healing factor as shown in Dragon Ball Super to cover the damage. Karmic Retribution is gradual, not all at once. So small injuries which get instantly healed

5) Sans CAN'T manipulate Time. He manipulates Space. He is just smart enough to figure out the main character's time shenigans.

1. Semi-haxless in mid-battle, yes. Resetting the universe even after your death is pretty good hax. However, you are treating them like a regular child (which they certainly aren't) as opposed to a beast with unbridled amounts of determination.

2. Physical weakness means absolutely nothing in a genocide run (or the end of almost any run, really). The damage Chara dishes out is immense due to how powerful their soul and killing intent are. If you're trying to imply that Beerus would have even the smallest chance against Chara due to them "being a child", I have some very bad news for you.

3. There is a massive difference between AP and AoE. Chara had melee range, yes, but was still immensely powerful. Chara could only destroy the universe directly after Sans because that was when they fully manifested. They didn't get some kind of insane power boost in the time since then. They were just restrained to possessing Frisk's body. The insane damage numbers they were dishing out still reflect how powerful they were, by that point. Also, not only can Sans teleport (making planet busting kind of pointless), but why assume he can't survive in outer space? He's a skeleton.

4. (1) That's a possibility, but it's not as if the GB's are his only shot. It's also not even surefire that Beerus could redirect them. (2) ...Based on what? Because Sans is brittle? It's not like Chara was exactly slicing the bones to pieces. They were kinda dodging for their life. (3) Beerus is not healing damage to his soul. Assuming he can do that since he has a healing factor is a pretty massive assumption. Yes, KR is gradual, but you act as if it takes hours upon hours to kill you as opposed to several seconds.

5. Yes, he can. Papyrus mentions Sans pranking you "across time and space". He uses space-time manipulating attacks against Chara, not just space manipulating ones. Sans being unable to reset the universe to whenever he likes doesn't mean he's completely devoid of time powers. You're also assuming that even just spatial manipulation wouldn't pose a huge problem to Beerus and be something he could just shrug off.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Frisk was back then > Chara on the account of being able to go toe to toe with Asriel. Mind you he also defeated Omega Flowey anyway.

I just feel the need to clarify this, but...no.

• Frisk never went toe-to-toe with Asriel. Frisk refused to die due to how great their determination was, but they were COMPLTELY unable to hurt Asriel. He was way out of their league.

• Frisk never defeated Omega Flowey. Without any assistance, Frisk could only deal one damage to Flowey. Granted, that's still damage (and still impressive in its own right), but they were unable to do any meaningful amount of harm until the souls intervened. Even after they reduced Flowey to 0 hp, he just laughed and reset, proceeding to murder Frisk several times over. Flowey lost because the souls left his body and messed him up.

 

[Xantospoc]

1. Semi-haxless in mid-battle, yes. Resetting the universe even after your death is pretty good hax. However, you are treating them like a regular child (which they certainly aren't) as opposed to a beast with unbridled amounts of determination.

2. Physical weakness means absolutely nothing in a genocide run (or the end of almost any run, really). The damage Chara dishes out is immense due to how powerful their soul and killing intent are. If you're trying to imply that Beerus would have even the smallest chance against Chara due to them "being a child", I have some very bad news for you.

3. There is a massive difference between AP and AoE. Chara had melee range, yes, but was still immensely powerful. Chara could only destroy the universe directly after Sans because that was when they fully manifested. They didn't get some kind of insane power boost in the time since then. They were just restrained to possessing Frisk's body. The insane damage numbers they were dishing out still reflect how powerful they were, by that point. Also, not only can Sans teleport (making planet busting kind of pointless), but why assume he can't survive in outer space? He's a skeleton.

4. (1) That's a possibility, but it's not as if the GB's are his only shot. It's also not even surefire that Beerus could redirect them. (2) ...Based on what? Because Sans is brittle? It's not like Chara was exactly slicing the bones to pieces. They were kinda dodging for their life. (3) Beerus is not healing damage to his soul. Assuming he can do that since he has a healing factor is a pretty massive assumption. Yes, KR is gradual, but you act as if it takes hours upon hours to kill you as opposed to several seconds.

5. Yes, he can. Papyrus mentions Sans pranking you "across time and space". He uses space-time manipulating attacks against Chara, not just space manipulating ones. Sans being unable to reset the universe to whenever he likes doesn't mean he's completely devoid of time powers. You're also assuming that even just spatial manipulation wouldn't pose a huge problem to Beerus and be something he could just shrug off.

1) Besides Determination, though, Chara lacks hax. He can't freeze the opponent in mid mattle or use matter manipulation on a planetary scale or nullify energy. And Sans lacks

2) They did get an insane boost: they got the real knife and we saw much damage it took ... we experienced it on our skin (all those 9s....). Look how much damage he dealt to Sans and how much he dealt to Asgore and we know (durability wise) Asgore is on another level compared to Sans. Here Beerus is instead strong both soul wise and body wise (Ki draws power from soul, mind and body). Also... against a fully empowered Chara, who can live as a spirit outside conventional time and space, no, Chara murderstomps Beerus. But otherwise Beerus would just blitz them everytime they fight. We have no proof Chara is MFTL+ in battle. Atm we have Beerus bilions time faster, with trilion times superior reflexes. And with a reset, so does Beerus' stamina. Nor can Sans teleport Beerus into an undodgeable attack unless certain circumstances are required (he needs Chara to drop all of his guard and spare him to dunk him on). And again, Beerus' reflexes are so far superior to Sans'

3) Yes... and Beerus has a matching AP and a superior AOE. Also, considering Sans sweats and pants during the battle shows he has limit to his stamina and that he might need to breathe. You could argue he was joking but even after his "regular bone attack" Papyrus pants, I don't think /he/ was joking. Plus we haven't seen Sans move outside the kingdom of monster. To think he can teleport into any point of the universe is a huge stretch (especially because we don't know if he carries his device or has something to do with the Broken Machine we find behind his house. Sadly, Undertale is unknown on that.

4) We have seen him use those skills on far more potent attacks than Sans. Sans is more like Kumagawa: physically weak, but has lots of hax allowing him to bypass defenses. Again, Chara's physical strength was limited to Frisk's tomato-knocking strength. To break bones it takes much more than 'kill them'. Chara can't use his hatred to destroy a non living being until he fully awakens and destroys the universe. And I could argue we have never seen Sans' bones resisting to matter manipulation either, so I can't see how they would survive. An egg isn't the kind of things whcih turns to dust. Nor we know if Gravity Manipulation would work on a physically strong being like Beerus. Lastly, several seconds is a little too much for a guy who can spam planet destroying attacks to kill you. Nor has any attack fo Sans (besides dunking you on) shown to be able to one shot Chara

5) I love Papyrus, but he isn't the most reliable source: remember he thinks that, if you kill every character, that they have gone on a vacation. He knows Sans is doing something about space time, but at which extent he does.... likely very low. Sans himself shows nowhere that he can move across time as well, is only smart enough to figure out what our timeline do. He seems also unable to interact with other timelines (He does joke about you having to tell the other "Sans-es" about how you can't be friends if you get dunked on)

 

[Xantospoc]

Frisk was back then > Chara on the account of being able to go toe to toe with Asriel. Mind you he also defeated Omega Flowey anyway.

I just feel the need to clarify this, but...no.

• Frisk never went toe-to-toe with Asriel. Frisk refused to die due to how great their determination was, but they were COMPLTELY unable to hurt Asriel. He was way out of their league.

• Frisk never defeated Omega Flowey. Without any assistance, Frisk could only deal one damage to Flowey. Granted, that's still damage (and still impressive in its own right), but they were unable to do any meaningful amount of harm until the souls intervened. Even after they reduced Flowey to 0 hp, he just laughed and reset, proceeding to murder Frisk several times over. Flowey lost because the souls left his body and messed him up.

Still Chara never met anyone on par with Omega Flowey and Asriel in terms of speed and power. I think we both can doubt that in a fight our not so dear Fallen Human would win

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. Determination is still pretty solid hax, just not in battle. The point was that Sans does indeed have good hax.

2. Chara already had the real knife and locket when he fought Sans. The room immediately after Sans is Asgore's throne room. Sans can also instantly teleport, so Beerus' speed really doesn't make him "blitz" in this case. There is also no proof Beerus' reflexes are superior to Sans'. Chara only hit Sans when they too broke the rules. Sans even dodged while he was asleep. He also doesn't need Chara to drop all their guard to kill them. He just does so to potentially kill them easier (which he does).

3. Sans obviously cannot teleport outside the barrier because it took SEVEN HUMAN SOULS to break the barrier. That's easily in the multi-universal level of power.

4. Okay, first, you're arguing Beerus can just use matter manipulation on random opponents when he's only ever used it on an egg. Don't you think he would have used this on...almost any opponent if he could? If he shows feats for this later, then he obviously can, but one minor showing on an egg isn't very much. Second, assuming gravity manipulation (and soul manipulation) won't work on Beerus' simply because he's strong isn't really valid. Sans is affecting Chara's soul. That's not really something physical. Third, when has Beerus ever done this in character? Just randomly spam planet destroying attacks at the beginning of the battle? He's kind of prone to messing around, which Sans can very well take full advantage of. Also, like I said, Sans is very easily capable of killing Chara without "dunking on him" while their guard is down. KR does immense amounts of damage. Finally, as I said before, AOE is not even close to the same as AP. Chara, while possessing Frisk, is perfectly capable of universal AP, but lacks the AOE until they fully manifest on their own. Sans' KR is still messing up a universal+ being, so I sincerely doubt it will do as little to Beerus as you say it will.

5. Papyrus being incredibly naive doesn't stop him from knowing anything about his own brother. Sans' resetting Chara and popping them around mid-fight is indeed space-time manipulation. When Sans gives you the key to his room, it does not just appear on your keychain, but was in fact already on your keychain. When passing by Sans on your way to the cave in Snowdin, even while in Frisk's line of sight, he is already at the other side. Once again, just because he isn't on par with people who can reset the universe doesn't mean he lacks the power entirely.

6. I've been the one saying Omega Flowey and Asriel would absolutely ROFLstomp Chara, which is why I didn't want to scale Sans and Chara in Frisk's body to "immeasurable" like OF, Asriel, and endgame Frisk.

7. Saying "Beerus stomps" (or inversely "Sans stomps") is incredibly disingenuous as either party can end the other incredibly easily.


This is a little extra thing, but I just want to point out that both Chara and Frisk tank the destruction of the universe, so the Beerus being more durable thing kinda goes right out the window. Also, unlike Chara, Beerus only gets one try. Not an infinite number of them.

 

[Deathstar786]

From what i know of Beerus he doesn't wait for his opponent to react,He woud likely Stomp you if not kill you before you can do anything.. He have Very Good Hax where he can freeze people just by looking not even ssj2 Vegeta could break that, Beerus can seal people in unknown dimensions, He is already Universal at minimum.. i doubt san would survive Beerus' Flicks.. Beerus is already MFTL+ in both reaction/combat and flying... He have Pressure locks

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

...Yes, Beerus waits for people to react. He's done that ever since he showed up.

Freezing people by looking at them is just alright hax, and something Sans can very easily break due to teleportation and space-time manipulation.

Where was it ever implied Beerus can seal people in pocket realms?

Beerus is not universal at minimum. He's universal at best. Also, as I've already said, Sans killed someone who is universal+, so the "he's universal so he wins" thing doesn't fly.

 

[Xantospoc]

1. Determination is still pretty solid hax, just not in battle. The point was that Sans does indeed have good hax.
2. Chara already had the real knife and locket when he fought Sans. The room immediately after Sans is Asgore's throne room. Sans can also instantly teleport, so Beerus' speed really doesn't make him "blitz" in this case. There is also no proof Beerus' reflexes are superior to Sans'. Chara only hit Sans when they too broke the rules. Sans even dodged while he was asleep. He also doesn't need Chara to drop all their guard to kill them. He just does so to potentially kill them easier (which he does).

3. Sans obviously cannot teleport outside the barrier because it took SEVEN HUMAN SOULS to break the barrier. That's easily in the multi-universal level of power.

4. Okay, first, you're arguing Beerus can just use matter manipulation on random opponents when he's only ever used it on an egg. Don't you think he would have used this on...almost any opponent if he could? If he shows feats for this later, then he obviously can, but one minor showing on an egg isn't very much. Second, assuming gravity manipulation (and soul manipulation) won't work on Beerus' simply because he's strong isn't really valid. Sans is affecting Chara's soul. That's not really something physical. Third, when has Beerus ever done this in character? Just randomly spam planet destroying attacks at the beginning of the battle? He's kind of prone to messing around, which Sans can very well take full advantage of. Also, like I said, Sans is very easily capable of killing Chara without "dunking on him" while their guard is down. KR does immense amounts of damage. Finally, as I said before, AOE is not even close to the same as AP. Chara, while possessing Frisk, is perfectly capable of universal AP, but lacks the AOE until they fully manifest on their own. Sans' KR is still messing up a universal+ being, so I sincerely doubt it will do as little to Beerus as you say it will.

5. Papyrus being incredibly naive doesn't stop him from knowing anything about his own brother. Sans' resetting Chara and popping them around mid-fight is indeed space-time manipulation. When Sans gives you the key to his room, it does not just appear on your keychain, but was in fact already on your keychain. When passing by Sans on your way to the cave in Snowdin, even while in Frisk's line of sight, he is already at the other side. Once again, just because he isn't on par with people who can reset the universe doesn't mean he lacks the power entirely.

6. I've been the one saying Omega Flowey and Asriel would absolutely ROFLstomp Chara, which is why I didn't want to scale Sans and Chara in Frisk's body to "immeasurable" like OF, Asriel, and endgame Frisk.

7. Saying "Beerus stomps" (or inversely "Sans stomps") is incredibly disingenuous as either party can end the other incredibly easily.


This is a little extra thing, but I just want to point out that both Chara and Frisk tank the destruction of the universe, so the Beerus being more durable thing kinda goes right out the window. Also, unlike Chara, Beerus only gets one try. Not an infinite number of them.

1) Yes

2) Uh... weird. Still again look the damage is different. Are you telling me Sans > Asgore in durability? He got an insane boost and his LOVE maxed out. Secondly You are telling me that Sans' reflexes are above a trilion time the speed of light. Now this is something I don't believe and you have no proof about it. It only means Sans can't dodge two FTL attacks at once. Why shouldn't Beerus 'break the rulesì as well?

3) Oh yes. Proof that he can teleport anywhere else in the universe when he has no knowledge about it then? THere are odds he can teleport in a blackhole on inside a star. Beerus has the durability to likely withstand such a mistake. Sans? Not so much. Heck just going to Venus, Sans would be crushed by gravity.

4) It's funny that you are saying that Beerus can't use matter manipulation when he has done so (just not in battle but it seems more like because he didn't need it) but then promptly say Sans can do it . Why can't Beerus just blast the bones then? Ranged attack to counter Ranged attacks. ANd considering that he has hurt Gohan, Piccolo and many others with a Kai, yes, he has and can. He would spend the beginning dodging. something he has shown to do. As soon as Sans would begin pissing him off with his 'cheating' he would destroy the planet. Also, KR takes a whole minute and a half to kill Chara. ENough for Beerus to murder him

5) Yes, it does. Papyrus even thinks he has to feed the pet rock. It's likely he knows very little of how and what Sans does.

6) Actually Beerus isn't 'universal at best'. He has shown he can destroy the whole Macroverse of Dragonball with his punches ALONE (episode 14 - around 21:35, author statement "They exchange punches with the power of destroying the universe", Beerus was still holding back). I am not saying 'Beerus is universe level, so he stomps'. I am saying 'Beerus is faster and has a wider range of attacks than Chara who is only 'slashy slashy' (durins Sans' fight, of course)

7) Sans has to light up an hand and move his arm to 'time-space manipulate' (which again, doesn't really shows, and if he does, it's very limited). Being Frozen wouldn't help.

8) I think he mixed up feats. He is referring to how Elder Kai was sealed in the Z sword and how Whis claimed that in the curent training if Goku and Vegeta fall would end in an unescapable dimension.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. Indeed.

2. Actually, the damage animation is exactly the same. The curved, red slice is used for all of them. Sans is not > Asgore in terms of durability. Sans > Asgore in terms of determination. Teleportation makes his speed kind of irrelevant, in this case.

3. Sans very likely has knowledge about the rest of the universe. He is apparently a scientist who knows more than he lets on, after all. Also, if we're talking about real black holes, Beerus would be instantly killed inside of one, whereas Sans would have a chance due to gravity manipulation. Also, as for Venus, again, gravity manipulation. There's also the fact that it's not in character for Beerus to simply blow up a planet at the start of a fight. Finally, if we're going the route of what they could do when they're bloodlusted, couldn't Sans just like...teleport a bone inside Beerus and kill him instantly with insane amounts of KR?

4. I never said Beerus can't manipulate matter. I said he did so on an egg, then never did it against any enemy ever. I don't recall saying Sans can manipulate matter. KR takes a minute and a half to kill Chara (who is universal+, btw), but it speeds up with every hit. It would take a minute and a half to kill Beerus assuming Sans hit him a single time.

5. The pet rock is not Sans, though. Papyrus is incredibly naive, but that does not mean that he would incorrectly assume Sans can travel across time and space after seeing him travel across time and space.

6. That is universal, at best. High universal, but still universal. To go past that, Beerus would have to destroy the entire fabric of space-time, annihilating every moment throughout history in a single shot. Yes, Beerus has a wider range than restricted Chara, but that does not instantly guarantee a win. Most of the opponents Chara murdered had a significantly wider range than they did.

7. He doesn't, actually. He repeatedly does it by flashing his eye, and when you talk to him in Snowdin, he does nothing at all and still disappears.

8. That would make sense.

 

[Xantospoc]

2) Sans > Asgore in terms of determination? No proof on that. Neither has 'determination' (unless we buy in the theories Sans is a human). Thing is Sans is as brittle as child (I think that even Normal Frisk could kill him if he were EVER to land a blow)

3) I said 'If Sans pisses him off enough with his cheating'. A thing we know Sans would do. ANd Beerus is a worse rage quitter than anyone who fought Sans. Considering Sans isn't giving a fair battle I can see Beerus getting mad and destroying the planet. And still Sans has dodged (very casually) FTL attacks. Doesn't make him able to dodge MFTL+ attacks. Yes teleport makes TRAVEL speed indifferent, not reaction/movement speed. ANd in most of those cases, Sans is likely to suffocate (he does pant and... sweats somehow, I can't see why he doesn't breathe.... skeleton anatomy is weeeeird)

4) And on a planet. If you see he uses the same technique: tap, purple circle. I think he just.... never wanted to use it. He never killed an opponent in combat, only in the aftermath of his planetary destruction. Still Beerus could (1) blast every bone around and it's unlikely they'd get past his potenyc and (2) reindirect the gasterblaster's attack. Due to the lack of potency those attacks have (1 damage... per frame, but still 1 damage.. thank god Papyrus or Asgore haven't learnt this trick)

5) Did he ever see him doing that? I am not sure. Sans loves Papyrus but he seems to leave him out on a looot of things. And Even then, Beerus knows of people who can manipulate space-time (Whis). I know Whis >> Beerus, but he still has some knowledge of how these things work. I am just saying that Sans' powers aren't something new.

6) Chara has killed more wider ranger people .... but they had no durability against his hax, besides Undyne who... really didn't have too many wide powers besides throwing spears. It's like Beerus can solo Narutoverse despite they are more varied. They aren't equal. I am just saying here Beerus has much more than just try to slash at Sans. He can even make 'clones' of himself to give him more trouble. Even Assuming that they have one fraction of his power, one fraction is enough to end Sans. One wall level Punch is 'enough' to kill Sans... if it ever lands. ... ever.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2. I don't mean Determination the power. I mean he was quite literally far more determined to kill you.

3. Yeah, Sans pants and sweats for dramatic effect, but as Papyrus demonstrated, his head could talk while no longer connected to his body. Monsters are made of magic, so it's very possible many don't need to breathe. Also, the teleportation was still very useful mid battle, so I'm not seeing why it's going to be a complete non-factor against Beerus.

4. Yes, one damage per frame, but the damage happens so quickly that it accumulates almost instantly. Remember, it doesn't matter what your defense value is, as Sans still hurts you.

5. Presumably so. They've likely been together for around 20 years by the time you meet them (if Papyrus' Undernet name is any indication), so presumably it's not something Sans never uses, just something he never explains. I'm also not trying to say that Beerus wouldn't know how to combat Sans because his powers are new, but that he'd specifically have trouble due to powers he doesn't have a direct countermeasure for.

6. Yes, but Chara still casually killed them all in a single strike. Only Undyne held out, and that's presumably due to her tremendous will (and "all hearts beating together as one" within her), which allowed her to combat an immensely powerful character. Yes, a single wall level punch could kill Sans, but as you said, that's assuming it ever lands. He's shown to be incredibly savy, which is also why I believe this is such a difficult fight for both combatants. Remember, the wall level punch wouldn't instantly kill Sans. Chara sliced him so hard that he took 9,999,999 damage (which is enough to kill Undyne the Undying), and Sans still remained alive for around a minute afterwards, even talking and moving around. Finally, I'd say it's also important to remember that Sans isn't strictly limited to "stabby stabby" opponents, either. Even Flowey admits that Sans was the cause of many of his resets before Frisk came along.

 

[Xantospoc]

2) That form of determination doesn't put Sans physically above Asgore to tank an attack

3) A human head can do the same for a few second, and anyway Papyrus died shortly after. Also, it matters mostly because Sans won't survive the first attack as he can't react to it. Unless Beerus feels like giving him a chance. Admittedly I have trouble picturing how a fight against Sans would be due to the turn based combat of Undertale, but I see Beerus being much faster than him in everything unless the fight begins with them dozens of planets away

4) It matters for Sans to land an attack... which I doubt he can unless he offers Beerus to go to grillsby and dunk him there.

5) I know, between 15 and 24.

6) This because his potency and speed was superior (a bit like how, again, characters from Dragonball solo Naruto). Usually he kills them before they can attack (I think only Sans attacks first in the entire game). Also, Chara Slashed him. Beerus would blow him up. And I remember, but we never had a 'proper fight' with base Flowey to gauge his power. And when they later 'fought' (AKA when Flowey took his soul) he was in a semi-Omega form and took him by surprise. So we can't say how strong Sans is based on Flowey. Lastly, considering Flowey said 'I did everything' it's likely he too found a way to kill Sans

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2. Not saying it does. I'm saying that someone more willing to kill you and survive long enough to do so is likely going to be trying far harder than someone you catch off guard.

3. Severed heads can remain "alive" for several seconds after coming off. They cannot speak. That is a massive difference. Again, as I've said, Sans has been shown to be incredibly capable of casually dodging whatever you throw at him when his guard is up. Beerus having better direct speed feats does not automatically mean he's faster (and, as I said, I dislike scaling Sans' speed because I feel like him being "immeasurable" doesn't make any sense). The only time Chara hit Sans is when they too broke the rules (which is quite literally breaking the laws of reality), which caught him off guard. Trying to move while he was nearly asleep still resulted in him warping them back into place, and attacking him after he'd fallen asleep still resulted in him dodging.

4. I genuinely think that teleportation and spatial manipulation is going to make that a lot easier than you're making it out to be. However, the image of Beerus and Sans at Grillby's is hilarious.

6. Flowey, like anyone else, obviously gets stronger the more he kills. I'm referring to when he explicitly mentioned Sans being the cause of many of his resets (I'll try and find a screen cap but getting particular dialogue is hard), which implies Sans killed him numerous times. Considering Sans only fights someone who's "sinned" quite a lot, he would only fight Flowey after he'd become exceptionally strong. Much like Chara, Flowey would likely have to learn from his mistakes to kill Sans, especially if he mentioned resetting multiple times. In a battle like this, Sans' opponent only has one shot, which makes things decidedly more difficult against a skeleton who cheats the laws of reality.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Found some of the dialogue. Apparently Flowey says that Sans "caused more than his fair share of resets", which would indeed imply Sans killed him multiple times.

 

[Xantospoc]

2) If that were so, he'd have kept attacking,

3) Well, Papyrus can talk despite having no vocal cords so..... I am scaling Sans as FTL+ in terms of reaction speed and short bursts. But that wouldn't put him MFTL+ which Beerus IS and he is allowed to spam attacks.

4) Chara is more destructive than Beerus. However, he is less skilled in combat when it comes to 'dodging'/blocking/shooting while chara is a demonic hellbend child who could kill anyone with a casual slash. Again, Chara had no way to defend himself from the bones and the gasterblaster. Beerus can shoot them and/or nullify them (the blasters). Also thanks. I too find it hilarious.

6) Yes, but until he got Omega, I doubt that Flowey would be ANYWHERE on the universe level scale without Reset.Also, as I said, we never had a good idea of how Flowey fights. Every time we see him spamming bullets in a perfect circle, but besides that we never had a proper fight with him at base to gauge his power. We know that, by the time we fought him, he couldn't have killed Asgore or Torierl, making him potentially the fourth strongest monster in the underground, I gauge (base) Flowey at his prime at city+ at best by scaling from Tsunderplane's aerial strike.

 

[Deathstar786]

...Yes, Beerus waits for people to react. He's done that ever since he showed up.
Freezing people by looking at them is just alright hax, and something Sans can very easily break due to teleportation and space-time manipulation.

Where was it ever implied Beerus can seal people in pocket realms?

Beerus is not universal at minimum. He's universal at best. Also, as I've already said, Sans killed someone who is universal+, so the "he's universal so he wins" thing doesn't fly.

Do you watch DBZ? I don't think so.. He is the one who sealed Elder kai for 75 million years Said by Elder kai in DBZ himself and Confirmed By Akira as well. and if it is death battle sure Beerus Blitzes.. teleportation only helps when you can think and react faster than a blood lusted Beerus (Again if it's a Death Battle)... According to you he is universal at best lmfao.. You.admin suck and pretty much this site's ranking system too...Beerus accidentally (while being suppressed) was destroying Universe+Hell and Heaven/After Life+Kaioshin Realm (En Entire Macrocosm, not sure of demon realm).. sure he is Universal at best according to this site who like to downplay lmfao...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2. I am not saying that being struck didn't incapacitate him, but it sure as hell didn't make him unable to move. Just unable to continue fighting. However, remember, this was after an attack that could fell any other boss in the game, as well.

3. I would not put Sans regular movement speed at MFTL+. I would certainly put his teleportation speed at MFTL+, and he's shown to be perfectly capable of attacking instantly after doing so.

4. I would definitely agree that Chara is less skilled, mainly due to being a child and not having the same kind of training as Beerus. However, this is not to say they lack a significant amount of skill in the first place, which makes me think that if attacking Sans' own attacks was a valid option, they would have done so more eagerly.

6. I also highly doubt base Flowey would have universal AP, but what I am saying is he's a far more versatile character than Chara, yet he too had immense difficulty dealing with Sans.

Also, this is more an extra thing, but do you feel city level is accurate for characters vastly superior to Tsunderplane and its air strikes? I was initially thinking city block, but I felt that may have been a bit low, and would like some input.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Do you watch DBZ? I don't think so.. He is the one who sealed Elder kai for 75 million years Said by Elder kai in DBZ himself and Confirmed By Akira as well. and if it is death battle sure Beerus Blitzes.. teleportation only helps when you can think and react faster than a blood lusted Beerus (Again if it's a Death Battle)... According to you he is universal at best lmfao.. You.admin suck and pretty much this site's ranking system too...Beerus accidentally (while being suppressed) was destroying Universe+Hell and Heaven/After Life+Kaioshin Realm (En Entire Macrocosm, not sure of demon realm).. sure he is Universal at best according to this site who like to downplay lmfao...

I've watched DBZ since I was seven, bro. Try again. Beerus never sealed Elder Kai in DBZ. That was something Toriyama mentioned years after the fact that we have no way of gauging or knowing how it's done, but he apparently used an artifact (i.e. a sword), and has never demonstrated the ability to do so on the fly.

I believe you mean "If Beerus is bloodlusted".

It seems far less that we're downplaying and more that you simply don't understand how tier work, here. In order to surpass Universal/High Universal and go into Universal+, you would need to destroy the entirety of a space-time continuum, which Beerus has yet to do or even be hyped to do. Destroying the matter of multiple realms is still only in the Universal/High Universal spectrum.

You have contributed very little to this than wanking and accusing others of downplaying, which I would suggest stopping if you do not wish to be blocked.

 

[Deathstar786]

Do you watch DBZ? I don't think so.. He is the one who sealed Elder kai for 75 million years Said by Elder kai in DBZ himself and Confirmed By Akira as well. and if it is death battle sure Beerus Blitzes.. teleportation only helps when you can think and react faster than a blood lusted Beerus (Again if it's a Death Battle)... According to you he is universal at best lmfao.. You.admin suck and pretty much this site's ranking system too...Beerus accidentally (while being suppressed) was destroying Universe+Hell and Heaven/After Life+Kaioshin Realm (En Entire Macrocosm, not sure of demon realm).. sure he is Universal at best according to this site who like to downplay lmfao...

I've watched DBZ since I was seven, bro. Try again. Beerus never sealed Elder Kai in DBZ. That was something Toriyama mentioned years after the fact that we have no way of gauging or knowing how it's done, but he apparently used an artifact (i.e. a sword), and has never demonstrated the ability to do so on the fly.
I believe you mean "If Beerus is bloodlusted".

It seems far less that we're downplaying and more that you simply don't understand how tier work, here. In order to surpass Universal/High Universal and go into Universal+, you would need to destroy the entirety of a space-time continuum, which Beerus has yet to do or even be hyped to do. Destroying the matter of multiple realms is still only in the Universal/High Universal spectrum.

You have contributed very little to this than wanking and accusing others of downplaying, which I would suggest stopping if you do not wish to be blocked.

LIke i care about dilusional Admins here that wanked Hades Profile to death OMFG

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

All of your dialogue has really just become "Beerus wins everything and is the strongest because I say so and you're wrong", which is not valuable advice, at all. Please, if you would like to stay and contribute, I'd be very glad, but if it's just going to be more of this, let me know.

 

[Xantospoc]

2. I am not saying that being struck didn't incapacitate him, but it sure as hell didn't make him unable to move. Just unable to continue fighting. However, remember, this was after an attack that could fell any other boss in the game, as well.
3. I would not put Sans regular movement speed at MFTL+. I would certainly put his teleportation speed at MFTL+, and he's shown to be perfectly capable of attacking instantly after doing so.

4. I would definitely agree that Chara is less skilled, mainly due to being a child and not having the same kind of training as Beerus. However, this is not to say they lack a significant amount of skill in the first place, which makes me think that if attacking Sans' own attacks was a valid option, they would have done so more eagerly.

6. I also highly doubt base Flowey would have universal AP, but what I am saying is he's a far more versatile character than Chara, yet he too had immense difficulty dealing with Sans.

Also, this is more an extra thing, but do you feel city level is accurate for characters vastly superior to Tsunderplane and its air strikes? I was initially thinking city block, but I felt that may have been a bit low, and would like some input.

2) Yes, but let's face it, Beerus would easily oneshot the Underworld besides the God Tiers

3) I put it at instantaneous (because teleportingi is instant) but even then a good player can potentially dodge his attacks. Doesn't put Chara at "instantaneous" reaction speed though, we stil put him at best at FTL+ (and I think it's a stretch unless we get the quadrillion times FTL)

4) Chara seems more interested in killing living beings than things. I don't think eh can 'hate' an object enough to kill it. Well, besides chocolate.The probem here is that neither Frisk or Chara can interact with energy beams/attacks, so they can only dodge. Beerus can

6) This is true. But we don't know how the fight went (if flowey was able to shoot, giving Sans good reaction speed by dealing with bullet hells situation and the likes). This makes me iffy.

[And I think so. The girl summons A LOT of planes to attack. Also,I think Papyrus > Undyne, but lacks the bloodlust the fishwoman has.)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2. Oh without a doubt. I'm simply saying that just as with a real person, Sans being determined do put an end to your rampage made him more resilient than if you had simply caught him completely off guard.

3. Very true, though the player/Chara does have the canon advantage of, in certain cases, knowing what Sans is going to do before he does it.

4. This is true, though I would assume in this case, the bones are extensions of Sans. There is also the matter of Chara hating quite literally everything, as in the genocide ending, their hatred for existence itself is so great that they destroy the timeline.

6. Indeed, I am merely bringing it up as a possibility, as all we know is that Sans and (a presumably high LOVE) Flowey fought, and Sans came out on top a pretty good number of times.

[Appreciated. This will help with the Undyne, Papyrus, Mettaton profiles etc.]

 

[Xantospoc]

2) Point taken.

3) On the other side Beerus has the advantage of processing much faster than Chara/the player does. So it's offeset.

4) This is .... difficult to say. Papyrus showed he kept the bones in a closet and even had his special attack stolen so it seems they are more weapons they either create magically or have on their own. As of Chara, he destroyed the timeline because ... well he grew bored. He had killed everything he could kill. So of course he'd destroy that world to pass onto the other one

6) It's a notable feat in game especially as Flowey is warning one who isn't strong enough to beat Sans (I am not sure how much LOVE can a player gather without getting into a straight genocide run, I think 18 at best as Undyne the Undying is 2 level worth of LOVE)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

3. Exactly, which is why I think both parties would find it so difficult to make contact with one another.

4. I've always gone the route of "attacks are physical but magically enhanced" due to Papyrus showing that attacks used are indeed physical objects and events occurring, but having properties that affect the soul. This can be more clearly seen with things like blue attack, where it appears the bone itself isn't blue, but enhanced with a blue aura (all physical bones you see in Papyrus' house look normal, but some bones with special properties appear blue in combate).

As you've said about Chara, that is indeed true. Chara could not make it to the surface and kill humans directly (due to Asgore never revealing the six human souls), so they simply opted to destroy the entire timeline and move onto the next. However, I do feel this does a good job showing that, unlike Asriel seemed to think, Chara's hatred is blind. They do not so much need an object or person to loathe as opposed to simply having a seething hatred for everything.

6. Depends. If you mean "without getting Sans to appear and making the path purely genocide", I'm fairly certain you can back out during the Mettaton Neo fight, which would mean the max is 19 once you enter the throne room, whereas after killing Sans, your lv jumps to 20.

 

[Xantospoc]

3-4) can't seem to disagree

5) I think more for 'everyone' than everything. Maybe the timeline destruction was the only way to kill 'you', the player, the last thing left alive. But I am only speculating.

6) Doesn't it rise with Mettaton NEO's death?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

5. That is a definite possibility, and I too am only speculating, but hatred still remains the one of the primary sources for Chara's power.

6. Yes, but I thought you were forced to kill Mettaton NEO. It just bumps you off genocide if you don't kill him with a solid enough shot. However, it's extremely possible I'm misremembering, so i can always check.

 

[Xantospoc]

I so far picture the fight as this.

Sans will be allowed the first attack, after which he wil make an attack akin to how he open the dances with Chara. Beerus should be able to react to it. Now the point is, can Beerus close distance and hit Sans immediately? He might try to either reindirect/nullify the blasts and dodge the bones (it's how he usually goes, he starts his fight by dodging). Then if he ever comes to decide to attack he could

1) Reindirect the gasterblasts (Sans might dodge)

2) Physical attacks (easiest for Sans to dodge)

3) Kiai (aka a literally invisible ki wave which seemed omni-directional against the Z-fighters. Due to being invisible, I see this being the hardest for Sans to dodge)

We know that he usually is in combat 'strong enough to overwhelm', but never kills his enemy (he has killed peoplle by blowing up planets, but never gone to personally murder them).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can definitely see the Kiai being by far the hardest for Sans to dodg, though not impossible due to his teleportation. A deciding factor here would be if he lost his cool due to being unable to pinpoint the exact location of his attack or remained calm and reacted as normal.

Indeed, it is rare we see Beerus directly go for a kill, which I feel could potentially be his downfall. Contact with anything Sans throws at him will result in quite a bit more than a light tap on the shoulder, though Beerus has always seemed to lose his cool more over trivial matters than mid fight, which in this case could actually be detrimental, as holding back from going all out after he's been tagged could be trouble.

 

[Xantospoc]

I want to point out DBZ fighters have learnt to fight both out of instict (Whis, even though Beerus hasn't fully mastered this skill) and using other senses besides sight (even the smallest air movements, as the fight against Yakon showed, is important). Beerus is at the moment the third most skilled fighter (besides Whis and Vados) so...

Also don't understimate a tap on the shoulder. Remember Yamcha. Jokes aside, this is assuming the hit lands. During a fight, Beerus while holds back doesn't 'play around'. He acts like a skilled martial artist, calmly and expertly dodging (except a few gag moments at the beginning of his fight with SSJG Goku). This is Beerus' main advantage over Sans.

Also, if Sans make a joke, it's very likely Beerus will destroy the planet

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is true, though I'm not entirely sure Beerus would be able to feel the gradual destruction of his soul. However, assuming this affects his ki in some way, it's a definite possibility.

Very true, as while a single hit from Sans could be lethal, Beerus has a significant edge in skill. The main issue is that even the tiniest slip up or gap in defense could allow Sans a hit, as he's willing to exploit whatever opportunity he's given, and Beerus is only getting one chance. The question is if he'll let that happen.

Oh he totally would. Though if Sans is fighting, he's gone far past the point of cracking jokes (unless you cound dunking on Chara/Frisk as a joke).

 

[Xantospoc]

Well, souls do exist and they have ki, so I think it would. There are also part of the Ascension of the God Ritual where Whis explained it was important also to put the 'heart' into the new SSJG. I think it's also a moaning of soul, considering heart can't be literal. Helps that Ki can also mean "spirit energy".

I think another key factor is the battlefield. If they fight inside the barrier Sans is screwed as if Beerus decides he has enough can destroy anything inside it with ease and Sans' teleporting range won't save him .THis is of course without counting that Beerus has with his own area scorched the atmosphere and also the infamous shockwave feat (if Beerus can send shockaves throughout the universe, I think Sans has nowhere to run)

Sans CAN win, but people here have been speaking as if he casually stomps, which was why I began alittle more agressive

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Then it's very likely Beerus would be alerted to the harm being done to his soul. I do question if this would have an effect on his ki itself, though.

Yeah, the barrier would absolutely screw Sans over hardcore, though I probably should have listed like..."post broken barrier" in the OP, or something. The shockwaves would be incredibly dangerous yes, but I don't think Sans couldn't avoid them. However, there was that matter of the shockwaves getting stronger the farther out they go (because reasons), which would force Sans to stay closer to Beerus in order to avoid being killed.

While I do think that Sans has a higher chance of taking the victory than Beerus does (albeit not by a massive amount), I would vehemently disagree with anyone who says he stomps. I made this battle entirely for the reason that it was a tough battle between two very different combatants with slightly similar personality quirks that could go either way, as I'm heavily against making battles where my opinion is already embedded into one side.

 

[Xantospoc]

Which isn't easy as DBZ characters are as strong as you can't get without having hax.

I have some issues as Sans hasn't shown such a crazy level of reaction speed. The shockwaves seemed to have crossed the universe in seconds (16 seconds) which puts them at quadrillion times the speed of light (not too far from Asriel's hypergoner, who ate a universe in 10 seconds (just checked with a video https://youtu.be/SgiHl2kpMis?t=589 Asriel begins at 9:49 and ends at 10:00).

I see Beerus winning roughly 6.5 times out of 10, mostly because I can't fully picture how Sans can fight in a real time fight than a turn based battle. I wish the match would be put into 'inconclusive' rather than straight up victories for Sans though