BATTLE OF THE UNDEAD: DIO VS MORBIUS

[Chariot190]

You are allowed to use feats that are not on the profiles by the way. I advocate for using profiles as simply a point of reference among others and also I want to reduce the likelihood of matches not getting removed because of some CRT on either side.

No we aren't? We actually AREN'T allowed to do that, it's sus and a slippery slope, I'm fine with letting that slide for obvious things b̵u̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵i̵c̵s̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵h̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵o̵b̵v̵i̵o̵u̵s̵,̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵a̵l̵l̵ ̵e̵x̵c̵e̵s̵s̵i̵v̵e̵l̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵v̵o̵l̵u̵t̵e̵d̵ ̵, but we aren't actually supposed to whip out nonprofile stuff.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Why the **** would Dio follow him

Didn't he follow Jonathan outside despite being close to sunrise? I'll go verify this and bring scans cuz I cant tell if the memory i have is false.

If the fight even gets to the point where Morb is trying to lead it outdoors, he's probably already dead because that means he actually FOUGHT Dio, and thus would have been flash froze.

Or he could just waltz outside while DIO follows.
By the way, I hope you know it takes DIO 2 seconds to completely freeze, as soon as Morbius sends him flying and sees his hands frozen, he will know to avoid DIO. In fact, cant Morbius send DIO flying outside with his superior AP? That should be a better response to you than just "waltzing outside and he follows".

What the actual ****. That has never happened, ever, not even once, not even implied. Dio has only ever been caught off guard once by not paying attention in the form he's being used in here, and that's because a disembodied head of a dude he just murdered attacked him. He wasn't expecting a lifeless head to do a hamon attack.

No, this is not what I said, I think there was an instance the sun was rising and killing him during one of his encounters with Jonathan. I'll be back with scans on this if any. But refer to what I've said above this quote as a possible way Morbius can force DIO outside. The only downside is Morbius' fist getting frozen, DIO can only freeze the entire body in 2 seconds going all out.


Yes DIO takes precautions but that's probably limited by the fact that he doesn't know his surroundings and he won't expect a punch sending him flying outside.

Lets not forget Dio is also a Genius as well, Morb being a Genius isn't a good reason for him "luring" Dio, especially when Dio himself has shown the intelligence to lure his enemies around mid fight, and so subtly at that, that his foes didn't even realize where they were untill it was to late.
Your argument also relies on Morb figuring out Dio is a vampire, and honestly, if Morb engages Dio at all in actual combat, he's getting frozen and losing, he;s not going to be able to play tag if a requirement is fighting Dio in the first place.

It's still useful in identifying his vampire physiology and exploiting vampiric weaknesses the best way he can.

Also his profile lacks mind res, if we're going with abilities not listed, then see Dio's supernatural will above for example.

No we aren't? We actually AREN'T allowed to do that, it's sus and a slippery slope, I'm fine with letting that slide for obvious things b̵u̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵i̵c̵s̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵h̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵o̵b̵v̵i̵o̵u̵s̵,̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵a̵l̵l̵ ̵e̵x̵c̵e̵s̵s̵i̵v̵e̵l̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵v̵o̵l̵u̵t̵e̵d̵ ̵, but we aren't actually supposed to whip out nonprofile stuff.

No problem then. I won't use off-profile sources.

I am already working on a CRT anyways, so if it gets passed before the match ends would that be cool with you?

 

[Chariot190]

Didn't he follow Jonathan outside despite being close to sunrise? I'll go verify this and bring scans cuz I cant tell if the memory i have is false.

Uh, no? That never happened. The only times he fought Jonathan was in a mansion in the dead of night. In a graveyard when night just started. And in his castle, on the dead of night.

Or he could just waltz outside while DIO follows.

Yeah no, that's stupid ngl. Dio isn't a idiot, he's not following someone outside when the sun is coming up soon.

By the way, I hope you know it takes DIO 2 seconds to completely freeze, as soon as Morbius sends him flying and sees his hands frozen, he will know to avoid DIO. In fact, cant Morbius send DIO flying outside with his superior AP? That should be a better response to you than just "waltzing outside and he follows".

It takes 2 seconds for him to flash freeze a 195cm, 100+ kg man completely. From blood, internals, everything.
It only takes one touch to freeze to the point of incap though, and that's what matters, flash freezing the surface of a body is instant, or flash freezing chunks of the body solid is instant, he doesn't NEED to do a complete freeze to cripple Morb to the point of confirming his victory, one touch is still enough.
If he touches Dio with his hands, legs, or what not, he's losing that part completely on contact, blood flow as well will be halted. And if Dio himself tagged his torso, head, legs or chest, those too will be flash frozen.
And Dio actually has a tendency to do that, he'll tag the legs and limbs, to prevent his foe from moving, or attacking, basically freezing them in place without doing it completely, enabling him to follow up while his foe unable to move.
And he has an AP advantage yeah, but it's less than I thought, he scales to Spidey who's over 4 tons. he has about a 2x advantage over Dio, but that's not enough to actually kill Dio or do anything besides be a small nuisance given Dio's innate abilities.
It's also important to note that Dio is weaker in AP, but has a ludicrous LS advantage, if Dio grabs Morb, or or even just catches one of his hands, Morb is ****** too. Dio can hold him in place and freeze and shatter him to dust and he won't be able to do a thing as Dio has like a 1000x LS advantage.

It's still useful in identifying his vampire physiology and exploiting vampiric weaknesses the best way he can.

Not really, again, Dio's vampiric physiology is NOT the same as Marvel's. Dio himself doesn't even really look like a vampire as they seem in Marvel besides fangs, which Dio only ever showed off once in a fight, of like the dozen instances. (Dio doesn't even drink blood with his fangs at that, he uses his hands and biomanip).

I am already working on a CRT anyways, so if it gets passed before the match ends would that be cool with you?

That's better, but that still seems sus as OP.

Anyway yeah no, Morbius isn't tricking Dio into the sunlight or outside, ever, this is NEVER happening, if anything Dio will go out of his way to block off all exists if he suspects Morb to pull that shit, which he can with ease via SRSE from a distance.
Dio has like a 1000x LS advantage, one touch is enough to incap or take out large chunks of his biomass, and about 2 seconds is enough to freeze someone with more mass than Morbius completely solid, which Dio can readily do anyway with his huge LS advantage. He also has long range attacks if the need comes to, attacks that will bisect Morbius, slicing him in half, blowing his head off, etc. And Dio can use that at extreme range (Reminder, Morb can only heal some organ damage, maybe lost limbs, SRSE slicing him half, blowing a hole through his head, etc, will kill him, and Dio can use this as a surprise attack or from afar).

Morbius' main advantage is AP which doesn't actually let him kill DIO due to DIO's regen being to high to overcome, and mindhax which ngl, still not really buying it as his usual go to lead, it could be a lead, but is it really so common to safely assume that's what he's going to lead with?
Not really. Meanwhile Dio just needs to grab him once and he's done for as the huge LS advantage makes Morb helpless which enables DIO to do a complete freeze without issue (or just a large enough freeze to render him useless), all the while any contact with Dio can be crippling as mere contact will still freeze the part used solid (like arms, legs, or what not), potentially lethal depending where Dio himself strikes (if Dio touches his head once, he wins for example, doesn't even need to freeze his whole body, maybe even a gut punch to flash freeze his torso to break him in half would work too). And if Morb tries to play range or if Dio needs a surprise attack, he can shoot beams with huge range and exceptional slicing/piercing ability that can effortlessly slice through even Dio himself, something that Morb's advantage isn't large enough to enable him to tank without tremendous injury.
If Morb had better regen or far higher AP I'd give it to him, but 2x AP and regen where DIO simply touching him once in the right place (or using his secret weapon) being enough to land a lethal shot is to much imo.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Uh, no? That never happened. The only times he fought Jonathan was in a mansion in the dead of night. In a graveyard when night just started. And in his castle, on the dead of night.

I guess there is no need for me to look.

Yeah no, that's stupid ngl. Dio isn't a idiot, he's not following someone outside when the sun is coming up soon.

Yeah I knew you would say that

It takes 2 seconds for him to flash freeze a 195cm, 100+ kg man completely. From blood, internals, everything.
It only takes one touch to freeze to the point of incap though, and that's what matters, flash freezing the surface of a body is instant, or flash freezing chunks of the body solid is instant, he doesn't NEED to do a complete freeze to cripple Morb to the point of confirming his victory, one touch is still enough.
If he touches Dio with his hands, legs, or what not, he's losing that part completely on contact, blood flow as well will be halted. And if Dio himself tagged his torso, head, legs or chest, those too will be flash frozen.
And Dio actually has a tendency to do that, he'll tag the legs and limbs, to prevent his foe from moving, or attacking, basically freezing them in place without doing it completely, enabling him to follow up while his foe unable to move.
And he has an AP advantage yeah, but it's less than I thought, he scales to Spidey who's over 4 tons. he has about a 2x advantage over Dio, but that's not enough to actually kill Dio or do anything besides be a small nuisance given Dio's innate abilities.
It's also important to note that Dio is weaker in AP, but has a ludicrous LS advantage, if Dio grabs Morb, or or even just catches one of his hands, Morb is ****** too. Dio can hold him in place and freeze and shatter him to dust and he won't be able to do a thing as Dio has like a 1000x LS advantage.

That's better, but that still seems sus as OP.

Anyway yeah no, Morbius isn't tricking Dio into the sunlight or outside, ever, this is NEVER happening, if anything Dio will go out of his way to block off all exists if he suspects Morb to pull that shit, which he can with ease via SRSE from a distance.
Dio has like a 1000x LS advantage, one touch is enough to incap or take out large chunks of his biomass, and about 2 seconds is enough to freeze someone with more mass than Morbius completely solid, which Dio can readily do anyway with his huge LS advantage. He also has long range attacks if the need comes to, attacks that will bisect Morbius, slicing him in half, blowing his head off, etc. And Dio can use that at extreme range (Reminder, Morb can only heal some organ damage, maybe lost limbs, SRSE slicing him half, blowing a hole through his head, etc, will kill him, and Dio can use this as a surprise attack or from afar).

Morbius' main advantage is AP which doesn't actually let him kill DIO due to DIO's regen being to high to overcome, and mindhax which ngl, still not really buying it as his usual go to lead, it could be a lead, but is it really so common to safely assume that's what he's going to lead with?
Not really. Meanwhile Dio just needs to grab him once and he's done for as the huge LS advantage makes Morb helpless which enables DIO to do a complete freeze without issue (or just a large enough freeze to render him useless), all the while any contact with Dio can be crippling as mere contact will still freeze the part used solid (like arms, legs, or what not), potentially lethal depending where Dio himself strikes (if Dio touches his head once, he wins for example, doesn't even need to freeze his whole body, maybe even a gut punch to flash freeze his torso to break him in half would work too). And if Morb tries to play range or if Dio needs a surprise attack, he can shoot beams with huge range and exceptional slicing/piercing ability that can effortlessly slice through even Dio himself, something that Morb's advantage isn't large enough to enable him to tank without tremendous injury.
If Morb had better regen or far higher AP I'd give it to him, but 2x AP and regen where DIO simply touching him once in the right place (or using his secret weapon) being enough to land a lethal shot is to much imo.

Yes, it takes 2 seconds to freeze a 195cm character, 100+ kg human at the same level of durability completely. At first glance that could seem like Morbius would be frozen faster. However, your analysis ignores the 2x physical durability, forcing DIO to remove twice as much heat as he would if Morbius had the same durability as Jonathan. The level of durability is also a factor to determine the amount of heat energy a body possesses. 2x Durability at least offsets the lacking mass and height. Morbius's ability to increase certain body parts in size can also be able to slightly offset the flash freeze timeframe difference between himself and Jonathan even more. Well, that's IF DIO grabs him, will DIO start by grabbing Mobius? I agree DIO has the advantage in Lifting strength. However, another thing is DIO's character, as you have ment ned, is sadistic in nature, forcing him to start by going for parts of the limb, so DIO won't start by grabbing him to freeze him. DIO also tends to talk a lot, unfortunately, this is another weakness of overconfidence. Morbius will also liquefy his frozen body to escape being frozen. All of this we have mentioned just forces Morbius to resort to Hypnosis immediately to stop the freezing and incap DIO assuming he does not already start with this.
Not only would shit like Mobius' enhanced senses spotting the obvious fangs, etc. I honestly believe DIO would reveal himself as a Vampire due to his overconfidence. You are right, Mobius may not need to intricately outsmart DIO into telling him that he is a vampire, DIO will do so himself due to his fat ego. Mobius will exploit the vampiric weaknesses in his verse, the only thing readily available to him will be the sunlight in about 20-30 min. Everything said in the first paragraph should allow him to last that long.
Yes, I am aware the AP difference isn't enough to kill DIO but like I said it can at least send him flying out of the Hotel if their fight lasts till daybreak. In fact, his hypnosis should command DIO to straight-up walk out the door too but that may not be needed as simply putting DIO in a state of paralysis gives Morbius the win. Hypnosis is quite a versatile tool in this match-up. Morbius uses that thing very often.



'btw I just realized the profile has all the abilities except one, so I won't need to do a CRT after all.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah I knew you would say that

I mean, yeah, because it is, Dio isn't an actual idiot, he'd have to be to walk outside minutes from sunrise against a foe he doesn't know if he can beat in time, and it also spits in the face of how cautious he otherwise has been shown to be when it comes to sunlight, even his minions are very cautious, as you'd expect, because it kills them.

Yes, it takes 2 seconds to freeze a 195cm character, 100+ kg human at the same level of durability completely.

You do know durability doesn't matter right? They could be 10-C or 4-A, Dio's freezing is hax, he rips the heat from their body, flash freezing them by vaporizing the moisture in his body. All that matters is mass and if they can resist the ability or not.
Morbius' durability doesn't matter here, at all, he could be stronger or weaker than Dio, what matters is mass. It would take Dio a few seconds to freeze an elephant solid, but it would take him like half a second to freeze someone like Teen Gohan solid despite there being an utterly stupid huge difference (unless he has some res? idk I havent checked, I was just using an example of a strong but small character).
Morbius would be better off having a fever and being 1000kg but being 10-C in order to mitigate the flash freeze then just being a bit stronger.

At first glance that could seem like Morbius would be frozen faster. However, your analysis ignores the 2x physical durability, forcing DIO to remove twice as much heat as he would if Morbius had the same durability as Jonathan.

?????????????????????????????
That isn't how this works my dude, it's mass, it's hax, it's literally a durability negating ability. Of course I didn't factor in durability, I didn't forget, it just isn't a factor.

The level of durability is also a factor to determine the amount of heat energy a body possesses.

Lol no it isn't wtf? By that logic a 9-B lava golem is stronger than a 3-A ice demon. Even though that isn't how it works? In anything really.

2x Durability at least offsets the lacking mass and height.

No it doesn't, either he has mass or he's innately hot as **** (as in heat, obviously Dio would have a harder time freezing something with like a body temp of 1000 degrees than something with a normal body temperature).

Morbius's ability to increase certain body parts in size can also be able to slightly offset the flash freeze timeframe difference between himself and Jonathan even more.

I wasn't even talking about Jonathan, I was talking about the dude Dio actually froze solid, being Dire.
And that's assuming he knows its coming, let's not act like Morbius is going to get many chances, if Morbius is in CQC with Dio and gets frozen, he's already pretty ****** as he's in arm's reach or even legs reach of Dio (Dio can do this through his leg, not just hands or arms, as shown when he froze over Jonathan's leg by stomping on it), also Dio can just like, aim somewhere else? Why would he aim for the huge anchor aims instead of like, the head?
Dio has the means to freeze on contact, with a touch of his hands, legs, probably even head, and it's not just his contact but any contact Morb makes with him as well. The only way Morb would pick up on this is when he's already being frozen and by then, he's pretty ******, ESPECIALLY as that's assuming he lands the first hit, if Dio gets the first hit, he wins as Dio would aim to incap or straight up kill in the first blow if he isn't aiming to recruit. Or if Morb attacks with fangs, he's dead there too, or if he gets his torso touched, bam dead, etc. Way to much going against him, if he enters CQC it's pretty much Dio's win. The only way Morb would have a chance of getting away from Dio's flash freeze is if he's just so fighting the Dio who hasn't actually perfected or tested it yet, but we're not using that Dio, that Dio doesn't even have a key.

Well, that's IF DIO grabs him, will DIO start by grabbing Mobius?

Probably? Dio actively goes out of his way to flash freeze, it's his main offensive ability and something he actually made to counter all his foes he'd come across, and that's the best way to do it, and we've seen him grab dudes before, like when Dire jumped at him, Dio grabbed him a̵n̵d̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵n̵ ̵f̵r̵o̵z̵e̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵s̵o̵l̵i̵d̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵s̵h̵a̵t̵t̵e̵r̵e̵d̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵i̵n̵t̵o̵ ̵a̵ ̵m̵i̵l̵l̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵p̵i̵e̵c̵e̵s̵
So yes actually, I can safely say EoP 1 Dio would attempt to grab in order to freeze if the fight enters melee. It's his main goal in a fight, freeze the foe solid, hell he'll even leave himself open if he thinks it'll let him get in a flash freeze. This is something that could easily trick Morb, blowing holes through Dio, even ripping him in half, unlike his vampires, that's not gonna stop Dio and we see with Jonathan he'd take a hit like that if it lets him further his end game.

I agree DIO has the advantage in Lifting strength. However, another thing is DIO's character, as you have ment ned, is sadistic in nature, forcing him to start by going for parts of the limb, so DIO won't start by grabbing him to freeze him.

Wrong. He went for limbs to limit Jonathan's mobility or ability to fight back, not because he was sadistic. He is sadistic but you're confusing his sadism with why he did a thing. You're twisting Dio's actual character here, Dio is definitely an arrogant asshole but he's not dumb, he even learns from his mistakes so they don't happen again, hell by the time Part 3 rolls around he's super cautious to where it actively pisses off the main characters because half their plans don't work on him. If Dio actually gets Morb in his grasp, he instantly loses, Dio is just gonna straight up do what he did to Dire and shatter him to bits.

DIO also tends to talk a lot, unfortunately, this is another weakness of overconfidence.

Yeah, talk to his adopted brother he has a vendetta against or against his friends because Dio hates them. Dio isn't going to be running his mouth against some actual demon looking dude, he's going to be like "oh ****, it's a demon/vampire". Give an actual reason why Dio would give Morb his life story, he wouldn't.
And if you actually seriously want to argue something like that, 20$ says I can find examples of Morb talking before fighting or in the middle of a fight too.

Also let's remind you, Dio learns from his mistakes. His underestimation of Jonathan ****** him over, so you know what he did the next time they fought? Kill him right away, with the talking he did there serving to distract him from the SRSE. And come Part 3, minus that time with Jotaro or when recruiting, he's exceptionally ruthless, was going to kill Pol the moment he refused to join, murked Joseph and avoided Joseph's traps, the moment he was done testing Jotaro he immediately went in to blow a hole through him, Kakyoin just got ****** hard tbh was made a bloody mess by simply coming within 10m of DIO, and so on, Joseph even confirming Dio tried to murder them all in one go from behind without even talking to them when they entered his room, something that spooked them all so bad, they jumped out of the windows to escape.

Morbius will also liquefy his frozen body to escape being frozen.

That isn't gonna work, he's frozen. Not the same thing as his natural body being able to morph, if anything being frozen solid is a hard counter to that. As being frozen is a state shift from liquid to solid. So unfortunately no, this wouldn't work, in fact, flash freeze is a perfect counter to that.

All of this we have mentioned just forces Morbius to resort to Hypnosis immediately to stop the freezing and incap DIO assuming he does not already start with this.

Except lol no, why do you honestly think Morb is getting away or is even gonna have time to think this over?Dio punches him in the gut, bam dead. Dio touches his head, bam dead. Dio grabs him, bam dead. So on and so forth, there is very, very, little chances of Morb ever escaping if he engages CQC, and almost no chance he's going to have a chance to test all these things or think to counter it before it's to late. That's not even getting into DIO's SRSE that also, would maim or kill Morb, which can use as a surprise attack or from afar.

Not only would shit like Mobius' enhanced senses spotting the obvious fangs, etc.

Dio's fangs ngl are kind of tiny compared to marvel vampires, as said, they aren't really the same thing, if anything Morb would pick up on the numerous differences. Not the literally only thing that's similar.

I honestly believe DIO would reveal himself as a Vampire due to his overconfidence.

Why, Dio doesn't even reveal himself as a vampire, he always just says he's beyond human when he does shit talk, he never actually says he's a vampire. And even then, why the **** would Dio run his mouth against Morb.

You are right, Mobius may not need to intricately outsmart DIO into telling him that he is a vampire, DIO will do so himself due to his fat ego.

Again, see above. Honestly no offense, but you're kind of grasping at straws here, Dio isn't going to be doing that, Dio's egotistical, not a ******* idiot, stop acting like he is.

Mobius will exploit the vampiric weaknesses in his verse, the only thing readily available to him will be the sunlight in about 20-30 min.

Where the **** are they fight where the sun rises at 5am???? And if that's the case, Dio's not going to allow that to happen, he's going to close off all exists to outside or ways for light to enter immediately, probably with his only real longe range attack, and if he's already using his long range attack, nothing is stopping him from sweeping the area and taking Morb out.

Everything said in the first paragraph should allow him to last that long.

No, not really, again, they get into CQC? He's dead.Morbtries to run away? SRSE is coming out which would kill him as well as cave in any exists.

Yes, I am aware the AP difference isn't enough to kill DIO but like I said it can at least send him flying out of the Hotel if their fight lasts till daybreak.

If, keyword, IF, their fight lasts that long. The fight isn't even going to last a few minutes, either Morb leads with mindhax right away, or he tries to run away and gets sliced in half by laser beams or he tries to get into hand to hand and just gets haxed to death because any touch can be crippling, head or body shots would be lethal, and if Dio so much as grabs him once he's incap and then super dead.

In fact, his hypnosis should command DIO to straight-up walk out the door too but that may not be needed as simply putting DIO in a state of paralysis gives Morbius the win. Hypnosis is quite a versatile tool in this match-up. Morbius uses that thing very often.

Yeah, now prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that Morbius uses mindhax as a lead, more often than melee or anything else. Morbius has a single actual win condition, while Dio has multiple, one of which is just looking at Morb funny and turning his head and the other is just touching him. Dio wins long range or CQC, luring isn't ever happening and would just get Morb killed if he even tried that, and melee gets him killed again. He has one real win condition, that's it, and it only works if he uses it before he engages or flees.

I also want to point out, again, 2 seconds is for complete freezing, internally and externally.

If it's just flash freezing them enough to render them immobile, it can be done in a "instant" (which leaves them open to freeze solid completely). (I also want to point out being without context that sounds like he's doing it to his foe, but he's actually vaporizing the moisture in his own body not the foes).

Nothing has changed imo, Morb has one win condition he might not even go for and something he has to use before he gets himself killed, while engaging DIO directly is death and long range is also death because beams go brrrrrrrr and Morb can't regen from having his head sliced off or being sliced in half (And Dio ACTIVELY aims for the brain when doing this, both times it's stated he aimed for the brain). I'm even willing to say you arguing Morb would try and lure Dio outside that many times is just reason why Dio would win, as all that's gonna do is proc him to use his long range superkill move, so your "win con" for Morb there is gonna backfire if anything. Flash Freeze is gonna **** Morb on contact or if Dio manages to touch him, instant incap, leading into death a second or two later. Dio has 3 viable leads to victory, Morb has one.

 

[Shey]

I am a JOJO stan.

Another wincon thanks to the first one is as follows: Morbius, knowing he can also survive a day under Intense direct sunlight, will bring the fight outdoors due to his genius intelligence in identifying DIO's vampiric characteristics and figuring out a way to force him outdoors without him knowing his plan,

This premise makes no sense, DIO looks like a regular human barring fangs.

And if Morbius who is averse to Sunlight somehow figures out DIO is also a vampire like him, there is no reason he would try to drag him out into Sunlight with him, that makes no sense .

Also it's about 2-3 hours to Sun Rise, their battle can't last long enough as DIO just flash freezes and shatters him the moment they connect.

 

[Arceus0x]

Tbh Dio FRA, it feels like something way more viable than what Morb has

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean, yeah, because it is, Dio isn't an actual idiot, he'd have to be to walk outside minutes from sunrise against a foe he doesn't know if he can beat in time, and it also spits in the face of how cautious he otherwise has been shown to be when it comes to sunlight, even his minions are very cautious, as you'd expect, because it kills them.

No problemo

You do know durability doesn't matter right? They could be 10-C or 4-A, Dio's freezing is hax, he rips the heat from their body, flash freezing them by vaporizing the moisture in his body. All that matters is mass and if they can resist the ability or not.
Morbius' durability doesn't matter here, at all, he could be stronger or weaker than Dio, what matters is mass. It would take Dio a few seconds to freeze an elephant solid, but it would take him like half a second to freeze someone like Teen Gohan solid despite there being an utterly stupid huge difference (unless he has some res? idk I havent checked, I was just using an example of a strong but small character).
Morbius would be better off having a fever and being 1000kg but being 10-C in order to mitigate the flash freeze then just being a bit stronger.

Why not? Well, I don't want to get into that since its not how the Wiki rates characters. We mostly just rate according to resistances since fiction can be very inconsistent. So I will drop the durability point.

?????????????????????????????
That isn't how this works my dude, it's mass, it's hax, it's literally a durability negating ability. Of course I didn't factor in durability, I didn't forget, it just isn't a factor.


Lol no it isn't wtf? By that logic a 9-B lava golem is stronger than a 3-A ice demon. Even though that isn't how it works? In anything really.


No it doesn't, either he has mass or he's innately hot as **** (as in heat, obviously Dio would have a harder time freezing something with like a body temp of 1000 degrees than something with a normal body temperature).

yeah, I don't want to explain my reasoning for this since the wiki doesn't work that way, but it has to do with density.

We don't scale characters like that due to the many many inconsistencies in fiction, so using the durability logic will probably neg any chances of this match being added loooll.

I'll drop that point.

I wasn't even talking about Jonathan, I was talking about the dude Dio actually froze solid, being Dire.
And that's assuming he knows its coming, let's not act like Morbius is going to get many chances, if Morbius is in CQC with Dio and gets frozen, he's already pretty ****** as he's in arm's reach or even legs reach of Dio (Dio can do this through his leg, not just hands or arms, as shown when he froze over Jonathan's leg by stomping on it), also Dio can just like, aim somewhere else? Why would he aim for the huge anchor aims instead of like, the head?
Dio has the means to freeze on contact, with a touch of his hands, legs, probably even head, and it's not just his contact but any contact Morb makes with him as well. The only way Morb would pick up on this is when he's already being frozen and by then, he's pretty ******, ESPECIALLY as that's assuming he lands the first hit, if Dio gets the first hit, he wins as Dio would aim to incap or straight up kill in the first blow if he isn't aiming to recruit. Or if Morb attacks with fangs, he's dead there too, or if he gets his torso touched, bam dead, etc. Way to much going against him, if he enters CQC it's pretty much Dio's win. The only way Morb would have a chance of getting away from Dio's flash freeze is if he's just so fighting the Dio who hasn't actually perfected or tested it yet, but we're not using that Dio, that Dio doesn't even have a key.


Probably? Dio actively goes out of his way to flash freeze, it's his main offensive ability and something he actually made to counter all his foes he'd come across, and that's the best way to do it, and we've seen him grab dudes before, like when Dire jumped at him, Dio grabbed him a̵n̵d̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵n̵ ̵f̵r̵o̵z̵e̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵s̵o̵l̵i̵d̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵s̵h̵a̵t̵t̵e̵r̵e̵d̵ ̵h̵i̵m̵ ̵i̵n̵t̵o̵ ̵a̵ ̵m̵i̵l̵l̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵p̵i̵e̵c̵e̵s̵
So yes actually, I can safely say EoP 1 Dio would attempt to grab in order to freeze if the fight enters melee. It's his main goal in a fight, freeze the foe solid, hell he'll even leave himself open if he thinks it'll let him get in a flash freeze. This is something that could easily trick Morb, blowing holes through Dio, even ripping him in half, unlike his vampires, that's not gonna stop Dio and we see with Jonathan he'd take a hit like that if it lets him further his end game.


Wrong. He went for limbs to limit Jonathan's mobility or ability to fight back, not because he was sadistic. He is sadistic but you're confusing his sadism with why he did a thing. You're twisting Dio's actual character here, Dio is definitely an arrogant asshole but he's not dumb, he even learns from his mistakes so they don't happen again, hell by the time Part 3 rolls around he's super cautious to where it actively pisses off the main characters because half their plans don't work on him. If Dio actually gets Morb in his grasp, he instantly loses, Dio is just gonna straight up do what he did to Dire and shatter him to bits.

Yeah, talk to his adopted brother he has a vendetta against or against his friends because Dio hates them. Dio isn't going to be running his mouth against some actual demon looking dude, he's going to be like "oh ****, it's a demon/vampire". Give an actual reason why Dio would give Morb his life story, he wouldn't.
And if you actually seriously want to argue something like that, 20$ says I can find examples of Morb talking before fighting or in the middle of a fight too.

Also let's remind you, Dio learns from his mistakes. His underestimation of Jonathan ****** him over, so you know what he did the next time they fought? Kill him right away, with the talking he did there serving to distract him from the SRSE. And come Part 3, minus that time with Jotaro or when recruiting, he's exceptionally ruthless, was going to kill Pol the moment he refused to join, murked Joseph and avoided Joseph's traps, the moment he was done testing Jotaro he immediately went in to blow a hole through him, Kakyoin just got ****** hard tbh was made a bloody mess by simply coming within 10m of DIO, and so on, Joseph even confirming Dio tried to murder them all in one go from behind without even talking to them when they entered his room, something that spooked them all so bad, they jumped out of the windows to escape.


That isn't gonna work, he's frozen. Not the same thing as his natural body being able to morph, if anything being frozen solid is a hard counter to that. As being frozen is a state shift from liquid to solid. So unfortunately no, this wouldn't work, in fact, flash freeze is a perfect counter to that.


Except lol no, why do you honestly think Morb is getting away or is even gonna have time to think this over?Dio punches him in the gut, bam dead. Dio touches his head, bam dead. Dio grabs him, bam dead. So on and so forth, there is very, very, little chances of Morb ever escaping if he engages CQC, and almost no chance he's going to have a chance to test all these things or think to counter it before it's to late. That's not even getting into DIO's SRSE that also, would maim or kill Morb, which can use as a surprise attack or from afar.


Dio's fangs ngl are kind of tiny compared to marvel vampires, as said, they aren't really the same thing, if anything Morb would pick up on the numerous differences. Not the literally only thing that's similar.


Why, Dio doesn't even reveal himself as a vampire, he always just says he's beyond human when he does shit talk, he never actually says he's a vampire. And even then, why the **** would Dio run his mouth against Morb.


Again, see above. Honestly no offense, but you're kind of grasping at straws here, Dio isn't going to be doing that, Dio's egotistical, not a ******* idiot, stop acting like he is.


Where the **** are they fight where the sun rises at 5am???? And if that's the case, Dio's not going to allow that to happen, he's going to close off all exists to outside or ways for light to enter immediately, probably with his only real longe range attack, and if he's already using his long range attack, nothing is stopping him from sweeping the area and taking Morb out.


No, not really, again, they get into CQC? He's dead.Morbtries to run away? SRSE is coming out which would kill him as well as cave in any exists.


If, keyword, IF, their fight lasts that long. The fight isn't even going to last a few minutes, either Morb leads with mindhax right away, or he tries to run away and gets sliced in half by laser beams or he tries to get into hand to hand and just gets haxed to death because any touch can be crippling, head or body shots would be lethal, and if Dio so much as grabs him once he's incap and then super dead.


Yeah, now prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that Morbius uses mindhax as a lead, more often than melee or anything else. Morbius has a single actual win condition, while Dio has multiple, one of which is just looking at Morb funny and turning his head and the other is just touching him. Dio wins long range or CQC, luring isn't ever happening and would just get Morb killed if he even tried that, and melee gets him killed again. He has one real win condition, that's it, and it only works if he uses it before he engages or flees.

I also want to point out, again, 2 seconds is for complete freezing, internally and externally.
If it's just flash freezing them enough to render them immobile, it can be done in a "instant" (which leaves them open to freeze solid completely). (I also want to point out being without context that sounds like he's doing it to his foe, but he's actually vaporizing the moisture in his own body not the foes).

Nothing has changed imo, Morb has one win condition he might not even go for and something he has to use before he gets himself killed, while engaging DIO directly is death and long range is also death because beams go brrrrrrrr and Morb can't regen from having his head sliced off or being sliced in half (And Dio ACTIVELY aims for the brain when doing this, both times it's stated he aimed for the brain). I'm even willing to say you arguing Morb would try and lure Dio outside that many times is just reason why Dio would win, as all that's gonna do is proc him to use his long range superkill move, so your "win con" for Morb there is gonna backfire if anything. Flash Freeze is gonna **** Morb on contact or if Dio manages to touch him, instant incap, leading into death a second or two later. Dio has 3 viable leads to victory, Morb has one.

Morbius likely starts with hypnosis, but let's talk about the possible scenario he doesn't start with Hypnosis. DIO has the ability to freeze Morbius for a bit less than 2 seconds right? If the mass is the only factor. Then a simple calculation would bring the number of seconds needed to freeze Morbius will be 1.5s or using Jojo's weight 1.46s.

Morbius has experience with characters like spiderman. Morbius' dodging skills shouldn't be something to sleep on too much. However, this doesn't make him completely dodge DIO. Morbius is capable of liquifying and manipulating his body to dodge attacks too. This would be his best-dodging strategy. Morbius is capable of lengthening his body, he mostly just lengthens his claws for greater reach. He will most likely hit DIO and his claws would get frozen. Then he will resort to hypnosis. If DIO touches him slightly to freeze him "instantly" or if Mobius lands a punch, the part of his body will get frozen and he can still escape by liquifying his frozen body and easily breaking away his frozen tissue/skin. I am not exactly sure why you disagree with my reasoning behind liquification, since the removal of heat is just the reduction in kinetic energy and liquefication results in the increase of kinetic energy of molecules. If you claim that won't work then if Morbius gets frozen, he will simply resort to hypnosis. I would've accepted your disagreement if the flash freezing affected Morbius' blood. So what if that happens instead? You already know what ill say so my apologies if saying it annoys you.

Hypnotism works via eye contact. Assuming Morbius doesn't start with this, he will 100% resort to this when faced with any difficulty. He is very casual with this ability, for him not to start with it. If Morbius starts by landing the first hit, that specific body part gets frozen. If DIO strikes him, the part where DIO strikes will freeze him. If DIO holds him, Morbius will freeze in 1.5s. In all those cases Morbius resorts to Hypnosis immediately. It may look like that is his only wincon, but that is his most important and damn well versatile wincon.

What other wincon does Dio have apart from Flash Freezing? Ranged attacks? Lol morb easily negs ranged attacks by liquifying his body. Including his brain. You've seen the scan for that and I can throw in this too. DIO has no other decent wincon apart from flash freezing.

Well, I'm not voting till others vote, and my vote would just be a catalyst for whoever is winning so that the match would end quickly ONLY WHEN THIS THREAD DIES. If the thread doesn't die then I may not vote at all. So who are you voting for?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Tbh Dio FRA, it feels like something way more viable than what Morb has

counted. but refer to the paragraph of my last post if you ever change your mind.

 

[Chariot190]

Why not? Well, I don't want to get into that since its not how the Wiki rates characters. We mostly just rate according to resistances since fiction can be very inconsistent. So I will drop the durability point.

Because durability has literally NOTHING to do with how the ability functions? It'd be like arguing because someone has good durability they can resist soul hax. Obviously, that simply isn't true.

yeah, I don't want to explain my reasoning for this since the wiki doesn't work that way, but it has to do with density.

Except Morb isn't super giga dense, for example, 616 Spiderman is on par with Morbius (I'd assume anyway when it comes to heights and weights), in fact it's where Morb gets his scaling and rating from, and he's only 76kg and 178cm. He isn't dense, he's literally normal, has the mass you expect with the size he is, he has standard density, and so does Morb, and do does like 99% of every other character in fiction.

We don't scale characters like that due to the many many inconsistencies in fiction, so using the durability logic will probably neg any chances of this match being added loooll.

Like the ONLY thing I can think of that where durability = density is Kryptonians, and that's only SOMETIMES. And it's specifically bone density.

Morbius likely starts with hypnosis,

Ok prove it, prove that Morbius's most consistent and most common lead is hypnosis, prove that statistically, and in character, it's his most common lead. I'm not talking "oh he's lead with it before" or "he uses it often", I'm talking prove it's his most common and consistent opening move. Because that's what needs to be the case.

but let's talk about the possible scenario he doesn't start with Hypnosis. DIO has the ability to freeze Morbius for a bit less than 2 seconds right? If the mass is the only factor. Then a simple calculation would bring the number of seconds needed to freeze Morbius will be 1.5s or using Jojo's weight 1.46s.

It'd be less actually, it's not linear, that's not how freezing works. It'd be exponentially less due to wacky things involving volume and chemical changes and stuff. but, again, he doesn't NEED to freeze him completely, he just needs one touch to render him immobile, a second or two for total freezing internally as well.

Morbius has experience with characters like spiderman. Morbius' dodging skills shouldn't be something to sleep on too much. However, this doesn't make him completely dodge DIO. Morbius is capable of liquifying and manipulating his body to dodge attacks too. This would be his best-dodging strategy.

If he's already in CQC, Morb is ******, ONE TOUCH literally one graze is all Dio needs to incapacitate him completely. And that's INCLUDING when he's a liquid, if anything that'd just make it less difficult for him. And no, that would be his worst dodging strategy, as Morb himself ON THAT SAME PAGE says it caused him strain, so much so, that Ghost Rider was able to easily punch him in the head. Now imagine if that was Dio, Morb turns to liquid to dodge a handful of simultaneous strikes, but it strains the **** out of him, and now he's an open duck and Dio punches him in the head flash freezing his head and shattering it. Congratulations, Morb just got himself killed using the technique you said was his best chance.

Morbius is capable of lengthening his body, he mostly just lengthens his claws for greater reach. He will most likely hit DIO and his claws would get frozen. Then he will resort to hypnosis.

Yeah, he is capable of lengthening it, and then he lengthens it and gets frozen, wow, he's ****** again. And you're really grasping at that aren't you?

If DIO touches him slightly to freeze him "instantly" or if Mobius lands a punch, the part of his body will get frozen and he can still escape by liquifying his frozen body and easily breaking away his frozen tissue/skin.

My dude, you realize that instant flash freeze he did covered someone's whole body right? If Dio makes contact even once, Morb is ******, there is no other outcome, liquifying his frozen solid body isn't a option, he's frozen solid, it's literally a hard counter to him doing that. Morb breaking off and shattering like half his body is beyond his regen too, so that's not helping. And if Dio so much as grazes his head, torso or so on, he's also dead because he can't regen from that damage.

I am not exactly sure why you disagree with my reasoning behind liquification, since the removal of heat is just the reduction in kinetic energy and liquefication results in the increase of kinetic energy of molecules.

Because he's frozen solid, he has to prove he can liquify himself when his state of matter has been forcefully changed. This is like arguing he could liquify himself if he was turned to stone or something, the answer is hell no, he wouldn't be able to do shit from that, he'd be just as ****** there, as he is in this situation. he needs feats to do what you're saying he can do, without them, he gets frozen because that's the logical conclusion.

If you claim that won't work then if Morbius gets frozen, he will simply resort to hypnosis. I would've accepted your disagreement if the flash freezing affected Morbius' blood. So what if that happens instead? You already know what ill say so my apologies if saying it annoys you.

Also no, he wouldn't, you realize if Morb's head is frozen or what not, or if most of his biomass is frozen, he wouldn't resort to anything right? Because he'd be dead. He might be a vampire, but he isn't going to be cognizant when his brain is turned into ice, or when so much of his body is ice that he dies because his Type 2 immortality doesn't cover such extensive damage to himself.
BRUH what the ****. The flash freezing DOES freeze the blood, that's LITERALLY why Dio made it, he made the technique so it would stop the circulation of blood in his foe's bodies, specifically Hamon dudes, thus preventing blood flow and thus preventing their ability to conjure Hamon. It's also why he couldn't freeze Jonathan beyond just small bits of him, because if he did he'd stop his blood flow and thus, be unable to inject with vampiric essence into his blood to make him a minion.
The whole point of the technique is to freeze the blood first and foremost.

Hypnotism works via eye contact. Assuming Morbius doesn't start with this, he will 100% resort to this when faced with any difficulty. He is very casual with this ability, for him not to start with it.

Eye contact? While frozen? I hope you realize how much harder that's gonna be to do right?
And 5 examples isn't enough, I need you, to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, Morbius most common lead is that, just that, while in a fighting scenario. Because some of those VERY examples are bad, in some of those he strikes first and engages in CQC, and in one he even tackled, things that would have get him killed here, even in your examples he doesn't actually lead with it bar one. Also you were talking about how Dio runs his mouth in a fight but Morbius looks just as guilty of that.

If Morbius starts by landing the first hit, that specific body part gets frozen.

Before dying because he's in CQC now and Dio himself just needs one strike to kill him.

If DIO strikes him, the part where DIO strikes will freeze him.

No he'd be dead as ****, remember, he isn't fighting Jonathan here, against Jonathan he explicitly held back on his freezing ability, because he wanted Jonathan's blood flow to remain so he could turn Jonathan into a zombie. Jonathan himself even points this out, and says that's why Dio lost to him.

If DIO holds him, Morbius will freeze in 1.5s. In all those cases Morbius resorts to Hypnosis immediately. It may look like that is his only wincon, but that is his most important and damn well versatile wincon.

No he'd be frozen instantly to the point of incap. If he holds on for a second longer, then he'd be frozen solid.

And yeah, it IS his only win condition. And no, he wouldn't resort to it immediately, because he'd be frozen. You realize Morb can't break out of a surface freeze either right? Especially not with that Class LS. From there a few extra moments and he's dead, and I don't think he's going to flash freezing when his head is frozen and he can't even look at Dio.
Hell the only reason why Dire's head was uneffected was because of Hamon magic, and it STILL froze solid and shattered upon his death, it was just delayed.

What other wincon does Dio have apart from Flash Freezing? Ranged attacks? Lol morb easily negs ranged attacks by liquifying his body. Including his brain.

Yes actually, SRSE would blow him apart as a Liquid, it's ludicrously high pressure, despite being a piercing attack, it blew off like half of Straizo's head, it's like a high powered rifle vs a human.
And mind you, Dio can spam this, and as we see, in your OWN scan of him using liquid to dodge, it's strainful and he can't spam it and it leaves him open for a counter attack.
So cool, Morb turns to liquid, dodges the huge hundred meter arcing sweep of SRSE, and then Dio just turns his head back and does it again. Morb can dodge maybe one of these, maybe two tops, and when all Dio needs to do is like, turn his head slightly to create giant arcs, and it being something he can spam at that, yeah no, Morb is dead if they play long range and even with liquid morphing that's going to save him for maybe a total of five seconds.

You've seen the scan for that and I can throw in this too. DIO has no other decent wincon apart from flash freezing.

What the hell is this supposed to do? I'm not arguing Dio blows a hole through his chest, I'm arguing Dio does holes like that TO HIS HEAD, as Dio is explicitly stated to have aimed for the brain in intent to destroy it EVERYTIME he's used it, and the only other way Dio has used it was by SWEEPING IT, bisecting and slicing dudes in half. Morb doesn't have the ability to survive being sliced in half or having his head blown off. So as i said, SRSE is also a win condition, and if Morb plays that long range game, something you argued extensively for, so don't think I'm just gonna pretend you didn't say that's something Morb would do in character, aka something he'd do in character that opens him up tojust being taken out by lasers.

Well, I'm not voting till others vote, and my vote would just be a catalyst for whoever is winning so that the match would end quickly ONLY WHEN THIS THREAD DIES. If the thread doesn't die then I may not vote at all. So who are you voting for?

Dio obviously, no offense but your arguments rely on things simply not working the way they work, for Dio to be a dumbass and walk outside, for Morb to instantly and immediately use his mindhax and not ANYTHING else because anything thing else he does leads to him dying, for Morb's liquid ability to protect from freezing (it doesn't), for Dio to simply not get a hit in himself (Because one touch and he wins, he can flash freeze enough of the body in a mere graze to incap, or if he hits his torso or head, he automatically wins too as Morb can't come back from that), if Morb himself touches Dio that whole chunk of his body is frozen, Dio also has a long range beam move that can slice or blow apart Morb;s head, and liquid dodging isn't a viable counter as Morb can't keep that up while Dio literally just needs to turn his head (And given Dio aims for the brain, and even just being sliced apart is going to kill Morb, this is a fine counter). And the only real counter you have to this is "it takes a few seconds", but forgetting that only takes a few seconds when he's freezing completely and just freezing the surface of them is instant, which renders them immobile, which lets him freeze them completely, and then forgetting he actually gimped his freezing against Jonathan (Also his freezing stops blood flow and freezes the blood). Also LS, and it's important to note Dio has other methods of restricting or limiting Morb's ability to dodge or move, I've only been talking about what actually kills Morb, (and luckily it's something Dio is doing at all times so we don't have to argue about if he'd use it right away), if we wanna talk things that can help Dio get his wincon, there's quite a bit more.

Dio needs one touch to win, one touch would be enough to freeze to the point of incap and to render Morb incapable of retaliating back in any method. Long range Dio also wins via giga **** beams. Morb must lead with mindhax, or he loses, and even in the scans he uses mindhax, it's shown he still sometimes exchanges blows first, I don't think I have to explain why that's not going to work.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You respond to bits and pieces of my arguments... READ THE WHOLE THING AND YOU'LL SAVE TIME

 

[Chariot190]

I replied to literally everything you said my dude.

Regardless, argument not good imo.
Some of what you said doesn't work like that, some of it requires Dio to do things he'd never do, the liquid morph isn't as good as you imply, mindhax I'm seeing as a common tactic but not inherently his most common lead. You ignore the actual potency if Dio's freezing when not holding back and how Morb actually doesn't have the needed abilities to properly circumvent it from Regen and immortality, and SRSE goes brrrrr and is like a 100m long arc of death that Morb can't consistently dodge.
I read your arguments, Im just of the impression mindhax is his only actual saving grace, but he needs to lead with that right away to win and even in your examples he somehow tosses hands first, which is bad.

 

[Shey]

Dio FRA

 

[Arnoldstone18]

NOW I WILL SUMMARIZE MY RESPONSE BECAUSE I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE, NOBODY IS GOING IS READ OUR POSTS IF WE KEEP TYPING PARAGRAPHS.

Your points change a lot and I'm tired of keeping track so I will just refute your central claims

If he's already in CQC, Morb is ******, ONE TOUCH literally one graze is all Dio needs to incapacitate him completely. And that's INCLUDING when he's a liquid, if anything that'd just make it less difficult for him. And no, that would be his worst dodging strategy, as Morb himself ON THAT SAME PAGE says it caused him strain, so much so, that Ghost Rider was able to easily punch him in the head. Now imagine if that was Dio, Morb turns to liquid to dodge a handful of simultaneous strikes, but it strains the **** out of him, and now he's an open duck and Dio punches him in the head flash freezing his head and shattering it. Congratulations, Morb just got himself killed using the technique you said was his best chance.


Yeah, he is capable of lengthening it, and then he lengthens it and gets frozen, wow, he's ****** again. And you're really grasping at that aren't you?


My dude, you realize that instant flash freeze he did covered someone's whole body right? If Dio makes contact even once, Morb is ******, there is no other outcome, liquifying his frozen solid body isn't a option, he's frozen solid, it's literally a hard counter to him doing that. Morb breaking off and shattering like half his body is beyond his regen too, so that's not helping. And if Dio so much as grazes his head, torso or so on, he's also dead because he can't regen from that damage.


Because he's frozen solid, he has to prove he can liquify himself when his state of matter has been forcefully changed. This is like arguing he could liquify himself if he was turned to stone or something, the answer is hell no, he wouldn't be able to do shit from that, he'd be just as ****** there, as he is in this situation. he needs feats to do what you're saying he can do, without them, he gets frozen because that's the logical conclusion.


Also no, he wouldn't, you realize if Morb's head is frozen or what not, or if most of his biomass is frozen, he wouldn't resort to anything right? Because he'd be dead. He might be a vampire, but he isn't going to be cognizant when his brain is turned into ice, or when so much of his body is ice that he dies because his Type 2 immortality doesn't cover such extensive damage to himself.
BRUH what the ****. The flash freezing DOES freeze the blood, that's LITERALLY why Dio made it, he made the technique so it would stop the circulation of blood in his foe's bodies, specifically Hamon dudes, thus preventing blood flow and thus preventing their ability to conjure Hamon. It's also why he couldn't freeze Jonathan beyond just small bits of him, because if he did he'd stop his blood flow and thus, be unable to inject with vampiric essence into his blood to make him a minion.
The whole point of the technique is to freeze the blood first and foremost.


Eye contact? While frozen? I hope you realize how much harder that's gonna be to do right?
And 5 examples isn't enough, I need you, to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, Morbius most common lead is that, just that, while in a fighting scenario. Because some of those VERY examples are bad, in some of those he strikes first and engages in CQC, and in one he even tackled, things that would have get him killed here, even in your examples he doesn't actually lead with it bar one. Also you were talking about how Dio runs his mouth in a fight but Morbius looks just as guilty of that.


Before dying because he's in CQC now and Dio himself just needs one strike to kill him.


No he'd be dead as ****, remember, he isn't fighting Jonathan here, against Jonathan he explicitly held back on his freezing ability, because he wanted Jonathan's blood flow to remain so he could turn Jonathan into a zombie. Jonathan himself even points this out, and says that's why Dio lost to him.



No he'd be frozen instantly to the point of incap. If he holds on for a second longer, then he'd be frozen solid.

And yeah, it IS his only win condition. And no, he wouldn't resort to it immediately, because he'd be frozen. You realize Morb can't break out of a surface freeze either right? Especially not with that Class LS. From there a few extra moments and he's dead, and I don't think he's going to flash freezing when his head is frozen and he can't even look at Dio.
Hell the only reason why Dire's head was uneffected was because of Hamon magic, and it STILL froze solid and shattered upon his death, it was just delayed.


Yes actually, SRSE would blow him apart as a Liquid, it's ludicrously high pressure, despite being a piercing attack, it blew off like half of Straizo's head, it's like a high powered rifle vs a human.
And mind you, Dio can spam this, and as we see, in your OWN scan of him using liquid to dodge, it's strainful and he can't spam it and it leaves him open for a counter attack.
So cool, Morb turns to liquid, dodges the huge hundred meter arcing sweep of SRSE, and then Dio just turns his head back and does it again. Morb can dodge maybe one of these, maybe two tops, and when all Dio needs to do is like, turn his head slightly to create giant arcs, and it being something he can spam at that, yeah no, Morb is dead if they play long range and even with liquid morphing that's going to save him for maybe a total of five seconds.


What the hell is this supposed to do? I'm not arguing Dio blows a hole through his chest, I'm arguing Dio does holes like that TO HIS HEAD, as Dio is explicitly stated to have aimed for the brain in intent to destroy it EVERYTIME he's used it, and the only other way Dio has used it was by SWEEPING IT, bisecting and slicing dudes in half. Morb doesn't have the ability to survive being sliced in half or having his head blown off. So as i said, SRSE is also a win condition, and if Morb plays that long range game, something you argued extensively for, so don't think I'm just gonna pretend you didn't say that's something Morb would do in character, aka something he'd do in character that opens him up tojust being taken out by lasers.


Dio obviously, no offense but your arguments rely on things simply not working the way they work, for Dio to be a dumbass and walk outside, for Morb to instantly and immediately use his mindhax and not ANYTHING else because anything thing else he does leads to him dying, for Morb's liquid ability to protect from freezing (it doesn't), for Dio to simply not get a hit in himself (Because one touch and he wins, he can flash freeze enough of the body in a mere graze to incap, or if he hits his torso or head, he automatically wins too as Morb can't come back from that), if Morb himself touches Dio that whole chunk of his body is frozen, Dio also has a long range beam move that can slice or blow apart Morb;s head, and liquid dodging isn't a viable counter as Morb can't keep that up while Dio literally just needs to turn his head (And given Dio aims for the brain, and even just being sliced apart is going to kill Morb, this is a fine counter). And the only real counter you have to this is "it takes a few seconds", but forgetting that only takes a few seconds when he's freezing completely and just freezing the surface of them is instant, which renders them immobile, which lets him freeze them completely, and then forgetting he actually gimped his freezing against Jonathan (Also his freezing stops blood flow and freezes the blood). Also LS, and it's important to note Dio has other methods of restricting or limiting Morb's ability to dodge or move, I've only been talking about what actually kills Morb, (and luckily it's something Dio is doing at all times so we don't have to argue about if he'd use it right away), if we wanna talk things that can help Dio get his wincon, there's quite a bit more.

Dio needs one touch to win, one touch would be enough to freeze to the point of incap and to render Morb incapable of retaliating back in any method. Long range Dio also wins via giga **** beams. Morb must lead with mindhax, or he loses, and even in the scans he uses mindhax, it's shown he still sometimes exchanges blows first, I don't think I have to explain why that's not going to work

Anyway. These are my overall and final arguments.

1. Morbius has a counter to ranged attacks shown to you. He liquefies himself to easily dodge or let the beams pass through. The beams are not a valid wincon. they do not negate durability. Morbius easily evades since Jonathan can without any special skill or the beams go through. The beams are not a wincon

2. DIO's weakness is his overconfidence, even when bloodlust he still shows off to his enemies for extended periods. His overconfidence was the reason Dire's head wasn't frozen which nearly cost him. and he speaks with Jonathan for so long that his sword conducted heat to the point that it was melting the ice faster than he could freeze it. That takes minutes. He never learns from this weakness as he kept showing off his stand ability rather than instantly killing his foes. Look at Silver Chariot dude, look at Jotaro, etc. Don't even try to say Jonathan received special treatment because they are brothers or something. Dio wants to kill him.

3. If Morbius punches DIO, ONLY his hand will be frozen. If DIO grabs Morbius, he freezes the entire body leaving the head so you can hear how amazing he is or how he wants you in his army before he kills you. Morbius hypnotizes DIO on the spot. DIO's overconfidence is so bad that it WILL be his downfall. Thanks to DIO not immediately freezing Dire's head, Dire was able to counterattack with his head before Dying. Thanks to DIO's overconfidence, Jonathan had enough time to conduct heat from a fire through his sword to escape. BOTH CHARACTERS HAD THE MEANS TO COUNTER, THEREFORE Morbius will definitely counter with hypnosis. Why? DIO ALWAYS lets his characters attack first, so Morbius hypnotizes once he realizes his hands gets frozen after the first strike. If for some reason Dio wants to freeze his body, DIO never freezes the entire body, whether he wants to take life force or not, so Morbius STILL counters with Hypnosis.

These are my arguments for Morbius if any new person comes here.


Updated the OP with the wincon from both sides in one word.

 

[Popted2]

Dio FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Nah man, I can't let that slide.

Your points change a lot and I'm tired of keeping track so I will just refute your central claims

My points haven't changed at all. Dio flash freezes, was the the first thing I said, and I'm still saying it.
I just brought up SRSE because you somehow think Morb fleeing, luring or going range is somehow a thing that doesn't instantly get him ****** completely. i could bring up more but tbh it isn't needed, yeah I could mention Dio's other powers and abilities, but why even bother? Dio's main move that he uses almost as like a passive is just as good as any.

1. Morbius has a counter to ranged attacks shown to you. He liquefies himself to easily dodge or let the beams pass through. The beams are not a valid wincon. they do not negate durability. Morbius easily evades since Jonathan can without any special skill or the beams go through. The beams are not a wincon

Lad, in that VERY same scan it says it was hard as **** to do, and then he gets punched in the face because it strained him. Based on that scan, I'm lead to believe the exact opposite, it ISN'T a viable dodge method, and in fact leaves him open for a follow up attack.



Right there, your own scans.

"Those would've killed me if I hadn't morphed my body out of the way! But the strain! AAGH! - Gets punched in the face".
And then GR walks up and punches him in the face. Are you joking right now lad? This is a useless counter, it's baffling to me you're legitimately arguing it while being ignorant to the very same line he says he did it. Honestly, I hope he DOES do that, it'd just secure Dio's win, especially if he was GR there, a head punch would kill Morb as Morb can't survive his head being flash frozen and broken.

Morbius doesn't easily evade, Morbius evades with effort and then gets tagged on the follow up because he can't do it multiple times in the row and doing such a thing leaves him open to follow up attacks, as you can see, in your own scan.

. Morbius easily evades since Jonathan can without any special skill or the beams go through. The beams are not a wincon

Jonathan barely evaded. And he still died on the boat. And in the first instance, Jonathan says himself, if he was even a inch off, he'd have had his brain destroyed.

"If I was another inch to the right. My brain would have been destroyed!".

Jonathan merely got lucky, that's it, Dio was a mere inch from blowing his head apart, and he pulled that off while in freefall as just a head himself without even being able to aim, something Morb isn't going to get him into such a position for him to miss like that by pure chance (Given Morb can't exactly vaporize Dio's body on contact rendering him a disembodied head in freefall).
And then factor in the whole "Dio moves his head slightly" and creates a huge arc with the beam, yeah no, Morb tries to pull what you said he'd do, he would die. And would Morb even expect Dio to randomly fire gigafuck beams? Idk lad.

This counter doesn't work, it might work for a second or two, but it'd just lead to his own downfall due to the strain.

DIO's weakness is his overconfidence, even when bloodlust he still shows off to his enemies for extended periods.

Ah yes, that's why he, upon contact, incapped Dire and then just went about killing him?


When bloodlusted, Dio's bloodlust is so strong that anyone with ESP or that can sense that shit would feel like an, and I quote, "an icicle shoved up your ass".

His overconfidence was the reason Dire's head wasn't frozen which nearly cost him.

Haha what the actual ****? No it wasn't? He didn't just opt to not freeze Dire's head, in fact, Dire's head WAS frozen and shattered moments after.


As you can see literally moments later if you stopped ignoring context. Dire is likely unironically just built diff (I mean, case and point, a "normal" human survived as a disembodied head long enough to attack Dio even though he was dead a million times over, he also talked, idk how he'd talk as just a head but it be like that), Dio did indeed froze his head, in fact the freezing continued even after Dio lost contact with him. Think about that for aa second, and then realize the implications for how bad this might be for Morb. Needless to say as well, Dio isn't going to be caught offguard like he was with Dire, Morb is clearly a demon of sorts, Dio would expect him to survive as a head, not like Dire, a "normal human" doing that (tbh it's kind of insane, that's the best stamina feat from a human in all of JoJo).

and he speaks with Jonathan for so long that his sword conducted heat to the point that it was melting the ice faster than he could freeze it. That takes minutes.

Actual case of lol fiction, they definitely weren't standing around for 15 minutes or however long it'd take for that to happen, even using the anime it wasn't even minutes, and the anime has a bad case of Freeza time syndrome (Example - Jotaro vs Dio, in the anime that fight lasted like a hour of screentime, but in the manga it's explicitly stated to have only lasted less than 150 seconds from Kakyoin's death to Dio's death. Talking is just a free action in JoJo, time and time again, especially with Dio, dude can talk for like two minutes straight within five seconds of time stop) but ignoring that, you realize Jonathan is the worst possible example to use for anything because Dio has a specific vendetta against him and his hatred for Jonathan clouds his judgement at times? He doesn't do this shit with others. I mean, he LITERALLY just finished flash freezing and shattering a dude to pieces, and then proceeds to the exact opposite on Jonathan because he wants him as a minion more then he wants him dead.

He never learns from this weakness as he kept showing off his stand ability rather than instantly killing his foes. Look at Silver Chariot dude, look at Jotaro, etc.

?????????????????????
What did he mean by this? There is no less than 4 different statements explicitly saying Dio learns from his mistakes so they do not happen again, not only from himself but from OTHERS. And that's just off the top of my head, I could probably compile a small book if I dug.
But oh we're bringing Part 3 Dio into this? Oh boy, talk about shooting yourself in the foot, I'm not even gonna bother with anything except the main arc to prove my point, there's more but this should suffice. The part where he is so overly cautious it's ridiculous? Bruh.

Hey let's go through examples.

1. Chariot? Ah you mean when he was explicitly trying to recruit Polnareff because he thought it'd be a waste to kill a valuable and powerful potential ally, and when Pol basically told him to go **** himself, Dio was like "Aight k, I guess you'll die" and the only reason why Pol survived was because Jotaro and friends smashed down the wall, letting sunlight flood the room which saved Pol's ass from certain death.
Aka you're leaving out context, forgetting to mention Dio knows Pol's capabilities extensively and everything he can do, and is trying to convince him to join him, and the moment Pol refused Dio was mere seconds away from killing him and only survived because his friends saved his ass? The time stop spam was a scare tactic fyi in order to make Pol submit, Dio makes that clear.

2. Killed Nuke the moment he "betrayed him", maiming him and slicing him into bits.

3. Dio actually did try to kill them all in one go without letting them fight back or what not. As soon as he killed Nukesaku, the squad were trying to figure out where Dio was, they suddenly all felt such an overwhelming killing intent (thanks ESP) that they straight up jumped out the ******* window into the sunlight to flee from Dio (Thankfully they prepared ahead of time by letting light flood the room, making a lot of the room a place Dio is unable to enter). Joseph himself confirms if they stayed there, they'd probably all be dead by now (He says, while having only free falled for a few seconds).
Aka you kinda left out the first time Dio actually engaged with them, bar Pol who he was trying to recruit, he immediately went in for the kill without letting any of them retaliate, they were only saved because Dio's pure bloodlust tipped them all off he they were all about to die. So I really have no idea what the **** you're talking about, Part 3 Dio is ruthless as all hell, Jotaro just got lucky because Dio felt like testing his Stand and knew he could defeat Jotaro going by his knowledge.
Fyi Joseph also confirms later that the only reason they were'nt super giga dead was because Dio can only stop time for a few seconds, if he could do it longer, they never would have gotten a chance at all and he would've killed them all where they stood.

4. In the car chase, when HG gets to close, DIO immediately has TW punch the dude, the only reason why he wasn't maimed to hell and back was because TW's punch launched him out of its own range. Kakyoin himself says as much "I attacked him from about ten meters away. If I was any closer, I would've been killed".
Kakyoin only survived because he just so happened to of been at the edge of TW's 10m manifestation range, if he was any closer, Dio would have straight up killed him. Kak was cautious and deduced from experience with Stands that Dio likely had a Power Type and thus, small AOE of just a few meters, and he still almost died.
(Dio then proceeds to ******* yeet the senator at them so hard it totals the vehicle and they have to flee on foot)

5. Kakyoin's death, Dio chases the fleeing Kakyoin, but Kakyoin set up a trap, the 20m ES. Kakyoin and Dio have only one exchange. And then Dio kills him without him having any way to fight back. And mind you, this is AFTER Kakyoin narrowly avoided being killed by Dio twice over and in those instances, Kak wasn't even given a chance to talk back, he merely lucked out both times. So yes, 2 times against Kak where Dio went for the kill without being overconfident, and the third time Dio and have had a quick exchange before Dio murked him.

I'd also count Joseph too tbh, Dio said one thing to him ("You're next. I'm going to drink your blood!" being basically all he said (The convo about Erina and what not is anime only, they extended Dio's convo with Joseph in the anime, in the manga Dio says one sentence before lunging in for the kill). Joseph tried to flee, and Dio straight up says he's not going to let him escape. But speaking of Joseph.

6. When Joseph is fleeing from above, Dio uses his ability to cut him and goes to punch his ******* head off without even giving him a chance to say anything or counter. Though he stops, but why does he stop? It's sure as hell not overconfidence, it's because Joseph was using his Stand as a conduit to course Hamon through himself, if Dio followed through on killing Joseph, he'd have actually killed himself and Dio figured this out before it was to late. To which Joseph says "You figured out I was using Hamon and then refused to punch me. You cautious son of a bitch". Yes, that's right, DIO nearly killed Joseph so fast he barely even had time to react, he only stopped because Dio isn't stupid, in fact he's extremely cautious and smart, and goes out of his way to not take any unneeded risks usually unless he KNOWS he can afford to, he didn't follow through on the kill because he figured out mere contact with Joseph would vaporize himself and he'd die.
Oh yeah and Joseph also says
"If you could stop time any longer, you'd have killed us all back at the mansion, you wouldn't have needed to come after us".
Which refer to the above scene where he nearly killed them all at his mansion immediately but they sensed it and fled, Joseph confirms if he could stop time long enough, they all would have straight up died and never would've got away, because as said, Dio is egotistical but he ISN'T dumb, if he can kill you and has no reason not to, he's going to kill you, and if you're a threat to him, you're likely dying too. And if you're an unknown foe? Probably dying too because it's risky. Only two cases exist where Dio just threw a fight, out of like ten times as many fights as that, that's saying a lot (Given the two instances were reasonable).

7. But yeah he can't touch Joseph, so he tells Joseph "Yeah cool dude, you figured me out? Watch this lol". Dio smashes debris into him, and when Joseph is stunned, he stops time, goes up to Joseph, and plants a knife in his neck, killing him. (And yes, Joseph did die here, being revived after the fight doesn't change that).
Joseph never stood a chance, and Dio easily countered Joseph's only saving grace that saved him from immediate death on the fly. Joseph hard countering Dio saved his ass for a total of a few seconds.

8. I will give you Jotaro, Dio did indeed go out of his way to not kill Jotaro immediately, but you're also forgetting some key bits of info. One, Dio knows everything Jotaro can do (At least, he think he does, but the only thing he doesn't know, is something that Jotaro himself doesn't even know and jotaro learning how to stop time within a minute after going months without knowing it was a thing is honestly fair for Dio to overlook, doubly so as this has never happened before or after in all of JoJo media). Two, he actually was going in to kill Jotaro, but Jotaro rolled up, to which Dio was like "Dude wtf? You're not running away?", Jotaro was like "Nah I gotta get close to beat your ass", and Dio decided to humor him.
In fact, Dio says he always wanted to test The World against Star Platinum, which is honestly, the only real reason why he's humoring Jotaro in the first place, it's because Dio himself always wanted to fight Jotaro to see who was better, if he didn't have that personal reason to let Jotaro live a extra few seconds he wouldn't have, and that's against Jotaro in particular, he would have died. And you know how I know this? Because RIGHT AFTER Dio is done comparing his strength and speed with Star Platinum, he goes "Ha playtime is over, I'm satisfied, I'm way stronger lol. I learned from my mistakes 100 years ago, you all must die quickly and mercilessly, I'll kill you in one blow". Paraphrased of course, cue Dio stopping time and going in to kill Jotaro in one blow.
Yes, again, Dio in a very specific situation is able to be goaded into not killing right away, but you know what's funny? This specific situation only saved Jotaro for a few extra seconds (Yes, seconds. The entire Dio fight from Kakyoin's death to when Jotaro defeats Dio is stated to last not even 3 minutes). As soon as Dio was satisfied in testing, he went in to kill Jotaro in one blow.

Oh yeah, you know what's also funny, the fact Dio straight up learned from his mistakes, unlike how you claim he doesn't learn, he straight up says himself that he will kill the joestars quickly, and mercilessly. And as we see, that is VERY much the case, he tried to kill the whole group immediately, Joseph confirms twice. He ******* murked Kakyoin, he would've killed Pol the moment they started fighting if he wasn't saved and later does tries again, Joseph barely lucked out in dying quickly, but that just prompted Dio to counter him and stick a knife through his neck, and that's without getting into the non main characters he's ****** up. And then he does nothing but try and kill Jotaro without retaliation, Jotaro just asspulls his way to victory even though Dio did just about everything he could right.

But let's continue.

9. Jotaro spontaneously learns how to stop time, this shocks Dio drastically and stuns him. Jotaro survives, because this is an ACTUAL case of Dio's egotism coming into play, he is so taken aback by Jotaro even MAYBE being able to move while time is halted, that he's awestruck and doesn't finish killing him.
Looks bad tho right? Not really. Dio follows Jotaro, stops time, though he's cautious now because Jotaro might be able to move in stopped time, Dio moves cautiously, notices magnets, deduces that it was just a trick by Jotaro to save himself, and then Dio goes in to land a killing blow on Jotaro again, with Dio even saying that all this did was postpone his death by mere seconds. It took Jotaro spontaneously learning how to move in stopped time to save his own ass, something which is a lone outlier in the history of that universe, and you know what Dio did? Proceed to try and kill Jotaro again in time stop in a single killing blow while also being cautious now that Jotaro poses a potential threat and Dio isn't sure what Jotaro is capable of.
Of course Jotaro actually big brained and the magnets were bait and he actually really COULD move in stopped time, but that doesn't change the fact Dio acted accordingly and tried to kill Jotaro in one hit here.

10. The Dio fight has now changed tempos, Dio knows Jotaro is dangerous, so he must find out ways to kill him without entering Star Platinum's range due to risk of being manhandled by Plat. So, Dio adapts, in this case, he gathers a bunch of knives, stops time, and throws like 40 knives at extreme speed within stopped time, thus he can attack Jotaro at range without entering Plat's 2m AOE. And even though he just seen a bunch of knives stab Jotaro in the limbs and chest, he follows up and throws another knife aimed at his head "just to be safe". Dio even says that while he MAY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE, he isn't stupid, even if he's winning he's still not gonna let his foe get the upperhand if he can avoid it or leave himself at risk.
This shows Dio's ability to adapt to the situation and unforeseen circumstances in the midst of a fight, as with Joseph, while also mitigating his foe's ability to retaliate back without risk to himself, all the while doing shit to put his foe in a awful situation, if not kill them straight up.

11. Jotaro is full of holes and has a knife stuck in his head, he's still alive though, just pretending to be dead so he can catch Dio offguard. But wait? Dio isn't a idiot, and he is stupidly cautious. As he says himself "better safe then sorry", while Jotaro seems to be dead, and most would think he's dead, Dio is cautious, he needs to make sure his foe is dead. So you know what he does? He grabs a pole to extend his reach so he can mitigate Star Platinum's 2m AOE, in case Jotaro is in fact alive and just playing dead (Which he is), and then tries to cut off Jotaro's head. Jotaro would have died here if not for Pol coming in to save his ass at that exact second.
Jotaro would've died here, all due to Dio's cautious and merciless nature.

12. Pol saved Jotaro, but Dio stops time, caves his chest in, knocks him out cold, and then, you guessed it, Dio goes in to kill the unconscious Pol. This causes the pretending to be dead Jotaro to panic, because as he says himself "Oh shit, Polnareff is going to die!".
And that's not all, pay attention to what Jotaro says, it'd be easy to save Pol's life, he just needs to show that he's alive before Dio finishes killing Pol, but as Jotaro says, while Dio will go straight for Jotaro he WON'T enter Star Platinum's AOE, instead Dio will avoid the risk and danger of his foe and stop time immediately and attack with long range as Jotaro can't fight against that, to which Jotaro unironically says that if Dio finds out he's alive (In which case Dio will go straight for Jotaro with long range while avoiding danger because he's cautious), he's ******. So Jotaro taps the ground, Dio's hears this and focuses his attention on Jotaro, thus saving Pol's life.
Again, Dio goes in for a killing blow without much if any ******* around, and Jotaro basically goes on a tangent about how Dio is cautious and if Dio figures out he's actually alive he's so ****** it's not even funny.

13. Dio is focused on Jotaro now, but due to Dio's cautious nature, he won't approach him due to the risk of Plat. So you know what Dio does? He takes a cop, has him shoot Jotaro, just to see if Jotaro or his body reacts, in order to confirm if he's dead. Jotaro has Plat catch the bullet before does anything bad thus he doesn't react, something which you'd think would fool Dio. But no, Jotaro says himself Dio is going to make absolute certain he's dead because Dio is paranoid as ****, because yes, Dio is cautious and learns from his mistakes. Dio then proceeds to use his super hearing to see if Jotaro is breathing, Jotaro holds his breath in response. Thus we have him not breathing and not reacting to being shot, but nah, Dio is cautious to the point he goes and checks something that Jotaro would have no real way to fake, the being his own heartbeat. Dio listens if his heart was beating to see if he was dead, so Jotaro, no shit, has his own Stand phase into his chest, and stop his own heart (Something Jotaro notes might even kill himself).
Dio doesn't hear the heartbeat so he's like "Ah cool, I thought maybe he revived himself somehow but I guess I was imagining it". Dio being the hardass he is, decides he's going to cut off Jotaro's head anyway JUST TO BE SAFE. Dio is so ******* careful and merciless that he's willing to cut off the head of a corpse filled with knives, a knife through the head, that doesn't react to stimulus like bullets, isn't breathing, isn't moving and has no heartbeat.
The only reason why Jotaro survives is because he managed to, through the utmost bullshit, convince Dio he MIGHT be dead, to have Dio enter the edge of Plat's AOE. And the funny thing is, Jotaro actually still would have died, he got lucky because Star Platinum, his Stand, restarted his heart after he lost conscious and nearly died trying to get past Dio's shit, and mind you, this actually is extremely lucky, most Stand's can't do what Star Platinum did, Star Platinum is just built different (As you'd expect from the most "invincible" Stand at the time).

14. Jotaro managed to get his second real hit on Dio due to a combination of luck, his own big brain plays, his Stand being sentient and saving his ass, Pol saving his ass, smarts, and just a bunch of shit. Dio then proceeds to fool the **** out of Jotaro, Dio is on the ropes, so he tries to "flee", and Jotaro tries to stop him, he manages to trick Jotaro in launching his ass down a street, because this was his plan, trick Jotaro into think he was escaping and subtly luring him to the right spot and have Jotaro himself be his escape plan, launching him toward the, at the time, deceased Joseph, which Dio used to heal his wounds as well as power himself up so much, he becomes more powerful than he's ever been.

And then he becomes literally high off the blood and then yeah, NOW he's actually up his own ass and does some stupid shit, now you can say Dio's personality is a weakness. But even then, only barely, when they start fighting again after Dio is done having an episode because he's high as a kite, he fought Jotaro for a total of like NINE SECONDS (Yes, nine seconds), flat out stated, nine seconds, one time stop worth of fighting. And then Dio was like "aight cool anyway HERE COMES THE KILLING BLOW". And then goes into trying to kill Jotaro again. after the high wears down he still proves himself smart, after Jotaro asspulls his way to victory by learning how to stop time himself, avoiding Dio smashing a ******* ROAD ROLLER on him, and then time stopping Dio himself and smashing his legs. And you know what Dio does in response? Spray the blood from his legs onto Jotaro's eyes blinding him before pivoting into a kick to try and take his head off, killing him, with Dio even saying he doesn't give a shit if he plays dirty, all that matters is he fulfills his goals.
Even when high and at his WORST, Dio still makes actual attempts to murder fast, efficiently and still plays smart.


So no, you're wrong, objectively wrong. Dio in Part 3? He's cautious, merciless, efficient, kills right away when given the chance and PREFERS killing immediately, goes out of his way to avoid risk and danger, will counter his foe's fighting style to circumvent danger while effectively killing them, will abuse all that he has at his disposal to kill. And goes on record saying he LEARNED from his **** ups in his youth, and even in the fight alone we see him learn, adapt and then react. And that's JUST that one arc, this goes all throughout the Part, he even goes so far to kill Enya, one of his most loyal and helpful allies because she was caught by the enemy and she might of revealed the secret of his powers to give his foe's an edge. She didn't even do it, even while dying, she refused to say anything. But alas, Dio murdered her and planted flesh buds within her head as a precaution (As in, he has fleshbuds with his allies on the offchance they might put him at a disadvantage). And that's just the tip.
i could go on, it is true in Part 1, he's FAR more up his own ass, it's also true he's not as dumb as you're twisting him to be. Case and point, in their youth, Jonathan put him on his ass, so Dio, knowing that Jonathan is a threat and that what he was doing wasn't working, decides to over the course of 7 years pretending to be friendly and form a bond with Jonathan, just to trick him so later on in life, he'd be offguard.

But even then, in Part 1 he's shown to learn, even after becoming a vampire. On the boat he was cautious of Jonathan, his opening move was an attempt to blow Jonathan's brain out with SRSE, something with Jonathan barely avoided (Now I know what you might be thinking, "see, Jonathan dodged! So could Morb!", I would like to remind that Dio is a head in a jar at that moment and can't do the simple act of turning his head or aiming himself. Nonetheless he caught Jonathan in the neck, crippling him, and if he had a body, Dio would've just liked, moved his eyes slightly to adjust the aim or arc the beam).
He's also still cautious, telling Wang that even though Jonathan might be dying, to still watch out and be careful of retaliation. It's not Dio who ***** up, it's his dumbass ally that doesn't take Dio's warning and gets struck by Jonathan's Hamon mind shit.

Don't even try to say Jonathan received special treatment because they are brothers or something. Dio wants to kill him.

Hey look at that, ignoring further context or later revealed information. "Dead" in this case is undead, a minion, a zombie in the current fight, as Dio later explains extensively. And I hope you realize Dio was talking about in the past in the initial instance, when he sent Tarkus and Bruford ("the two knights" in question) after Jonathan (Which he straight up mentions there), at the time he didn't want Jonathan to be undead, he was giving Jonathan special treatment because they grew up together as he says himself. And then in that fight Dio STILL gives Jonathan special treatment, as you'll soon see. You conflating the previous fight in Dio wanting Jonathan to just die to how he went about it in his final fight, his opinion changed, says so himself.

I'll explain this to you as straightforward as I can. Dio actually DIDN'T want Jonathan to be dead, and he actually WAS giving him special treatment, you know we know this? Because he literally ******* says so himself.



Here look, I'll walk you through it.

1. Jonathan attacks Dio. Dio freezes his arms, immobilizing them.

2. Dio, now this is the important part, Dio flatout says that he's going to turn Jonathan into his minion, yes, you read that right. Dio doesn't want to kill Jonathan, he wants to TURN HIM, not freeze him into a billion pieces, he had an ulterior goal.

3. He immediately grabs out and rips out his CAROTOID, he does this to prevent Jonathan from making any movements, fleeing or doing anything of the sort as, Dio says himself, it's a very delicate artery and if he moves, he'll cut it. Thus Dio has Jonathan in a disadvantage.

4. Jonathan kicks anyway, Dio flash freezes his leg over to immobilize it.

5. Dio says that's going to make a slight cut to insert his essence - which turns those into his zombie minions.

6. Speedwagon tries to interfere and Dio gets his minions to fend them off, he goes back to, and again, says that he's GOING TO TURN JONATHAN INTO A MINION.

7. Jonathan says, now this is important, that Dio made a mistake. If you freeze my entire body, I cannot release the Ripple (Hamon), but you also cannot extract my life force . You haven't completely frozen me.
You see that? Jonathan flat out explain what happened there, Dio ****** up, he wanted Jonathan, in particular, to become his minion (Precisely BECAUSE it's Jonathan getting special treatment),but in order to do that, Dio must not freeze Jonathan's body. Yes, as you can guess, based on the fact they flat out tell us, Dio was sandbagging, he actively went out of his way to NOT FREEZE Jonathan, or freeze him to the point he stopped his bloodflow, because if he did, he wouldn't be able to insert the extract and he'd kill Jonathan. And yes, the body needs circulation in order for the extract to turn them into a zombie, and Dio's flash freeze's main gimmick, is halting blood flow, it's something he just can't do there.

So yeah no, try again. Jonathan not only got special treatment, but Dio merely went out of his way to just immobilize him with superficial freezing as he had no intent on freezing him to the point of lethality and in fact couldn't if he was to turn him.

3. If Morbius punches DIO, ONLY his hand will be frozen.

Lol Jonathan doesn't count, was sandbagging, And YES, Dio still intended on making Jonathan his zombie, as right after he punched and went lol one touch I could freeze you, 2 seconds? Your whole body solid. But then goes on to say that while he admires his spirit, he's just a monkey to him and You will become my zombie!

>If DIO grabs Morbius, he freezes the entire body leaving the head so you can hear how amazing he is or how he wants you in his army before he kills you.

Except lol didn't happen, why don't you show what happened moments later Instead of being disingenuous.. Against Dire he actually DID remove the moisture from his head and flash froze it, it just was delayed because Dire is a cool dude, upon death, Dire's head immediately froze and broke into pieces, even though Dio had since stopped touching him.
Unless you want to argue Dio can touch you once and if he so chooses, can have his flash freeze continue even after contact has ceased, which would just **** Morb even harder as even after they let go or stop contact, the freezing will continue.

And yes, there you go, in that second scan you posted, if you weren't dishonest and just decided to remove the rest of the context you'd know that no, he can't.. Jonathan can't regen as a zombie or vampire after being frozen (Zombie regen isn't that good, it enables them to come back from broken bones, deep stab wounds, and can heal things like fingers but that's it), BUT that it's flatout explained that NO, Dio CAN'T freeze Jonathan, because there MERE ACT of freezing him would prevent the zombie essence from taking effect in the first place. Thus even if a zombie COULD regen from being flash frozen to a lethal extent, it wouldn't even matter because Dio cant turn him into one if the blood flow or body is frozen beyond just superficially, which is why when Dio freezes Jonathan in all those instances, it's only in parts and only surface level without actually freezing beneath the skin.
And honestly? There's no way you missed that, no offense, but I'm beginning to think you're straight up lying and being dishonest instead of just forgetting, because mere pages after that they explain that, straight up countering your argument explicitly. You're objectively wrong here. Flat out false, not even subjective.

>Morbius hypnotizes DIO on the spot.

Unless, like, he's frozen, can't make eye contact because most of his body is frozen or is immobile, was struck by Dio in the head or some place, or several dozen other things that would prevent that from transpiring.

> DIO's overconfidence is so bad that it WILL be his downfall. Thanks to DIO not immediately freezing Dire's head, Dire was able to counterattack with his head before Dying.

See above, you're being dishonest as ****, hell; even in that same scan, don't know how you missed it but... DIRE'S HEAD FROZE OVER AND SHATTERED. Like my dude, come on now. That's something Morbius can't do, hell, even doing that to Morb would kill him, as his whole body, neck down, is frozen solid, and Morb can't survive as just a head. And even if he could, as shown with Dire anyway, even if you try and ignore it being a Dire exclusive thing and not something that's going to happen to Morb without proper feats on his end, his head would still be frozen and shatter apart without any force needed mere moments later because again, his head still froze over and broke after Dio stopped making contact with it, hell even in this situation, if Morb mindhaxed Dio (lol), Morb would still lose as his head's going to freeze and break in a few moments anyway even if Dio stops doing whatever it is he's doing.

So no, bad argument, and bordering on flatout wrong given it did happen and even in that situation Morb lacks the ability to live as just a head, can't survive when everything neck down was turned to solid ice (effectively leaving the only biomass of his that is even still his, being his head), and even if he does something, he's going to die in a second or two anyway as seen with Dire.

>Thanks to DIO's overconfidence, Jonathan had enough time to conduct heat from a fire through his sword to escape.

Speedwagon actually showed up and distracted Dio, causing Dio to stop injecting his essence to turn Jonathan into a zombie, and for Dio to inform his minions to fend off and keep away Jonathan's allies. As soon as Dio was done doing that, he turned to Jonathan, said he's going to turn him, and then Jonathan was like "lol you think bitch".

If Speedwagon didn't interfere or if, in case you forgot, Jonathan had multiple allies fighting behind Dio, Dio would have actually got his essence in time, Jonathan lucked out tbh.
Oh but I hear you say, "Dio said stuff before that!".
Yes he did, but what did he say?
Only three things, to paraphrase.
"I have your carotoid, I'll make you a zombie". - A warning to Jonathan to try and get him to stop attacking and informing him what he's going to do.
"I have your carotoid, do not move, or I'll tear it out. I'm going to make you a minion". - Another warning but Dio this time makes himself more explicit he's telling Jonathan not to attack because if he does he very well might kill himself, and that he will become a minion.
Then speedwagon tries to interfere and Dio has to take a moment to tell his minions to keep them away, if Speedwagon or outside help wasn't there, this would not have happened.
Then Dio turns around and goes "Ok now I'm gonna turn you".

You're acting like Dio was actually being dumb as shit or lethally overconfident, he wasn't, he said some shit, but everything he said was things you'd expect in that situation, and some of it was even acting as a warning to inform his foe not to try and pull anything aka an actual smart idea, and half of it was because of outside forces, aka not an actual fair complaint, if they weren't there Dio would have actually made it in time. Not to mention, Jonathan was actually helpless for all intents and purposes, if they were anywhere else Dio also would've succeeded, he just didn't notice the fire behind him (Which, fyi, he learns from and in the future is far more aware of his environment).

>BOTH CHARACTERS HAD THE MEANS TO COUNTER,

Uh, no, they didn't, again, in case you forgot, Dio was trying to do something, very specific against Jonathan, and something he wanted to do even after Jonathan escaped. Dio had no means to counter, because his counters would've probably killed Jonathan and he was, despite your claims, trying to prevent that, and flash freeze was explicitly stated to not be an option for his goals. And Jonathan couldn't counter either, he got lucky having his swing be placed in a fire and then having Dio have ulterior motives for him in particular and for his allies to distract Dio momentarily, it was a chain of actions that ended in victory. Things that aren't going to be the case in this match as Dio doesn't have a personal vendetta against Morb, and Morb is kind of obviously a vampire or demon so Dio isn't even gonna try to turn the already monster into a monster.

>THEREFORE Morbius will definitely counter with hypnosis.

Why? DIO ALWAYS lets his characters attack first,

Except all those times he didn't my dude, you brought up Part 3, you're not just gonna get to ignore it now.
And mind you, Dio's attitude changed BECAUSE he learns from his mistakes and is said as much by multiple sources. Dio after his fight with Jonathan never lets his foes attack first, he always attacks as soon as they start fighting.

so Morbius hypnotizes once he realizes his hands gets frozen after the first strike.

Except no, we're not using Dio using flash freeze for the first time, and we aren't using Dio actively going out of his way to not freeze his foe beyond a specific superficial point for an ulterior goal that only applies to a specific character. It's better to think of Morb punching the same way Dire got treated, that being, frozen and immobilized on contact. In which case, see above.

If for some reason Dio wants to freeze his body, DIO never freezes the entire body, whether he wants to take life force or not, so Morbius STILL counters with Hypnosis.

For some reason? You mean willing to kill (And Dio willing to kill always goes for quick kills, and sometimes, he won't even say anything).
Dio literally froze Dire's entire body within the span of one panel, so fast that it was said to be an instant. This is how Morbius is going to have to fight. And Morb, again, is going to be ****** if he engages in CQC. And again at range.

Also you're so caught up on disingenuous Dio actions that you kinda left out the fact that Morb himself talks in fights as well, ignoring your exaggeration of Dio's behavior, Morb isn't much different in terms of talking and saying shit. You're being dishonest, disingenuous, actively left out context and information and that's almost all you've done, like come on man you know better.

Also I want it be known, I was gonna vote Morb at first when I was under the impression he had High-Mid Regen and was like 8 tons+. b̵u̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵n̵ ̵I̵ ̵l̵e̵a̵r̵n̵e̵d̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵w̵a̵s̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵o̵n̵l̵y̵ ̵h̵a̵l̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵r̵e̵g̵e̵n̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵a̵t̵e̵v̵e̵r̵ ̵ ̵ Voting Dio still under the fact that isn't the case tho.

 

[Shey]

Holy shit, I read all that.

 

[Popted2]

Arnold i suggest you to give up with Chariot, this man is a ******* beast in debating

 

[Arceus0x]

Damn

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Chariot explanation is like reading the manga again, I normally don´t bother to explain everything in detail and my argument was like Dio vs Jonathan or Dio vs Jack where Dio see a interesting guy and wants him to offer to join and if not, mind control or flash freeze depending of his mood, Dio is not going to be the first to throw a punch in this part

So yeah, voting Dio FRA and my own reasoning that would make that Morbius wins if he starts with Mind control at first while Dio is just talking, and this is if both are in character, because the threath said "bloodthirsty" and for what I understand, then is Morbius punch, Dio flash freeze, the end

If this is bloodlust that both starts with their best hax, then is Morbius win or inconclusive because Dio would also start with mind control (is literally his best ability) and then both starts spamming that

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The worst part is that if I was debating chariot with a character I actually love and knowledgeable about, is actually read all of that

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Counted everyone's votes

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lad, in that VERY same scan it says it was hard as **** to do, and then he gets punched in the face because it strained him. Based on that scan, I'm lead to believe the exact opposite, it ISN'T a viable dodge method, and in fact leaves him open for a follow up attack

THIS IS STRAWMAN

HIS THROAT IS LITERALLY MESSED UP... HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME EASILY


Nahh if I attempt to read that I'm going to go insane. I'll try but won't respond since everyone is voting DIO

 

[Arceus0x]

I would read and respons... Though i won't cause i dont know much about morbius

 

[Comiphorous]

DIO sells 1 morbillion tickets FRA

 

[Chariot190]

THIS IS STRAWMAN

HIS THROAT IS LITERALLY MESSED UP... HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME EASILY


Nahh if I attempt to read that I'm going to go insane. I'll try but won't respond since everyone is voting DIO

That isn't a strawman (at all actually... that literally isnt what a strawman is?), I'm just reading what the scan says. I'd also like to point out GR says "oh, ok? Fists it is". Implying that fists work just fine). Another thing I wanna point out is, if you look closely, when he Morphs, every part of him is still connected, what's that mean? It means if Dio uses SRSE and arcs his beam to do a slicing motion, he actually can't morb around it. He can morph bursts or pinpoint attacks, but in order to morph around a sweeping arc he'd have to separate his whole body in half, something that from what I can see, he can't do.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That isn't a strawman (at all actually... that literally isnt what a strawman is?)

You said he struggles, ignoring the fact he is injured. Strawman is a misinterpretation of an argument to corrupt the main interpretation making debating your stance easier.

Another thing I wanna point out is, if you look closely, when he Morphs, every part of him is still connected, what's that mean? It means if Dio uses SRSE and arcs his beam to do a slicing motion, he actually can't morb around it. He can morph bursts or pinpoint attacks, but in order to morph around a sweeping arc he'd have to separate his whole body in half, something that from what I can see, he can't do.

He can disconnect around it following the slicing motion and he also does that so he doesn’t get injured or feel anything when a car runs him over so he may not actually be reacting to anything the projectile’s force creates the holes in his pushing state instead.

No point arguing again jeez. Dio has won via his flash freezing.

 

[Comiphorous]

DIO IS GONNA MORB ALL OVER YA

 

[Chariot190]

You said he struggles, ignoring the fact he is injured. Strawman is a misinterpretation of an argument to corrupt the main interpretation making debating your stance easier.

No, again, not what a strawman is, if you post a single, out of context page without sourcing anything.
Yeah no, I read what it says. Any issues on that is your fault, not mine. Maybe stop posting one off scans without context, while you're at, given it's comics, give issue number and date as well given that's a requirement when it comes to comic scans on this site.
I said he struggles because he dodges and goes aghh im struggling, if there's extra context to that, that's on you for failing to supply it.

He can disconnect around it following the slicing motion and he also does that so he doesn’t get injured or feel anything when a car runs him over so he may not actually be reacting to anything the projectile’s force creates the holes in his pushing state instead.

Show that he's able to disconnect himself against a wide sweeping arc that could cut him in half, I've seen him morph holes, I've seen him change his shape a decent bit, but I haven't seen anything suggesting he can basically split in half. And then Dio just shifts his eyes slightly because it's a large beam and the further the distance, the larger the arc with less the movement.
A̵n̵d̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵M̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵e̵v̵e̵n̵ ̵e̵x̵p̵e̵c̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵?̵ ̵Y̵o̵u̵ ̵a̵r̵g̵u̵e̵d̵ ̵h̵e̵'̵d̵ ̵k̵n̵o̵w̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵w̵a̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵,̵ ̵M̵a̵r̵v̵e̵l̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵s̵ ̵a̵r̵e̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵c̵a̵p̵a̵b̵l̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵d̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵.̵ ̵I̵f̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵t̵h̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵d̵ ̵c̵a̵t̵c̵h̵ ̵M̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵o̵f̵f̵g̵u̵a̵r̵d̵ ̵w̵h̵e̵n̵ ̵D̵i̵o̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵o̵t̵s̵ ̵l̵a̵s̵e̵r̵s̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵e̵y̵e̵s̵.̵ ̵
E̵v̵e̵n̵ ̵i̵f̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵,̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵e̵x̵a̵c̵t̵l̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵m̵o̵n̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵d̵u̵d̵e̵s̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵e̵y̵e̵b̵e̵a̵m̵ ̵u̵n̵l̵e̵s̵s̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵'̵r̵e̵ ̵C̵y̵c̵l̵o̵p̵s̵ ̵

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No, again, not what a strawman is, if you post a single, out of context page without sourcing anything.
Yeah no, I read what it says. Any issues on that is your fault, not mine. Maybe stop posting one off scans without context, while you're at, given it's comics, give issue number and date as well given that's a requirement when it comes to comic scans on this site.
I said he struggles because he dodges and goes aghh im struggling, if there's extra context to that, that's on you for failing to supply it.

If it’s an accident it still counts, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU BRING IT UP AGAIN AFTER GIVEN CONTEXT. In the page prior Ghost rider strangled him! HE IS IN PAIN. Bro… pleaseeee YOUVE WON, LEAVE ME ALONE

 

[Comiphorous]

YOUVE WON, LEAVE ME ALONE

Chariot is Morbing you Arnold, he's not gonna stop.

 

[Popted2]

also whats the vote count?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Show that he's able to disconnect himself against a wide sweeping arc that could cut him in half, I've seen him morph holes, I've seen him change his shape a decent bit, but I haven't seen anything suggesting he can basically split in half. And then Dio just shifts his eyes slightly because it's a large beam and the further the distance, the larger the arc with less the movement.
A̵n̵d̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵M̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵e̵v̵e̵n̵ ̵e̵x̵p̵e̵c̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵?̵ ̵Y̵o̵u̵ ̵a̵r̵g̵u̵e̵d̵ ̵h̵e̵'̵d̵ ̵k̵n̵o̵w̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵w̵a̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵,̵ ̵M̵a̵r̵v̵e̵l̵ ̵v̵a̵m̵p̵i̵r̵e̵s̵ ̵a̵r̵e̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵c̵a̵p̵a̵b̵l̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵d̵o̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵.̵ ̵I̵f̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵t̵h̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵d̵ ̵c̵a̵t̵c̵h̵ ̵M̵o̵r̵b̵ ̵o̵f̵f̵g̵u̵a̵r̵d̵ ̵w̵h̵e̵n̵ ̵D̵i̵o̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵o̵t̵s̵ ̵l̵a̵s̵e̵r̵s̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵e̵y̵e̵s̵.̵ ̵
E̵v̵e̵n̵ ̵i̵f̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵,̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵e̵x̵a̵c̵t̵l̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵m̵m̵o̵n̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵d̵u̵d̵e̵s̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵e̵y̵e̵b̵e̵a̵m̵ ̵u̵n̵l̵e̵s̵s̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵'̵r̵e̵ ̵C̵y̵c̵l̵o̵p̵s̵ ̵

Wasn’t DIO literally falling out of control? The slice arc was an accident. And Morbius can still dodge like Jonathan did. And he is comparable to DIO.

Im pretty sure a vampire in marvel 616 has done this once. And I dropped that point about determining DIO’s physiology. Even though DIO would be intrigued by Morbius and reveal himself as one.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

also whats the vote count?

4 votes or 5 if I didn’t counted @Arceus0x twice

I’m still in this… nice.

meh I’ll respond to @Chariot190 Light novel then

 

[Chariot190]

Wasn’t DIO literally falling out of control? The slice arc was an accident. And Morbius can still dodge like Jonathan did. And he is comparable to DIO.

Exactly, he was falling, now imagine if Dio, not as a disembodied head used it. he'd actually be able to aim.
And no, Jonathan DIDN'T dodge, Jonathan got lucky, he says himself, if you even read, that if he was a inch to the right, he would have had his brain destroyed.
And fyi, the beam arced toward the back behind Jonathan because as mentioned, when you have a huge beam, the further the distance it is, the wider the sweeping arc it does with less the movement you do.
If Dio moved his eyes, just to look in his peripheral, from like 20m away, it'd be a huge arc that covers a wide area even though Dio only moved his eyes like, half a millimeter. This is actual kindergarten tier science and something we straight up see happen on panel.

If you seriously argue that Dio wouldn't aim at Morb or try to hit him with SRSE in a situation he isn't just a freefalling head, just stop, the arc is a byproduct of aim and adjusting said aim.

Im pretty sure a vampire in marvel 616 has done this once.

Ok prove it.

And I dropped that point about determining DIO’s physiology.

Ah but you still argued it did you not? And that was best case fyi, Morb would expect laserbeam eyes even less if he thinks Dio is just a haughty dude.

Even though DIO would be intrigued by Morbius and reveal himself as one.

Do I need to go through every time Dio encountered a new foe and didn't reveal himself as one? The times he hadn't, outnumber the times he did be tenfold. Also, Dio never actually uses the term vampire in those instances, he just calls himself beyond human.

meh I’ll respond to @Chariot190 Light novel then

Telling you right now you better ******* stop with your twisting and ignorance of scenes and events, it's actually a piss off. You want to respond? Stop leaving out context, basic ass info and then playing it off like that's actually the case.

Also I looked up the raws, Dio literally only needs one touch to win, the two seconds in the raws is referring to how long the total effect takes, but he says himself he only actually needs a mere touch to start it up - he doesn't need to actually hold them for that whole time.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Nevermind. DIO FRA

 

[Arnoldstone18]

seems like you aren’t having as much fun as I am. Sorry ig.

Exactly, he was falling, now imagine if Dio, not as a disembodied head used it. he'd actually be able to aim.
And no, Jonathan DIDN'T dodge, Jonathan got lucky, he says himself, if you even read, that if he was a inch to the right, he would have had his brain destroyed.
And fyi, the beam arced toward the back behind Jonathan because as mentioned, when you have a huge beam, the further the distance it is, the wider the sweeping arc it does with less the movement you do.
If Dio moved his eyes, just to look in his peripheral, from like 20m away, it'd be a huge arc that covers a wide area even though Dio only moved his eyes like, half a millimeter. This is actual kindergarten tier science and something we straight up see happen on panel.

If you seriously argue that Dio wouldn't aim at Morb or try to hit him with SRSE in a situation he isn't just a freefalling head, just stop, the arc is a byproduct of aim and adjusting said aim.

Morbius will dodge it if Jonathan can, even better with his morphing abilities that will let the laser go straight through or he morphs his body in a way that makes him easily react. So It does not matter if it’s an arc. A beam with 2x Lesser AP is not a wincon.

Ok prove it.

It’s irrelevant to discussion, I said that with the mindset we were joking around.

Ah but you still argued it did you not? And that was best case fyi, Morb would expect laserbeam eyes even less if he thinks Dio is just a haughty dude.

It exists before I dropped it, yes. And DIO won’t even see the hypnosis coming too.

Do I need to go through every time Dio encountered a new foe and didn't reveal himself as one? The times he hadn't, outnumber the times he did be tenfold. Also, Dio never actually uses the term vampire in those instances, he just calls himself beyond human.

Fair point.

Telling you right now you better ******* stop with your twisting and ignorance of scenes and events, it's actually a piss off. You want to respond? Stop leaving out context, basic ass info and then playing it off like that's actually the case.

Also I looked up the raws, Dio literally only needs one touch to win, the two seconds in the raws is referring to how long the total effect takes, but he says himself he only actually needs a mere touch to start it up - he doesn't need to actually hold them for that whole time

I’m not twisting anything, you should’ve asked instead of affirming your conclusions. And my ignorance pisses you off?.. lol okay.

What is your response to Dire’s head still unfrozen or have you already responded to that.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Arnold i suggest you to give up with Chariot, this man is a ******* beast in debating

chariot is one of the top 5 debators in site
anyways, I vote DIO FRA.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Grace

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I’m not twisting anything, you should’ve asked instead of affirming your conclusions. And my ignorance pisses you off?.. lol okay.

What is your response to Dire’s head still unfrozen or have you already responded to that.

no, you "twisting shit, along with your ignornace" + "leaving out context, basic info" etc is what is a "piss off" according to him, not just your "ignorance"