Battle for Top 5 strongest Unknown: Kindred vs Jessica Sorrow

[Schnee_One]

What am I doing

Speed is Equal.

Kindred:

Jessica Sorrow:

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Jesssica lacks the range to kill him but he can't bypass her defenses.

Inconclusive.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I feel like whether or not erasure from Jessica would kill the entire being would depend on how much speculation one would want to go into.

I definitely don't see Kindred getting past the defensive side of her unbelief based on what's on the page, though. Like, at all.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I mean, it seems NLF to assume she would kill something she doesent "see", since (correct me if I'm wrong in this I haven't read the books) I'm fairly certain she needs to perceive something in order for it to disappear.

With that being said Kindred ain't killing her. I vote incon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

How does Jessica work?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

1-B passive subjective reality. She believes nothing is real besides herself, causing anything she perceives to cease to exist.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I mean, it seems NLF to assume she would kill something she doesent "see", since (correct me if I'm wrong in this I haven't read the books) I'm fairly certain she needs to perceive something in order for it to disappear.

It's never quite elaborated upon in that much detail, but that isn't exactly what the text describes. What the text says is that things disappear ("Gone forever.") once they're exposed to her unbelief. The problem is that the above could just as easily mean that her absentmindedly thinking about something could cause it to disappear by consquence, and we're never given a scenario that confirms or denies that.

How does Jessica work?

Basically what Zach said. She has 1-B Subjective Reality powers that simultaneously erase anything that catches her attention and nullify anything that's used against her due to her not perceiving either as real.
And, as I've said a few times before, that reads like an NLF, but the nature of her setting sets a really high ceiling for what the above encompasses. Especially since the Street of the Gods is explicitly mentioned as being terrified of her, and that same Street is elaborated to have...a lot of really esoteric shit, to put it mildly.

 

[Udlmaster]

Honestly, I thought it was a completely different kind of Kindred and I've only let myself down.

 

[Rocker1189]

seems like inconclusive to me, she has no real way of finishing Kindred ether. Though I am not sure how she can end up nullifying something that she would not have seen regardless. And she is fighting death it self with no immortalities whatsoever.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

If hitting her from another universe, timeline, et cetera or just hitting her with something she never saw coming were all it took, someone would have done that already. There are multiple characters who can affect people in other universes and timelines with their powers (including someone she's outright stated to be capable of beating in a fight), and she's still walking around, scaring everyone in the Nightside into hiding.

As well, conceptual embodiments on a multiversal scale are nothing new to Jessica's setting, or even the Nightside by itself. That's what Transient Beings are, and at least two of those Transient Beings walk openly in the Nightside and operate there extensively. Not only is there implication that they're included in the list of "everybody" who can't kill Jessica Sorrow, but one character Jessica is stated to be able to beat in a fight (should it ever happen) very comfortably scales past the level that Transient Beings are at.

Pair that with the fact that John Taylor has no way of killing her and freely admits that he himself is downright terrified of her. The same guy who can use his powers to, among many (many, many, many...) other things, "find another's death" and hit them with it directly.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ah well, then yeah inconclusive is all I got.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Yeah, I ultimately think it's inconclusive as well. I think it'll take maybe a handful of times getting erased after (and/or before) Jessica walls everything thrown at her before Kindred just says **** it and stops trying to attack her since, if I'm being honest, the possibility of erasing the entire being at once is based on very shaky grounds at best.

For the Top 5 Strongest list's purposes though, I do think Jessica is ultimately the "stronger" of the two. Her powers are much more potent, and it takes a lot more to actually kill her. Or even affect her properly, really. I see her winning against far more characters as well as far more ridiculous ones than Kindred would be capable of beating, and when it comes to a ranking list type of deal, I think that matters the most.

 

[Schnee_One]

Depends on how she handles the top 4

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay, question, just before i vote. Can Jessica die?

 

[Udlmaster]

Depends on how one interprates her dissapearing, as she says if she stops focusing on herself she'll dissapear until she focuses on herself again, that was the way I read it.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Okay, question, just before i vote. Can Jessica die?

Probably not, or at least not within the context of a setting like LoL. The only thing that's directly stated to be able to stop her is the woman herself not believing she's real anymore, or focusing on her own reality. And even then, it's implied that moments like that are just her "hibernating" periods where she seems to disappear entirely for no reason, only to come back later and scare the shit out of everyone.

In fact, outside of all that, the only being who's even hinted directly to be able to affect her is the Walking Man. Who is literally "God's wrath, as a man" and can basically ignore every law and rule of the setting in favor of his own.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

so she's basically schrodinger alucard

Okay so the reason i ask is on top of being the concept of death, Kindred is also the concept of the act of dying. If a being can die by any means Kindred is able to make those means happen.

Also if she needs to perceive Kindred to affect them its kinda going to be hard for her to do so seeing as Kindred is both imperceptible to mortals and regularly makes themselves completely undetectable to people around them.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

If he were somehow even more broken, and also pretty ******* batshit insane, sure.

Well, I don't think that's enough in this case.

For one, John Taylor is able to do something similar, by literally "finding another's death". I know he doesn't exist as "the act of dying", but the mechanics would be mostly the same.

For another, people who can take any possibility in the setting and make them real are not anywhere close to being capable of enforcing her death. One of those characters is Count Video, a character who can literally see all of the infinite timelines in the setting "flowing past him" and enforce aspects, events, happenings, et cetera of any one of those timelines upon the one he's currently inhabiting (so basically, if you die in a timeline, he can find how you die and make it happen here and now), with said powers granted to him by the verse's 1-B conceptual embodiment of technology...and he's not just unable to do anything to her; he's scared shitless of her, even after she starts getting her unbelief nonsense under more control towards the end of the series.

For third, Transient Beings (the 1-B conceptual embodiments I mentioned above) inhabit the Nighside, mainly the Street of the Gods. The entire Street of the Gods closes itself down and hides whenever Jessica is walking around.

For fourth, as I said earlier, the only thing that's outright stated to stop her in the setting is her not maintaining her own existence with her own force of will. And as I also said earlier, it's possible that said cessation of her existence is only temporary until she starts concentrating again. I know it sounds ******* stupid, but that's the only way to explain the periods in which she's stated to go to sleep and/or seemingly disappear off the face of the Earth and then re-emerge again, since...well, if not concentrating her will on her existence were to erase her permanently, then going to sleep would have killed her a long time ago.

So no, if I had to say conclusively based on what (admittedly somewhat scarce) evidence we're given, I'd tentatively say that don't really think she can die in the end. Not without literal divine intervention within the setting, anyway. Or some bigger smurf coming along and stomping a mudhole in her ass.

 

[Udlmaster]

so she's basically schrodinger alucard
Okay so the reason i ask is on top of being the concept of death, Kindred is also the concept of the act of dying. If a being can die by any means Kindred is able to make those means happen.

Also if she needs to perceive Kindred to affect them its kinda going to be hard for her to do so seeing as Kindred is both imperceptible to mortals and regularly makes themselves completely undetectable to people around them.

Unlikely to work, John can "find" someone's death and inflict it on them, including a being from the Outside which are Deathless and who's Death was in anothe infinite Dimension.

Yet John can't use that on Jessica.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Incon it is then

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

" For fourth, as I said earlier, the only thing that's outright stated to stop her in the setting is her not maintaining her own existence with her own force of will. And as I also said earlier, it's possible that said cessation of her existence is only temporary until she starts concentrating again. I know it sounds ******* stupid, but that's the only way to explain the periods in which she's stated to go to sleep and/or seemingly disappear off the face of the Earth and then re-emerge again, since...well, if not concentrating her will on her existence were to erase her permanently, then going to sleep would have killed her a long time ago."

Shouldn't this be Regenerationn Low Godly?

Or Nonexistent Physiology?

 

[Udlmaster]

" For fourth, as I said earlier, the only thing that's outright stated to stop her in the setting is her not maintaining her own existence with her own force of will. And as I also said earlier, it's possible that said cessation of her existence is only temporary until she starts concentrating again. I know it sounds ******* stupid, but that's the only way to explain the periods in which she's stated to go to sleep and/or seemingly disappear off the face of the Earth and then re-emerge again, since...well, if not concentrating her will on her existence were to erase her permanently, then going to sleep would have killed her a long time ago."
Shouldn't this be Regenerationn Low Godly?

Or Nonexistent Physiology?

Since she's erasing herself, likely High-Godly as it affects Conceptual beings like the Engineer and such.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Either High Godly or type 2 nonexistence