BATTLE OF THE UNDEAD: DIO VS MORBIUS

[Arnoldstone18]

Thanks.

 

[Chariot190]

Morbius will dodge it if Jonathan can, even better with his morphing abilities that will let the laser go straight through or he morphs his body in a way that makes him easily react. So It does not matter if it’s an arc.

What part of Jonathan DID NOT DODGE IT, are you failing to understand? He was lucky, he tried to dodge, but all he really got was moving his arms or shifting his body slightly, and the shift was in a instance he KNEW it was coming - on the boat, aka he already seen it before, knew how dangerous it was, knew Dio could do it, and still failed to do much.

And in BOTH instances, Dio was a head anc couldn't aim or re-adjust his aim, do you know what isn't the case in this fight? Dio being just a head.
Morb dodges it, maybe, at best, then Dio shifts his eyes slightly and tags him again anyway because you failing to understand the using examples of Dio failing to hit a point because he literally couldn't not aim is a disingenuous claim, doubly so when Dio actually struck him both times with the first being luck hge lived and the second, well he didn't live, it killed him.

A beam with 2x Lesser AP is not a wincon.

You mean a beam that instantly kills people and slices through them like butter 2x less? The beam isn't 2x less, the beam instant kills those 2x less, a 2x AP advantage isn't enough to walk that off, especially as this attack has piercing and slicing, aka it mitigates durability to begin with.
Morb isn't tanking it, maybe if he was like High 8-C+ or something, but just 4 tons? Dio's own beam can one shot himself even.

It exists before I dropped it, yes. And DIO won’t even see the hypnosis coming too.

The thing is, he doesn't need to, Morb talks in fights just like Dio, Morb sometimes throws hands before he uses hypnosis in fights, invalidating it completely, and unlike Morb, Dio knows vampires have hypnosis, based on the fact that HE HIMSELF has eye contact based hypnosis JUST LIKE Morb, and Morb is very, very, clearly a vampire or demon, he would fit right in visually with some of Dio's monsters, or maybe even a yokai. Either way, well Dio himself looks human still, Morb is visually a demon of sorts and JoJo zombies and vampires can indeed look wacky like that, ergo, Dio would know from the get go he has mindhax, the only thing he wouldn't know is his morphing ability (Though he'd still expect him to be able to split apart, just not in liquid), but morphing is easily countered by shifting his eyes 2mm.

I’m not twisting anything, you should’ve asked instead of affirming your conclusions. And my ignorance pisses you off?.. lol okay.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what you did, I shouldn't have to ask why you left out loads of context, info and even scans to suit your argument when said scans prove you flat out wrong, that just comes off as dishonest.
I didn't say that but yeah, a bit, it's obvious you read the manga, and you even grabbed scans, either you just ignored blatant info that contradicts you, or uh, well you did it on purpose and that's ratty as ****, I'd like to think it was just forgetfulness tho, benefit of the doubt and all.

What is your response to Dire’s head still unfrozen or have you already responded to that.

I did, in fact case and point, I don't know HOW you missed this, but you're ignoring that Dire's head did freeze over.
Even after Dio stopped contact with it mind you, it continued to freeze and shattered.
Do I need to explain how utterly ****** Morb is if Dio's flash freeze continues even after contact is ceased?

And it sure as **** isn't because of him wanting Dire to listen to him talk fyi, otherwise he wouldn't have made it so his head froze over in the first place, that's foundationless conjecture based on your own biased misrepresenting of what's going on.

There is only 3 outcomes to why his head didn't freeze.

1. He's built different, this would apply to Dire only, as his head froze after it should've, based on the fact we see it freeze over anyway after contact was made but after the contact was lost, if Dio can only freeze with contact yet it continued anyway, Dire himself must have delayed it, if Dio simply didn't choose to freeze his head, then it wouldn't have froze after the fact.

2. Dio's freezing effect continues even after contact is lost, so all he needs is one touch at his prime, as, as shown with Dire, even after contact had ceased, his body still continued freezing and his head froze anyway and broke after contact was lost. This is actually the worst case scenario, it makes Dio's freezing ability much stronger, as if all one direct touch is needed and after contact is lost it continues, it makes the technique far more lethal.

3. Dio doesn't need contact at all and can freeze at range (Obviously not the case, at the very least they state multiple times he needs a touch).

Pick your poison, the fact his head froze anyway and even did so after contact was lost, makes these the only two options. In order for your claim to be right of Dio just not doing it, his head would have to of stayed unfrozen after contact was lost, as that is not the case, we know it was one of the two. I'm leaning toward two based on the actual wording he uses later on. You'd be right if the head didn't freeze, but unfortunately, that isn't what happened.
There's also this.


この ディオ の 冷凍 法 は ぜったい やぶれん ! 腕 一 本 なら 触れ た だけ で 充分 ! 全身 で も 二 秒 で 完璧 に 仕上げよ う ぞ
Dio's freezing method is totally unyielding! (Third person talk). Just touching one arm is enough! It only takes two seconds for the whole body to be perfectly frozen!

He straight up says just touching an arm is enough. And that within two seconds the body is perfectly frozen. Which is similar to eng, but not quite, he explicitly says "touching an arm" "is enough". The two second freeze you might think would imply continued contact, and you'd definitely think so too, but we see in that same fight with Dire, that even after Dio stopped making contact, Dire's body continued to freeze, of course we could just assume Dire is built diff, but that lacks canon backing, there must be a in-universe reason why Dire's head froze after contact had ceased.


So we have Dio saying just touching is enough, and we have a explicit instance like a minute before he says that of a dude continuing to freeze after contact has ceased.
Definitely implies Dio just needs to touch you once to remove all the heat from the body, and the body just freezes over the course of a second or two, which has supporting evidence in that same fight.

Either way, i don't much care, it's directly stated in the case of Dire that he flash froze most of him to the point of incap "in a instant", so fast that Dire didn't have time to even finish his attack so it's whatever, semantics at this point.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What part of Jonathan DID NOT DODGE IT, are you failing to understand? He was lucky, he tried to dodge, but all he really got was moving his arms or shifting his body slightly, and the shift was in a instance he KNEW it was coming - on the boat, aka he already seen it before, knew how dangerous it was, knew Dio could do it, and still failed to do much.

Jonathan still reacted to the laser.

Morbius react far easier than a raise of a hand by simply morphing around it too + his acrobatic enhancing his maneuverability with the aforementioned ability.

And in BOTH instances, Dio was a head anc couldn't aim or re-adjust his aim, do you know what isn't the case in this fight? Dio being just a head.
Morb dodges it, maybe, at best, then Dio shifts his eyes slightly and tags him again anyway because you failing to understand the using examples of Dio failing to hit a point because he literally couldn't not aim is a disingenuous claim, doubly so when Dio actually struck him both times with the first being luck hge lived and the second, well he didn't live, it killed him.

Wether or not the aim is good, Jonathan reacted to it and so would Morbius by morphing around the laser.

You mean a beam that instantly kills people and slices through them like butter 2x less? The beam isn't 2x less, the beam instant kills those 2x less, a 2x AP advantage isn't enough to walk that off, especially as this attack has piercing and slicing, aka it mitigates durability to begin with.
Morb isn't tanking it, maybe if he was like High 8-C+ or something, but just 4 tons? Dio's own beam can one shot himself even.

Never said it tanks it. He will be kinda hurt but it won’t kill him since he scales above two others below DIO. Not a wincon.

The thing is, he doesn't need to, Morb talks in fights just like Dio, Morb sometimes throws hands before he uses hypnosis in fights, invalidating it completely, and unlike Morb, Dio knows vampires have hypnosis, based on the fact that HE HIMSELF has eye contact based hypnosis JUST LIKE Morb, and Morb is very, very, clearly a vampire or demon, he would fit right in visually with some of Dio's monsters, or maybe even a yokai. Either way, well Dio himself looks human still, Morb is visually a demon of sorts and JoJo zombies and vampires can indeed look wacky like that, ergo, Dio would know from the get go he has mindhax, the only thing he wouldn't know is his morphing ability (Though he'd still expect him to be able to split apart, just not in liquid), but morphing is easily countered by shifting his eyes 2mm.

Apply your own logic. Vampires don’t look like Morbius in Jojo. He won’t know about his mind hax.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what you did, I shouldn't have to ask why you left out loads of context, info and even scans to suit your argument when said scans prove you flat out wrong, that just comes off as dishonest.
I didn't say that but yeah, a bit, it's obvious you read the manga, and you even grabbed scans, either you just ignored blatant info that contradicts you, or uh, well you did it on purpose and that's ratty as ****.

Yes you should ask next time, I don’t care if that’s your debating tactic. I only used the scan to prove he can morph. You started concluding something else instead of asking questions on why you think there was contradicting evidence and I would’ve clarified easily. If there was info that contradicts me, it would’ve already been on his profile. To top it off, I clarified your misinterpretation, and you brought it up again.

So which one of us is “ratty” then?

I did, in fact case and point, I don't know HOW you missed this, but you're ignoring that Dire's head did freeze over.
Even after Dio stopped contact with it mind you, it continued to freeze and shattered.
Do I need to explain how utterly ****** Morb is if Dio's flash freeze continues even after contact is ceased?

And it sure as **** isn't because of him wanting Dire to listen to him talk fyi, otherwise he wouldn't have made it so his head froze over in the first place, that's foundationless conjecture based on your own biased misrepresenting of what's going on.

There is only 3 outcomes to why his head didn't freeze.

1. He's built different, this would apply to Dire only, as his head froze after it should've, based on the fact we see it freeze over anyway after contact was made but after the contact was lost, if Dio can only freeze with contact yet it continued anyway, Dire himself must have delayed it, if Dio simply didn't choose to freeze his head, then it wouldn't have froze after the fact.

2. Dio's freezing effect continues even after contact is lost, so all he needs is one touch at his prime, as, as shown with Dire, even after contact had ceased, his body still continued freezing and his head froze anyway and broke after contact was lost. This is actually the worst case scenario, it makes Dio's freezing ability much stronger, as if all one direct touch is needed and after contact is lost it continues, it makes the technique far more lethal.

3. Dio doesn't need contact at all and can freeze at range (Obviously not the case, at the very least they state multiple times he needs a touch).

Pick your poison, the fact his head froze anyway and even did so after contact was lost, makes these the only two options. In order for your claim to be right of Dio just not doing it, his head would have to of stayed unfrozen after contact was lost, as that is not the case, we know it was one of the two. I'm leaning toward two based on the actual wording he uses later on. You'd be right if the head didn't freeze, but unfortunately, that isn't what happened.

Yeah I didn’t miss it.
There is no poison to pick because I can take a 4th option.

Dio began to froze his head right before he shatters the ice. Dire simply did all of that before his head froze over.

False Dilemma. Drop it. Why the hell is one of the options even Dire being built different? Yet I’m the one making biased misinterpretations.

この ディオ の 冷凍 法 は ぜったい やぶれん ! 腕 一 本 なら 触れ た だけ で 充分 ! 全身 で も 二 秒 で 完璧 に 仕上げよ う ぞ

My Google translate in the mud lol, no idea what it said. What’s your translating source

Dio's freezing method is totally unyielding! (Third person talk). Just touching one arm is enough! It only takes two seconds for the whole body to be perfectly frozen!

He straight up says just touching an arm is enough. And that within two seconds the body is perfectly frozen. Which is similar to eng, but not quite, he explicitly says "touching an arm" "is enough". The two second freeze you might think would imply continued contact, and you'd definitely think so too, but we see in that same fight with Dire, that even after Dio stopped making contact, Dire's body continued to freeze, of course we could just assume Dire is built diff, but that lacks canon backing, there must be a in-universe reason why Dire's head froze after contact had ceased.

Dio touched Jonathan too. He didn’t freeze completely in two seconds so this is an anti feat together with Dire’s situation. Dio obviously needs to hold.

Sometimes Viz notices these errors and translates them accurately to fit the story lol. If this is not the case then the 2 seconds statement should be disregarded.

So we have Dio saying just touching is enough, and we have a explicit instance like a minute before he says that of a dude continuing to freeze after contact has ceased.
Definitely implies Dio just needs to touch you once to remove all the heat from the body, and the body just freezes over the course of a second or two, which has supporting evidence in that same fight.

Either way, i don't much care, it's directly stated in the case of Dire that he flash froze most of him to the point of incap "in a instant", so fast that Dire didn't have time to even finish his attack so it's whatever, semantics at this point.

Why does Jonathan not freeze with a touch?

You clearly can’t see how your argument isn’t consistent with both fight

DIO is clearly wrong.

He left Dire’s head unfrozen and began to freeze it right before crushing him. Dire quickly did what he did before freezing over. DIO controls the freezing. It’s an obvious mistake by him. How can’t you see that? (The best explanation aside being “built different”)

I voted for DIO even though I know his overconfidence will be his downfall. You should be satisfied

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Jonathan still reacted to the laser.

Morbius react far easier than a raise of a hand by simply morphing around it too + his acrobatic enhancing his maneuverability with the aforementioned ability.


Wether or not the aim is good, Jonathan reacted to it and so would Morbius by morphing around the laser.



Never said it tanks it. He will be kinda hurt but it won’t kill him since he scales above two others below DIO. Not a wincon.



Apply your own logic. Vampires don’t look like Morbius in Jojo. He won’t know about his mind hax.

Yes you should ask next time, I don’t care if that’s your debating tactic. I only used the scan to prove he can morph. You started concluding something else instead of asking questions on why you think there was contradicting evidence and I would’ve clarified easily. If there was info that contradicts me, it would’ve already been on his profile. To top it off, I clarified your misinterpretation, and you brought it up again.

So which one of us is “ratty” then?




Yeah I didn’t miss it.
There is no poison to pick because I can take a 4th option.

Dio began to froze his head right before he shatters the ice. Dire simply did all of that before his head froze over.

False Dilemma. Drop it. Why the hell is one of the options even Dire being built different? Yet I’m the one making biased misinterpretations.




My Google translate in the mud lol, no idea what it said. What’s your translating source




Dio touched Jonathan too. He didn’t freeze completely in two seconds so this is an anti feat together with Dire’s situation. Dio obviously needs to hold.

Sometimes Viz notices these errors and translates them accurately to fit the story lol. If this is not the case then the 2 seconds statement should be disregarded.



Why does Jonathan not freeze with a touch?

You clearly can’t see how your argument isn’t consistent with both fight

DIO is clearly wrong.

He left Dire’s head unfrozen and began to freeze it right before crushing him. Dire quickly did what he did before freezing over. DIO controls the freezing. It’s an obvious mistake by him. How can’t you see that? (The best explanation aside being “built different”)

I voted for DIO even though I know his overconfidence will be his downfall. You should be satisfied

Yes you should ask next time, I don’t care if that’s your debating tactic. I only used the scan to prove he can morph. You started concluding something else instead of asking questions on why you think there was >contradicting evidence and I would’ve clarified easily. If there was info that contradicts me, it would’ve already been on his profile. To top it off, I clarified your misinterpretation, and you brought it up again.

So which one of us is “ratty” then?

??? "You should ask next time" Trying to take only parts of the context and not the entire context, is ratty af lmfao. It is important that both parties give entire context of X stuff. You not doing this honestly compromises the debate, making it harder for the debate proceed smoothly and come to a conclusion. It's the same as not clearing the road ahead for example, leaving big rocks in the path that obstructs an successful AND Smooth travel.
Do you see the problem now? That shit makes the debate take longer. "Debate tactic" Common sense indicates that you shouldn't be doing this dumb shit. This lowkey reminds me of the discord debate community where people purposefully leaves out context in order to suit their argument, including contradicting info. Cut it off.

 

[Chariot190]

Jonathan still reacted to the laser.

Morbius react far easier than a raise of a hand by simply morphing around it too + his acrobatic enhancing his maneuverability with the aforementioned ability.

Ignoring the fact Jonathan is acrobatic as **** and can do flips, jump off walls and a bunch of other shit, even before gaining Hamon.
Again, you realize Jonathan got lucky right? Jonathan barely managed to raise his hands, and he still almost died, and that was against a Dio who could not aim.
Let me say it again, DIO was incapable of actually aiming. Do you understand this? If Dio could aim Jonathan would have ******* died.
And then same applies to Morb, of Morb morphs out of the way? Cool, Dio shifts his eyes 1 degrees and takes out like ten meters in a sweep.

This isn't going to save him, especially as he lacks the ability to morph in half and what not.

Wether or not the aim is good, Jonathan reacted to it and so would Morbius by morphing around the laser.

"I'm just gonna ignore the context lol". Opinion discarded, stop being ignorant. And stop pretending Morb can even do shit like that, he can morb around attacks, but to dodge something like this? Ignoring the cloud split because lol anime, these things can get really, really bad, the further Morb is away, the harder it gets to dodge. Dodging is only feasible in this small distance that's beyond CQC (As in CQC, Dio whipping it out as a surprise attack would likely tag him) and from afar it becomes huge and arcs. The distance beyond CQC but before it becomes huge is the "safe" zone, so only a few meters, which is kind of small in the garnd scheme of things.

I don't think you understand how motion with long objects works my dude.

Never said it tanks it. He will be kinda hurt but it won’t kill him since he scales above two others below DIO. Not a wincon.

Dude, it's going to slice through Morb with ease, and if it hits his head, it's going to blow a hole through it. You're exaggerating how much stronger Morb actually is compared to Dio, the difference is like that of a normal person vs a standard athlete, obviously if you have an attack that would instant kill and straight up bisect a normal dude, it's going to be crippling, if not just as lethal to the athlete. 2x isn't as big as you think, irl boxers usually **** with differences of that magnitude.

Think of it like a gun, if you have a gun that can blow a hole through someone, it's still gonna be blowing a hole through a dude a bit stronger than you. And unlike Dio, Morb's regen kinda sucks for being a vampire, he can't survive decap, he can't survive brain destruction, he can't survive being sliced in half, etc.

It wouldn't kill him if Morb's Type 2 or regen was better or on par with Dio's, but it isn't, it's actually worse. Morb's durability isn't enough to walk away from SRSE without normally lethal damage.

Apply your own logic. Vampires don’t look like Morbius in Jojo. He won’t know about his mind hax.

I literally did? Did you not read what I said? Morb straight up looks like a demon, something Dio would have under his control, he's blatantly not human, he can very easily be assumed to be a monster or zombie or creature of the night, maybe a yokai. While Dio, on the other hand. just looks like a human.
Huge difference, Dio looks normal, Morb looks anything but normal.

Yes you should ask next time, I don’t care if that’s your debating tactic. I only used the scan to prove he can morph. You started concluding something else instead of asking questions on why there was contradicting evidence. If there was info that contradicts me, it would’ve already been on his profile. To top it off, I clarified your misinterpretation, and you brought it up again.

So which one of us is “ratty” then?

Except no, I don't it's on you to do that, you're the dude debating, you're the dude saying all this shit.
And yeah, I concluded based on the information you gave me, maybe supply the whole scene instead of one panel? That's on you, not me, to do.
Half the shit you've been saying isn't even on his profile so let's not go there.
You clarified and I said how that's your fault and how anyone who just reads it normally would think otherwise, actually read.

So you still, it's not on me to ask you what you mean, it's on you to explain what you mean. It's not on me to look up all this shit, it's on you to supply it. If you post a single page, it's your fault if the information on that page gets misrepresented because you failed to actually supply context, supply issue number, or anything of the sort. In the end, this is all on you, not me.

Yeah I didn’t miss it. There is no poison to pick because I can take a 4th option. Dio began to froze his head right before he shatters the ice. Dire simply did all of that before his head froze over. False Dilemma. Drop it. Why the hell is one of the options even Dire being built different? Yet I’m the one making biased misinterpretations.

Doesn't work like that. Dio made zero indication he began freezing his head right before, no statement or line indicates as much.
If Dio shattered the ice, why would he continue on to freeze the head?
No that doesn't work, Dire did all that AFTER HE WAS SHATTERED AND LOST CONTACT WITH DIO. His head didn't freeze over untill AFTER CONTACT WAS LOST. Do you not understand that? That one simple fact, the fact his head froze AFTER Dio stopped making contact, proves you objectively wrong.

It has to be one of the those options. If Dio began freezing his head before he shattered him, his head would've been frozen BEFORE he shattered him according to your own logic, but it wasn't it happened after Dio lost contact. This means eitehr Dire himself delayed it, or Dio's flash freeze can continue after contact is lost, and the moment he initiates it, even after he loses contact, it will still continue to freeze, which is exactly what happened. Your arguments simply do not work because you keep ignoring the fact Dio lost contact, Dire did a thing, and then he froze over even though Dio was no longer doing anything.
It very much is you misinterpretation shit, because you don't even recognize the very straightforward and blatant flaw in your own argument
Your claims are a impossibility, they do not work with the way the scene plays out.

My Google translate in the mud lol, no idea what it said. What’s your translating source

DeepL, a japanese dictionary to check if the kanji and words coincide with the translation. And then running it by Red who knows a bit of japanese to see if it checks out.

Dio touched Jonathan too. He didn’t freeze completely in two seconds so this is an anti feat together with Dire’s situation. Dio obviously needs to hold.

Sometimes Viz notices these errors and translates them accurately to fit the story lol. If this is not the case then the 2 seconds statement should be disregarded.

Dio touched Jonathan and THEY GO ON RECORD EXPLAINING HOW HE DIDN'T WANT TO FREEZE HIM, HOW HE COULDN'T FREEZE HIM, HOW HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TURN HIM INTO A MINION IF HE FROZE HIM NOR DRAIN HIM OF LIFE FORCE, JONATHAN HIMSELF EXCLAIMS THIS, AND FLASH FREEZING JONATHAN SIMPLY PREVENTS DIO FROM TURNING HIM INTO HIS MINION, IF THE BLOOD CIRCULATION IS HALTED, THE ESSENCE WILL NOT BE TRANSMITTED AND THUS WON'T WORK. IF DIO FREEZES JONATHAN TO A POINT LIKE THAT, HE WILL JUST DIE AND CAN'T BE TURNED AS THE METHOD TO TURN HIM INTO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE WILL NO LONGER BE AN OPTION. HOLY SHIT. THIS IS THE EXPLANATION AND LORE AROUND THIS EXCHANGE, THUS THIS IS THE REASON WHY, DIO EXPLICITLY HELD BACK ON FREEZING JONATHAN BEYOND JUST SURFACE LEVEL SUPERFICIALLY.

Also Viz is dogshit when it comes to JoJo, actual trash, from censorship, butchering of lines and everything inbetween, there's a damn good reason we don't use Viz, JoJo's viz translation is arguably their worst manga release.
And no, if Viz changes something, it's wrong, original raws take precedence, if Steve from translations decides to tweak a line so it sounds better in english, that's cool, but it's not canon.

The 2 second statement is legit, but what matters is what that 2 seconds actually entails, sure as hell not direct contact for 2 seconds based on what we see and what he says. And we also know with Dire he can freeze most of the body in a instant anyway, 2 seconds is just for a "perfect" freeze.

DIO is clearly wrong.

Ah yes, Dio is clearly wrong about his own ability he spent two weeks making in order to counter Hamon and his main weakness and it's YOU who is right? Man, what the actual **** are you doing? Dio isn't wrong, he's right, of course he's right, he literally created this ability, he knows what he's doing, he knows how it works.

He left Dire’s head unfrozen and began to freeze it right before crushing him.

This doesn't work, if Dio's Flash Freeze only works under contact then after he shattered him and Dire's head was left unfrozen, then it would have remained the way it was, but that isn't the case, it actually continued freezing even after Dio shattered him and his head ceased contact not only with Dio, but the rest of his frozen body.
Do you see the issue with your claim? If Dio left his head unfrozen on purpose but then began freezing again right BEFORE he shattered him, then Dire's head must have been frozen before or while being shattered, but it wasn't. This tells us that even if Dio ceases contact, as long as he had already initiated the flash freeze, it will continue even after Dio ceases contact, and thus, even after he stops doing the flash freeze manually. Which is honestly all that matters.

> Dire quickly did what he did before freezing over. DIO controls the freezing. It’s an obvious mistake by him. How can’t you see that? (The best explanation aside being “built different”)

Because, again, it doesn't work like that. The way the sequence of events happens contradicts your claim. For Flash Freeze to work like you say, Dio must have froze his head, and have it BE frozen before losing contact, but it didn't. This tells us that, as long as Dio touches them and initiates the flash freeze, it will continue even afterward - likely because Dio had already vaporized and withdrew all the heat from their body, thus no longer needing to continue direct contact. We can't deny this, Dire's head explicitly freezes AFTER, not before or while.

And no, built diff was just the lesser option, I even said I'm more inclined to go with the second option as that fits with what Dio says, it fits with what we see, explains why even after contact was lost he continued to freeze over and so on and so forth. And yes, Dio can control the freezing, how much, and how deep. This is why Jonathan wasn't turned into an icicle as Jonathan himself explains. Dio sandbagged his ice ability against Jonathan.

I voted for DIO even though I know his overconfidence will be his downfall. You should be satisfied

Why would I be satisfied when you keep saying shit like that? I'm going to argue it every time, not gonna change. You keep leaving out crucial bits of info in your claims, undermining what actually happened, and the context around it. Your Dire claim doesn't work, it's impossible. Your Jonathan claim is straight up baffling, idk how you missed the explanation or how vampire extract works, like lad, I don't about matches that much, and I'm of the belief they shouldn't even be on profiles due to how subjective they are, I'm way more concerned with the info and details of the characters themselves then who beats who, and when you say some shit that can easily lead to misinfo, I'm going to hammer down on that everytime.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You should ask next time" Trying to take only parts of the context and not the entire context, is ratty af lmfao. It is important that both parties give entire context of X stuff. You not doing this honestly compromises the debate, making it harder for the debate proceed smoothly and come to a conclusion. It's the same as not clearing the road ahead for example, leaving big rocks in the path that obstructs an successful AND Smooth travel.
Do you see the problem now? That shit makes the debate take longer. "Debate tactic" Common sense indicates that you shouldn't be doing this dumb shit. This lowkey reminds me of the discord debate community where people purposefully leaves out context in order to suit their argument, including contradicting info. Cut it off.

I’ll put it in ways for you to comprehend

—————————————————


me: Morbius can morph, look.

chariot; look here, morphing hurts him.

me: nah he was injured before.

chariot: brings it up again later.*

———————————————-


me: Morbius can morph, look.

chariot; okay cool, it seems like it hurts tho, is it due to his morphing?

me: oh nah he was injured before.

—————————————————

Simply requesting him to ask next time instead of making inferences on limited info, isn’t a crime. He can still do whatever he wants I’ll just simply correct him

so you can stfu now or vote. I don’t really care. It’s not that deep. I just read the first sentence, saw a few words that hinted shitty attitude. This is supposed to be fun.

 

[Chariot190]

I shouldn't have to ask. You should have mentioned it in the first place. Also dude, comics, we need issue numbers for those, the date, and so on. What if that scan is from a what if? An alt universe? Out of context? Comics are a ******* mess I̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵i̵l̵e̵ ̵s̵l̵o̵w̵l̵y̵ ̵g̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵r̵o̵u̵g̵h̵ ̵b̵a̵t̵m̵a̵n̵'̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵o̵l̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵t̵a̵l̵o̵g̵,̵ ̵s̵o̵m̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵d̵i̵s̵a̵s̵t̵e̵r̵
That's why we have that rule.

If you just post a scan that says "I morbed, but the strain, aghh". Basic english skills would suggest the morbed strained him.

 

[Chariot190]

so you can stfu now or vote. I don’t really care. It’s not that deep. I just read the first sentence, saw a few words that hinted shitty attitude. This is supposed to be fun.

You're being a tad hostile my dude. Guns didn't do anything wrong, he's actually making an effort to help you out. telling him to shut the **** up is a bit much.
Also wait, you only read the first sentence? Lad, that's probably why this has gone on as long as it had, don't just read bits and pieces of shit, that's bound to complicate things.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Alright so where were we.

I shouldn't have to ask. You should have mentioned it in the first place. Also dude, comics, we need issue numbers for those, the date, and so on. What if that scan is from a what if? An alt universe? Out of context? Comics are a ******* mess I̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵i̵l̵e̵ ̵s̵l̵o̵w̵l̵y̵ ̵g̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵r̵o̵u̵g̵h̵ ̵b̵a̵t̵m̵a̵n̵'̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵o̵l̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵t̵a̵l̵o̵g̵,̵ ̵s̵o̵m̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵d̵i̵s̵a̵s̵t̵e̵r̵
That's why we have that rule.

If you just post a scan that says "I morbed, but the strain, aghh". Basic english skills would suggest the morbed strained him.

All I had to say was “Morbius got strangled prior to the feat Dw about it”.
The same thing is on his profile
Just showing you what it looks like.

let’s go back to our argument, none of this even matters. I’ll just go back to our argument till grace is over, cuz you’ve already won.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You're being a tad hostile my dude. Guns didn't do anything wrong, he's actually making an effort to help you out. telling him to shut the **** up is a bit much.
Also wait, you only read the first sentence? Lad, that's probably why this has gone on as long as it had, don't just read bits and pieces of shit, that's bound to complicate things.

Fine. I’m chill. Just a tad bit irritated that requesting for you to ask questions is a big deal. I’m not even forcing you or affirming that it’s some kind of debating rule.

 

[Chariot190]

Ok but why, would that even effect his morb ability? He says the strain right after morphing, the text bubbles even linked together, it definitely seems that morphing to that extent, ie, morphing so a spray of bullets pass through, was a bit much compared to his usual morphing. Any reason why the strain is meant to be resultant of the strangle, not the morphing? Not saying I don't believe you, but confirmation or at least hard implication would be cool.
a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵m̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵s̵u̵p̵p̵o̵s̵e̵d̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵,̵ ̵a̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵?̵ ̵W̵h̵y̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵s̵t̵r̵a̵n̵g̵l̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵h̵u̵r̵t̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵m̵u̵c̵h̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵l̵i̵m̵i̵t̵s̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵o̵t̵h̵e̵r̵ ̵a̵b̵i̵l̵i̵t̵i̵e̵s̵?̵ ̵W̵o̵u̵l̵d̵n̵t̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵r̵e̵g̵e̵n̵ ̵m̵i̵n̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵r̵o̵a̵t̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵a̵ ̵i̵n̵s̵t̵a̵n̵t̵?̵ a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵r̵e̵g̵e̵n̵ ̵a̵c̵t̵u̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵s̵l̵o̵w̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵ ̵h̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵a̵ ̵c̵r̵u̵s̵h̵e̵d̵ ̵w̵i̵n̵d̵p̵i̵p̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵a̵ ̵s̵e̵c̵o̵n̵d̵?̵

I’ll just go back to our argument till grace is over, cuz you’ve already won.

Then why continue, I got some shit I gotta do, got work in like 2 hours m̵e̵a̵n̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵u̵s̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵t̵i̵m̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵w̵o̵r̵k̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵M̵G̵S̵ ̵C̵R̵T̵

If we're done here, then I'm out.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ok but why, would that even effect his morb ability? He says the strain right after morphing, the text bubbles even linked together, it definitely seems that morphing to that extent, ie, morphing so a spray of bullets pass through, was a bit much compared to his usual morphing. Any reason why the strain is meant to be resultant of the strangle, not the morphing? Not saying I don't believe you, but confirmation or at least hard implication would be cool.
a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵m̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵s̵u̵p̵p̵o̵s̵e̵d̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵,̵ ̵a̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵?̵ ̵W̵h̵y̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵s̵t̵r̵a̵n̵g̵l̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵h̵u̵r̵t̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵m̵u̵c̵h̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵l̵i̵m̵i̵t̵s̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵o̵t̵h̵e̵r̵ ̵a̵b̵i̵l̵i̵t̵i̵e̵s̵?̵ ̵W̵o̵u̵l̵d̵n̵t̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵r̵e̵g̵e̵n̵ ̵m̵i̵n̵o̵r̵ ̵t̵h̵r̵o̵a̵t̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵a̵ ̵i̵n̵s̵t̵a̵n̵t̵?̵


Then why continue, I got some shit I gotta do, got work in like 2 hours m̵e̵a̵n̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵u̵s̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵t̵i̵m̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵w̵o̵r̵k̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵M̵G̵S̵ ̵C̵R̵T̵

If we're done here, then I'm out.

I LITERALLY TOLD YOU THIS 5 TIMES. CHARIOT!!

alright then.
It was fun debating you at first, until you started getting pissed off . Then it became slightly fun again.

I just wanted to get all the points down since no one was arguing for Morbius.

I wanted to see if people knowing about DIO’s over confidence and Morbius’ hypnotism would change their mind but clearly it didn’t. So I voted DIO.

I just kept responding cuz it was fun I guess. Till the whole accusations of me leaving out context on purpose. Which is kinda like a pet peeve of mine, being accused of that at least if it sounded like that.

Welp goodluck at work

 

[Arnoldstone18]

??? "You should ask next time" Trying to take only parts of the context and not the entire context, is ratty af lmfao. It is important that both parties give entire context of X stuff. You not doing this honestly compromises the debate, making it harder for the debate proceed smoothly and come to a conclusion. It's the same as not clearing the road ahead for example, leaving big rocks in the path that obstructs an successful AND Smooth travel.
Do you see the problem now? That shit makes the debate take longer. "Debate tactic" Common sense indicates that you shouldn't be doing this dumb shit. This lowkey reminds me of the discord debate community where people purposefully leaves out context in order to suit their argument, including contradicting info. Cut it off.

I Apologize for the language. I just requested him to take a different approach. I did not intentionally make the debate longer, I tried my best to be as concise as possible but it’s kinda hard with @Chariot190, did you not read the thread?. I usually check the scans for anything that could cause any form of misinterpretation and add more context to it but I’m more knowledgeable in Jojo than Morbius so this was an oversight I guess.

 

[Chariot190]

I LITERALLY TOLD YOU THIS 5 TIMES. CHARIOT!!

No I get that, but why. I'm not asking if he was hurt or how he got hurt.
He got his throat crushed, and then he morbed. But why would the throat crush cause his morb to be heavily limited that badly?
Obviously he was hurt, but is him being hurt why the morbing was strainful or are they two different events that happened in close proximity.

It's entirely possible that you're conflating the two events together. I'm not saying you're wrong, maybe being hurt does strain his ability like that, but maybe he just morbed so hard (he did morb like 20 holes in himself after all) that the extent he did was harder than usual? but idk, so I'm asking if there's confirmation, or at least heavy implication that the throat damage is why his morphing sucked and he couldn't abuse it.
t̵b̵h̵ ̵i̵ ̵d̵o̵ ̵f̵i̵n̵d̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵o̵d̵d̵,̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵u̵l̵d̵n̵t̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵a̵b̵l̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵h̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵a̵ ̵i̵n̵s̵t̵a̵n̵t̵?̵ ̵o̵r̵ ̵u̵s̵e̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵ ̵p̵h̵y̵s̵i̵o̵l̵o̵g̵y̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵g̵i̵v̵e̵ ̵a̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵a̵b̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵m̵i̵n̵o̵r̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵?̵
a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵a̵g̵a̵i̵n̵,̵ ̵w̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵i̵s̵s̵u̵e̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵?̵ ̵I̵'̵m̵ ̵c̵u̵r̵i̵o̵u̵s̵,̵ ̵G̵R̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵c̵o̵o̵l̵

It was fun debating you at first, until you started getting pissed off

Nah I ain't mad, I just say **** a lot. The bolding is just to accentuate my point or to bring attention to specific lines.
Though ngl the whole Jonathan thing was a bit of a annoyance but eh, not anything beyond standard daily shit.

I wanted to see if people knowing about DIO’s over confidence and Morbius’ hypnotism would change their mind but clearly it didn’t. So I voted DIO.

t̵b̵h̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵f̵a̵c̵t̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵'̵r̵e̵ ̵O̵P̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵h̵a̵r̵d̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵D̵i̵o̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵b̵i̵t̵ ̵s̵u̵s̵s̵y̵ ̵b̵r̵o̵

Till the whole accusations of me leaving out context on purpose. Which is kinda like a pet peeve of mine, being accused of that at least if it sounded like that.

b̵u̵t̵ ̵m̵y̵ ̵d̵u̵d̵e̵,̵ ̵y̵a̵ ̵l̵i̵t̵e̵r̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵l̵e̵f̵t̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵h̵u̵g̵e̵ ̵e̵x̵p̵o̵s̵i̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵d̵u̵m̵p̵

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No I get that, but why. I'm not asking if he was hurt or how he got hurt.
He got his throat crushed, and then he morbed. But why would the throat crush cause his morb to be heavily limited that badly?
Obviously he was hurt, but is him being hurt why the morbing was strainful or are they two different events that happened in close proximity.

It's entirely possible that you're conflating the two events together. I'm not saying you're wrong, maybe being hurt does strain his ability like that, but maybe he just morbed so hard (he did morb like 20 holes in himself after all) that the extent he did was harder than usual? but idk, so I'm asking if there's confirmation, or at least heavy implication that the throat damage is why his morphing sucked and he couldn't abuse it.
t̵b̵h̵ ̵i̵ ̵d̵o̵ ̵f̵i̵n̵d̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵o̵d̵d̵,̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵u̵l̵d̵n̵t̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵a̵b̵l̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵h̵e̵a̵l̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵a̵ ̵i̵n̵s̵t̵a̵n̵t̵?̵ ̵o̵r̵ ̵u̵s̵e̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵ ̵p̵h̵y̵s̵i̵o̵l̵o̵g̵y̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵g̵i̵v̵e̵ ̵a̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵t̵ ̵a̵b̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵m̵i̵n̵o̵r̵ ̵d̵a̵m̵a̵g̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵?̵
a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵a̵g̵a̵i̵n̵,̵ ̵w̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵i̵s̵s̵u̵e̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵?̵ ̵I̵'̵m̵ ̵c̵u̵r̵i̵o̵u̵s̵,̵ ̵G̵R̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵c̵o̵o̵l̵

youre probably right, I found one where he morbed his way out of a car crash and bullets went through him.

Also this is Ghost Rider… isn’t he some OP dude with penance stares and regen negation? Idk. Probably PIS since he has survived much much worse.

There could be a limit to his morbing.

Nah I ain't mad, I just say **** a lot. The bolding is just to accentuate my point or to bring attention to specific lines.
Though ngl the whole Jonathan thing was a bit of a annoyance but eh, not anything beyond standard daily shit.

Meh. Understandable.

I’m just sensitive to that stuff I guess, but I’m cool in like a min or so.

t̵b̵h̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵f̵a̵c̵t̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵'̵r̵e̵ ̵O̵P̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵h̵a̵r̵d̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵D̵i̵o̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵b̵i̵t̵ ̵s̵u̵s̵s̵y̵ ̵b̵r̵o̵

First of all, its my first time being OP in this thread. So forgive me for having too much fun defending a character. My main mission was to get my hypnotism, Dio’s overconfidence and sunlight resistance points down. To see if anyone notices them. If anyone chose morb I would’ve remained neutral since you had DIO covered.

 

[Chariot190]

GR? He doesn't have regen neg listed, and I don't recall him negating regen or making it not work, beyond just burning dudes beyond the point where they can't heal from it, not real negation.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I’ll put it in ways for you to comprehend

—————————————————


me: Morbius can morph, look.

chariot; look here, morphing hurts him.

me: nah he was injured before.

chariot: brings it up again later.*

———————————————-


me: Morbius can morph, look.

chariot; okay cool, it seems like it hurts tho, is it due to his morphing?

me: oh nah he was injured before.

—————————————————

Simply requesting him to ask next time instead of making inferences on limited info, isn’t a crime. He can still do whatever he wants I’ll just simply correct him

so you can stfu now or vote. I don’t really care. It’s not that deep.I just read the first sentence, saw a few words that hinted shitty attitude. This is supposed to be fun.

.I just read the first sentence, saw a few words

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I Apologize for the language. I just requested him to take a different approach. I did not intentionally make the debate longer, I tried my best to be as concise as possible but it’s kinda hard with @Chariot190, did you not read the thread?. I usually check the scans for anything that could cause any form of misinterpretation and add more context to it but I’m more knowledgeable in Jojo than Morbius so this was an oversight I guess.

Apology accepted.
I did read it, just noticed that the debate took way longer than necessary. Though, at least its not as bad as these dudes that take literal hours, and even in vc + with a couple of judges. along with the interruptions between eachother, etc...

 

[Shey]

Bump, what's the score tally on this?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

seems like grace is over.