Battle of the Conceptual Entities: Madoka Kaname vs Absolute Law

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Both 2-A, and speed is equalized.

Who wins?

Madoka Kaname:

Absolute Law: 2

Inconclusive: 2

 

[Keeweed]

How good is absolute law's power null, because she doesn't have mind resistance on her page so Madoka could just mind hax her.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Her power nullification is just an application of her law manipulation, basically she opens her eyes and her target are paralyzed with fear and also lose their ability to charge mana and lose all the mana they charge, so basically in game terms you need a certain amount of mana to use certain abilities, well now you have absolutely no mana, so you can't use your abilities.

How good is it? As i said it's an application her law manipulation, Absolute Law was given the authority and strength over all the laws in the Time Tree which has infinite universes, and she is the conceptual embodiment of those laws.

Another one of her law manipulating abilities is basically again she opens her eyes, and her opponent is compelled to be helpless, they can't attack or do anything.

 

[Keeweed]

Will I guess then it depends how fast Madoka is; if she uses mind hax before she opens her eye she wins, but that's probably unlikely so I'll go with Absolute Law for law manipulation.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1 for AL.

 

[Theglassman12]

Law should take this for the reasons stated above.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

2 for AL.

 

[Kaltias]

AL can do those things to other 2-As (people specifically unbound by the regular multiverse no less)?

And is that power null thing permanent?

It also sounds a lot like Madoka's conceptual manipulation so she could simply use this to counter the law manipulation.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

2-A's yes, cause she can do it to nozumu's party who are comparable to her, and nozumu himself who is capable of destroying the time tree, and has done so in the past, unbound by the regular multiverse? No, though really i wonder if law herself is unbound by the multiverse, she exists outside of the multiverse and time in the root of time tree, so i wonder. Actually no the root is where the multiverse was created and is outside of time, outside the multiverse? No just where it began.

Power null lasts 6 turns, see thing is though, she can just immediate do it again, everything within her gaze falls under her control, so her just continuing to look will reactivate it.

But on another note feel like i should start using the more op characters who are more straight forward like yaga or heaven's cloud nozumu since their power set is a lot more straight forward don't have to go through the whole concept manipulation not working on 2-A's stuff. But thought that would be a stomp so just went with law here.

 

[Kaltias]

Then I think that i'll vote inconclusive. 6 turns doesn't sound enough to count as incapacitation, and it doesn't look like either of them can bypass the defenses of the other (the Mid-Godly regen particularly).

For reference, Madoka existing in a higher plane compared to the multiverse comes from this.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1 for inconclusive.

That sounds a lot like what eternals are, upon becoming an eternal, the person is freed from the time axis of the universe in which they were born, all memories of them are erased, and history is rewritten so that they never existed.

But they don't exist in a higher plane though.

Anyway about abstracts, would creating an abstract mean you're yourself one? Et Ca Repha created absolute law when she created the multiverse, and she gave law the authority and strength over the laws of the multiverse. So logically anything law can do, she can, but being an abstract though is where i am not sure.

 

[Kaltias]

Well there is also the "unable to interact with anyone"/"no one can interact with you" thing. Madoka herself is forced to use m-bodies to interact with the multiverse given that her conceptual self can't.

I think that it would be only conceptual manip on the level of the abstract that you created.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea that unable to interact with, and no one can interact with part is impressive. How exactly would one go about killing someone like madoka with type 9 immortality? Guess you need feats of affecting such a being.

So just concept manipulation, as i thought, would creating an abstract give you limitless stamina i wonder, would think creating an infinite structure would? Not sure a conceptual on a multiversal being basically has no physical body so there is no physical body to get tired, likewise at that point numerical values in terms of lifting strength is meaningless, so they get immeasurable lifting strength.

Trying to understand abstracts, just getting into the higher parts of the tiering system lol, until some months ago only created like tier 6 characters.

 

[Kaltias]

Madoka's type 9 is bypassed by good enough conceptual manipulation (there are obviously other ways but that's the most straightforward). That's how Homura did it.

Creating it, probably no, but abstracts usually have limitless stamina

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So good concept manipulation, ok.

What would be op is if homura in addition to that concept manipulation, also had type 9 immortality... So op concept manipulation and hard to affect.

About homura just curious, does her time stop work on immeasurable beings?

 

[DodoNova2]

I will vote inconclusively for your reason

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

2 for inconclusive

 

[Kaltias]

Well, Homura is a conceptual being as well, we just need to know what this entails in term of powers.

No, it doesn't work on immeasurable characters

 

[DarkLK]

Eternals occur from a higher dimension than a time tree (Shinken Universe). Inside a time tree they are very limited. AL at full power should be much stronger.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea upon entering the time tree eternals are given a orichalchum name that limits their power.

Haven't seen anything said about the Eternity Sword universe being higher dimensional so far though.

Wonder if that's in the sequel to seinarukana? There was a big plot about chaos eternal vs some other group of eternals that began at the end of narukana route.

 

[DarkLK]

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Perhaps even a tree is a higher dimension.

 

[DarkLK]

Wonder if that's in the sequel to seinarukana?

Yeah, it should be in the sequel.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hmm, the time tree being higher dimensionsal, kinda glossed over that it seems.

As for the other stuff, don't know japanese, so don't know what it says.

Anyway, this is grounds for some upgrades it seems to High 2-A, since the time tree is a level above a universe.

Going to bed now, will see about those upgrades later.

 

[DarkLK]

That what are cyclic time lines inside are looks like just objects (like branches) from the outside. In addition, the restart of the tree of time affects even gods who are independent from the time and causality of individual branches. They are only depends of the fate and causality of the tree as a whole.

It says that the eternals live and fight within a high-dimensional universe. Also in the game itself, there was about the outside world. this thing.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Dark I made the revision thread, we can discuss it further there.