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Dude why would you go with phantom clock arms for a pure speed boost?
Like I ain't no game designer but I feel like you'd do that to remind "Hey you're slowing down time"
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Bayonetta's Witch Time is not a time slow.
- Thread starter swaggyzealot
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Like I ain't no game designer but I feel like you'd do that to remind "Hey you're slowing down time"
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Are you saying you going to get this thread deleted? Again, this prompt began by finding in-game texts stating WT is a speed boost. And again, even if we exclude my direct question on Twitter, Kamiya has said other times in interviews that this is the case. And again, Witch Time being a speed boost contradicts nothing in-gameAlso im just realizing that the entire basis of this thread is a massive rule violation, directly messaging creators to get word of god statements to upgrade or downgrade a verse is against the site rules
Site Rules
The VS Battles Wiki is a community with a large number of active users, most of whom are dedicated to discussing and indexing statistics of characters from a variety of fictional franchises. However, maintaining proper conduct and behavior among the large and active user base of this community...vsbattles.fandom.com
"Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics."
Also, please provide statements that Witch Time is indeed time manipulation, since you claimed there are, but you haven't linked any.
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I just explained that they use the phantom clock arms to show how long your Witch Time lasts. Every other time Witch Time is used in gameplay (ex. extended fights such as the vid you link), they use the same clock arms because it's the same ability.
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No?
I think that'd be the literal countdown in the top upper screen, not the clock arms that most people would likely not be able to accurately read
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Look, if there are statements for this being time manipulation, provide it.
We won't be taking visual effects over statements in-game, by game prompts and by WoG. While you could argue all three are wrong, you'd need to provide proof that this contradicts in-game statements. Simple as that.
We won't be taking visual effects over statements in-game, by game prompts and by WoG. While you could argue all three are wrong, you'd need to provide proof that this contradicts in-game statements. Simple as that.
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It seems I have to repeat myself multiple times in this thread, the phantom clock shows how long your Witch Time lasts. Every other time Witch Time is used in gameplay (ex. extended fights such as the vid you link), again they use same the clock arms because it's the same ability (even though it is no longer accurately used as a "timer").
Randomlamdom
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I’ll just put an idea out as a possibility, what if it’s a time based speed amp like Kiritsugu Emiya, would it fit?
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Dude I'm not talking about the literal time clocks I'm talking about the nearly transparent old clock arms that appear when she uses it
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Gladly, even the actual lore guides in the game state that it is time manipulation
Though as ive already explained the in-game statements outright admit that they are not wholly accurate by the guy making them and the WoG in question is a guided question asked to the notorious troll Kamiya
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????? I am literally talking about the same thing.
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PROVIDE THE CHARACTER STATEMENT
You are genuinely just ignoring the details and facts if you believe Antonio is "making them up" or is "inaccurate."
Guided question? How is asking, "is Light Speed a time stop or a speed boost" a guided question? It is a direct question, with a singular answer.
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I considered this as well, when I first discovered the in-game texts. But again, Kamiya has explicitly stated that "both Witch Time and Light Speed are not about manipulating time, but rather speeding up the user."
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Here's a question
Isn't it stated in the game guides that it's a Time slow?
Isn't it stated in the game guides that it's a Time slow?
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Once more, I will repeat, as I am the one who linked the gameguide in the first place,
"...there is an official game guidebook, that states Bayonetta "slows time." However these statements are later contradicted by Kamiya himself, as he makes an appearance in the same book, with the above interviews I've posted in the OP. And in my mind, WoG + in-game statements > Guidebook.
Basically, if we look at all the available information/sources, in-game texts and out of game interviews/statements, there is overwhelming evidence towards Temporal Control: Witch Time and Light Speed, being an actual speed boost. The only evidence (that I've found), for Witch Time being a time slow, is within 5 lines of the game guide, and the Smash Bro's trailer (which wouldn't matter anyway, since it isn't canon).
All other sources, multiple WoG statements and in-game texts, state Bayonetta can speed herself up. (In-game feats can be said for either way, since as I said before, time is relative, so it wouldn't make a difference to how the ability looks.)
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Again, you said there are character statements stating that Witch Time is a time slow. Provide these, and I will reconsider my belief that Witch Time is a speed boost.
WoG + in-game statements > guidebook (simply by virtue)
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Theyre not contradicted by Kamiya in the book, the scan you posted just says that he wanted lightning fast gameplay. That is not him saying that Witch Time is a speed amp thats him saying he wanted the game to be fast paced.
So again, your current argument is coming from a self-admittedly inaccurate in-game source and a guy who is notorious for giving troll answers (on top ofhalf the scans you posted not evn talking about Witch Time), both of which contradict what is stated and shown in the game itself and supported by the guidebook information
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Here are two statements from the guidebook that say that Witch Time is time slow
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You are intentionally being obtuse at this point.
Again, Antoino is NEVER INCORRECT IN ANY OF HIS STATEMENTS. EVERYTHING HE STATES IS TRUE.
Once more, Kamiya has said WT is a speed boost on multiple occasions. You are literally using the evidence I have provided to try and debunk this, even though I already explained many, many times, why the in-game texts are not inaccurate , and WoG should be taken in this instance.
Once more, again, an info prompt tells us that Witch Time is a speed boost. And as this should not be inaccurate at all, in-game texts > guidebooks.
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One of your links is broken, and again the other link is the guidebook I posted, even though I already explained many, many times, why the in-game texts are not inaccurate, and WoG should be taken in this instance.
Once more, again, an info prompt tells us that Witch Time is a speed boost. And as this should not be inaccurate at all, in-game texts > guidebooks.
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Once more, you said there are character statements stating WT is a time slow; there are none, I know this, since you haven't provided any, and I have already searched for them myself.
Again, to repeat ad nauseum, even if we want to exclude Antonio's Notes and Kamiya's word (which we shouldn't), an info prompt tells us that Witch Time is a speed boost. And as this should not be inaccurate at all, in-game texts > guidebooks.
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This is correct, every single source in-game doesn't say it's time slow either. It's "Time Manipulation" because it makes you faster.
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Antonio himself says that hes not always right so...
Kamiya has also told people to ask thier moms when asked who would win between dante and bayonetta and regularly gives troll and contradictory answers to fans who directly ask him questions regarding his games, hence why we do not allow his WoG in situations such as this
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Antonio is the primary source in-game for lore on literally everything so by conveniently saying he is wrong on the one thing that would downgrade a character you are showing how biased towards keeping Bayonetta as strong as possible you are.
This is a non-argument because whether or not his books are in-universe, they are still how the lore of Bayonetta's world is transmitted to the player in-game.
Kamiya said that Witch Time was a Speed Boost on a professional interview with a magazine he gave 3 months after Bayonetta's release in 2010. This is not comparable and you know it, a professional interview and a twitter troll post is blatantly different, this is a strawman.
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I have literally addressed ALL OF THIS. Either you are purposely ignoring what I have written, or genuinely do not understand what I am saying.Antonio himself says that hes not always right so...
Kamiya has also told people to ask thier moms when asked who would win between dante and bayonetta and regularly gives troll and contradictory answers to fans who directly ask him questions regarding his games, hence why we do not allow his WoG in situations such as this
From my forth comment:
"...on the notes being written by Antonio Redgrave, who is a journalist writing these entries 500 years after the Umbra and Lumen clans died out - there is very little reason to believe that those texts are inaccurate (Well, besides the fact that he isn't an Umbra or Lumen). All of his other texts are correct; he is aware of the existence of the "Trinity of Realities," other techniques such as "Witch Walk," how the Umbra made contracts with demons, their use of "Wicked Weaves," the use of "Heavenly Manipulators," and many, many other aspects of obscure lore. Narratively, Antonino's Notes serve as a way to draw us into the world and explain it.
The only thing Antonio is unsure on, are the "Eyes," but he doesn't definitively state what they are because he doesn't know. We can presume, since all of the other statements that Antonio made are correct, ex. Wicked Weaves, Witch Walk, etc, that his description of Witch Time is also true (read additional blurb below second image).
And the in-universe explanation on why Antonio would know all this information, is even stated by him. Antonio believes that "there is a possibility that Balder (the last living Lumen) is intentionally leaking information." Which is why he would know so much about this forgotten world."
From the OP:
Nevertheless, finding this text file did confuse me, so I went to twitter to ask Hideki Kamiya, the director of Bayo1 and writer of both games, to clarify on how this ability works. Specifically, I asked him on how the Lumen's Light Speed ability works (since I was writing a Respect Thread on a Lumen character, and it is what initially brought me to the above text file). Kamiya has since said that "both Witch Time and Light Speed are not about manipulating time, but rather speeding up the user."
I honestly thought he was messing with me, since he is know to troll people on twitter before, but upon combing over old interviews, art books, and even strategy guides, I've found it fairly common to describe Witch Time as to "slow down time in-game," and describe the "slow effect as a mechanic." Witch Time is also never referred to as time manipulation within either of the games. Seriously, I’ve probably spent way too much time going over everything and every time Witch Time is brought up it is never said to be time manipulation. Insane.
And as proof Kamiya isn't just making shit up a decade after the game was released, here, in an interview 3 months after the game came out, Kamiya states that "Witch Time is a skill that activates super-fast movement." Not slowing down time/time manipulation, but fast movement.
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The way I see it it makes Bayonetta faster by distorting her personal perception of time (Hence why it is described as a "hyper-sensitive state" where she can move with "incredible speed".
It doesn't affect the world around her.
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He is wrong in almost every guidebook entry in the game as it is contradicted by the people who actually know about what they are talking about via experiencing it firsthand.
The lore is that Bayonetta has time manipulation.
Except he didnt, all he said was that he wanted the gameplay to be fast-paced. We even hav rules spcifically against using WoG that contradicts what is shown in the media in question to prvent the use of stuff like this
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Should mention kamiya is very weird about his Twitter posts.
He has this very strict guideline that he has posted once before on who he will block or troll And it depends on how the common reads to him. If feels the person is an "idiot" in his opinion he will troll and block them.
If he doesn't he will just give a straight conversation
He has this very strict guideline that he has posted once before on who he will block or troll And it depends on how the common reads to him. If feels the person is an "idiot" in his opinion he will troll and block them.
If he doesn't he will just give a straight conversation
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I don't really care how this ends up one way or the other, but whatever conclusion yall reach, it should probably lead to a note linking to this thread in the relevant profiles, just so this discussion isn't started again (until Bayonetta 3, if that ever happens)
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Again you show your hypocrisy. You are perfectly fine with using Antonio or other Bayonetta in-universe books as long as what they say upgrades the characters. You shown this time and again throughout the years and to deny it would be to lie to my face.
"Time Manipulation" that isn't time slow. The ability is referred to as "Temporal Control" that makes one move faster. You are blatantly misrepresenting the information given to the player in-game.
Also you cannot define what is and isn't lore and gatekeep the game itself from telling you what is or isn't right.
No, he said that "Witch Time is a skill that activates super-fast movement" in context of talking about the characters and the story and Jeanne's own control of Witch Time vs Bayonetta's.
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This is false, these are just false statements, and again, if you actually took time to read what I have written, you would realize you are wrong.
I thought Witch Time was time manipulation at first as well, but this evidence suggests otherwise. Accept it.
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Good thing we are using a professional interview Kamiya did before even making a twitter account, not a twitter post.
"Witch Time is a skill that activates super-fast movement."
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Definitely, I knew this would be a contentious topic, since this massive misunderstanding would upset some people, but I didn't expect a certain denial of evidence.
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Weekly's denial is 100% irrelevant to this discussion because he is denying blatantly factual information conveyed via clearly defined phrases.
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Still agree with op
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I agree with the op and Matt currently
Hasty12345
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I agree with Matt on this, it's pretty blatant I think
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"Weekly you need to find evidence that it is time slow and not a speed amp!"
"okay give me some time to go through the games and get scans."
"NO, NOW!"
"I need time to get them."
"Okay then we're going to just keep echoing each other to get people on our side before you post them."
This thread in a nutshell
"okay give me some time to go through the games and get scans."
"NO, NOW!"
"I need time to get them."
"Okay then we're going to just keep echoing each other to get people on our side before you post them."
This thread in a nutshell
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Adding this as well, in case anyone questions the interview source: It is from Bayonetta: The Official Guide. <--download link.
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