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Battle for 7-A 3rd place: King Hassan vs Edmond Dantes

Avenger takes it hands down. King Hassan can potentially win for sure, but i find it much more likely that Dantes goes into his immeasurable speed and blitzes to hell.

For these reasons, I vote Dantes
 
Due to what Solacis has said before, I must realize that I gotta say a big no to immeasurable speed. He can still blitz, but it's actually not something that happens - Dantes just accelerating to top speed and attacking like that, is what I mean.

But he can still blitz hard.
 
What do you mean? At the point that he has multiple versions of himself seemingly existing at the same time, he has reach immeasurable speed. In the 2 on screen appearences we have seen from him where he was actually trying to win, the first time he burned away the souls of a bunch of demons, and in the second time he instantly blitzed Fergus to hell the second his master gave him the order to kill. He opens with immeasurable speed.
 
You... Don't need to reach immeasurable speed to achieve that, even against a Servant. He doesn't just go and attack all of the demon pillars at the same time, or attack everyone so fast they don't even think before it's done, or more like everyone on the stage before they even get a figure chance.

From the Servants Reaction ratings to immeasurable there is, by definition, plenty of space for Dantes to move so quick he looks like more than one of him to opponents comparable to Servants, yet not be immeasurable.
 
I was not saying that he needs immeasurable speed for there to be multiple versions of himself, but when you see they multiple versions of him then you know that he has reached that point. We do not actually see him attack the demon pillars on screen iirc, we just know that he did in fact attack them. Also, everyone there was already technically outside of space and time so it isn't exactly conventional circumstances. He actually did exactly that against Fergus, the second his master ordered him to kill. The only 2 other times we have seen him fight on screen, he just flexed his flames and burned away the souls of a bunch of demons, and the other he was expressly trying to lose.

I am not sure what you are trying to say in this latter point. Would you mind rephrasing?
 
So how is Dantès going to detect KH? He did manage to sneak into Ozy's temple and almost kill him before anyone could react.
 
Yeah even if gramps sneaks up on dantes once he is revealed dante goes lolimmesurable and destroys

So dantes fra

Also for the immeasurable thing. Yes he does it literally any time he uses Chateau d'if because funny enough that is the only thing Chateau can really do. Chateau D'if lets him escape any prison. This includes the metaphysical prison of time which makes him immeasurable, that happens every time he uses the np it's not a choice based thing
 
That's quite honestly asinine and untrue. The NP lets him accelerate to the point he can even escape the prison of space at time, not only and that's a gross misreading of what it's supposed to do.

And no Iapitus, I don't need to know he's at that level when he's doing that because you don't need to go immeasurable to do that. We wouldn't even be able to see or know that he's attacked the Demon Pillars at all, because they would already be dead by the time we can perceive it if he's going at that speed. Blitzing a Servant as well would simply not necessitate that level of speed and there's nothing to prove the opposite.

What I am trying to say is rather simple, nothing shows that Dantes goes at that speed at the start, or even later. He doesn't need to to accomplish what he does. He still totally can blitz Gramps though.
 
The Np's description is literally that it lets him escape any prison

It never once mentions speeding up

The speeding up is a side effect of escaping the metaphysical prison of time I'm not sure why people think it's a speed boost that lets him escape time
 
His NP is actually about speed, the application is escaping The description is literally that Dantes' mental prowess and super immense thinking speed is forcefully applied to his body. He then moves at subjective speeds that can make what appears like a time halt happen.

Which... you can achieve without going at the top speed.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
That's quite honestly asinine and untrue. The NP lets him accelerate to the point he can even escape the prison of space at time, not only and that's a gross misreading of what it's supposed to do.

And no Iapitus, I don't need to know he's at that level when he's doing that because you don't need to go immeasurable to do that. We wouldn't even be able to see or know that he's attacked the Demon Pillars at all, because they would already be dead by the time we can perceive it if he's going at that speed. Blitzing a Servant as well would simply not necessitate that level of speed and there's nothing to prove the opposite.

What I am trying to say is rather simple, nothing shows that Dantes goes at that speed at the start, or even later. He doesn't need to to accomplish what he does. He still totally can blitz Gramps though.
Click to expand...
No, his NP is not letting him accelorate. His NP lets him escape prisons, and he uses it to go fast by escaping from time and space.

You missed my point completely. Here is the quote from the guide:

"The mental power of steel fostered in the hellish Château d'If converted into a Noble Phantasm. Not to mention the body, the King of the Cavern escapes even from abstract prisons such as time and space.
By performing super high-speed thinking and forcibly reflecting that on the body, he subjectively realizes a super high-speed action that makes seems like a "time halt" is being employed.**

In this work, it takes the shape of a simultaneous multi-attack by means of the "offshots" resulted from the high-speed movement."

No acceloration is mentioned. The NP is used to excape from Prisons, and by applying it to his body he escapes time and applys it to speed. As you can see from the latter part of the quote, the multi-attack just shows he is using the immeasurable speed attack. The "speed clones" how how they represent the activation of his NP, so when there are multiple versions of him around, you know he has employed immeasurable speed. You interpretation is completely wrong, and no acceloration is involved in his Noble Phantasm at all.

The manga for prison tower shows he does in fact open with his Immeasurable speed. Case closed
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
His NP is actually about speed, the application is escaping The description is literally that Dantes' mental prowess and super immense thinking speed is forcefully applied to his body. He then moves at subjective speeds that can make what appears like a time halt happen.
Which... you can achieve without going at the top speed.
Click to expand...
The guide that I linked above says the exact opposite, and you are completely wrong. He applies his ability to escape prisons to his body, and escapes from time and space. Thinking fast is how he activates it and applies it to his body. Basically that just means it is thought activated. There is no mention of acceloration anywhere in the description
 
Care to show said manga?

"By performing super-high speed thinking and forcibly reflecting that on his body".

Oh yes, saying the exact opposite of what I said.
 
Sure, here it is, happy to help. You can find it if you need it again on google just by searching "prison tower fgo manga". This is actually the only place we see Dantes fight on screen. As we see, He opens by burning away the souls of demons, blitzing Fergus to hell the instant his master Ordered it, and 3rd one he openned with general combat but he wanted to lose so it doesn't count.

"The mental power of steel fostered in the hellish Château d'If converted into a Noble Phantasm. Not to mention the body, the King of the Cavern escapes even from abstract prisons such as time and space.:

Yes, the opposite of what you said. You are correct that he thinks fast to activate it, but as it clearly says, he applies his NP to his body to escape from time and space.
 
Fergus doesn't want a Man? HERESY, NON CANON!!

The NP description is not about him escaping the Chateu, is about the abnormally strong mental power he fostered in the prison. It directly mentions he thinks at speeds that would be unfatomable, if not deadly, for anyone else and then forces his body to keep up with this same speed to move at subjective times that make everything seem frozen. Far as I am aware, that's as clear cut as you can get that his body is speeding up to match his thoughts, not anything about him thinking fast and then going immeasurable right away.

But I guess agree to disagree. I still think Gramps gets blitzed.
 
It has to do with mentality a bit, but its primary ability is to escape prisons. He may force his body to keep up, but its used to escape the prisons of time and space which likely grants him that thought speed. You do make an interesting point tho, perhaps he is thinking at Immeasurable speeds all the time? And then he applies that to his body to make it go that fast.

Sure, although perhaps an upgrade is in order if he is thinking at such speeds all the time
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Can Avenger even get past that EX Battle Continuation + Protection of the Faith?
Click to expand...
Shouldn't using the soul burning fire be enough

It permanently killed Roa and stopped him from reincarnating
 
Well I mean

Kiara is a servant technically

And Goetia uses Solomon's body and Solomon was a servant ovo
 
That... hardly qualifies.

Kiara as a servant is far, far weaker than Kiara as a BEAST.

And Goetia was using Solomon's body, yes, but Solomon is also an absurdly powerful Grand Servant. And Goetia was still a BEAST.
 
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