Battle For 1st place 3-A non-smurf: Satan vs Chen Qi

[Muchacho_mrm]

The images link to their profiles.

---

Speed Equalized.
SBA.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Bump

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Thread theme

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

how good is chen hax. Satan has dispel bound to resist hax

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Is that some sort of forcefield/aura that negates hax? They can already absorb hax, remove it, erase it, modify it and null it. Or just a forcefield or their destructive aura to negate it. So I don't think it is helpful in this match.

Also Chen Qi is one of the top new world cultivators in this key and has the new world abilities listed here.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Is that some sort of forcefield/aura that negates hax? They can already absorb hax, remove it, erase it, modify it and null it. Or just a forcefield or their destructive aura to negate it. So I don't think it is helpful in this match.

Also Chen Qi is one of the top new world cultivators in this key and has the new world abilities listed here.

the first

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Bump.

 

[PainKiller07]

Bastard!! is undergoing a lil revision atm. If you want a real match then wait a bit

Regardless, I'd first like to ask how would Chenqi deal with conceptual EE/Null that is 5+ layers in potency

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Reply to this thread once the revision is finished. Also Chen Qi has more layers than that.

 

[PainKiller07]

Reply to this thread once the revision is finished. Also Chen Qi has more layers than that.

I've applied changes to the profiles (at least that of Satan). We shall continue

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

In this key, it should be unknown what active ability Chen Qi starts with but to be consistent in matches, as soon as he goes from normal to battle mode, he should manifest a cultivator's negative effects:

• Suppress everything within the area (paralysis + powernull)
• Mind & soul manipulation (They have it but it is unlikely he will turn it on)
• Manipulate his internal energy to absorb attacks (and grow stronger from them)
• Finally, manifest his Dao which is conceptual manipulation (type 1) and conceptually mindhaxes the opponent into believing his Dao and it also causes reality warping effects in the area

A cultivator has other stuff, for example Death Manipulation simply by their strong emotions such as rage which would instantly kill anything within the area but this isn't in character for Chen Qi. There are other abilities he can turn on which would be in character, such as deconstruction aura which at his level removes all particles, space & time to create a vacuum. There is also the fact that he 2 sets of invulnerability.

Anyways, the abilities listed are passives he has to turn on, as for active abilities, since Satan doesn't resist info analysis, Chen Qi's info analysis would give him an idea as to what ability to use, any of which are layered and some of which Satan does not resist. He will inadvertently cause the area to be under his subjective reality after releasing his dust world (which Satan doesn't resist).

Lastly, he has shapeshifting and adaptation, if he sees it and understands it, he can just transform into it. Whether it is a weapon or energy, for example the latter, they can transform into devilish energy which has the effects of Corruption, Corrosion Inducement, Power Nullification, Madness Manipulation, Necromancy & Disease Manipulation.

 

[PainKiller07]

I'll make this as simple as possible (am not exactly free rn)

First, those are sure prominent moves but they won't matter if Chenqi doesnt resist Satan's passive Nullification and Erasure on an material/mental/emotional/spiritual/essential/conceptual (type 1)/historical/causal level, which is 5-7 layers at the minimum amount. These come from dispel bounds, Satan also possess a junk of other passives, conceptual mind control, madness, paralysis and transmutation (to sand) are notable among those I can think top off my head.

And from what I'm seeing on Cultivation page Chenqi hardly resist anything.

• Suppress everything within the area (paralysis + powernull)
• Mind & soul manipulation (They have it but it is unlikely he will turn it on)
• Manipulate his internal energy to absorb attacks (and grow stronger from them)
• Finally, manifest his Dao which is conceptual manipulation (type 1) and conceptually mindhaxes the opponent into believing his Dao and it also causes reality warping effects in the area

• Resisted on multiple levels, he basically resists his passives due to fighting enemies who have the exact same physiology
• Conceptual absorption is also layeredly resisted
• As I've explained, conceptual mind hax is resisted both conventional and unconventional. RW is specifically nulled by dispel bounds which is 5-7 layers

There are other abilities he can turn on which would be in character, such as deconstruction aura which at his level removes all particles, space & time to create a vacuum. There is also the fact that he 2 sets of invulnerability.

Deconstruct is resisted. Angels/demons are by default transcendent to spacetime/fate/causality

Anyways, the abilities listed are passives he has to turn on, as for active abilities, since Satan doesn't resist info analysis, Chen Qi's info analysis would give him an idea as to what ability to use, any of which are layered and some of which Satan does not resist. He will inadvertently cause the area to be

How does his info analysis work I may ask. Depending on the mechanic satan might resist it. Also, has this hax worked on a conceptual being residing on another plane of existence?

Before you start wondering where does all this resistances come from. Well, Satan basically resists this blog on several layers.

He will inadvertently cause the area to be under his subjective reality after releasing his dust world (which Satan doesn't resist).

Satan can null/resist reality warpings so not really sure if it would work. On top of that, Satan is a large size type 6 being which I suppose would require Chenqi subjective world has to be as big as the solar system to begulf Satan entirely

Lastly, he has shapeshifting and adaptation, if he sees it and understands it, he can just transform into it. Whether it is a weapon or energy, for example the latter, they can transform into devilish energy which has the effects of Corruption, Corrosion Inducement, Power Nullification, Madness Manipulation, Necromancy & Disease Manipulation.

Those effects are pretty much all resisted. As for RE, if it isnt much layered than satan can potentially null through dispel bounds.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

First, those are sure prominent moves but they won't matter if Chenqi doesnt resist Satan's passive Nullification and Erasure on an material/mental/emotional/spiritual/essential/conceptual (type 1)/historical/causal level, which is 5-7 layers at the minimum amount. These come from dispel bounds, Satan also possess a junk of other passives, conceptual mind control, madness, paralysis and transmutation (to sand) are notable among those I can think top off my head.

And from what I'm seeing on Cultivation page Chenqi hardly resist anything.

Chen Qi resists CM (type 1) which entirely depends on the Dao they comprehend and the effects of those Daos can be conceptual EE, concept removal, conceptual illusion, conceptual powernull, conceptual sealing, my personal favourite being Gu Chensha's Mortal Life Mending which has a technique that has conceptual absorbtion, attack negation as well writing a new truth. They just generally share reality warping and conceptual mindhax. We see later on the path Chen Qi chose for himself, he became an entity which contains and embodies stories. Which would be his Dao.

All the other abilities you've listed are already resisted, Chen Qi resists and negates every ability on his first key page BTW. As for CM (Type 1) layers, it is at-least 21 considering they can grasp it anywhere between the first transformation or the 15th, but I'd say the 15th transformation for a safe bet.

• Resisted on multiple levels, he basically resists his passives due to fighting enemies who have the exact same physiology
• Conceptual absorption is also layeredly resisted
• As I've explained, conceptual mind hax is resisted both conventional and unconventional. RW is specifically nulled by dispel bounds which is 5-7 layers

• It is something the grasp at the 12th transformation. This match is 36th transformation Chen Qi. If he resists that many layers then it is fine.
• If it 5-7 layers, Chen Qi would be higher since absorption is before 36th transformation and well, I am repeating myself but this is 36th transformation Chen Qi
• Chinaman more layers XD (21 layers like I said above)

Also, I have said already said they can already absorb hax, remove it, erase it, modify it and null it. Or just a forcefield or their destructive aura to negate it. Their abilities aren't strangers to being targeted, so I don't see Dispel Bounds working on more potent hax. If anything, all the abilities Chen Qi resists and is more layered hitting him would just feed him if he wants or he could just null it, erase, send it back or just change it (he has power modification).

Deconstruct is resisted. Angels/demons are by default transcendent to spacetime/fate/causality

They would need to have r>f transcendence though. Chen Qi is above and outside cause and effect, good and evil and without fate but he would be destroyed by Gu Chensha if they were in the same realm by this. My point being, even if it resisted, their resistance would be negated by more layers. Deconstruction being a technique by 1st transformation cultivators who at a higher transformation improved it's potency.

How does his info analysis work I may ask. Depending on the mechanic satan might resist it. Also, has this hax worked on a conceptual being residing on another plane of existence?

Before you start wondering where does all this resistances come from. Well, Satan basically resists this blog on several layers.

If Satan's senses are high, he would feel naked in-front of Chen Qi. If his senses are higher, he would feel himself getting scanned. In real time, it would just be Chen Qi glancing at him and already knowing what he needs to know about Satan. Cultivators use their spiritual sense to basically scan their surroundings. As an effect of this, they can also lock onto souls, so it wouldn't matter if Satan tries to dodge anything. But it is unnecessary though, since he can see Satan's body and soul (of-course I am assuming he has a soul).

I apologize, I only looked at his profile and missed the blog.

Satan can null/resist reality warpings so not really sure if it would work. On top of that, Satan is a large size type 6 being which I suppose would require Chenqi subjective world has to be as big as the solar system to begulf Satan entirely

A dust world is a continent with a night sky. It also has a sun and a moon which is implied to be made from their essence. Extremely weaker 30th transformation can have dozens of these. There is also the fact that 35th transformation cultivators can with a thought expand these into a universe. Hence the possibly 3-A tier. Since we are using his 3-A version, a single dust world can easily hold Satan who is large size type 6 (Stellar)

Those effects are pretty much all resisted. As for RE, if it isnt much layered than satan can potentially null through dispel bounds.

Shapeshifting and adaptation is a 21st transformation ability, which would be nulled by a 22nd transformation cultivator. This match is 36th transformation Chen Qi.

 

[PainKiller07]

Mamamia... Oh well good thing is we don't have to lengthen this match.
I'll just make a few things clear

The layers stuff, it says that their resistances would be stronger after each step indeed. Does it also scale to their layers of hax though?

Each of Satan's aspect of existence is protected by DB which can only be crushed by brute force (hence why unconventional resistance to all hax that affects him). Chen qi has the same AP as satan so at best it would buy some time for Satan, though if Chenqi has that much layered resistances, then satan wouldn't be able to do a thing even with time.

If Satan's senses are high, he would feel naked in-front of Chen Qi. If his senses are higher, he would feel himself getting scanned. In real time, it would just be Chen Qi glancing at him and already knowing what he needs to know about Satan. Cultivators use their spiritual sense to basically scan their surroundings. As an effect of this, they can also lock onto souls, so it wouldn't matter if Satan tries to dodge anything. But it is unnecessary though, since he can see Satan's body and soul (of-course I am assuming he has a soul).

Souls in Bastard!! are type 1 concepts. Magic very mechanic is to perform special phenomenon through the power of souls so magic is conceptual in itself. Just to let you know

dust world is a continent with a night sky. It also has a sun and a moon which is implied to be made from their essence. Extremely weaker 30th transformation can have dozens of these. There is also the fact that 35th transformation cultivators can with a thought expand these into a universe. Hence the possibly 3-A tier. Since we are using his 3-A version, a single dust world can easily hold Satan who is large size type 6 (Stellar)

If he can expand his domain to 3A then fair, there's no way for satan to hide. What are the effects of this SR?

Shapeshifting and adaptation is a 21st transformation ability, which would be nulled by a 22nd transformation cultivator. This match is 36th transformation Chen Qi.

Satan has RE to the level of boosting his HGR to a higher level, as well as negation. If 21st transformation's adaptation is also around this potency then well.

They would need to have r>f transcendence though. Chen Qi is above and outside cause and effect, good and evil and without fate but he would be destroyed by Gu Chensha if they were in the same realm by this. My point being, even if it resisted, their resistance would be negated by more layers. Deconstruction being a technique by 1st transformation cultivators who at a higher transformation improved it's potency.

All Angels/Demons are layered/enhanced acausal type 4 (they are transcendent to the systems that govern baseline acausal 4, technically). Acausal is unconventional resistance basically so layers of fate/causality hax won't really matter unless shown to work on acausals of the same level.

The only wincon left for Satan here in this match, is to flick Chen Qi out of cause and effect, which negs astral beings' physiology that is a higher degree of acau 4.

On final note, each of satan's existential aspect resides on a separate plane of existence, you would need to put all his bodies down at the same time. Though to chinamen who deal with dimensions/spaces all the time it wouldn't be any trouble I think, just say

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Mamamia... Oh well good thing is we don't have to lengthen this match.
I'll just make a few things clear

The layers stuff, it says that their resistances would be stronger after each step indeed. Does it also scale to their layers of hax though?

Each of Satan's aspect of existence is protected by DB which can only be crushed by brute force (hence why unconventional resistance to all hax that affects him). Chen qi has the same AP as satan so at best it would buy some time for Satan, though if Chenqi has that much layered resistances, then satan wouldn't be able to do a thing even with time.

Yes since they need to affect cultivators of their own level while higher cultivators are just out of bounds. Of-course this doesn't apply to Gu Chensha who in his first key is in the same cultivation realm as Chen Qi but his AP and hax is comparable to a higher cultivation realm.

I still stand by my previous first statement of DB not being relevant for this match. In addition to the post I linked, 20th transformation are immune to all attacks unless it is an attack that damages their vitality but they would still be victims to any hax of higher cultivators. Even if DB was a law that set the rules for only X being able to damage it, it wouldn't be no different than 19th transformation law body. Even if it was invulnerability (which Chen Qi already has), it would be bypassed.

Souls in Bastard!! are type 1 concepts. Magic very mechanic is to perform special phenomenon through the power of souls so magic is conceptual in itself. Just to let you know

Thanks for the info.

If he can expand his domain to 3A then fair, there's no way for satan to hide. What are the effects of this SR?

He inherits the basic ability of just turning Satan and the surrounding into his own, bringing it under his control, capable of changing it with a thought.

Also, I say 'dust world' but Chen Qi in his second key doesn't have a normal world like ordinary cultivators. He has novel worlds, stories he has created and controls. It is unknown if he has a normal dust world in his first key or if he substituted them for stories, although both are match ending for Satan.

If it is a dust world, it is fatal. If it is a novel world, it is incap. Chen Qi doesn't write stories with protagonist that have horrible endings, so Satan will just be trapped in his story but at-least with a good life.

Satan has RE to the level of boosting his HGR to a higher level, as well as negation. If 21st transformation's adaptation is also around this potency then well.

21st transformation don't have HGR. I was just pointing out the large gap between 21st transformation and 36th transformation.

All Angels/Demons are layered/enhanced acausal type 4 (they are transcendent to the systems that govern baseline acausal 4, technically). Acausal is unconventional resistance basically so layers of fate/causality hax won't really matter unless shown to work on acausals of the same level.

The only wincon left for Satan here in this match, is to flick Chen Qi out of cause and effect, which negs astral beings' physiology that is a higher degree of acau 4.

On final note, each of satan's existential aspect resides on a separate plane of existence, you would need to put all his bodies down at the same time. Though to chinamen who deal with dimensions/spaces all the time it wouldn't be any trouble I think, just say

New world cultivators are Acausal type 4. It wouldn't stop the aura from a higher cultivator and it is an ability by 1st transformation cultivators and this match is 36th transformation Chen Qi.

It seems Chen Qi's acausal is higher but I will wait for your reply. Technically he is already outside cause and effect and cultivates to go even deeper, so I am not sure if that ability of Satan helps him cultivate or yeets him lol.

He has immortality type 9 negation. He can also pull a cultivator hiding in another dimension out but the way that works is like facing 2 people but you can only see one because the other is in another dimension. Lastly, under Enhanced Senses & Extrasensory Perception you will find that their eyes can pierce through dimensions as well as be able to see that the Satan right in-front of him is connected to other things.

 

[PainKiller07]

I still stand by my previous first statement of DB not being relevant for this match. In addition to the post I linked, 20th transformation are immune to all attacks unless it is an attack that damages their vitality but they would still be victims to any hax of higher cultivators. Even if DB was a law that set the rules for only X being able to damage it, it wouldn't be no different than 19th transformation law body. Even if it was invulnerability (which Chen Qi already has), it would be bypassed.

One thing that sticks to my concerns, is that according to Cultivation page, cultivators only have access to Chaos/CM1 at the 29th transformation, not 1st or 15th so I'm asking if that would affect anything

He has immortality type 9 negation

Satan has Immo 9 negation resistance due to resisting the effects of dispel bounds. That has been accepted in one of the threads tho I forgot to put it on profiles. Ok then.

It seems Chen Qi's acausal is higher but I will wait for your reply. Technically he is already outside cause and effect and cultivates to go even deeper, so I am not sure if that ability of Satan helps him cultivate or yeets him lol.

You'll have to prove that deeper here means also in terms of Acausality, rising your very existence is nowhere near to qualify higher degree of Acau. Also, the ability to banish from causality is passive

If it is a dust world, it is fatal. If it is a novel world, it is incap. Chen Qi doesn't write stories with protagonist that have horrible endings, so Satan will just be trapped in his story but at-least with a good life.

Lol I'm wondering whether Chenqi would still give Satan a good ending if he knows the demon king being the source of calamities and evil things alike.
Anyway, if Satan can't put down Chenqi immediately using the passive mentioned when the fight starts then he is done for.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

One thing that sticks to my concerns, is that according to Cultivation page, cultivators only have access to Chaos/CM1 at the 29th transformation, not 1st or 15th so I'm asking if that would affect anything

Primordial Chaos is only touched and manipulated by cultivators at that level. I don't understand your concern regarding this, since it it a separate CM (type 1) and it is of a higher more potent degree, being the origin and integration of everything. Cultivators can have it early but it would just be an imitation of Primordial Chaos.

As for why they gain it so late, the birth of a world is related to primordial chaos, at the 29th transformation they try to gain enlightenment regarding primal chaos. Fusing with primal chaos, tempering oneself with chaos, all to understand primal-chaos, which lays the foundation for the 30th transformation, where one can create their own world (dust world).

You'll have to prove that deeper here means also in terms of Acausality, rising your very existence is nowhere near to qualify higher degree of Acau. Also, the ability to banish from causality is passive

Raising your existence does qualify for a higher degree of Acausal though. They literally cultivated their way to Acausality (type 5) as 10th deathless. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your point here?

Lol I'm wondering whether Chenqi would still give Satan a good ending if he knows the demon king being the source of calamities and evil things alike.
Anyway, if Satan can't put down Chenqi immediately using the passive mentioned when the fight starts then he is done for.

The verse has been stated to have infinite types of energy and it also has different power systems, so non-cultivators exist. Even still, it is filled with psychopathic narcissists like most cultivation novels. I don't think Chen Qi would react much to Satan's nature. Either he gives him a bad ending or converts him, there is no scenario he loses his cool just because someone is evil.

 

[PainKiller07]

All fair then, satan lost convincedly. Chenqi shall take the 1st spot

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

All fair then, satan lost convincedly. Chenqi shall take the 1st spot

I'll allow 24 hrs, maybe there is something of Satan you missed.

 

[PainKiller07]

I'll allow 24 hrs, maybe there is something of Satan you missed.

My guy, I've debated for Bastard!! enough to safely declare that even if I have been missing something, they'd just be minor elements that won't affect the result.

Rarely can a 3D character compete with satan and the gangs. That's why if there is a verse being too much for them to handle, I'd know it from a first glance.

Ty for your sportsmanship anyway

 

[Robo432343]

The images link to their profiles.

---

Speed Equalized.
SBA.

bro i think this needs a rematch
bastard!! has 5-6 hax layers accepted while dragon talisman hasn't
satan probably wins for now coz dragon talisman layers haven't been evaluated

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@PainKiller07

 

[Robo432343]

bro im going to vote satan fra

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[noninho]

layeredly resisted

Not that I pay much attention to Bastard or Dragon Talisman, as I haven't read both yet

But i haven't seen both verses on the Hax Layer Evaluation Thread...just Bastard.

Therefore I vote Satan FRA

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Unqver]

Although, I have a question. The world has time and space, shouldn't the 36 changes in Dao Realm be low-2-c

Spoiler: world

The Thirty Changes in Dao Realm, also known as "Opening up the Cave" or "Creating the World," fundamentally means creating a stable world amidst the turbulent flow of time and space.
Note that it is the world, not space.
Space is lifeless and lacks the ability to reverse time, lacking the vitality of creation.
Only the independent time and space that can give rise to all things and endow spirituality is the "world".
Only by opening up the world can one be called a true god—— Chapter 441

道境三十变，叫做“开辟洞天”，又叫做“缔造世界”，其根本就是在时空乱流之中缔造一个稳定的世界。

注意是世界，不是空间。

空间是没有生机的，也没有逆转时间的能力，缺乏造物之生气。

唯独是可以衍生万物，赋予灵性的独立时空，才是“世界”。

能够开辟出世界来，才能够称呼为真正的神。——441章

 

[Robo432343]

Although, I have a question. The world has time and space, shouldn't the 36 changes in Dao Realm be low-2-c

Spoiler: world

The Thirty Changes in Dao Realm, also known as "Opening up the Cave" or "Creating the World," fundamentally means creating a stable world amidst the turbulent flow of time and space.
Note that it is the world, not space.
Space is lifeless and lacks the ability to reverse time, lacking the vitality of creation.
Only the independent time and space that can give rise to all things and endow spirituality is the "world".
Only by opening up the world can one be called a true god—— Chapter 441

道境三十变，叫做“开辟洞天”，又叫做“缔造世界”，其根本就是在时空乱流之中缔造一个稳定的世界。

注意是世界，不是空间。

空间是没有生机的，也没有逆转时间的能力，缺乏造物之生气。

唯独是可以衍生万物，赋予灵性的独立时空，才是“世界”。

能够开辟出世界来，才能够称呼为真正的神。——441章

go make a questions and answers thread for this, not here

 

[Robo432343]

bump