Batman (Bruce Wayne) VS Kira (Light Yagami)

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Without explanation, criminals are dying around all the world and Batman takes the case. Who will unmask the other first? Batman will put Light in prison or Kira will kill Bruce?

Round 1: Batman VS Pre-Timeskip Kira

Round 2: Batman VS Post-Timeskip Kira (This one has L's influence and privileges)

EDIT: Answer with arguments, please.

 

[Hyperception]

Batman both rounds

 

[Hiei312]

from the information we have on both characters Kira has a colossal advantage on Batman, he can kill from anywhere in the world with a totally ridiculous method that no one in batman's world would probably ever think of. meanwhile Batman is more or less foillowing real world logic on whatever he does...which Light will be familiar with.

Kira might also just end up killing Bruce Wayne anyways even without finding out he's Batman at some point. Bruce is a very important figure in Gotham and constantly makes speeches about things. if he says one thing too much that Light disagrees with he may end up dying randomly.

Lastly "L" was far, far more "hidden" than batman. he didn't even have a face or a voice. Batman just uses a mask.


from the things we know i think Kira would win both rounds with minor difficulty. However there's no real way to objectively quantify intelligence so i'll just say this is inconclusive

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

@Hiei312 Thanks for your input. Yes, a battle of intelligence would be inconclusive, but I was having in mind a debate about the way they have shown their abilities using their available resources and if that would be enough to catch another. Basically what you did.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Batman both rounds

Because he is Batman?

 

[KosakiChawn]

If we are going to put some comic book logic into Kira (Yagami Light).

(You know, that logic that some characters are too dumb enough to know who Batman is. I mean seriously, a vigilante with an insane amount of "very-likely to be very expensive" resources that only appeared when Bruce Wayne returned to Gotham is very unlikely to be Bruce Wayne).

Of course, Batman wins.


But if we're not gonna "downgrade" Light's intellect, then he would surely win.

It's not because Light is smarter than Bruce Wayne. It's because Kira just somehow had a little "free time" and Bruce Wayne is too exposed, unlike L.

 

[Phantasys]

Batman has the Mobius chair right now so...yeah curbstomp. But otherwise, he'd still win as his Bruce Wayne persona is so happy-go-lucky nobody even bothered to suspect him as Batman. He's also hardly the only rich guy in Gotham, there are a crapton of millionaires each with the resources to be Batman.

So...strange asian kid shows up in town with outstanding academic records when a japanese origin serial killer just starting to operate in Gotham. Batman's going to be knocking the ever loving stuffing out of Light and then incinerating that notebook.

 

[Hiei312]

how would he even know Kira is japanese, or a student, or anything? why would Light even be in Gotham? or are we allowing Batman to have knowledge of the information L managed to uncover? at that point it's not really Batman winning anymore...it's L who did most of the work.


Nothing we've seen suggests Batman would even be able to realize what's going on, much less figure out the killer. L was infinitely more hidden than Batman has ever been in any of his stories, and showed far more deductive skill to be able to track down Light to a general location. he also had to use ruthless methods to do so (like using criminals as bait), which bruce would never do.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

I´ve never said he arrived Gotham. Kira kills people around the world from Japan. But thanks for your input

 

[Wutsumattayu]

In both scenarios Batman would eventually need to go to Japan. Since Light doesn't have the Shinigami eyes Batman would very easily fit the patterns together and find Ls work as a basis to work off from. From there it wouldn't be even a week before Batman took Light down easy either scenario.

Batman has vastly superior resources, he has the added bonus of L doing all of the hard work for him already(even if he didn't he could use any of his regular acquaintances to figure out the Death Note and pinpoint this ones use because Zatana and Dr. Fate are easily on that level) and even without L's work Bruce actually has a much higher pedigree as a detective.(He has solved literally thousands of cases involving various degrees of super powered entities and secret organizations and has dealt with plenty of magic based cases) This is incredibly one sided.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

L's work was erased immediately after his death by Watari, so Batman won't have any access to that. Anyway, certainly he has experience with paranormal cases. Batman has than on favor.

Finally, at a given point, I was expecting Bruce to travel to Japan, but recently I realized that is not clear how Bruce would figure out why he should travel to there.

This is a nice entry for Batman, Thanks @Wutsumattayu

 

[Hiei312]

its literally impossible to even prove Kira's existence without resorting to some really shady methods that Batman would simply never do.


i don't think he'd ever figure out what L managed to personally. as i said, in the end, intelligence is not objectively quantifiable, but frankly, from what i've read of Batman comics, i don't think he has ever displayed the level of deductive thinking L did in death note, albeit by numbers he does indeed have a "higher pedigree" (but that's merely due to the nature of their franchises)

he shouldn't be allowed to use influence from other high profile characters also (like zatana or Fate). at that point it's no longer just Batman vs Kira is it?

in the end i mantain what i said that this should be inconclusive. i think Kira would "win" based on what i've seen and comparing L and Batman as detectives, but its not decisive enough

 

[Wutsumattayu]

Detectives use their resources. Light uses his, Batman can use his. Even if we rule out his high profile helpers like Dr. Fate and Zatana, Jason Blood, Detective Chimp, the Question, and even if we rule out help from the bat family(in this case Oracle would be the only one who would noticibly help) Bruce still has a vast skillset that does include recovering deleted data files. (I forgot about Watari helping, it's been a long time since I read DeathNote sorry)

Also detective work is uncovering clues and drawing conclusions from those clues. Using other peoples work or outside help is fair game unless we want to rule that out for both side. (this is an unfair playing ground just because of Batmans vast resources and extensive list of allies while Light had that girl who had a crush on him and a few police officers pre time skip and a police department post time skip)

Anyway Batman would just figure out the pattern of how criminals were dying(primarily by heart attack or through strange circumstances, no one without a known alias dies) and trace it to Japan. Batman would have no reason to go to Japan without enough ways to keep suspicion off from him thanks to realizing a supernatural method of attack(thanks to knowledge of magic and methods of death with given evidence) so there wouldn't be anything to tip Light off to his presence(whether that means not coming as Bruce or not coming as Batman and creating cover for either one back in Gotham) Light wouldn't have anything to go on initially about Batman or even know he's on the case until after Batman starts showing himself either. This gives a huge advantage to Bruce again since he can narrow the field first using rather simple methods(beginning area and frequency of incidents, time of day incidents usually occur, etc) L still worked on these cases so his work would still be possile to dig up though very difficult.

Honestly Light just got way too cocky several times post time skip which caused several slip ups. Batman has a long history of profiling and then using psychological profiles to have smarter or craftier tacticians defeat themselves. It's an interesting match up but in order to actually win light would need to either have vastly superior resources to what he had or have a stabler psyche, either one would allow him enough of an edge to at least tie.

 

[Hiei312]

the main problem is this; how is Batman gonna trace Kira?

What L did was an extremely off the wall prediction based on very thin "evidence" even he himself had little confidence in (he said his original plan was to keep airing that tape on separate regions until Kira killed Lind L Taylor. it just so happened his initial guess was right)

that's simply not the way batman operates, He doesn't act on thin evidence and he certainly is totally beyond using other people as bait to lure someone. Kira is hidden by such absurd "killing" methods that i simply can't see Batman ever being able to even 100% prove his existence to the world like L did. mostly because of his morals.

and then there's the fact while L initially didn't even have a voice or a face, Batman just uses a mask. Batman is a well known crime fighter througout the world. if he and Light exist in the same universe, it's only natural to assume Light would have known of Batman even before acquiring the death note. depending on how Light feels about batman's methods (he might interpret that someone choosing to leave criminals alive when fully able to eliminate them makes you a problem for his ideal world too) , he might opt to actively start seeking him out and kill him. at which point , unless we're gonna give Light some form of comic book PIS, i find it very hard to believe he wouldn't be able to easily figure out it's Bruce Wayne..he already knows it's someone in Gotham to begin with

Light is essentially a mysterious force of nature striking heaven's justice at the start of this "fight" to Batman, while Batman is..well... Batman. everyone knows Batman. that's already a colossal disadvantage right from the get go. he doesn't even know his opponent trully exists. he first has to prove his existence.

But ultimately as i said, "fights" like these aren't really properly quantifiable like goku vs superman or something. this is so completely dependant on the writting that trying to foresee an outcome without a complete story arc around it is just not possible.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Well... I will do a small stage direction

This still is a VS Battle, so any other characters assistance is not allowed. Besides, in character, Light never showed any form of comic book PIS like Batman's enemies, so it is not a factor to be considered.

 

[Wutsumattayu]

Thanks for the clarification TWS. In this matchup pre time skip is L dead yet? Or would Batman still need to do some high level hacking to dig up any already existing leads? Are we using a universe where L didn't investigate Kira in the first place? Would uncovering someone elses initial work count as character insistence even if it would be the result of one character stealing the other characters research?

Assuming L investigated my argument still stands, without L's reference point to start and no character assistance I would have to agree with Hiei312 that Bruce just wouldn't use the necessary methods to catch up to L's research which would be a big enough roadblock where Light could find out Batman is on the case, dig up what is known about Batman(he operates primarily in gotham, uses very high end materials, most of what's known about him is via speculation and urban myth but has occasionally been seen working with the justice league as a support field team member, doesn't use guns, rarely kills[batman has caused accidents that resulted in criminal death on a handful of occasions]) and narrow down his possible identities.

Also saying Batmans villains always show PIS is definitely not giving credit to Gothams psychopaths or Rha's Al Ghul. It also underplays the role of the next level mind games Bruce plays in a lot of his sotries(sometimes it is just PIS and the author skips over all of the fun stuff)

with L's research on the board both pre and post time skip I give it 7/10 Bats, without I give it 7/10 and 8/10 respectively to Kira

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

I'm not saying Batman enemies always show PIS, I said Kira won't show the PIS showed in some Batman comic books.

Second, Pre-Timeskip Kira hasn't been confronted by L, because that would be more like Kira VS Batman and L; and after beating L, we have Post-Timeskip Kira, since he already has L's influence, so I can't considering his research in disposal to Bruce.

Now, Post-Timeskip Kira took L's name, so if Bruce is going to hack his research, it would be thinking on hacking an alive L. If this is something that an "in character" Batman would do, I think it is OK. Anyway, I'm not sure how Batman will manage to find the private database of someone like L, but if there is a reason that makes you think he can, I want to hear it.

At this point, I'm more interested in the Round 2.

P.S. I can't stop thanking both of you (@Hiei312 and @Wutsumattayu) for your input. This battle was haunting my mind while ago.

 

[Wutsumattayu]

After my last comment I actually went out and found other arguments on the same subject and it has changed my mind on what Bruce can do even without L's input. I haven't had good sleep lately due to picking up a lot of extra shifts at work last second this week so sorry if I make any stange leaps.

Anyhow as for the Post Time Skip yes Bruce would attempt to hack into L's database. Before Barabara Gordon became the Oracle he actually had to do a lot of low-medium level hacking to uncover evidence from tech savvy criminals or corrupt business and political figures. After he started expanding to help the Justice League he had to really pick up his game in that department due to dealing with bad guys like Lex and the occasional Alien Invasion fleet(in the new 52 I think they changed that to cyborg) When it comes to tracking down unknown individuals private linked in databases he has been shown to be incredibly resourceful in finding the correct databases to pull through never explained detective stuff. if he did track down L's research it wouldn't be long before noticed a large number of deleted files which would take a few hours tops to dig up, restore, and copy. Also without outside character help Light wouldn't have anyone to work as a fake Kira for him which gets rid of his primary way of shaking suspicion. Post time skip Light definitely has matured and makes less stupid moves impulsively but he still has that paranoia leading to a psychotic break problem that lead to him getting caught by what's his name in the post time skip era anyway.

 

[Wutsumattayu]

I should add that Light winning is not outside the realm of possibility, just unlikely from what I can piece together.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Yeah, it seems Round 2 will be harder to evaluate than 1, against all my predictions.

 

[Hiei312]

wait, are we allowing "L's research" to be a thing at all in this fight? i'm still of the opinion that if Batman wins by "uncovering L's research" it's really mostly just L beating Kira >_> i was thinking L's work in general would be totally erased from ever having happened in this fight.


if that's the case then yeah batman might have the edge on round 2.

however i might also add that post time skip light is basically a madman. he wouldn't be opposed to just killing every notable person in gotham to get to Batman (esp if he sees Batman's famous heroic figure as an insult to the image of Kira that he created) . at which point the match pretty much becomes impossible for Batman to win.


ultimately i mantain my opinion that this is inconclusive due to being too dependant on writting and the events surounding whichever story they'd share.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

I thought allowing L's research wouldn't be so out of place, being that Post-Timeskip Kira, who has L's influence, would mean there was a research (now erased).

After all, I dare to say we already agree that is more porbable to Batman losing this if he can't use L's research

 

[Wutsumattayu]

I'm beginning to agree with you a lot more on this Hiei, but if I had to choose who I thought would edge out the other no matter how slim, like if I just had to pick one It would be Batman. Also looking back on pre time skip and reading arguments on other sites L was able to deduce Light was using the Police database and couldn't pin anything on Light because to him magic was impossible. that isn't the case for Bats. he likely could have put together most of the evidence L did with the same initial evidence then with the added knowledge of magic Bruce could manage to do almost all the work he needs before Light even starts looking into Billionaires with tragic pasts in Gotham. In the DC universe Rha's, Bane, and tim Drake are the only characters to piece Batman's identity together and Bane was the only one to do that with only that information. It took him years.(Before venom ruined his memory Bane was on par with Batman in terms of tactics and deductive reasoning skills) I should mention being a master level detective and a super genius is not horribly uncommon. Gordon, the Question, Detective Chimp, and dozens of others were stumped trying to deduce this. That being said i'd say Light is closer to Tim Drakes level of detective skill. It is a really close call but because of this I just think Bruce would win more often than lose if you ran this 1000+ times but I could be wrong completely I admit.

Bruce does have some epic level magic shielding in the Batcave to keep spells from reaching him there but it's not infallible. Likewise I do agree post time skip Kira could just go mad and decide to kill as many gothamites as he can think of but I imagine he would run out of paper before he got them all. How often does Ryuk resupply him with Deathnote paper?

I've also heard a lot of speculation that Bruce Waynes true identity is Batman and so if Light wrote Bruce Wayne it wouldn't work but that seems unlikely. Post time skip if Light doesn't have a psychotic break and just write gothmite names down randomly Bruce might take it. Kira might also find a convenient clue that gives him Bruces identity.

We can call it a tie with my personal leaning in favor of Bats(which is kinda pointless add in)

 

[Hiei312]

L did figure out his tie to the police, the main problem remains that the entirety of L's research and conclusions in death note all stemmed from that initial hunch he had where he used Lind L Taylor as bait to prove Kira's existence and track him to japan.

that's the biggest issue Batman has (pre time skip at least). i just don't see a way to write Batman being able to take that initial step without making him out of character.


but yeah a tie would be best. (or inconclusive, as i said)

 

[Xiaome]

An interesting fact if we are talking about something that has to do with computers. In the DC universe what they do is push the delete button and confirm. That doesn't mean that it's deleted entirely.

An interesting note is that when somebody that works with computer say they destroyed the information, not deleted, but destroyed it means that it would be impossible to get that information back. What "destroy" implies is the disk that you stored the information on is demagnetized which means it's and ordinary metal disc that is just spinning, basically it's worthless. This is a common thing to do with hard disks

The difference would be like shredding a paper into pieces or burning it into ash.

 

[-BANLK-]

Batman is much much more intelligent than Kira thats a given (being able to create all those gadgets and futuristic technology.) but lets face it bats is still bound by comic book stupidity. Even an average guy with some brains can figure out batman is bruce wayne and I am sure Light will realize it (If he is not being an idiot.) then all it takes is one google image search and batman is done for.....

 

[Xiaome]

Batman is much much more intelligent than Kira thats a given (being able to create all those gadgets and futuristic technology.) but lets face it bats is still bound by comic book stupidity. Even an average guy with some brains can figure out batman is bruce wayne and I am sure Light will realize it (If he is not being an idiot.) then all it takes is one google image search and batman is done for.....

I'm not it's the fact that he is more intelligent or the fact that he has more resources. You must remember he has his company with intelligent people in it that he can use. I can say he knows more scientifically, in other areas I'm not sure though.

 

[PaChi2]

Kira will know who Batman is long before Bruce guesses who is killing everyone, his secret identity is not that well hidden, you see, if Light ever felt threatened he could resort to making a list of the Gotham citizens capable of affording Batman's tech and kill every single one of them thanks to them being well-known (and that would be very in character for him, even more in his post-L self).

 

[HalfAsianFan]

I'm going with Light on this one both rounds since Watari deleted/destroyed all of L's data.

Kira might not know that he's being investigated by Batman until Batman shows himself in some way, which could be a problem, but I find it likely that Kira will find Batman's way of not killing criminals a blight immoral, and start investigating him quite early on. I very much think that Light will be able to find Batman's identity since he starts off with the knowledge that

1: Batman lives in Gotham.

2: Batman is incredibly wealthy, likely a millionaire.

This alone already narrows it down to at most a hundred, maybe 200 people (I'm unfamiliar with Batman and Gotham so I don't know how wealthy the people there tend to be) and gives him a location. In the event that Bruce figures out where Kira is via learning about L's Lind L. Tailor test (which will likely be reasonably be well known by then since it was such an abnormal and news-worthy event), he'll likely travel to Japan and contine operations there. After that, Light will notice Batman's activity in Gotham stopped. He'll also see that in the same time period a certain number of Gotham's millionaires had left the country, which should narrow it down to 4 or 5 people at most, so Bruce travelling to Japan might even hinder him.

If even that fails Light could resort to PaChi2's method as well, so I can't really see this going detective B's way when Kira starts off as just a being seemingly with no meaningful name, no face, no location or even physical manifestation.

Also, this is a great idea for a thread Wandering Shepherd, I'm loving the development in arguments.

 

[HalfAsianFan]

Bump.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Personally, Batman is way smarter, but on that game, Light takes this. I mean, Light's "murders" look more like accidents than anything, while both Bruce and Batman are way, way overexposed. If Batman actually lived in Japan, he could win this, but he is on Gotham, so...

Batman may be able to get some clues and maybe start investigating, once he starts contacting the occult or metahumans, but until then, Light would've most likely figured out his true ego, and it is a game over for Batsy.

 

[DeathNoteJoker]

What if the premise was that Yagami Raito was born and raised in Gotham? I don't expect a clear cut answer. Bats vs Kira has just too many unknown factors. I do like conversing the different outcomes, though.

Okay, so one option for this Gotham Kira is that Raito is Commisioner Gordon's son since Jim Gordon is a lot like Yagami Soichiro. Also, we will use only a version of Batman without the influence of Superman, JLA, or any hero/villain that is not specific to the Batman story (eg. Nightwing, Robin, Joker, etc. are allowed).

I don't know much about Batman outside Dark Knight Trilogy Batman and a couple other recent Batmans. So I'd prefer Dark Knight Trilogy Batman, but commentor's discretion.

Next, I just want to hear your thoughts. What do you think?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Snip

I'm not sure about the outcome of this battle


But my god


You have like the perfect name for this fight xD

 

[FanCanyon]

Batman is too much for this edgy high school boy. Batman is not some police detective like Kira. He is a vigilante he can torture to Kira both mentaly and physicaly or he can even abduct him.

Also he has access to the satelites and many hax devices that can track Kira's actions.

Its a piece of cake for Bruce.

 

[Ionliosite]

Holy necro, Batman!