Bayonetta's Witch Time is not a time slow.

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I at least agree with Weekly that Bayonetta still resists Time manipulation for other reasons, but I'm still neutral on whether or not it's speed amp or time slow.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

My stance is the same as Medeus'. Don't really care whether it is Time Slow, Time Accel or Speed Amp, as the overall end result is nigh the same.

 

[FinePoint]

My stance is the same as Medeus'. Don't really care whether it is Time Slow, Time Accel or Speed Amp, as the overall end result is nigh the same.

It makes a huge difference for match-ups because the former is negated by resistance to time manipulation, while the latter is not.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Honestly if it gets changed to speed amp it adds further justification to irenics feat being legit so either way I dont particularly care

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Speed amps are allowed in speed =ed matchups but they're restricted if they would lead to a blitz.

"During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character."

It kind of is important because in virtually every scenario witch time would lead to a blitz due to how much increases her speed in comparison to her normal self.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I might change my vote

 

[Comicgyal]

Her base speed is already MFTL, might be even more due to some calcs. If the irenic feat is accepted and we lowball, her witch time self will be incredibly fast, meaning she would totally blitz in speed equalized threads

Not to mention if the highball irenic feat gets accepted.. well, lol

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The Irenic feat has technically already been accepted. It was long ago. The work calculated is completely legit, but the feat itself was determined to be an outlier.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It kind of is important because in virtually every scenario witch time would lead to a blitz due to how much increases her speed in comparison to her normal self.

Seeing as she is about to be ridiculously high into mftl+ it's unlikely that she would ever be the slower combatant

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Irenic feat has technically already been accepted. It was long ago. The work calculated is completely legit, but the feat itself was determined to be an outlier.

And with this it wouldnt be anymore as all Angel's would have justification for being faster than jubileus

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Save that for later you all.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Speed amps are allowed in speed =ed matchups but they're restricted if they would lead to a blitz.


It kind of is important because in virtually every scenario witch time would lead to a blitz due to how much increases her speed in comparison to her normal self.

The faster character can still blitz.

 

[swaggyzealot]

Can we stop this constant pretentious tone over a fictional ability? It does not make you more likely to get people to agree with you.

Really? Am I the only one who sees the problem with two "knowledgeable" members constantly getting their info wrong? How is anyone to trust their prior revisions on this universe when one has shown the capacity to lie to prove their point, and two just misunderstand the lore/misremember what occurs in the game?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Really? Am I the only one who sees the problem with two "knowledgeable" members constantly getting their info wrong? How is anyone to trust their prior revisions on this universe when one has shown the capacity to lie to prove their point, and two just misunderstand the lore/misremember what occurs in the game?

Jeez, and I thought I was dickish. and by the way, YOU were the one trying to pass off "Lightning-fast gameplay" as some kind of proof of a speed amp, so don't pull that "misunderstand" stuff. Also I thought your "real last post" was 20 posts before this latest post 32 hours, 34 minutes ago, what happened to that?

 

[swaggyzealot]

Reaper, **** off. How is Kamiya stating that the precursor to WT was how he wanted a "lightning-fast system," and how it eventually turned into the "slow-motion" model confusing? It's not standalone proof but it's supporting proof you dumbfuck. You're the ******** posting ******* Bob Ross, Warhammer, and some stupid ass "****" song in this thread. **** off dude, you have easily been the most aggravating user in this entire debate.

 

[Antvasima]

Please tone down the language and the attitude swaggy.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reaper, **** off. How is Kamiya stating that the precursor to WT was how he wanted a "lightning-fast system," and how it eventually turned into the "slow-motion" model confusing? It's not standalone proof but it's supporting proof you dumbfuck. You're the ******** posting ******* Bob Ross, Warhammer, and some stupid ass "****" song in this thread. **** off dude, you have easily been the most aggravating user in this entire debate.

You do realize I've stopped actually caring right? Your getting angry because I criticized your all mighty and perfect argument. For something that you tried to pass off as proof, and that still isn't even supporting proof because it was literally explaining game design. And if your going to pull insults at least make them something everybody and their grandma hasn't seen or heard millions of times already(we both know I'm not exempt from this), and unfortunately for you I am in a very good mood today, so I can watch you flail about as a piece of your platform on your high horse falls flat onto the ground .

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I would appreciate help from any staff members with reaching a conclusion here.

 

[Antvasima]

Reaper, please do not make this situation worse. If people are busy fighting with each other, we won't be able to collaborate to get anywhere.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reaper, please do not make this situation worse. If people are busy fighting with each other, we won't be able to collaborate to get anywhere.

Honestly if the situation actually does get worse ill bring it to the wall since this thread doesn't need more cluttering

 

[RoyGundam]

What is the final decision then ? Self time acceleration seems to be the consensus position

 

[swaggyzealot]

Since self time acceleration is pretty much the exact same thing as super speed in fiction, I'd say it's more accurate just to call it the latter, since that's how the game refers to the ability.

 

[RoyGundam]

"Perceiving everything within the instant" sounds more like self time accel. It also concisely contains all the aspects of the ability whereas with superspeed, there has to be a lot of additional explanation about all the different ways she uses that power

 

[swaggyzealot]

That also can be interpreted as super perception, which is in innate sub power of super super. And like I said Quicksilver (who has speed based powers) does similar things to Bayo. The most accurate way to describe Bayonetta's powerset in this case would just be speed manipulation/super speed with a relative "speed field."

And again since the game says Bayonetta WT is a speed boost, not time manipulation, it seems more correct to just call it superspeed/speed manipulation.

 

[RoyGundam]

Speed manipulation also sounds good to me

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Really? Am I the only one who sees the problem with two "knowledgeable" members constantly getting their info wrong? How is anyone to trust their prior revisions on this universe when one has shown the capacity to lie to prove their point, and two just misunderstand the lore/misremember what occurs in the game?

I frankly don’t care. No amount of gaps in memory, or lack of understanding justify how rude you’ve been to the opposing side this entire time. Telling them to “slowly” read your points again because they disagree, accuse Weekly of lying, outright insult their knowledge by saying “gets 90% of their information wrong”. Stop trying to push this upgrade as objective, clearly people don’t agree with you.

 

[swaggyzealot]

I frankly don’t care. No amount of gaps in memory, or lack of understanding justify how rude you’ve been to the opposing side this entire time. Telling them to “slowly” read your points again because they disagree, accuse Weekly of lying, outright insult their knowledge by saying “gets 90% of their information wrong”. Stop trying to push this upgrade as objective, clearly people don’t agree with you.

Man... I've told people to re-read my points since they claim I argue certain things when I do not, don't even read my points since they keep asking the same exact questions instead of asking/making a relevant follow up question/argument, and have been conveniently ignoring the sources I've provided throughout the debate, such as with this whole exchange here or again here, and many other times.

Weekly did lie in this debate, right here. He said he had 5 in game statements on hand, and never linked them. He continued to parrot this claim, even though he never provided them. Calling people out on their bullshit shouldn't be reprimanded, especially when they're a mod.

And yes, I've targeted their knowledge since they've consistently misread/misunderstood in-game texts, and forgotten/misremembered about aspects of the game.

I've had a certain user call me ******** and a write long swear filled rant, you've called me pretentious, and there's been so much passive aggressiveness and bias in this whole debate it's been absurd.

Whatever conclusion the mods come with, it's their vote. I'm pretty much done with this wiki though, with what I've seen here (and I know you don't care, but I'm just putting it out there).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I've had a certain user call me ******** and a write long swear filled rant, you've called me pretentious, and there's been so much passive aggressiveness and bias in this whole debate it's been absurd.

I don’t condone Reaper either, but I’ve seen your behavior more since you’ve been on this thread longer.

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Dragonmasterxyz

I would appreciate if you could try to make judgements regarding what we should do here.

You can ask other staff members for help if you wish.

@All

Neutral summaries of the points of each side to help the staff decide would be very appreciated.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, I did still say I was neutral, but I personally see "Speed amp via time manipulation" replacing "Time slow" to actually be an upgrade if anything since it would be more effective against characters with time manipulation resistance + She still has resistance to time slow for other reasons. But I'll overall lean towards makin Witch time more of a speed amp but letting Bayonetta have time slow resistance.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I still support either Time Accel or Speed Amp. My opinion is mainly the same as Medeus'

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

So is this a Speed Amp + Perception Manip or just speed amp?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Also, we should probably put a note about this on the profiles of Bayo, Balder, Jeanne, and Rosa. Maybe the Discussion Rules page as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What Dragonmaster and Medeus have decided can probably be applied then.

 

[swaggyzealot]

So do I apply the changes or is that Dragonmaster/Medeus' job?

 

[Axxtentacle]

You should be able to apply the changes, but the profiles may be locked. You might have to ask for them to be unlocked.

 

[swaggyzealot]

Alright, I'll do it later today. Just want to double check, Dragonmaster said either way, so @DarkDragonMedeus - did you want speed amp via self time manipulation, or speed amp via speed manipulation, since both are pretty much the same, and the latter seems more correct based off descriptions.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, I did still say I was neutral, but I personally see "Speed amp via time manipulation" replacing "Time slow" to actually be an upgrade if anything since it would be more effective against characters with time manipulation resistance + She still has resistance to time slow for other reasons. But I'll overall lean towards makin Witch time more of a speed amp but letting Bayonetta have time slow resistance.

Alright I'll do it later today. Just want to double check, Dragonmaster said either way, so @DarkDragonMedeus - did you want speed amp via time manipulation, or speed amp via speed manipulation, since both are pretty much the same.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you experienced enough with our wiki editing standards to apply the changes properly swaggy? Otherwise, perhaps some more experienced member should handle it.

Please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made.

 

[swaggyzealot]

Changes have already been made - followed guidelines appropriately. Only made small edits according to mod verdict.

Can double check in case I missed something:
Bayo
Jeanne
Balder
Rosa