• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bastard!! Upgrades.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello. I have intended to create this post for quite awhile now, but never quite found the time. Now that I have found some time, I can invest some of it to revise Bastard!! characters stats.

1. Angels, demons, generally anyone who has control over the Astral Plane.

The Seraphs / Angels and such are listed as Planet level, which is partially true, but they should be upgraded to Universe+' 'based on Porno Diane's statement, explanining that the Astral Plane is a 4Dimensional structure. Of course, this wouldn't necessarily apply to their physical mass, just their spiritual mass.

This would apply to Dominion Angels, Seraphs, Demon Lords and anyone who has control over the Astral Plane. I believe their DC should be laid out in such a manner:

[Dominion Angels DC]: Multi-Continental+ (Universe+ Spiritual Mass) etc.

2. Satan / Lucifer, anyone above [or comparable] to him.

As well all know, Satan was able to create a universe casually and then claimed it to be an imitation of God's work. Creating the Bastard!! verse takes a lot more energy than creating our universe, because of it's extra-dimensions, which are actually aspects of reality and not pocket dimensions like in Marvel and DC. From this, if I am not mistaken, this should be taken as a scientific 5Dimensional feat.

Also, do you recall Porno Diane's statement, elaborating on the fact that the Astral Plane is, in fact, the 4th Dimension and not time? This would essentially mean that time would have to be the 6th dimension at the minimum, with Satan having mastery over it from creating an entire space-time continuum. This is a minimum of 5 Dimensions, with the total rising when adding the concept of time.

The link I presented above, also has Porno Diano stating that magic is a power coming from "beyond the 4th Dimension", with Satan possessing such power. That's a minimum of seven dimensions, while slightly low-balling it.

According to this wiki's tiering system, 7 Dimensional characters are to be default assumed to possess Complex Multiversal Attack Potency and great space-time manipulation.

3. Dark Schneider, Seraphs [Augeides].

This part is just a continuation from my last point, discussing how Satan's tier would apply to the characters I listed above. From Bibilical references, and from statements in the series, we can confirm that the 4 Seraphs with their Augeoides matched and eventually subdued Satan, when he was in his very own Augeoides form. From this, we can conclude that:

Satan's Augeoides >= 4 Seraphs with Augeoides combined and Satan largely surpassing them individually. Michael and the Seraphs should at least be given a Multiversal, to Multiversal+ tier from this when in Augoeides. This is also somewhat consistent with the showings Uriel later displayed.

In regards to DS' Majin Form, he should be Universe+ with Spiritual Mass and Galaxy+ when in a materialized form. I have explained this in my initial point, so there should be no confusion here.

DS with DKL and Uriel with Dark Augoeides are both arguably superior to the Seraphs that subdued Satan, since the strongest of the 4, Michael was even surprised and shocked that the two generated enough power to destroy the Black Abyss. Conclusively, DS and Augoeides and Uriel are superior to the Seraphs, placing them at Multiverse+ - High Multiverse.

Finally, Dark Schneider in his Adam of Darkness was directly stated to be superior to Satan from creating Amrael, so he should be placed at the Complex Multiversal tier. With Satan's feat, I could go up to 12D (from the fact that the universe was stated to consist of a "highest dimension") but I believe you guys will pull me for inconsistency.

So, this is what DS' Attack Potency stats should actually look like:

[Post Timeskip Base] At least Planet level with Physical Mass (Universe+ with Spiritual Mass).

[Majin Form] At least Galaxy+ with boosts (Universe+ with Spiritual Mass).

[DKL] At least Multiverse+, Likely High-Multiversal (disregarding Spiritual Mass at this point, since his Physicall prowess was at this level as well).

[AoD] At least Complex Multiversal, Likely Higher.

Also, as confirmation to my original point, Uriel's Augeoides was messing with gravity and space-time manipulating it's surroundings simply from it's mass. So you just can't diss this post off ;D.
 
I think that we have gone through this previously, and that it was rejected.
 
The fourth dimension Porno Diane is referring to is not talking about spatial dimensions at all, but rather separate dimensions.

This is why anything related to dimensions needs to be closely moderated, because most people don't understand what is meant by them.
 
Tivanenk said:
The fourth dimension Porno Diane is referring to is not talking about spatial dimensions at all, but rather separate dimensions.

This is why anything related to dimensions needs to be closely moderated, because most people don't understand what is meant by them.
What aspect of the statement even remotely implied that it was referring to seperate dimensions?

The statement also highlighted the fact that the physical universe is a 3Dimensional world. Do you mean to tell me that the 3D segment was referring to "seperate dimensions" as well?

Also, do note that the Angels were stated to have lowered their dimensions just to materialize in the physical world.
 
It literally says the astral world. Not a spatial dimension.
That is because the Astral Plane is regarded to be in the 4th Dimension, by this statement and multiple others. I don't necessarily see how this helps your point.

Also, you have yet to address the other two points I mentioned in my last comment.
 
I noticed the dimensional talk when I read through Bastard!! my first time, and a while later, I wondered if the Wiki's tiering system could be applied to it. What I eventually realized is that there is a clear lack of understanding of the concept of Higher dimensions from the Author, Hagiwara, which then creates inconsistencies in the story in regards to the feats (as Ant said here).

Just think about it. It is absurd to think that there is such a large discrepancy in power among these characters just from simply existing in one of the different realms that exist in Bastard!! Yes, I know that it is fiction and that anything is possible, technically, but just let me explain.

The main problem with your proposed upgrades is that fact that Bastard has 0 feats or explanations contributing towards what you are trying to prove. In fact, it gives much more evidence that disproves what you are trying to say which I will explay further down. The only thing that would suggest anything higher dimensional in scale is the one scan you provided in which Porno Diane mentions that the Astral plane is in the 4th dimension, and is also quite vague if I might add. What I'm saying is that there is very little to go off of based off of this one statement, and that the rest of what you propose all comes down to conjecture and possibilities.

The main facts against your line of logic is all of the showings and statements seen throughout the series. The Demons and Angels who reside in the Astral Plane supposedly have Multiversal power if we look at that scan your way, and so would every other being that exists in and inahbits it, including Humans like Dark Schneider. However this is just a silly concept. Would any human who dies and goes to heaven or hell then have Multiversal power themselves since they exist in the 4th dimension as a soul at that point? Remember the 2nd timeskip? There were humans on Earth being antagonized by Demons, and then the Seraphs and Dark Schneider eventually showed up. Shortly after, Uriel tore through the Dimensional boundaries into Hell, causing all of the Humans in the area to fall down along with them. Everyone was there, there was fighting, but there was no mention of Universes, Multiverses or dimensions being affected from the fighting, and nothing even remotely hinting that the Seraphs were that powerful or could affect reality on that level. IF they are truly so powerful as you claim, why do they keep referring to the power of their strongest weapons like Leviathan as only being as strong as a supernova? Why is The Judas Pain, one of the most powerful objects in the series, described as only being able to destroy a Galaxy? Why are the Seraphs themselves, in their official descriptions, being stated only to be able to pulverize planets? Nothing here points toward your claims, but everything seems to work against them.

Now, I am not trying to discredit your argument, call you a fool, or anything of the like. I am simply trying to point out why these upgrades would not make sense and would work against everything that has already been shown in the series.
 
I agree with Sheoth. I should probably close this, and make a rule about not bringing up the subject again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top