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Bastard!! Revisions

ByAsura

He/Him
VS Battles
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This will be AP/dura only, but I might do one on abilities.

Feel free to bring up any other points, because the verse is in need of a big revision.

Beginning of Series​

Anthrax​

It's revealed in THE TALE OF CRIME AND PUNISHMENT - THE EXREME LIMITS that the story of the Dragon Knight was mostly a fabrication (it's implied they fought at some point, and Anthrax did cause immense destruction that far surpasses nuclear weaponry). In truth, the angels arrived and massacred most of humanity, and the Dragon Knight didn't stop it in a climactic battle. This was foretold by prophecies. Technically, this isn't even something on the level of an Archangel because they were involved in the extermination campaign as well and defeated weakened Lucifer on Earth.

Where should Anthrax (and everyone by extension) scale?

Above the main cast's Large Country level ratings to some degree. Even a single cell of Anthrax grown out of Kall-Su was stronger than Kall-Su, DS, Arshes, etc and a spell bound that almost rivalled its power could withstand a single Halloween, while Kall described its full power as immeasurable. It's also worth noting that Anthrax in its prime is a full body + the power of its fleet, making a full strength Anthrax way stronger than just its completed body—able to scorch most of the planet in about a week.

It also destroyed continents in a matter of hours upon awakening.

Dark Schneider (+ Lars Scaling Downgrade)​

Magic/Anthrax Key​

DS wasn't really weakened. Even before he was sealed, Kall-Su was regarded as a rival, and BoS DS is superior to Kall-Su. In fact, DS was a lot stronger than his supposed prime 15 years ago during the whole Anthrax saga because (as even he admits) Anthrax's partial resurrection greatly increased his abilities to the point where chapters are named after it. Though it's likely that his Halloween still has the same potency, since Black Sabbath > Halloween, and DS + Arshes' Halloweens were almost 2x stronger than BS.

If this is the case, then why was Lars able to one-shot an angel with the same rank as Anthrax? Idk, but they're parts of Anthrax's fleet. It could also just be PIS because even goons that were beaten by DS could rip them apart, and then proceed to fight angels 20 times more powerful. It's even stated that DS was their best bet.

DS' attacks should have a different level, or at least some kind of up to rating, or just different ratings for certain spells. For example, Megadeath, which isn't even DS' most powerful spell, requires two opposing deities and can't be performed by Arshes Nei without the Thunder Sword. Most of his spells absolutely pale in comparison to Megadeath, let alone Halloween and Black Sabbath (his two strongest spells at the time).

Now, to expand on my previous point about Anthrax boosting DS' abilities, I think it should honestly be a new key since Anthrax is active up to DS' death. During Anthrax's full resurrection, DS' abilities were boosted to the point where he could easily stomp the former, and channel the power of his friends to an even greater level than they could.

Durability​

Especially prior to his Anthrax boost, DS is a glass cannon, as Arshes and DS himself were able to inflict normally fatal injuries with just their physical strength, while using Halloween at full power was wrecking his body. He even all-but admits that Arshes' Megadeath would've killed him if he didn't set up a barrier, and amped Kall splits him in two (he's amped to a similar degree). Even his barriers aren't strong enough to withstand spells on the scale of Halloween or Black Sabbath.

As for his pre-Anthrax feats.
Idk what that'd get, but maybe at most Large Country level can suffice pre-Anthrax.

He tanks one of Anthrax's attacks without a spellbound at his peak.
 
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I found the Bastard!! spell book, so I'll update this soon.
 
Hmmm, I thought it might be a downgrade, since some abilities such as resistance negation of Angel is wrong I guess, it sound like stronger hax to me instead of negating other's resistance
 
Here's everything I found that can be used for AP or calculations.

Megadeath is 100x stronger than Damned, which the same guide describes as capable of pulverizing castle walls, and has the energy of thunder storms + earthquakes. This is very impressive since amped DS killed Lynch with Damned when Arshes couldn't harm him.

Guns'n'Roses is 500 to 1000 degrees C. This is substantiated by the fact that Efreet's 2,000 C+ attacks are twice as hot. Amped DS at one point makes a city-wide fire wall.

Helion raises the caster's body to 20,000 C (Efreet is massive). Exodus also raises the caster's body to 20,000 C, and scales above Hellion since he used it to beat Efreet.

Impellitteri has the power of a hand grenade. This is consistent with what we see in the series.

Riot is 3x stronger than Balvolt. This and the Balvolt page implies that the power of Balvolt doesn't vary from user to user.

Ray Bow is 50x stronger than Anthem, which can kill people.

The average temperature of Biscaya is -20 degrees C. Kall-Su froze a large castle with this. DS' fire scales to Kall.

Vengeance, a large energy bolt, is made of super-heated plasma.
 
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Agree, the story where the fight between Anthrax and DKL is at best rumors not a factual event, especially when we get to know what Really happened. I has been iffy about the multi-continent rating quite sometime now it can be safely removed.
At least Large Country Level should be fine

Yes, Anthrax's resurrection massively amplified those who are dark/evil in nature, it even managed to boost DS regeneration to the point where he could revive himself.

Lars shouldn't be considered as PIS since he possesses the power of Mythical Dragons, which are said to specifically be able to bypass almost any kinds of physical and magical defense and hence, is dura skipping in some way. Tho I agree he may not scale to them physically.

For Kall's generals and DS's gangs being able to defeat angels, those are just lower-order ones. Anthrax's rank is supposed to be Dominion which is the 4th strongest of the nine races in the angel hierarchy. Angels being the weakest (9th), follow by Archangels who are said to be x2 stronger, then Principalities (7th) are the strongest type of angels DS goons could defeat. This is more evident as they all got completely shut down once angels of the second sphere (ranked 6-4) joined the game. A Power (6th) rank angel got rid of them quite effortlessly.

Agree that DS AP can be varied depending on the spells he uses, and that magicians in general are glass cannons, they even specifically stated this somewhere iirc.
 
It says via sheer intensity, so I'd argue Lars' feat is still AP.

My mistake. How much weaker are they than Dominions? IIRC, they give all the multipliers between angel classes.
 
It says via sheer intensity, so I'd argue Lars' feat is still AP.
Can I have the scans. Also, the angels themselves weren't surprised (they were at first) that they could be damaged when they found out the origin of Lar's power so it really shouldn't be PIS
My mistake. How much weaker are they than Dominions? IIRC, they give all the multipliers between angel classes.
Unfortunately, only the difference between Dominions (4th) and the 3rd fleet of angels is specified (20 times), and that high-ranked demons are 6600x stronger, the latter doesn't count as this thread has explained.
One thing we can safely assume every single angel should be at least stronger than monsters early on in the series.
 
It's revealed in THE TALE OF CRIME AND PUNISHMENT - THE EXREME LIMITS that the story of the Dragon Knight was mostly a fabrication (it's implied they fought at some point, and Anthrax did cause immense destruction that far surpasses nuclear weaponry). In truth, the angels arrived and massacred most of humanity, and the Dragon Knight didn't stop it in a climactic battle. This was foretold by prophecies. Technically, this isn't even something on the level of an Archangel because they were involved in the extermination campaign as well and defeated weakened Lucifer on Earth.
While I do agree the overall story of why the ancient world was destroyed is a fabrication and that the Angels were the ones to massacre humanity, a fight between Anthrasax and the Dragon Knight did still take place. So if we can assume that the feats stated about Anthrasax, the Dragon Knight, and the battle was accurate as we have been, then we can still assume they are even though their battle was not what caused the destruction of humanity.
 
While I do get that Anthrasax was not the one to cause the Great Destruction, what I'm saying is that Anthrasax still has the possibility of these feats. The scan itself states that "Her power was frightening! Her breath causes mountains to burst and oceans to boil". Not only is the feat not inherently discussing Anthrasax performing these feats in a battle with the Dragon Armor/Spirit, but the battle between Anthrasax and the Dragon Spirit is a separate event from the Great Destruction that has been interpreted as the cause of it.

Basically, the feat itself is based on a description of Anthrasax herself, not any battle that took place. While you could argue the feats are embellished since the story is describing the results of a different battle, it can still be argued that the fight between Anthrasax and the Dragon Armor/Spirit did in fact take place.

Outside of that, I do still think the feat could be called into question. The High 6-A ranking seems to come from a calculation on evaporating ALL of earth's oceans being 1.51e17 tons of TNT. Considering the feat says it can boil "Oceans", it doesn't seem likely for it to be referring to all oceans on earth. It's the same as interpreting the feat saying "Her breath causes mountains to burst" as referring to all mountains on the planet. It makes more sense to calculate it for 1-2 oceans worth of water.

EDIT: My mistake, the calc does refer to the boiling of one ocean by dividing the hypothetical mass of the ocean by 5 (the number of oceans) to use as the mass for boiling. I think I misinterpreted it since I just couldn't imagine boiling one ocean to be so high, although 6-A is a VERY wide range.
 
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Which is from the incorrect lullaby in chapter 70, not the correct scans. Canonically, Anthrax just destroyed cities 400 years ago and required hours to days just to do a fraction of what you're talking about.

Given that the entire battle supposedly happened over 7 days, and the vast majority of the characters in that battle were superior to Anthrax, there's almost no way that she was the cause and the characters very explicitly say she's not, so we shouldn't accept it as being a possibility based on all the counter-evidence.

They literally say the Great Destruction wasn't her, though. I don't even see the point in arguing just because she was beaten by a Dragon. Plus they say the lullabies are bullshit, and one of the lullabies was the 7 days stuff caused by Anthrax.

As I showed in the scans, they outright say the interpretations are wrong. It doesn't matter what they were, even if there was some grain of truth to it.

There's no reason for even a possibly rating. All we know, for a fact, is that she was defeated by a Dragon at a time when the planet-destroying angels were fighting humanity.
 
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By the way, does anyone have access to the Bastard!! data book?
 
Agree with the Dark Schneider/Lars scaling downgrade, never quite understood why that was there in the first place as the series is quite explicit about Dark Schneider being even stronger than ever many times. It's more reasonable to assume Lars is much stronger upon returning to his human form than to assume DS was ridiculously stronger originally.

Agree with the Anthrax downgrade as well.
 
Thanks very much. If I can't get it todayish (might've got a working download), I'll ask for some stuff.
 
I managed to find a one copy of the databook (from reddit, so sharing the link is allowed here) that anyone here can access as I was simultaneously downloading it.

I'll be posting updates from it if I find anything.
 
Ok, it's outright stated on page 10 that the Demons and Angels are responsible for destroying the Old World.

The databook doesn't really even present Anthrax as doing much at all.
 
Another detail as well is that the Devil that DS stomped was 6,600 times stronger than Anthrax.

He even places himself in that same category when shit-talking DS.

So how can they be stronger than the Seraphs? He's probably just hyping himself. After all, Hell lost the battle of Earth 400 years ago.
 
Yeah, the Anthrax scaling has always been flawed after the Angel plot twist.

Dunno if Large Country level really fits in with actual displayed showings though.
 
Another detail as well is that the Devil that DS stomped was 6,600 times stronger than Anthrax.

He even places himself in that same category when shit-talking DS.

So how can they be stronger than the Seraphs? He's probably just hyping himself. After all, Hell lost the battle of Earth 400 years ago.
I remember debunking this in one of the threads. Oh yeah here it is

3) Statements about High-level demons 6600x stronger than Anthrax: The scan literally debunked itself. These high-level demons cannot be stronger than Seraphs, as the only individuals that rival 4 Seraphs in power are the 7 Demon/Devil Lords. Also, it would be a big big big inconsistency for them to be actually that strong, since if that was the case, the Heaven Army would have been bodied during the Great War, for Seraphim, which is the highest rank in the angel's hierarchy and only have 4 beings in this rank while Hell Army possesses countless demons, each of whom is stronger than a seraph. And well it is not the case obviously, The army of Heaven won the war and rebellions them in the lowest floor of Hell-Cocytus.
-There's also the fact that if they were actually stronger than Seraphs, they wouldn't just be 6600x Anthrax/A dominion(you will see why later)
-And we can see that demon was saying with a tone of bias. He even might have made up that number for the sake of satisfaction( I mean, 6600 <=> 666 = Satan, isn't it too much for a coincidence?)
 
I know the debunk already, and I originally agreed even before I saw that (I'd planned to revise it some time ago).

My point is that he's obviously wrong about being stronger than Seraphim.

As for them winning the war inside of Hell, it's stated that Fallen Angels are at their strongest in Hell.
 
I know the debunk already, and I originally agreed even before I saw that (I'd planned to revise it some time ago).

My point is that he's obviously wrong about being stronger than Seraphim.

As for them winning the war inside of Hell, it's stated that Fallen Angels are at their strongest in Hell.
nvm on this point, the guide contradicts itself.
 
Which is from the incorrect lullaby in chapter 70, not the correct scans. Canonically, Anthrax just destroyed cities 400 years ago and required hours to days just to do a fraction of what you're talking about.

Given that the entire battle supposedly happened over 7 days, and the vast majority of the characters in that battle were superior to Anthrax, there's almost no way that she was the cause and the characters very explicitly say she's not, so we shouldn't accept it as being a possibility based on all the counter-evidence.

They literally say the Great Destruction wasn't her, though. I don't even see the point in arguing just because she was beaten by a Dragon. Plus they say the lullabies are bullshit, and one of the lullabies was the 7 days stuff caused by Anthrax.

As I showed in the scans, they outright say the interpretations are wrong. It doesn't matter what they were, even if there was some grain of truth to it.

There's no reason for even a possibly rating. All we know, for a fact, is that she was defeated by a Dragon at a time when the planet-destroying angels were fighting humanity.
Fair enough. I was just saying that even though Anthrasax didn't cause the great destruction, feats attributed to her instead of the great destruction itself could still be used. Though the argument that the story is less what actually happened and a literal retelling of a false story could most likely be embellished.
 
Does the guide cover up to the end of the series? (Or up to when it went on haitus, rather)
 
It covers Uriel's fall and Satan's true appearance, so I think that means it goes up to just before Uriel and DS' fight.
 
I've been working on calculations when I have the time.
 
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