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Base Sonic speed Downgrade

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Adamjensen2030

Adamjensen2030

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As much as I like Sonic the Hedgehog verse, Metal Mario875 and I have discovered some scans that prove Base Sonic is NOT FTL.

Going by the Chronological order of Sonic games here are his speed descriptions:


CS_S_US.png
Mach 1 - Sonic the Hedgehog

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/8/85/SonicAdventure_DC_US_manual.pdf Hypersonic - Sonic Adventure

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/8/87/SonicAdvance_GBA_US_manual.pdf Sonic Advance

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/e/e5/SonicAdvance2_GBA_US_manual.pdf Sonic Advance 2

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/9/90/SonicBattle_GBA_US_manual.pdf Supersonic - Sonic Battle

https://info.sonicretro.org/images/1/1c/SonicHeroes_PS2_US_manual.pdf Sonic Heroes

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/1/16/SonicRush_DS_US_manual.pdf Supersonic - Sonic Rush

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Mach_Speed Mach speed, Transonic - Sonic 06

https://info.sonicretro.org/images/3/38/SonicRivals2_PSP_US_manual.pdf Supersonic - Sonic Rivals 2

http://info.sonicretro.org/images/6/67/SonicChronicles_DS_US_manual.pdf Supersonic - Sonic Chronicles

https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/article_attachments/201001661/SG_360_FULL_rnd2.pdf Sonic Generations

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-kQozei5Sc Mach 1 - Sonic Mania

With that being said, his speed went up then down then up then down.

Just because Sonic gets more powerful every second doesn't mean he gets faster every second.

Stronger =/= Faster

Thanks for reading.
 
Pretty much this.

He is very consistently at that speed. The amount of official statements saying that this is Sonic's speed far outweighs the single reliable statement implying he's faster than light. Omega's statement says Sonic can potentially eventually surpass lightspeed, and Sonic's statements are primarily due to his arrogance. One of the FTL statements exaggerates Sonic's abilities by saying he's the fastest videogame character using the Guiness Book of World Records, and his feats--like catching the Cyan Laser Wisp and outrunning the Sonic Colors black hole--are subjective. The former feat involved Sonic catching the Wisp, not the laser the Wisp transforms him into. The latter wasn't even a real black hole, nor did Sonic successfully escape it. In the end, this speed is the most consistent speed depicted for the hedgehog. And sure, while it may be inconsistent, there's always lower end feats like being speedblitzed by boards that are 200-300mph in the Riders series and barely escaping trucks in the Adventure games. So, as said, there's high-ends and low-ends; neither should be used; this is the most consistent rating.

Anyways, if someone wants a short-cut to the statements, here: https://imgur.com/a/6Yxv8k3
 
I can see a downgrade, just here to see what happens. I'm neutral on the topic.

Edit: Ok no downgrade, but I expect his profile to be updated.
 
Metal Mario875 also knows what he's saying.

If people are gonna believe that Sonic is FTL in Base via Guiness Book of World Records which isn't 100% Sega official aka secondary canon then we might as well believe that Saitama is Star level via secondary canon which he isn't.
 
@Eficiente: Gotcha.

@Adam: I pretty much agree. Besides; even with one statement of FTL being legit, we would go for the more consistent rating, right? This speed rating has twelve statements going for it. Likely more.

@Weekly: Definitely. XD
 
Metal Mario875 said:
@Adam: I pretty much agree. Besides; even with one statement of FTL being legit, we would go for the more consistent rating, right? This speed rating has twelve statements going for it. Likely more.
Click to expand...
Guiness Book of World Records is likely implying Sonic is FTL in Sonic Generations. It contradicts the main canon in the game's manuel which states that Base Sonic in Sonic Generations is Supersonic in Base so it cancels out the FTL statement.

How about Base Sonic's speed varies from transonic to Hypersonic?
 
Adamjensen2030 said:
Metal Mario875 also knows what he's saying.
If people are gonna believe that Sonic is FTL in Base via Guiness Book of World Records
Click to expand...
Please f*cking stop this hoax. This is wrong.

Sonic is stated to be FTL in base in an official Sonic Guidebook. Said Guidebook mentiones the Guiness World Record but that in itself has nothing to do with the FTL statement in the guidebook.
 
I disagree with this considering there's legitimate feats and statements from the creators that he's far faster than mach speed.
 
Sonic has:

  • Dodged and reacted to realistic lasers
  • Moved faster than his own Lightspeed Dash which is consistently stated to be Lightspeed
  • Stated to be Lightspeed in Sonic Unleashed
  • Stated to be FTL in Sonic Generations Guidebook
  • Calculated by Omega to be FTL in Sonic Colors
  • Outran the Light Wisp which moves as a beam of light in a straight line
  • Stated by the head of Sonic Team to be faster than light in some games
But I guess none of this matters, because Sonic's theme song goes "Running around at the speed of sound, got places to go gotta follow my rainbow."
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Sonic has:
  • Dodged and reacted to realistic lasers
  • Moved faster than his own Lightspeed Dash which is consistently stated to be Lightspeed
  • Stated to be Lightspeed in Sonic Unleashed
  • Stated to be FTL in Sonic Generations Guidebook
  • Calculated by Omega to be FTL in Sonic Colors
  • Outran the Light Wisp which moves as a beam of light in a straight line
  • Stated by the head of Sonic Team to be faster than light in some games
But I guess none of this matters, because Sonic's theme song goes "Running around at the speed of sound, got places to go gotta follow my rainbow."While i honestly still think that Sonic is FTL, some of the feats you mentioned are wrongs:
Click to expand...
While i honestly still think that Sonic is FTL, some of the feats you mentioned are wrongs. at least from my point of views: Omega's statement says Sonic can eventually surpass lightspeed, and Sonic's statements are primarily due to his arrogance. One of the FTL statements exaggerates Sonic's abilities by saying he's the fastest videogame character, and his feats--like catching the Cyan Laser Wisp and outrunning the Sonic Colors black hole--are subjective. The former feat involved Sonic catching the Wisp, not the laser the Wisp transforms him into. The latter wasn't even a real black hole, nor did Sonic successfully escape it. In the end, this speed is the most consistent speed depicted for the hedgehog. And sure, while it may be inconsistent, there's always lower end feats like being speedblitzed by boards that are 200-300mph in the Riders series and barely escaping trucks in the Adventure games.

He also never dodged realistic lasers, or at least we can't say they are realistic without proof. And still, dodging lasers isn't always a FTL feat, especially sonce Classic Sonic had a laser-dodginf feat that was calced at Sub-Rel+.

He was never stated to be lightspeed in Unleashed, at least i don't remember that. In that game, at best, he was able to break the sound barrier.

He moved faster than his own Lightspeed Dash? Where and when? Also, that would be somewhat inconsistent considering that Sonic himslef needed the powerups in order to actually travel at Lightspeed.

Sorry if it sounds rude, but stating something without links it's not the best thing to do. Your links will actually help here. If everything you mentioned actually happened and doesn't have any fallacy, i guess FTL Sonic is perfectly fine.
 
No, Omega's statement says that Sonic was surpassing Lightspeed, to which Sonic said it was no problem to him. Outrunning the Light Wisp and escaping the Black Hole are very direct feats.

And yes, the realistic laser is Sub-Relativistic+ but that's for Classic Sonic which is inferior in every way.

Yes he was stated to be Lightspeed in the Manual for unleashed.

He moved faster than his own Lightspeed Dash in Unleashed, Colors and Generations at least. The Lightspeed Dash in that game does not reach the fastest speed which you can reach in-game, and when asked about this Takashi Iizuka did say that Sonic is moving FTL when he is at max speed in Unleashed.
 
Well then, i guess FTL Sonic is still a thing.

Though, i still somewhat think that the Light Wisp thing isn't so direct as a feat.I don't see how this is a FTL feat, at all. The wisp was empowering Sonic..or maybe this isn't even the feat that makes Sonic FTL.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but do you mind showing links?

BTW, my point about Classic Sonic dodging laser was an example to clarify the fact that laseras aren't necessarily Lightspeed.

Also, the Black Hole feat also doesn't seem FTL to me. Sonic outrunned the black hole for a very limited period of time, and he also had problems in resisting the very gravitional pull. It seems more like a Relativistic feat to me.
 
Guys, just because Metal Mario875 has Mario in his username doesn't make him a Mario fanboy/Sonic hater. Stop being biased against him. I trust him and his reasonings.

Matthew, provide explicit proof that Sonic accomplished Light speed and FTL feats via links, photos, videos, etc.
 
Adam, that is out of context. Matt isn't being hostile or rude to Metal, at all. Just an advice, you shouldn't always say that, mainly because people will get annoyed by that.

But i agree with your last statement anyway.
 
ArceusBowser44, TurboTriangle601:

In the past Metals thread for upgrading Wario he got called Super Wario Wank. He told me how insulted he really felt. He convinced me of Low 2-C MFTL+ Mario if we go by consistency. Check out his Mario profiles and feats.
 
Adamjensen2030 said:
Guys, just because Metal Mario875 has Mario in his username doesn't make him a Mario fanboy/Sonic hater. Stop being biased against him. I trust him and his reasonings.

Matthew, provide explicit proof that Sonic accomplished Light speed and FTL feats via links, photos, videos, etc.
Click to expand...
Nobody has accused him of being a fanboy/hater of anything.
 
Dark, is that even necessary? Now you are the one acting like a child. Not to mention your constant "i don't care about your opinions" attitude. Please stop with that.

I never downplayed Sonic at all, i just try to being reasonable. As a matter of a fact, i don't have a problem with FTL Sonic. Hell, i honestly think that Base Sonic should actually be Planet level, though i do disagree with Tier 2 Super forms.

Also, i changed my mind about Mario, and still, i won't call that being biased towards Mario: i genuinely believed in Tier 2 Mario, mainly because to me the feats seemed legit. I made the thread because i wanted to share my opinion, and i thought "shoot, maybe there will be some people who will agree with me".

I'm sorry, very sorry if i was an ass to all of you because of that thread. I didn't want to make myself look like a Mario wanker or something, neither i wanted to be a bad person or other things. If that thread or something i did in the past offended you in any way, i'm sorry, very sorry.
 
Metal told me that he feels that people are biased against him because he is a Mario expert. I understand how he feels.
 
Lmao. Lemme guess, let's downgrade all DB characters because Dyspo was stated to only be light speed. Same logic used to downplay Sonic here.

He's stated to be faster than sound because his damn name is Sonic. And Sonic being faster than Mach 1 is old...very old. He has feats beyond that and it is also stated his true speed hasn't ever been seen and probably never will be.
 
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense honestly.

Hypersonic Sonic is kind of ridicolous, in my opinion, mainly because of Matthew's first argument. (about the manuals).

Not to mention that if the others feats Matt "showed" actually happened, than FTL Sonic can't be rejected, at all.
 
People really need to get out of their soapboxes. Apparently whenever someone disagrees with you they are apparently biased against you. It ain't that serious. Matter of fact it seems like he's saying we are biased against him because we disagree in which is not the best state of mind. This "evidence" is blatant nitpicking. We couldn't give two ***** if he's a Mario fan or not. The evidence presented does not hold water, simple as that. What he supports has nothing to do with his arguments. Simple as that.
 
Adam, that is out of context. Just giving you an advice, DON'T do that.

You'll just ruin your reputation and it'll also make people believe that you are an annoying guy with that constant Metal's blogs and statements spamming.

Just giving you an advice, and a very useful one.
 
I agree with the staff, let's please stay professional here; and Sonic does have multiple legit FTL feats; especially combat speed feats which is what is most relevant. Also, Mach 1? Even if you ignored various FTL feats, statements, laser dodgings, ect; Sonic 06 legitimately showcases Sonic's regular movement speed at like Mach 8 on the radar; so movement speed is Hypersonic at bare minimum. Though as Matt said, Sonic has multiple FTL feats, so nothing needs to be downgraded here.
 
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