Bayonetta revisions part 2

[Comicgyal]

Really? Then why are we talking about Low 1C

That was the other thread.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Really? Then why are we talking about Low 1C

We're not...

 

[Schnee_One]

Then this requires a different thread because this has been heavily derailed to oblivion and should be restarted on a single topic

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Then this requires a different thread because this has been heavily derailed to oblivion and should be restarted on a single topic

Dude this thread is solely about MFTL+ speed no one has brought up Low 1-C at any point in this thread

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Then this requires a different thread because this has been heavily derailed to oblivion and should be restarted on a single topic

Yes, that's what this thread is.

 

[Schnee_One]

Jesus I focused so much on the argument itself, thats my bad

 

[Comicgyal]

Yeah we’re discussing Irenic. If you could look up and give your opinion it would be appreciated.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Weekly you are literally the worst person to ever be "calling out BS arguments" you have been perpetuating this thread with your attitude alongside Glass and to even deny that you had any fault like you always do is a level of denial I have never seen.

I am not in any way, shape, or form at fault for Glass' actions here. If anything Ant is partially at fault for cheering Glass on for bold face lying to him and using feats and arguments that have nothing to do with this revision as evidence against it. Excuse me for calling him out on that, it's not like anyone else here is willing to do so instead.

Any staff who actively accuses other members of stonewalling because they disagree is immature, and downright inexcusable for any staff.

You say this like it's what I've been doing when that is factually incorrect. The fact of the matter is that Glass has been using comparisons that have nothing to do with this revision to try to argue that the revision is not legitimate.

You were demoted for a reason, seems you have forgotten that

Dude I was demoted because a bunch of trolls went through all of my history, screenshotted everything I had ever said on the wiki since I joined, went behind the back of the HR department and remanded I be demoted.

 

[Schnee_One]

I am not in any way, shape, or form at fault for Glass' actions here. If anything Ant is partially at fault for cheering Glass on for bold face lying to him and using feats and arguments that have nothing to do with this revision as evidence against it. Excuse me for calling him out on that, it's not like anyone else here is willing to do so instead.


You say this like it's what I've been doing when that is factually incorrect.


Dude I was demoted because a bunch of trolls went through all of my history, screenshotted everything I had ever said on the wiki since I joined, went behind the back of the HR department and remanded I be demoted.

No accountability, none, even going so far as to say HR was wrong on the choice and the trolls are at fault for the last?

You proved my point, I'm out

 

[Comicgyal]

Yeah we’re discussing Irenic. If you could look up and give your opinion it would be appreciated.

Or not ..

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No accountability, none, even going so far as to say HR was wrong on the choice and the trolls are at fault for the last?

You proved my point, I'm out

Dude Ant and Ryu werent even made aware of my demotion until after it happened and only half the HR group were present for the decision to apply it, yes I wholeheartedly think they were wrong.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Dude Ant and Ryu werent even made aware of my demotion until after it happened and only half the HR group were present for the decision to apply it, yes I wholeheartedly think they were wrong.

I wholeheartedly disagree that what you say are the facts, considering your history. Anyway, continuing onto his comment is pointless, he left the discussion.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway, last post here since I actually really like Comic and I'd rather leave positively. Irenic seems legit, I did agree with that years ago for the same reasons as now.

 

[Comicgyal]

Thank you : ) see you later!

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I wholeheartedly disagree that what you say are the facts, considering your history. Anyway, continuing onto his comment is pointless, he left the discussion.

The facts are as follows:

Glass is using a flight speed feat and an attack speed feat to argue against a reaction speed feat and is arguing that this revision is upgrading everyone's travel speed when it is not and never was.

Glass is ignoring the context in which the feats take place as he is consistently ignoring that the feats I question are performed by characters that are either nearly dead (jubileus while not even fully summoned and Jubileus after having her physical body destroyed) or performing them instinctively (jeanne dodging meteors, bayo dodging light)

Glass' argument that it's an outlier has been disagreed with by every staff member in this thread.

These are the facts taken directly from Glass' arguments in this thread.

Not sure what you mean by 'my history' though, my history has been getting revisions that I said were going to happen passed and only arguing using objective fact.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Good lord, ENOUGH.

We're clearly missing Axiom's point here and this is just derailing now. Can both sides wrap up their final arguments and have neutral and experienced members evaluate this please?

 

[InfiniteDay]

Not sure what you mean by 'my history' though, my history has been getting revisions that I said were going to happen passed and only arguing using objective fact.

Everybody knows what it means. This is pointless and reflects badly.

 

[Comicgyal]

Everyone has sent their arguments, anything after this point is kinda useless unless it’s a mod giving their point of view.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yeah calling people that disagree as biased is really unnecessary at least

Okay so, as someone who isn't that related to Bayonetta, I'm being neutral here, and going with agree FRA for now

My main problem was the consistency/outlier things, but what I understood here is that Irenic, despite being fodder, has a very good reason to be this fast since it's his..."job", let's say, given by him by a God Tier, based on this:

While some of the other feats pale in comparison to Irenic, this is actually for good reason. Irenics case as an Angel is very special, he was a messenger Angel that was created before history, tasked with spreading gods word around Paradiso

Thanks Comic for the post btw, despite I'm not being a mod I didn't wanted to stay just "neutral". So with that out of the way, I'm okay with the upgrade for their Combat/Reaction speed

 

[Cyberblader90]

Hold on I didn't say I was a disagree at this point.
I said I had stated everything I had to State prior, that's it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First of all, I'd appreciate it if both sides stopped going at each other's throats. At least Weekly actually did apologize to me when I called him out earlier, others later starting calling him "The worst person to call out BS". You may call him "Misinformed" or "Forgetting crucial details," or even "The type of person who changes their mind too much" but you cannot call him "A Liar" if he legit believes the words he is saying are true. Calling him those earlier aforementioned titles are both, poisoning the well and don't make some of you any better than he is. And please do not attack Antvasima over this either Weekly, he is often overworked or may have misunderstood some things. But I do not blame Weekly too much as he can get really exhausted from people necroing things from the past. But Antvasima and plenty of other staff members have good intentions too.

As for the laser feat, we do see Balder activate the Right Eye before it is fired, but it is the frozen/petrified version of the sleeping Jubileus is where the laser is coming from. Take your pick who is causing the laser to be fired, but it's obvious that it's Jubileus who is having her energy release to shoot the laser. Also, as for the "Whether it is casual or not" I'm pretty that a 3-A character effortlessly busting a High 6-A sized planet is considered a casual feat AP or Speed. If we have an all or nothing policy for specific feats being outliers; being an outlier AP wise makes it one both speed and range wise as well if it's all three of those. The same thing will be done about low-end destruction feats; if it's casual AP wise, it's also casual speed and range wise. Also, the word "Anti-feat" is being grossly misused a lot here. An Antifeat is what you call something that is the exact opposite of a feat; example getting killed by a bullet that shot you or punching a wall and doing 0 damage to it. It shouldn't be used in place of low end feat casual or not; hence why "Anti-Feat" has been officially made a generally taboo thermology since 2017.

Also, "Infinite speed" statement was taken out of context; no one is using the "Limitless dimension" statement anymore. I was also one of the people who rejected that statement in fact. Also, I said approaches infinite speed, not reaches. It means Bayonetta gradually gets faster and faster each and every single time she dodges an attack. That's the basic idea of how Witch Time works. She never actually reaches infinite, but she does get constantly faster and her combat speed reaching massively above baseline Massively FTL+ is rather uncontroversial given the nature of Witch Time. So for that reason, I seen nothing wrong with Bayonetta being superior to angels in combat who have been compared to the Irenic.

Anyway, nothing wrong with tagging more neutral staff, but this is the way I see how and why this is consistent. I'm glad Axiom has good intentions as well as a couple regular users here.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

the DMC supporters

I have been summoned.

On a side note regarding what you said, this isn't some "rivalry", this thing basically started because the guy up there can't handle a certain verse and always talks more than he should and acts in a certain way that basically everyone in this wiki knows. The reason I made a joke thread mocking this is because of him and the reason I am against this is not only because it is a God level outlier but because I actively dislike the guy (sorry comicgyal for the trouble, you are cool tho and have my respect for upgrading the verse in a matter of days)

Being conscious of my bias is the reason I have been away from this and stood quiet, otherwise I would be derailing the thread like I'm doing now or actively trying to debunk it based on pure bias.

This is my last post on the matter and sorry for the derailment.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, we already debunked that, not all DMC supporters are against the upgrade here, and if some are, we shouldn't just jump to conclusions saying people are biased here by that, should be obvious to avoid this but, well, it happens. Also, DMC and Bayonetta have so much in common, it should be expected that they will share some people to debate in the verse's threads

At least, that's what I believe

 

[Schnee_One]

Medeus we are not even discussing all of the revision stuff you just typed anymore, only the Irenic feat.

Please read the thread and don't make the same mistake I did

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Uh actually, Medeus is addressing a previous out of context take on his previous message in this thread. The laser feat DDM is referring to is a response to the oppositions argument. They're on topic here as far as I can tell.

 

[Cyberblader90]

can we just do votes at this point?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I was addressing some points others mentioned and or took out of context, but wrote list of reasons for why I think the Irenic feat is consistent.

 

[Comicgyal]

Yes, let’s go ahead and take a vote so that I can cause more trouble with other revisions after this is closed.
jk

Anyways..

Agree: DDM, Shiva, Schnee, Dante_Demon, Dienomite, WeeklyBattles, Crimson, Cyber, Milly, Therealcalhoward, Armorchompy(?),ionliosite, Shiva
Disagree: Glass, Zephyros(?), Efite, Infiniteday, Keeweed, Tony
Neutral: Planck69

I may be missing some, excuse me if I am. This is everyone who has commented I believe, calling more neutral staff members is advised, this is just how it’s looking.

 

[Planck69]

I'm actually neutral.

 

[Antvasima]

Good lord, ENOUGH.

We're clearly missing Axiom's point here and this is just derailing now. Can both sides wrap up their final arguments and have neutral and experienced members evaluate this please?

I agree with this. My apologies for not being able to help evaluate this. I am tied up with too many discussions at once, and am not very good at that sort of thing to start with.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. I just read the final page of this thread.

Anyway, Medeus seems to make sense to me.

If somebody links to or writes summaries again, I can ask more staff members for evaluations if necessary though.

 

[Theglassman12]

Well this thread sure escalated quickly...

anyways I’ve said my piece on the discussion, I’ll let the neutral side decide if this feat scales or not.

 

[Comicgyal]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Perhaps @Dragonmasterxyz as he also tends to be knowledgeable on Bayonetta as well as tends to be helpful and contributive. Pinging some of the less commonly pinged staff members might also be a good idea.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean how many more agreements do we need...?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The vote tally is 12 vs 6; Shiva was counted twice for some reason. And among the 12, there's 2 Admins, a Content Mod, a Calc group member (Though also a ? mark), and a former Discussion mod. Where as the 6 is just one Discussion mod. So the upgrade agreement side has the majority both staff and non staff, but it wouldn't hurt to want some days for more neutral staff evaluations.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I want no part in this "outlier" nonsense as what we decide is or isn't an outlier on this site changes depending on the breakfast we had that morning. Whatever the majority decides I guess. I really have no horse in this race.

Also, this whole "DMC fans conveniently helping downgrade Bayonetta" is based on actual observations and even I think it is suspicious at times. But it should always be something you keep to yourself and never be used to invalidate someone's argument. Keep that shit in Discord servers where you can get away with statements like that. I unfollowed this thread because I knew damn well it would get heated considering regardless of whether or not we want to admit it, a DMC vs Bayonetta rivalry has long existed on this site and of course I knew accusation would be thrown out, turning this into a mess.

TL;DR

Completely neutral on the outlier argument. Majority rules.

Leave the finger pointing and tinfoil theories about who comments on a downgrade for Discord servers.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, that is fair enough. But I think we already moved passed the "Verse rivalry debates" mostly due to Axiom's comment.

But thanks for commenting anyway. That adds one more to the neutral list, but mentioned a lean towards which ever one has more votes.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that what DDM suggested can probably be applied now.

Also, Dragonmasterxyz is correct in that we should try to avoid ad hominem arguments and remain polite to each other.

 

[Comicgyal]

By the consensus made by people currently here, the irenic MFTL+ scaling can be applied. Quick question for DDM though, were you proposing an all around Mftl+ changes, or just in combat speed and reactions?