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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Ghostimuscrime said:
yeah but like what brings it to 5x?

is she like fighting people that are 5x stronger in volstandig or the volstandig is above blut art so youre using that to say (5+5+3)x
Click to expand...
More specifically:

Base Komamura ~ 443.5 PT ~< Bambi < Bambi with Blut or with Kokujo Tengen Myoo ~ 2.2175 ET < Vollstandig Bambi < V Bambi with Blut ~ 11.0875 ET < Sklaverai Bambi with Blut ~ 33.2625 ET

Giselle > Bambi, aka Giselle gets her scaling from Bambi who scales to Komamura and then multipliers factor in.

Edit: honestly Vollstandig probably should be a 5-10x stat amp in and of itself, there's a lot of consistency for it, but multiplier standards are understandably strict here so for some Sternritter they end up with a "pseudo Bankai amp with V" and for others its just unquant.
 
Damage3245 said:
Comparing horrible scaling metas on here is proper entertainment.
Click to expand...
How Damage is seeing this discourse


https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1339356521812856892/cover1.png?ex=67ae6c76&is=67ad1af6&hm=bb9e2df41810027cf952c5e6bfff57c5958765b4c43167e26e19bcc306bbe45e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2109&height=1185
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
More specifically:

Base Komamura ~ 443.5 PT ~< Bambi < Bambi with Blut or with Kokujo Tengen Myoo ~ 2.2175 ET < Vollstandig Bambi < V Bambi with Blut ~ 11.0875 ET < Sklaverai Bambi with Blut ~ 33.2625 ET

Giselle > Bambi, aka Giselle gets her scaling from Bambi who scales to Komamura and then multipliers factor in.

Edit: honestly Vollstandig probably should be a 5-10x stat amp in and of itself, there's a lot of consistency for it, but multiplier standards are understandably strict here so for some Sternritter they end up with a "pseudo Bankai amp with V" and for others its just unquant.
Click to expand...
Ok bambi's part makes sense

is there anything saying v giselle > v bambi?
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Ok bambi's part makes sense

is there anything saying v giselle > v bambi?
Click to expand...
It's not spoonfed to us explicitly but we can deduce such a conclusion to be likely. Vollstandig isn't power born from their own skill etc etc etc, it's a tool given to them by Yhwach to amp them. There's also equally no reason to assume that when Kubo is saying Giselle is superior to Bambi that he's limiting it to their base forms. The statement instead just speaks in broad superiority. On the profile I only hyperlink it once where it first appears (her base AP) b/c I'm lazy and assume people can read the profile and don't need the same thing linked 10 times.

Edit: actually it makes more sense for V Giselle to be above V Bambi, or less Giselle just isn't stronger than Bambi, since Bambi could just power up and be stronger.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It's not spoonfed to us explicitly but we can deduce such a conclusion to be likely. Vollstandig isn't power born from their own skill etc etc etc, it's a tool given to them by Yhwach to amp them. There's also equally no reason to assume that when Kubo is saying Giselle is superior to Bambi that he's limiting it to their base forms. The statement instead just speaks in broad superiority. On the profile I only hyperlink it once where it first appears (her base AP) b/c I'm lazy and assume people can read the profile and don't need the same thing linked 10 times.
Click to expand...
You snooze you lose
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It's not spoonfed to us explicitly but we can deduce such a conclusion to be likely. Vollstandig isn't power born from their own skill etc etc etc, it's a tool given to them by Yhwach to amp them. There's also equally no reason to assume that when Kubo is saying Giselle is superior to Bambi that he's limiting it to their base forms. The statement instead just speaks in broad superiority. On the profile I only hyperlink it once where it first appears (her base AP) b/c I'm lazy and assume people can read the profile and don't need the same thing linked 10 times.

Edit: actually it makes more sense for V Giselle to be above V Bambi, or less Giselle just isn't stronger than Bambi, since Bambi could just power up and be stronger.
Click to expand...
well he differentiates them by mentioning blut differences and standard power rankings which have different answers so I wouldn't say the ranking applies universally across all forms
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
well he differentiates them by mentioning blut differences and standard power rankings which have different answer so I wouldn't say the ranking applies universally across all forms
Click to expand...
This differentiates just between blut and not blut. No implication of it being just base form. Plus the fact that Vollstandig is consistently an even amp among the Bambis, we have more reason to assume it applies across all forms.

Edit: A good analogy would be, if you gave two people Super Saiyan and it amped them 50x, then the person who's stronger in base is going to be stronger when they're both 50x stronger.
 
Last edited:
Arc7Kuroi said:
This differentiates just between blut and not blut. No implication of it being just base form. Plus the fact that Vollstandig is consistently an even amp among the Bambis, we have more reason to assume it applies across all forms.
Click to expand...
doesn't the same thing apply with blut? blut is more related with bankai which is a general boost compared to volstandig and despite that we got different rankings


edit : I'm not seeing anything that says volstandig is a universal amp like super saiyan
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
doesn't the same thing apply with blut? blut is more related with bankai which is a general boost compared to volstandig and despite that we got different rankings
Click to expand...
No because Blut has a baseline with a Bankai level amp, but we know that Blut can go beyond a Bankai level amp depending on the good a Quincy is with Blut. Hence why such things like "Blut Vene prodigies" exist as seen with Ichigo's mom.
 
that is true, even bankai can vary between 5x and 10x but is there anything suggesting they grant the same amps to everyone? (volstandig that is)
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
that is true, even bankai can vary between 5x and 10x but is there anything suggesting they grant the same amps to everyone? (volstandig that is)
Click to expand...
Bankai can vary yes but generally it has a concrete range right. So while there are certainly exceptions, those exceptions are normally pretty obvious and not the norm.

Yeah the Bambis are portrayed relative in base and Vollstandig.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Bankai can vary yes but generally it has a concrete range right. So while there are certainly exceptions, those exceptions are normally pretty obvious and not the norm.

Yeah the Bambis are portrayed relative in base and Vollstandig.
Click to expand...
I don't think that proves the amps are the same, you're relying on superiority for scaling and then using relativity to prove them which idk what you wanna use to say theyre relative


anyways the argument that the ranking exists in a general sense is disproven by the blut rankings, so its clearly not in general, now the remaining other argument to make is that the amps are the same but I'm skeptical to that because volstandig is a superior and more spammable version of letz still, and both of those techniques involved using the environment to amp yourself, we see candice's one pop out unintentionally thanks to the environment, if it is environmental reliant it is going to vary which defeats the point of them being the same amp

and it being something you can learn as stated in the earlier scan+ requiring control so as to not accidentally pop them out means its a skill based technique, makes me lean towards believing it would be like blut as you described earlier
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
I don't think that proves the amps are the same, you're relying on superiority for scaling and then using relativity to prove them which idk what you wanna use to say theyre relative


anyways the argument that the ranking exists in a general sense is disproven by the blut rankings, so its clearly not in general, now the remaining other argument to make is that the amps are the same but I'm skeptical to that because volstandig is a superior and more spammable version of letz still, and both of those techniques involved using the environment to amp yourself, we see candice's one pop out unintentionally thanks to the environment, if it is environmental reliant it is going to vary which defeats the point of them being the same amp

and it being something you can learn as stated in the earlier scan+ requiring control so as to not accidentally pop them out means its a skill based technique, makes me lean towards believing it would be like blut as you described earlier
Click to expand...
I disagree with a lot of your assertions, especially with them mattering to my claim, since they don't address my arguments, but I don't really care to debate about it, since either way they're in the same relative tier whether you think one is 5x stronger than the other or not.

If I ever get the time and motivation, maybe I'll put together a robust argument with scans and whatnot, until then we can agree to disagree.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I disagree with a lot of your assertions, especially with them mattering to my claim, since they don't address my arguments, but I don't really care to debate about it, since either way they're in the same relative tier whether you think one is 5x stronger than the other or not.

If I ever get the time and motivation, maybe I'll put together a robust argument with scans and whatnot, until then we can agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
that's fine but at least tell me which part do you think didn't matter to your claim?
 
Last edited:
I didnt say his statement excludes vollstandig, I said having different blut rankings disprove the notion that the base rankings reflect general power (aka saying x>y would mean x with bankai>y with bankai which is what you were proposing via referencing via the broader ranking)


and the environment+skill stuff is relevant because they are amp defining variables, can't propose the same amp for everyone when the boost is sourced from varying sources
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
I didnt say his statement excludes vollstandig, I said having different blut rankings disprove the notion that the base rankings reflect general power (aka saying x>y would mean x with bankai>y with bankai which is what you were proposing via referencing via the broader ranking)


and the environment+skill stuff is relevant because they are amp defining variables, can't propose the same amp for everyone when the boost is sourced from varying sources
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm aware of your stance (y)
 
Ebihara said:
99% of ANY bleach versus threads here..
Can they see them?
Can they interact with them?
Do they have resteince to soul bs?
Soul crush gg.

Hate bleach verus threads.
Click to expand...
Same, people really think Bleach characters stand a chance against Honkai which is sad.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I still disagree (y) but I'm content agreeing to disagree for the moment. Which you'll have to accept as well, since I'm too busy to give your response the attention it deserves.
Click to expand...
it's fine if you don't respond to it, I was merely explaining relevance
 
~400 PT ~ FKT Tosen ~ FKT Komamura's durability < TYBW Komamura's durability ~ Bambi's AP ~ Komamura's AP

aka Komamura can clash with Bambi who can harm him (aka AP relativity), and Komamura has good durability scaling. Truthfully, FKT Komamura's AP should scale to his durability given how the mechanics of spirit energy works for Shinigami (minus edge cases) in AP ~ durability relativity. But the above scaling chain doesn't rely on energy system scaling, so it's easier for people who don't know Bleach in and out to understand more easily.

Edit: I'm going to bed and got work, so if you got any more questions, hit up my message wall
 
Show me some love guys: 🥹😇

God of The End - [BLEACH][AMS]

Based on Yhwach.



Who’s next? What character you want me to make a song of next?
 
Last edited:
Ebihara said:
99% of ANY bleach versus threads here..
Can they see them?
Can they interact with them?
Do they have resteince to soul bs?
Soul crush gg.

Hate bleach verus threads.
Click to expand...
Yeah definitely. Bleach fans are sleeping on Naruto characters. Shinobis are capable of seeing souls:
Naruto saw his soul when Nagato was ripping it (Nagato can see it as well because he's the caster of jutsu) (can scale to other characters that met human path)
Totsuka Blade is stated to be a spiritual weapon and itachi, Orochimaru & both zetsus saw it without any problems
Choza saw dan's soul after casting Soul Transfer jutsu
Naruto saw Minato's soul, and Sasuke saw Itachi's soul after releasing edo Tensei (and other shinobis saw the souls of edos after releasing Edo Tensei)
Jinchurikis and Susanoo user can interact with souls:
Every jinchuriki and bijuu has NPI because of the accepted scaling of them to Naruto:
Naruto was able to touch his soul and had a lifting fight with nagato for taking back his soul (Nagato also hasn't any problems at interacting with them)
Susanoo is physical manifestation of user's chakra or soul, and it can wield & interact with spiritual weapons like totsuka Blade which hasn't any physical forms

Edit: there are a lot of more feats, but im sure this is fine
 
Last edited:
Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe said:
Yeah definitely. Bleach fans are sleeping on Naruto characters. Shinobis are capable of seeing souls:
Naruto saw his soul when Nagato was ripping it (Nagato can see it as well because he's the caster of jutsu) (can scale to other characters that met human path)
Totsuka Blade is stated to be a spiritual weapon and itachi, Orochimaru & both zetsus saw it without any problems
Choza saw dan's soul after casting Soul Transfer jutsu
Naruto saw Minato's soul, and Sasuke saw Itachi's soul after releasing edo Tensei (and other shinobis saw the souls of edos after releasing Edo Tensei)
Jinchurikis and Susanoo user can interact with souls:
Every jinchuriki and bijuu has NPI because of the accepted scaling of them to Naruto:
Naruto was able to touch his soul and had a lifting fight with nagato for taking back his soul (Nagato also hasn't any problems at interacting with them)
Susanoo is physical manifestation of user's chakra or soul, and it can wield & interact with spiritual weapons like totsuka Blade which hasn't any physical forms
Click to expand...
Just to play Devil's Advocate; is there anything that indicates that souls are normally invisible to people in Naruto? I don't think assuming default invisibility for souls or spiritual things makes sense for fictional settings where it should really be a case-by-case sort of thing.
 
Damage3245 said:
Just to play Devil's Advocate; is there anything that indicates that souls are normally invisible to people in Naruto? I don't think assuming default invisibility for souls or spiritual things makes sense for fictional settings where it should really be a case-by-case sort of thing.
Click to expand...
These people are shinobis who trained for decades using spiritual energy and combining it with energy from their body, so it's ok for them to see the souls
 
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