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Battle of Souls: United Offensive

WeeklyBattles said:
Okay so reading through what his shikai and bankai do why exactly would they make for viable barriers against nito's miasma? They don't make a true barrier, just a wall of millions of tiny blades that block attacks but that wouldn't exactly offer much protection against what amounts to an intangible force
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I've already thought about that. If the petals aren't able to effectively block the Miasma, the blades will begin to wither long before the Miasma reaches Byakuya, and that's when he Shunpos away or erects his barriers
 
Each Shinigami carries a Zanpakutō, and each Zanpakutō is unique: the swords are reflections of a Shinigami's power and soul, and sentient beings unto themselves. The Zanpakutō's name is the name of the living spirit which empowers the sword and lends its strength to the Shinigami who wields it. These beings can vary greatly in appearance, and have their own distinct personalities, which are similar to their owner's.

Basically, by pouring their soul into an empty sword, the sword gains a soul, making it seceptible to the Miasma.
 
A Zanpakuto is drawn from the soul but it isnt literally a soul. Those are still razor sharp steel pieces that look like petals due to light bouncing off them. The miasma is not gonna do much unless it has been shown affecting immaterial things before, or even better magical items.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Each Shinigami carries a Zanpakutō, and each Zanpakutō is unique: the swords are reflections of a Shinigami's power and soul, and sentient beings unto themselves. The Zanpakutō's name is the name of the living spirit which empowers the sword and lends its strength to the Shinigami who wields it. These beings can vary greatly in appearance, and have their own distinct personalities, which are similar to their owner's.
Basically, by pouring their soul into an empty sword, the sword gains a soul, making it seceptible to the Miasma.
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The Zanpakuto is sentient with a living spirit. Even if its just that Byakuya notices the death of the soul within the blade, he'd still erect the barrier, right?
 
Destroying the sword in its entirety wouldn't kill the spirit so there is no reason to say the miasma would kill Senbonzakura. We have seen Bankais get destroyed and the Zan Spirit still lives on without issue aside from the drop in power. Before anyone says destroying some petals would thus weaken Kageyoshi, it won't. Vertebrae of Hihio Zabimaru were destroyed but its power never decreased nor did Tensa whenever the Bankai shihakusho was damaged despite being part of the Bankai.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Destroying the sword in its entirety wouldn't kill the spirit so there is no reason to say the miasma would kill Senbonzakura. We have seen Bankais get destroyed and the Zan Spirit still lives on without issue aside from the drop in power. Before anyone says destroying some petals would thus weaken Kageyoshi, it won't. Vertebrae of Hihio Zabimaru were destroyed but its power never decreased nor did Tensa whenever the Bankai shihakusho was damaged despite being part of the Bankai.
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If the Miasma can affect souls, wouldn't it adversely affect Senbonzakura WITHIN the sword? Wouldn't Byakuya be able to sense that?
 
No. Pluses, Shinigami, Hollows, Visored, Arrancars, Quincy etc can all affect souls but none of them have ever affected the Zanpakito Spirit itself beyond a Medallion/pill specifically made to steal/Hollowify the spirit. Even when Bambi was nuking Kokujo Tengen Myooh with her Schrift, it just regen'd despite Quincies soul destruction which is a notch above pretty much every other soul manip in the verse that isn't Fullbringers.

The only situation in Bleach that is somewhat similar to this is Omaeda retracting Gegetsuburi when fighting Barragan but even this isn't a valid comparison as Respira would would have age manip'd his sword into nothing which would completely get rid of his Zan in its entirety so he can't channel the Spirit's power anymore whereas Kageyoshi is millions of blades rather than just one piece so losing a few pieces would have no bearing on the Spirit as seen with other Zan's that have multiple parts and still working fine if some are destroyed.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
No. Pluses, Shinigami, Hollows, Visored, Arrancars, Quincy etc can all affect souls but none of them have ever affected the Zanpakito Spirit itself beyond a Medallion/pill specifically made to steal/Hollowify the spirit. Even when Bambi was nuking Kokujo Tengen Myooh with her Schrift, it just regen'd despite Quincies soul destruction which is a notch above pretty much every other soul manip in the verse that isn't Fullbringers.
The only situation in Bleach that is somewhat similar to this is Omaeda retracting Gegetsuburi when fighting Barragan but even this isn't a valid comparison as Respira would would have age manip'd his sword into nothing which would completely get rid of his Zan in its entirety so he can't channel the Spirit's power anymore whereas Kageyoshi is millions of blades rather than just one piece so losing a few pieces would have no bearing on the Spirit as seen with other Zan's that have multiple parts and still working fine if some are destroyed.
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Tengen wasn't affected because the Humanification process gives Sajin and his Bankai invulnerability

If its can affect Senbonzakura, he would lose a lot more than a few blades, he'd lose all the blades the miasma touches. If it can't affect Senbonzakura, I'll need proof, because I see no reason why, if a Zanpakuto has a soul and this miasma can affect souls, Senbozakura wouldn't be affected at all
 
Also, I'd like to noted that neither of Nito's miasmas are 100% invisible. His intro cutscene Miasma looks similar to gas in that it has a very difficult to see shimmering look. It also brings a gust of strong wind which would be an easy identifier that some sort of invisible or hard to see attack had been launched. His other in game miasma is 100% visible and is just a massive explosion of darkness
 
Tengen straight up was affected, thats why big ass chunks of him were getting ripped out of him. Humanization technique only affect Sajin and it doesn't make him invulnerable but temporarily immortal, that being due to the regen. KTM (the enormous flaming avatar of reiatsu) was clearly being affected by the Explode but just kept going because even Quincies with their top tier soul hax (in verse) couldn't affect the Spirit itself aside from physically despite Bankais being the forceful manifestation of the Spirit from the Shinigami's soul. Bambi was hitting the very Spirit itself and still couldn't soul destroy him.

The notion that the miasma can affect the Zan spirit is just absurd as everyone and their mother in Bleach can affect souls but still fail to do anything to Zan Spirits even with the actual destruction of the Bankai, let alone just a portion of it which I have already provided evidence for not doing a thing to the Spirit in Hihio's vertebrae that Byakuya destroyed.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Tengen straight up was affected, thats why big ass chunks of him were getting ripped out of him. Humanization technique only affect Sajin and it doesn't make him invulnerable but temporarily immortal, that being due to the regen. KTM (the enormous flaming avatar of reiatsu) was clearly being affected by the Explode but just kept going because even Quincies with their top tier soul hax (in verse) couldn't affect the Spirit itself aside from physically despite Bankais being the forceful manifestation of the Spirit from the Shinigami's soul. Bambi was hitting the very Spirit itself and still couldn't soul destroy him.
The notion that the miasma can affect the Zan spirit is just absurd as everyone and their mother in Bleach can affect souls but still fail to do anything to Zan Spirits even with the actual destruction of the Bankai, let alone just a portion of it which I have already provided evidence for not doing a thing to the Spirit in Hihio's vertebrae that Byakuya destroyed.
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Tengen and Sajin share damage, so if Sajin can't be damaged by something, neither could Tengen. They had both become masses of reiatsu, so that's the reason for the "regen" affect. Sanjin's page even has invulnerability. If Sajin is invulnerable due to being a soul mass and Tengen shares his damage, Tengen can't take damage either, he'll just regen and it won't even effect him.

But the piece of Hihio could be physically destroyed. If the Zanpakuto is a sentient being, which it is, there is not reason why DM wouldn't work on it

Edit: it is not my intention to say that DM would kill Senbonzakura, it is to say that the petals can be affected because Senbonzakura is sentient
 
Except he isn't invulnerable in the traditional but immortal via regen. His "invulnerability" is specifically to physical damage as regardless of what hits him, the reiatsu that makes up his body will simply return to its normal shape. This also doesn't matter as Bambi was blowing up his face, chest and arms (by attacking KTM) with soul destruction but still didn't affect KTM in any fashion like you are saying the miasma would. And you somehow confuse invulnerability and immortality via regen. You can't say he won't take damage but immediately follow up with he will regen from the damage .... well you can but its just stupid to do so.

Who said Hihio couldn't physically be destroyed? I never said that, I was the one who brought Hihio being destroyed in the first place. My point is that destroying part of the Zan does nothing to the Spirit itself even in Bankai despite this being the actual Spirit being manifested outside of the Shinigami and Zan. You said destroying some petals would harm the actual spirit, Senbonzakura, despite me showing you multiple cases where destroying pieces of the Bankai does absolutely nothing. Even the actual, complete destruction of the Bankai doesn't do anything to the spirit itself (see Fullbring Tensa, KTM, Ryuumon Hozukimaru). Two of the examples given were the result of Quincies and their uber soul hax but the Spirit was still fine. If powers meant to destroy souls on a level that other soul manip that includes age manip, EE (soul EE to be exact) etc cannot achieve, why in gods name would this miasma do anything to Senbonzakura's spirit?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Except he isn't invulnerable in the traditional but immortal via regen. His "invulnerability" is specifically to physical damage as regardless of what hits him, the reiatsu that makes up his body will simply return to its normal shape. This also doesn't matter as Bambi was blowing up his face, chest and arms (by attacking KTM) with soul destruction but still didn't affect KTM in any fashion like you are saying the miasma would. And you somehow confuse invulnerability and immortality via regen. You can't say he won't take damage but immediately follow up with he will regen from the damage .... well you can but its just stupid to do so.
Who said Hihio couldn't physically be destroyed? I never said that, I was the one who brought Hihio being destroyed in the first place. My point is that destroying part of the Zan does nothing to the Spirit itself even in Bankai despite this being the actual Spirit being manifested outside of the Shinigami and Zan. You said destroying some petals would harm the actual spirit, Senbonzakura, despite me showing you multiple cases where destroying pieces of the Bankai does absolutely nothing. Even the actual, complete destruction of the Bankai doesn't do anything to the spirit itself (see Fullbring Tensa, KTM, Ryuumon Hozukimaru). Two of the examples given were the result of Quincies and their uber soul hax but the Spirit was still fine. If powers meant to destroy souls on a level that other soul manip that includes age manip, EE (soul EE to be exact) etc cannot achieve, why in gods name would this miasma do anything to Senbonzakura's spirit?
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Regenerationn (Low-Mid) and invulnerability to physical harm when using Bankai and the Humanization Technique. And tbf, the Explode is transmutation, meanings it was 100% working on Tengen, but he would just return to his original state.

Dude, I know... I used the point BECAUSE you brought it up. If Hiho can be physically destroyed (as you mentioned), and Zanpakutos are sentient (by its definition), then the petals can physically be destroyed via DM, which Byakuya would see, regardless of its effect on Sen's soul.
 
You are missing the fact that invulnerability means nothing in regards to her soul destruction. Soul destruction on the literal manifestation of the Bankai's soul and it did nothing. Miasma is still doing nothing unless it has superior feats to what occurred in Bleach. Yes they can be destroyed but being sentient is incorrect. The Spirit is sentient but the sword itself is not bar some cases like KTM and Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou. Do you mind explaining the miasma because from what I see on Nito's page, its just poison manip and is thus useless on Kageyoshi by virtue of it being metal. Without feats of it destroying metal, its nigh useless.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
You are missing the fact that invulnerability means nothing in regards to her soul destruction. Soul destruction on the literal manifestation of the Bankai's soul and it did nothing. Miasma is still doing nothing unless it has superior feats to what occurred in Bleach.
Yes they can be destroyed but being sentient is incorrect. The Spirit is sentient but the sword itself is not bar some cases like KTM and Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou. Do you mind explaining the miasma because from what I see on Nito's page, its just poison manip and is thus useless on Kageyoshi by virtue of it being metal. Without feats of it destroying metal, its nigh useless.
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The sword itself is defined as sentient. They later described the living spirit within the sword, but it would seem to me that, in context, the spirit within makes it sentient. If the Miasma can't affect the Zanpakuto, I don't see why it would affect Byakuya

His Miasma has Death, Disease and Poison Manipulation (Is stated to have created a miasma death and disease to kill the Eternal Dragons).
 
Because we have seen Zanpakuto being affected to the sort of thing you've described and nothing happens to them. At no point do we see Nito's miasma work on inanimate objects or magical items, which is what Zanpakuto are. Unless there's any feats of the miasma affecting stuff that wasn't living but have souls.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Because we have seen Zanpakuto being affected to the sort of thing you've described and nothing happens to them. At no point do we see Nito's miasma work on inanimate objects or magical items, which is what Zanpakuto are. Unless there's any feats of the miasma affecting stuff that wasn't living but have souls.
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First, they are literally described as sentient, that's not in question. Second, when was death manipulation used on a Zanpakuto? The closest thing I can remember is Barragan, but that's age manipulation, so it would be more about degradation
 
Whixh doesn't make them stop being inanimate objects.

And your second point is... weird? When we do see Nito's miasma kill souls? Because that's the only thing Nito can "kill". Unless that Death Manipulation has added Soul Destruction to it, or magical objects, Nito's miasma keeps doing nothing.
 
Because the word Zanpakuto is also used to refer to the Spirit as well as the physical sword. That doesn't change the fact they are two different things whose condition has no bearing on the other beyond the amount of power the Shinigami in question can bring to bear, which (once again) I have proven multiple times over. Byakuya and the Zanpakuto are two different things. One is a person who is perfectly susceptible to death, disease and poison, the other is a crap ton of metal that is not.

Can miasma affect non organics with those manips? Because if it doesn't even have that, the Zan is perfectly fine and Byakuya bodies from range with a tsunami of blades.

Also isn't the miasma magic or something? Byakuya would sense and avoid it with his reikaku.
 
In the opening cutscene his miasma disintegrates what looked like some stones to me. It could've been something else, but it looked like rocks to me.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Whixh doesn't make them stop being inanimate objects.
And your second point is... weird? When we do see Nito's miasma kill souls? Because that's the only thing Nito can "kill". Unless that Death Manipulation has added Soul Destruction to it, or magical objects, Nito's miasma keeps doing nothing.
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Wait if miasma doesn't work on souls, it won't work on Byakuya, right?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
In the opening cutscene his miasma disintegrates what looked like some stones to me. It could've been something else, but it looked like rocks to me.
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I thought it may have been rock, but I suppose it's not impossible for it to be the corpse of a dragon (though personally I believe it to be rock)
 
I think the most important points to discuss rn is whether or not the Miasma can affect souls and whether or not it can affect inanimate objects. If it can't affect souls, the Miasma wouldn't affect Byakuya anyway, and if it can, there are no problems. If the Miasma can affect inanimate objects then the argument on whether or not Zanpakuto are sentient or not is irrelevant.
 
I went and rewatched the cutscene, and he Miasmas the root of an Archtree. Which are completely inorganic, so take that as you will.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I went and rewatched the cutscene, and he Miasmas the root of an Archtree. Which are completely inorganic, so take that as you will.
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Excellent, so the Miasma should be able to wither Zanpakuto, regardless on someone's stance on it being alive
 
It should be able to also affect souls considering almost everything seems to affect souls in Dark Souls, but I could be wrong.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
It should be able to also affect souls considering almost everything seems to affect souls in Dark Souls, but I could be wrong.
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He has soul Manipulation on his profile, so I doubt he can't affect souls with his attacks
 
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