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Batman and Superman vs Linx and Kiir

I'll go into more depth later, but it seems as if Linx and Kiir resists most of Batman's and Superman's hax via Willpower Defense. But, at this point in the story Linx and Kiir don't have as much combat experience, so that means Batman and Superman still seem to hold the intelligence and combat advantage. That being said though, the other team does have lots more hax that Batman and Superman can't resist.

Mmm, so in summary, inconclusive for now.
 
Will their willpower defence still be effective, even if Batman controls will on a conceptual level?
 
Actually yes, Willpower Defense in-lore has been shown to be able to resist being controlled on a conceptual level. Example is when Zaunig attempted that very thing on Linx.

Furthermore, on the Gyrohem verse page itself, two of the things Willpower Defense can resist are Conceptual Manipulation and Mind Manipulation.
 
I copied and pasted a list of all the abilities (above). Basically, I will bold anything that can win the match, or is highly important, and strike through anything that isn't effective at all.

I can provide more clarification on abilities if needed.
 
Oh boy here we go. Aaaalright, let's see here... By the way, I'm assuming this is the epilogue version of both Linx and Kiir.

For Superman:

  • Combat Shield: Linx and Kiir have something similar via Aura Energy, where they can create a forcefield around them that scales to their AP. Also they can bypass this via Durability Negation.
  • Enhanced Senses: Supes definitely has the advantage here.
  • Heat Vision: Seems like only the AP would affect Linx and Kiir here, since they're resistant to elemental attacks.
  • Frost Breath: Same as heat vision.
  • Statistics Amplification: The stronger Supes gets, the stronger Linx and Kiir gets (though mostly just Kiir). For Linx, it's because of his own stat amp, because as long as he can imagine an attack stronger than him, he can increase his own strength (and it's easier to imagine when someone he's facing is getting continually stronger than him. P.S: He only increases his strength, not durability). For Kiir, it's because of her Reactive Evolution, which, when hit by an opponent stronger, she'll automatically gain that opponent's full strength (more on her profile).
  • Vampire Power: Advantage for Supes, though Linx does have a similar ability in the form of Blood Bolt Suction, where he drains the life-force out of an opponent through a durability negating energy beam, and heals him.
  • Unstoppable: Can likely be blocked via Probability Manipulation + Reality Manipulation combo. Both epilogue Linx and Kiir have these.
  • The Power of Zoom: Speed is equal, so...
  • Gift of Health: Does this count as outside help, or..? Either way, Linx has Blood Healing, which is similar to this ability, with the exception of healing himself instead of needing outside help for it. Plus Linx's Pressure Punch negates Regenerationn, so...
  • The Turtle's Strike: Outside help? Either way, this'll likely be resisted via Willpower Defense, because it falls under status effect inducement.
  • Armour: This doesn't really help when your enemy has durability ignoring attacks.
  • Cursed Specials: Define special moves. If it's just every strong attack, it'll still be resisted via Willpower Defense.
  • OHK: Willpower Defense. Nuff said.
  • Portal Creation: Advantage for Supes. Linx and Kiir don't really have a counter to this.
  • Rage Shield: Won't help when his opponents can ignore durability and can resist bypassing armour attacks.
  • Last Son of Krypton Infusion: Linx and Kiir aren't villains, so... and once again, won't help when Linx and Kiir can ignore durability.
  • Regime Regalia Infusion: Once again, Linx and Kiir would grow in power every time Supes grows in power.
  • The House of El Infusion: Linx and Kiir grows in power every time Supes does, and they can resist heat. Keep in mind Linx and Kiir fought Abyssion, who was able to make his attacks as hot as he wanted.
  • Armour of the Yellow Sun Infusion: Supes gets an advantage here.
  • Damage Shield: Won't help against Durability Negation and sure-fire hits via Reality Manipulation and Probability Manipulation.
  • Bullet Proof: No bullets here, so...
  • No Weaknesses: What if those projectiles ignore durability?
  • BFR/Sealing: Advantage for Supes. Linx and Kiir have no way of getting out of there unless Linx turns into Final Form to teleport out with Kiir.
  • Super Androids: Outside help? Also Linx fought something similar to these via Delta. I'll count this as an advantage I guess.
  • Immortality: Advantage for Supes... if it weren't for Linx and Kiir usually always going for an incapacitation or knock-out instead of killing the person.
  • Indomitable Fear: Linx and Kiir don't use any mind tricks, so this is useless here.
  • Energy Consttructs: Durability Negation. Nuff said.
  • Bound: Not combat applicable.
PHEW! Alright, time for Batman:

  • Combat Shield: Already went over this with Supes. This is countered.
  • Teleportation: Seemingly teleport, not actual teleport. Linx and Kiir's own Enhanced Senses and Precognition would be able to still sense Batman.
  • Brother Eye: Not combat applicable.
  • Batwing: Linx has flight to counter this, but overall this is an advantage for Batman.
    • Machine Guns: Willpower Defense resists. Would just be an AP attack.
    • Shields: Linx and Kiir have their own shields, and they can simply ignore its durability and attack through it.
    • Rockets: Countered by Aura Energy attacks (basically ki blasts). All the types of rockets are also resisted via Willpower Defense.
  • Batmobile: Overall, it's an advantage to Batman.
    • Flamethrower: Resisted via Willpower Defense.
    • Transformation: Overall advantage for Batman.
  • Batboat: Another advantage for Batman. Its added abilities are also advantages.
  • Taser-Rangs: Willpower Defense. Nuff said.
  • Sleeping Powder: Willpower Defense once again.
  • Vampire Power: Advantage for Batman, though Linx does have Blood Bolt Suction to do something similar. Plus he can negate Regenerationn.
  • Unstoppable: Probability Manipulation and Reality Manipulation may possibly allow Linx and Kiir to block the attacks. Every time Batman grows in strength Linx and Kiir will too. Already discussed with Supes.
  • The Power of Zoom: Speed equalized. Already discussed with Supes.
  • Gift of Health: Already discussed with Supes.
  • The Turtle's Strike: Already discussed with Supes.
  • Armour: Already discussed with Supes.
  • Security Orbs: Aura Energy could counter these.
  • Cursed Specials: Already discussed with Supes.
  • OHK: Already discussed with Supes.
  • Portal Creation: Already discussed with Supes.
  • Enhanced Gloves: Willpower Defense resists.
  • Billionaire Infusion: Linx and Kiir aren't rich, so this won't help Batman.
  • Kryptonite Armour Infusion: Could possibly be an advantage, however this may count as status effect inducement or statistics amplification, which the former is resisted via Willpower Defense, and the latter will only boost Linx and Kiir's strength.
  • Insurgent Infusion: Linx and Kiir aren't criminals, and once again, this can count as stat amp, which Linx and Kiir can gain strength from.
  • Justice League Founder Infusion: Linx and Kiir aren't leaders. If Supes gets stronger from this, so will Linx and Kiir via Stat Amp and Reactive Evolution respectively.
  • Plasteel Tactical Infusion: Durability Negation and Statistics Amplifcation. Nuff said. Stealth won't be more affective via Linx and Kiir's Enhanced Senses and Precognition.
  • Luther/Wayne Infustion: Linx and Kiir aren't scientists. Stat Amp and Reactive Evolution counters.
  • Triple Jump: Um. Advantage, I guess? Linx can fly though, so.
  • Flight: Overall, this is an advantage for Batman.
  • Enhanced Physiology: Linx can do this too, though Kiir can't.
  • Utility Belt: Overall advantage for Batman.
  • Green Lantern Ring: Not combat applicable from what I see here.
  • Bat Drones: Outside help, though Linx and Kiir are used to this, and can adapt as they adapt as well. Similar situation to Supes' Super Androids. Could be an advantage however.
  • Perfect Invisibility: Linx and Kiir still have precognition.
  • Big Brother Eye: Advantage for Batman.
  • Mirror Images: Not combat applicable from what I see.
  • Immortality: Linx and Kiir don't go for killing blows.
  • Indomitable Will: Linx and Kiir don't use mind attacks.
  • Energy Constructs: Durability Negation. Nuff said.
  • Bound: Not combat applicable.
 
I italicized the ones Supes and Batman still have an advantage in. As you can see, most abilities on there are countered.

In summary, the only abilities Supes and Batman have an advantage in are these:

Enhanced Senses, Vampire Power, Portal Creation, Armour of the Yellow Sun Infustion, BFR/Sealing, Batwing, Batmobile (including Transformation), Batboat (and all of its gadgets), Kryptonite Armour Infustion (possibly), Triple Jump, Flight, Utility Belt, Bat Drones, and Big Brother Eye.

Everything else is either countered or the other side have a blatant advantage in.
 
Willpower Defense won't work all of the time. (Resistance =/ Immunity)


I'm still voting for Linx and Kiir.


Also, how long until their Aura drains completely?
 
  • I put italics under "Statitics Amplification" because of him being "near impossible to kill"
  • Healing and Curses: Doctor Fate has blessed the character. I sincerely doubt it can be resisted since Doctor Fate can manipulate The Source, unless you want me to give you the benefit of the doubt since he doesn't have a profile yet.
  • Cursed Specials: Means like using a special ability that's unique
  • Projectiles: It's counts as invulnerability so yes?
  • Super Androids: They're summons, built by Superman, so it should be fine.
  • Brother Eye: Is replaced by Big Brother Eye. LOL, all grown up now. XD
  • Triple Jump: Batman can already fly, it's just a stupid/funny ability unlocked in Injustice 2 as part of the legendary gear.
  • Bat Drones: Summons are allowed, he made them too
  • Mirror Images: Basic illusion manipulation. Can't attack, but serves as a distraction. Effective?
Made the possible changes.
 
To be honest, Aura doesn't really drain. Think of it like an invisible set of armor. As long as a tiny piece of armor remains, it can still protect. In this case, as long as there's a tiny bit of Aura left, Linx and Kiir can still use their abilities.

However, much like armor, after it's pierced, the regular flesh is exposed. In Linx and Kiir's case, once you pierce a part of their Aura, that part will be exposed, and any further attack in that area will actually damage their flesh (if they're not wearing armor. Linx is however, soo). Keep in mind that their bodies are still at least street level in durability without Aura. That means wherever they don't have Aura, that part will have street level durability, making them glass cannons.

But, it'll be incredibly hard to pierce because Aura acts basically like an added durability, and will only be damaged with something on the same tier, let alone cut through.

As for Willpower Defense, I know it's not immunity, but at the same time, Linx and Kiir's resistance to said abilities is 90%, so...
 
Wasn't their a rule about this on vsbattles because of the Flash though? That because of equalising speed who's super-power is based on speed, that increasing it mid-battle is allowed? I'll let it drop if someone can confirm what that issue was about.

Btw, stuff mentioned elsewhere on the pages

  • Utility bet = Plot Manipulation
  • Batman has hundreds of fighting styles
  • Batman and Superman have resistance and bypass durability on Kryptonians, Lanterns, Magic Users, Heroes and Villians via Doctor Fate Blessings/Augments
  • Both are Super Geniuses
 
Actually I am surprised no one ever mentioned Speed Blitz despite the fact there is quite literally a page to describe unfair speed stuff, but I digress.

Anyway I not voting, but clarified on what Colonel meant by that term.
 
@Colonel I do vaguely recall a thread regarding that, but I believe there wasn't any agreement to allow amplification of speed given the fact that speed boost during battle is normally unquantifable to a extent plus once again it will make it a sprite/stomp thread.
 
@Colonel It isn't WoG though as Reinhard and his spear (Dies Irae) will speed blitzed anyone during battle.

It also depend if the character has any known speed boost abilities that boost their speed considerably or a little more during battle.
 
Stat Amp: That's only inside the sun, soo. But hey, if they know about it, then they can just blow it up.

Power of Zoom: It's said multiple times on the main wiki that all speed is equalized, even ones that are amped, at least that's what I remember. The only one that would count is time manipulation, because that's technically not related to speed.

Healing and Curses: Didn't know that. I'll count them as advantages.

Cursed Specials: Willpower Defense probably negs then.

Projectiles: Welp. Physical attacks it is. What can't it be invulnerable to though? Because that sounds kinda nlf.

Super Androids: Already an advantage for Supes, soo.

Brother Eye: =^)

Triple Jump: Lmao. Still an advantage though. XP

Bat Drones: Already an advantage.

Mirror Images: Willpower Defense resists.

Utility Belt: There's nothing about Plot Manipulation in Willpower Defense, so that's still an advantage for Batman.

Linx and Kiir are considered Heroes, so that would make the Blessings/Augments effective. The fighting styles and super geniuses part is also true, other than the fact that both have precognition, and Linx in the epilogue has access to a broken precog which allows him to see all futures spanning infinitely, and act accordingly (essentially Nigh-Omniscience).
 
Invulnerability: Only on a 3-D scale (Low 2-C and above can affect Superman with Ranged attacks)

Does Linx have anything to win against Supes and Bats?
 
Well, since this is epilogue Blood Form Linx, he has his epilogue base form abilities alongside Blood Form's abilities. These include:

  • Aura Energy: Can be used to create forcefields that scale to his strength, and can create energy blasts from it. He can also spam the attacks a la Danmaku. This would do something to Batman, but probably only be a distraction for Supes. It could be similar to a smoke bomb that Batman uses, because he can create planet sized ones as a cover to hide where he's at, etc. He can get pretty creative with these, and so can Kiir.
  • Statistics Amplification: As I said before, he's able to increase his strength, all the way up to how much his imagination can let him. In the epilogue, he can imagine Low 2-C attacks, but since I didn't add that to his profile yet, I'll just ignore that. Since Supes will be increasing in strength throughout the entire fight, this allows Linx to grow in strength as well, having a clear imagination of a stronger attack through Supes. Kiir doesn't need imagination however, as she can just take a scratch from Supes and she'll automatically be buffed to his full power.
  • Willpower Defense: Nuff said, but more information's on the Gyrohem verse page.
  • Regenerationn Negation: via Pressure Punch. Keep in mind he was able to negate a High-Godly Regenerationn (the Core and Zaunig).
  • Precognition: Linx's precognition allows him to see all possible futures, spanning infinitely. He'll know every single thing Batman and Superman will, and will not do.
  • Reality Manipulation: Primarily uses this to attack enemies he couldn't attack previously. For instance: Linx with this ability is able to attack non-Corporeal, Acausal, and Omnilocked enemies, as well as erase the concept of distance temporarily to attack his enemies instantly or from far away. Same for Kiir.
  • Probability Manipulation: Linx is still able to achieve feats such as making his abilities always hit or making his enemies attacks always miss. Same for Kiir.
  • Blood Healing: It's basically just a healing ability.
  • Blood Bolt Suction: A durability negating thin bolt of energy (it goes through anything). When it hits his opponent, it'll heal Linx.
 
Team Knight advantages

  • Enhanced Senses: Superman has X-Ray vision, as well as being able to hear from interplanetary distances. He also has microscopic vision allowing him to see tiny details, in which his Knight of Justice form can see down to the level of quarks.
  • Superman is near impossible to kill when he is bathing inside a yellow/blue star. A blue star increases his power tenfold to what a yellow star would normally do.
  • Vampire Power: Performing attacks allows Superman and Batman to regenerate health with every attack.
  • Gift of Health: Doctor Fate releases healing energy at Superman and Batman.
  • The Turtle's Strike: Doctor Fate temporarily slows down the opponents.
  • Portal Creation: Both can open portals to different universes, across an entire multiverse.
  • Armour Of The Yellow Sun Infusion: Greatly increases Superman's stamina
  • No Weaknesses: Superman is naturally invulnerable to projectile based attacks
  • BFR/Sealing: Can absorb his opponent into his "S" symbol, that seals them away in the Phantom Zone, trapping them forever.
  • Super Androids: Superman can summons Super Androids, that come to his aid when needed. They can also gain the strength when Superman wears his yellow lantern ring, as well as being able to create energy constructs. They are based around Brainiac's Beta drones, so they have the ability to adapt to the opponents attacks/fighting styles.
  • Immortality: Both can't be killed as long long as the primary Yellow/Green Lantern battery is functional.
  • Batwing/mobile/boat: Distractions and additional support
  • Triple Jump: Can perform a triple jump (Awesome!)
  • Flight: Batman has the ability to fly unassisted by technology.
  • Enhanced Physiology: Batman is able to breathe in space and underwater without tech assistance.
  • Utility Belt: Batman has a utility belt that has has a ridiculous assortment of gadgets that are always ready to be used in convenient situations.This usually allows him to get out of almost every situation. (Plot Manipulation)
  • Bat Drones: Summons robotic versions of Batman, Robin, and Nightwing. Bat Drones are similar to Beta Drones in that they can adapt to the enemies attacks. Bat Drones can mimic Green Lantern energy when Batman puts on his green lantern ring, allowing them to gain strength and create energy constructs.
  • Batman and Superman have resistance and bypass durability on Kryptonians, Lanterns, Magic Users, Heroes and Villians via Doctor Fate Blessings/Augments
  • Big Brother Eye: A system designed to detect and predict attacks from cosmic forces, and attacks across the multiverse.
 
  • Aura Energy: Can bypass forcefields via durability negation (blessings/augments) if there's a Kryptonian, Lantern Corp, Magic User, Hero and/or Villian
  • Statistics Amplification: Works
  • Willpower Defense: Also works
  • Regenerationn Negation: Also works
  • Reality Manipulation: Useless, as they are not affected (except to erase the concept of distance)
  • Probability Manipulation: Always?
  • Blood Healing: Works
  • Blood Bolt Suction: Also works
 
Colonel, I will appreciate it if you drop those advantage as it seems they have equal opportunity to take one another out.

Edit: Still not voting though as I am merely a spectator.
 
Not always, there's limitations. Obviously one: if the user has resistance to the ability. Two: Higher-dimension. Three: It depends on their willpower to keep the probability up (though that isn't really a worry, as Linx and Kiir's willpower is extremely high).
 
EnderShadowr215 said:
Colonel, I will appreciate it if you drop those advantage as it seems they have equal opportunity to take one another out.
Click to expand...
I'm just listing the abilities that work. Don't tell me what I can and can't do, lmao.
 
I'm just listing the abilities that work. Don't tell me what I can and can't do, lmao.


Just saying, but it seems redundant to address those abilities when hax counter hax on equal footing.

Edit: I need to cool off as I am still angered about that particular something not related here, but elsewhere.
 
EnderShadowr215 said:
Just saying, but it seems redundant to address those abilities when hax counter hax on equal footing.
Click to expand...
I'm just letting people know which abilities do work so they don't get confused as to what does and doesn't work. That's the whole point.
 
As for Kiir, she has everything Linx has except for flight (Linx also has flight btw), his level of Precog (it's still pretty good for combat however), Blood Healing, and Blood Bolt Suction. In addition however, she also has this:

  • Reactive Evolution: In summary: when she gets hit by an opponent stronger, doesn't matter how much damage she takes from it, she'll automatically gain the opponent's full strength and recover all of her health. So basically, the stronger Superman and Batman become, the stronger Kiir will become, and will heal all damage from her.
 
You said that "Keep in mind that their bodies are still at least street level in durability without Aura. That means wherever they don't have Aura, that part will have street level durability, making them glass cannons."

Won't they get one shotted due to them being able to bypass the Aura?
 
Xmark12 said:
As for Kiir, she has everything Linx has except for flight (Linx also has flight btw), his level of Precog (it's still pretty good for combat however), Blood Healing, and Blood Bolt Suction. In addition however, she also has this:
  • Reactive Evolution: In summary: when she gets hit by an opponent stronger, doesn't matter how much damage she takes from it, she'll automatically gain the opponent's full strength and recover all of her health. So basically, the stronger Superman and Batman become, the stronger Kiir will become, and will heal all damage from her.
Click to expand...


Imagine ScrewAttack Superman fighting her, lol.
 
Xmark12 said:
As for Kiir, she has everything Linx has except for flight (Linx also has flight btw), his level of Precog (it's still pretty good for combat however), Blood Healing, and Blood Bolt Suction. In addition however, she also has this:
  • Reactive Evolution: In summary: when she gets hit by an opponent stronger, doesn't matter how much damage she takes from it, she'll automatically gain the opponent's full strength and recover all of her health. So basically, the stronger Superman and Batman become, the stronger Kiir will become, and will heal all damage from her.
Click to expand...
No offense, but that sounds NLF. What if she gets hits with an attack that would kill her (if it can)?
 
Colonel Krukov said:
You said that "Keep in mind that their bodies are still at least street level in durability without Aura. That means wherever they don't have Aura, that part will have street level durability, making them glass cannons."
Won't they get one shotted due to them being able to bypass the Aura?
Click to expand...
Durability Negation would ofc bypass it, but like, I think a better explanation is like two health bars in a video game boss. You'd have to get through the first health bar (Aura), then the 2nd health bar would drain much quicker (their base durability).

Anyways, it's basically just like a safety net. If that goes, they still have their regular durability to rely on. But Bats and Supes don't have Aura, so it can be said Linx and Kiir can one shot too via their hax. Also keep in mind Linx and Kiir still have regen as well, and can regenerate their Aura passively.

This is basically whether or not Linx and Kiir can take down Bats and Supes before their Aura is too broken to be exposed for a final attack from Bats or Supes.
 
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