Bayonetta's Witch Time

[Golden_Void]

That's exactly my point, but according to you she could use witch time to affect both realms at once, which is why she has multi-dimensional range for witch time.

You also can't support her using witch time in a scene where she clearly doesn't, just because it makes sense. That's not how this works.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Which she can, you conveniently ignored the part where she uses Witch Time in Purgatorio while Witch Time is active in the real world multiple times, hell, in the scene where she drew on Luka with makeup she used Witch Time on the real world FROM Paradiso

Its called Occam's Razor. What makes more sense?

(a) Luka, while carrying a small child in his arms in the middle of a thunderstorm over the ocean while dangling out of a helicopter, decided that even though he started quickly, he should just take his time with the last ten feet of rope and go up about one foot of rope every minute.

(b) Bayonetta, who has demonstrated the ability to slow the real world while she's in Purgatorio, slowed the real world down during her fight, defeated Saipentia, left Purgatorio, got into the helicopter, and deactivated Witch Time to greet Luka when he got into the Helicopter.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

Which she can, you conveniently ignored the part where she uses Witch Time in Purgatorio while Witch Time is active in the real world multiple times, hell, in the scene where she drew on Luka with makeup she used Witch Time on the real world FROM Paradiso

Using Witch Time on two separate occasions does not mean that the ability itself is able to affect two different dimensions simultaneously.

It only means that the Witch Time was applied on a single dimension, and the ability was applied at a different time in Purgatory, which is why two separate dimensions are affected by said ability here.

Regarding this quote here.

"Luka, while carrying a small child in his arms in the middle of a thunderstorm over the ocean while dangling out of a helicopter, decided that even though he started quickly, he should just take his time with the last ten feet of rope and go up about one foot of rope every minute."

This was the scene with Bayonetta and the thunderstorm, correct? I do not think that Witch Time was active in that scene, as the environment outside acted normally, and Bayonetta wasn't shown to have activated Witch Time in that instance yet.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Which she can, you conveniently ignored the part where she uses Witch Time in Purgatorio while Witch Time is active in the real world multiple times"

That's just supporting witch time not being multi-dimensional.

"in the scene where she drew on Luka with makeup she used Witch Time on the real world FROM Paradiso"

Like I showed earlier, you can physically interact with TRW from Paradiso, but like you and me both agreed on, she activated witch time once per dimension.

And no she didn't. (https://youtu.be/9LoKV8HK5kc?t=34s)

She drew on Luka's face from Paradiso, then trolled him by materializing back in TRW while he wasn't looking, witch time wasn't involved.

 

[Golden_Void]

Its called Occam's Razor. What makes more sense?

(a) Luka, while carrying a small child in his arms in the middle of a thunderstorm over the ocean while dangling out of a helicopter, decided that even though he started quickly, he should just take his time with the last ten feet of rope and go up about one foot of rope every minute.

(b) Bayonetta, who has demonstrated the ability to slow the real world while she's in Purgatorio, slowed the real world down during her fight, defeated Saipentia, left Purgatorio, got into the helicopter, and deactivated Witch Time to greet Luka when he got into the Helicopter.

False dilemma fallacy, you may have presented two choices, but those aren't the only options. Nobody suggested A, and B damn sure isn't supported by the game.

Try again.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Given the scenario those ARE the only two options

 

[ShieldsPlus]

Given the scenario those ARE the only two optio

Unless the game itself makes an alternative choice regarding the matter.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Which it doesnt

 

[Golden_Void]

I can think of at least three more.

(c) PIS

(d) speed (requires suspension of disbelief, which at this point is reasonable)

(e) outlier to the common procedures of the game

 

[WeeklyBattles]

None of which are legitimate

 

[Golden_Void]

Right, because only the suggestion that supports your argument instead of the suggestions that are actually plausible and make sense with what's shown is correct.

Fact: Witch Time isn't used at all during the Serpientia fight

Legitimate arguments:

Time slow was clearly used, despite it clearly not being used, as Bayonetta possesses no other time slowing ability, and it would make sense.

Ilegitimate arguments

Bayo was simply fast enough to beat her opponent and Luka to the helicopter

The situation is foolish

The situation is legit, but it doesn't fit into the many times we do see Bayo use witch time

Luka spent minutes on a helicopter zipline (said no one, ever)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

None of those are at all plausable as none of them make any sense, the only logical explanation is that she used Witch Time on the real world, something she has demonstrated the capability and willingness to do several times over

 

[Golden_Void]

>Trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense in the first place

Weekly......

How could she use something she's clearly shown not using? The word you are looking for is impossible.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

How could she not when she's clearly shown to be capable of and willing to do so?

 

[Golden_Void]

Because she didn't use it.

If Trunks cuts Buu in half with his sword, we're not going to assume he used destructo disc when we clearly didn't see him use it.

You're arguing in circles ad nauseum trying to convince me that something that did not happen, happened. I'm never going to budge on this.

 

[Omahariptic]

I agree with Rice.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Occam's Razor Rice, Occam's Razor

 

[ShieldsPlus]

Occam's Razor Rice, Occam's Razor

Only after the boss battle was completed in that scenario when Bayonetta activated Witch Time and slowed time enough for her to climb up to the helicopter.

Luka was just watching from above in that helicopter.

That is what the game shows us anyways.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm honestly inclined to agree with Weekly on this one.

You clearly see her using magic as she's riding her way up back to the helicopter.

It's unreasonable to assume that any of the options UMR are more plausible than the most blatant one.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except he wasnt in the helicopter until AFTER Bayonetta beat Saipentia. That would mean he was literally hanging over the ocean for a solid 10 minutes for no reason and then decided to climb up conveniently right after Bayo beat Sapientia

 

[Golden_Void]

Which states the answer with the least amount of assumptions is the best choice.

Stating she used WT when she clearly didn't doesn't even make it to the principle.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Khristis

Luka was clearly still rappelling up to the helicopter when he saw Bayonetta sitting inside.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

I'm honestly inclined to agree with Weekly on this one.
You clearly see her using magic as she's riding her way up back to the helicopter.

It's unreasonable to assume that any of the options UMR are more plausible than the most blatant one.

Only at 9:52 in the video is Witch Time activated, however.

This is after the boss fight has been completed btw.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@UMR Literally all of the other reasons involve Luka hanging out of a helicopter for 10 minutes for no reason whatsoever, the only thing that makes sense is that she used Witch Time

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Only at 9:52 in the video is Witch Time activated, however.

This is after the boss fight has been completed btw.

Thats literally her dispelling Witch Time

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm honestly inclined to agree with Weekly on this one.
You clearly see her using magic as she's riding her way up back to the helicopter.

It's unreasonable to assume that any of the options UMR are more plausible than the most blatant one.

Already addressed that. That's her using her magic to escape from Purgatorio.

Here is the same effect when she's going in Purgatorio, evidenced by Luka not being instantly slowed down as she activates it, and Bayonetta being gone from sight when he looks down.

Beginning magic portal to Purgatorio

End portal of her escaping it

There is no witch time used. Also to suggest witch time was used as soon as she finished fighting would also suggest that Luka would already be inside of the helicopter by that time.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know enough about Bayonetta to be of much use here, but I have been told that there are serious problems in this thread.

Can somebody please summarise what is being debated here, the consequences it would have on statistics, and which members that agree with either side?

 

[Golden_Void]

I do not know enough about Bayonetta to be of much use here, but I have been told that there are serious problems in this thread.
Can somebody please summarise what is being debated here, the consequences it would have on statistics, and which members that agree with either side?

Multi-dimensional range witch time needs to be downgraded, possibly among others.

Here, we see Bayo activate witch time while Enzo's car is flying in the air, and destruction is everywhere. Given.

Shortly after, we see her use her magic portal thing to go to Purgatorio.

If her witch time affected both realms at the same time, why is it that when she switched dimensions, the angels were waiting for her, clearly unaffected by witch time in any capacity?

In fact, it's not until this scene where we clearly see witch time being activated in Purgatorio, do we see any evidence of the lesser angels being affected by it. We also don't see them break free of witch time's bonds until after that very scene.

Additionally, her fight against Sapientia showed no evidence of witch time. Here, we see her cross over to Purgatorio, not activate witch time, further evidenced by the fact that we see Luka and baby Bayo zip up the helicopter at normal speed instead of being reduced to a crawl.

Here we see her escaping Purgatorio

There is no witch time used. Also to suggest witch time was used as soon as she finished fighting would also suggest that Luka would already be inside of the helicopter by that time. Plus, the moving picture animation style of the game shouldn't be confused with witch time being used, as we still see the stormy weather at full speed, and Luka's clothes quickly moving by the wind.

In fact, there's no cutscene where witch time is activated, which means outside of gameplay which has no contribution to the storyline, it doesn't happen.

We see her cross over from Purgatorio and beat Luka to the helicopter that he was already zipping up, and the only likely conclusion there is, is pure speed.

It should be noted that Purgatorio and the real world share the same space-time (or maybe they don't, idk, unsure about the third dimension. If they do then nothing makes sense anymore :^)), with the only difference is that its occupants are invisible, but they can still physically interact with the normal world, like Madara's limbo.

 

[Rocker1189]

Thats literally her dispelling Witch Time

Thing is she never used it before the fight or luka would have slowed down as he was going up to the helicopter.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ant Basically the issue is with a scene where Bayonetta fights a boss character and is able to defeat it before another character can move ten feet to reach a helicopter, and we're arguing over whether of not she used her time manipulation to slow him down or the other character was just hanging on the end of a rope for ten minutes for no reason

 

[Golden_Void]

Thing is she never used it before the fight or luka would have slowed down as he was going up to the helicopter.

Exactly what I've been saying. And unless, like Weekly says, someone suggests he's just hanging out, he would already be in the helicopter by that time.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Ant Basically the issue is with a scene where Bayonetta fights a boss character and is able to defeat it before another character can move ten feet to reach a helicopter, and we're arguing over whether of not she used her time manipulation to slow him down or the other character was just hanging on the end of a rope for ten minutes for no reaso

Unless the fight was sped up after all Bayonetta is meant to have MFTL+ combat speeds. So all that moving you do to fight the boss is slowed down massively he probably "watched" the fight for 1 second.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But he wasnt in the helicopter, thats the whole point

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Rocker The version of Bayonetta in that fight is only MHS+

 

[Antvasima]

@Weekly

Well, that does not seem to be a very controversial issue. I am surprised that it has caused so much trouble.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im just as surprised as you

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker The version of Bayonetta in that fight is only MHS+

That is still pretty damn fast lol.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Weekly

Well, that does not seem to be a very controversial issue. I am surprised that it has caused so much trouble.

It is basically just a circle jerk argument at this point. UMR makes sense imo.

 

[Golden_Void]

MHS to a standard human is probably less than one second.

 

[Golden_Void]

Unless the fight was sped up after all Bayonetta is meant to have MFTL+ combat speeds. So all that moving you do to fight the boss is slowed down massively he probably "watched" the fight for 1 second.

Actually this isn't possible either, he wouldn't be able to see Bayonetta in Purgatorio.