BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[OneBleachHurricane]

Did they finally read the damn doc?

Yes, while wearing a welding mask and being blindfolded with the screen turned off

 

[Arcker123]

If this was to me, I was just talking about how the reasoning contradicts itself, not whether their beliefs were accurate.

Both are kind of true though, it probably should be focused on

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll see you peeps on the flip side, if you need anything hit me up here: Tsé Ω#7892

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I’ll see you peeps on the flip side, if you need anything hit me up here: Tsé Ω#7892

Arc7Kuroi:

​

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Almighty still argued as some world creation hax despite the raws saying it wasn’t a part of the prime reio’s feat.

Now Maybe it took Soul King a billion years to make the worlds.

 

[Arcker123]

This is kind of annoying tbh, they have no response to arc disproving the almighty was used and every other scan states they were stabilized with reiryoku

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Best to just leave it at that. I just feel bad for IMade and Arc wasting their time.

 

[Ovy7]

and the novels mentioning the Soul King to be the one who regulates the "universal flow of souls" is also evidence that the stabilization involved is the Soul King stabilizing the flow of souls and the worlds are kept stable as a consequence

The statement that was literally called a lie on the very page of the novel it was made, it's the evidence?

I also don't get the reliance on The Almighty when Arc literally proved that the novels don't mention the Almighty as being what created the worlds in the first place, or what sustains them, not even what it would destroy them.

confusion

Edit:

Since the Soul King used the Almighty to reshape the world first, therefore it makes logical sense that Yhwach would use Almighty as well.

I'm so sorry for Arc rn. The dude went out of his way to buy the raw novels, find the passage, translate, and broke down for anyone to understand what it says, only for it to be completely ignored. . .

 

[Arcker123]

The statement that was literally called a lie on the very page of the novel it was made, it's the evidence?

I also don't get the reliance on The Almighty when Arc literally proved that the novels don't mention the Almighty as being what created the worlds in the first place, or what sustains them, not even what it would destroy them.

confusion

Imade brought up the fact it was a lie, but it they are saying he called it irrelevant

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

"Soul King having vast amount of reiryoku is unrelated to the feat of trying to destroy everything. I don't see why this was important. Or any other statements"

Energy used to perform every feat within the verse doesn’t matter. Nor does any other statement.

 

[Damage3245]

Imade brought up the fact it was a lie, but it they are saying he called it irrelevant

And other people have brought up that it is not a fact that it is a lie. Get over it.

 

[Arcker123]

It's stated to be a lie though

 

[Ovy7]

Imade brought up the fact it was a lie, but it they are saying he called it irrelevant

What IMade said that was irrelevant is the Quincies affecting the flow of souls. Hell, Duedate's comment is also about this exact same thing. But AKM's comment isn't about this, but about SK controlling the flow of souls.

I hope I don't need to explain what's wrong here.

 

[Arcker123]

What IMade said that was irrelevant is the Quincies affecting the flow of souls. Hell, Duedate's comment is also about this exact same thing. But AKM's comment isn't about this, but about SK controlling the flow of souls.

I hope I don't need to explain what's wrong here.

my mistake

 

[Ovy7]

my mistake

It's not your mistake, because said comment was literally made to sound like this, even tho in reality this wasn't the case. You can go in the thread and see what Duedate and IMade talked about, and see that it's the Quincies thing, not the statement from the novels about SK controlling the universal flow of souls.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm so sorry for Arc rn. The dude went out of his way to buy the raw novels, find the passage, translate, and broke down for anyone to understand what it says, only for it to be completely ignored. . .

I did warn him this is how things usually go down unfortunately.

 

[Nilverse]

I have some question, in the Third volume of CFYOW, is Hikone fought against kiyoraku? or, who fought him then?

 

[Arcker123]

What are the scans stating he used the almighty to create the realms (also side note, when has the almighty shown the power to create things)

 

[Ovy7]

What are the scans stating he used the almighty to create the realms (also side note, when has the almighty shown the power to create things)

The fan translation of CFYOW Vol 3 say Almighty, but as Arc demonstrated in his final response, the raw text doesn't have The Almighty in it, just an adjective for almighty/omnipotent power.

 

[Arcker123]

The fan translation of CFYOW Vol 3 say Almighty, but as Arc demonstrated in his final response, the raw text doesn't have The Almighty in it, just an adjective for almighty/omnipotent power.

Oh, something that can be debunked by reading arc's post....

 

[W0NDER3X]

Soul King having vast amount of reiryoku is unrelated to the feat of trying to destroy everything. I don't see why this was important. Or any other statements.

Someone call an ambulance. I might've hit my head too hard with this facepalm.

 

[Ovy7]

So, Arc is now banned.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Few hours ago yeah.

 

[Arcker123]

Unfortunate, has anything good come from this

 

[Ovy7]

RIP Arc7Kuroi

RIP good Bleach profiles too, probably. 2019-2021

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Yeah one of the few people who actually cared about making decent Bleach profiles is now banned. Great. Time to downgrade the entire verse to Tier 11. Might as well put all the pages in Jokes Battles or OC Battles instead since only the fanfiction of the clearly unbiased Mods is allowed for use anyway

 

[LordGinSama]

After reading the thread again:

Gonna respond here since no more comments are to be made on the downgrade thread. (This particular comment shouldn't have been made as it gives the opposing side an extra argument now.)

• I think stabilizing the worlds is not shown to be a proper 3-A feat or anywhere close to it going by the standards. The destruction upon Soul King's death is blatantly shown to be slow on panel with characters saying that the tremors have been going on forever and it's too small to notice.

This is inherently false and we're shown that in the Manga. The Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are both shown with extreme amounts of earthquakes, only The World of the Living received a small earthquake in comparison to the others. Also Yhwach clearly wasn't going to "blow it up" why would he want to destroy something he just wants to merge? You can merge something if it's gone if you destroyed it. Not to mention Mimihagi's entire existence should also disqualify any notion of the timeframe being that slow. Chapter 614 is where Reio is killed and we see immediate effects ranging from the Soul Society to The World of The Living. We know these characters were in the middle of a war as well, so why on earth would literally everyone be flipping out if the timeframe for the destruction was actually that long as it's being made out to be? No, everything else implies that the destruction of the Realms would be a quick process.

• We only see tremors on a few planets and that's it. This is not a one shot or immediate destruction which makes it unable to qualify for a 3-A rating. Duedate covered it pretty well in his response earlier in the thread:

So Dimensional tremors are now only planet's?

​

• It just goes to show how a seemingly universe destroying feat is not even close to universal in attack potency because of the mechanism involved, in spite of the implied end result.

The Mechanism involved has nothing to do with Hax, nor does it have to do with the Soul Cycle. The Soul Cycle is just a natural occurring phenomenon, Rei-O has nothing to do with the Soul Cycle. The timeframe has a maximum of a few minutes, and the stabilization is done via Reitasu (which scales to the combatants physical stats.)

• Obviously being a lynchpin is important to maintain the balance and provide overall stability, but it doesn't mean it automatically scales to the end result of what happens due to the imbalance caused by or without it. Sometimes a single faulty construction error resulting from a tiny nut and bolt causes the bridge to collapse.

False comparision to the greatest degree, a singularly tiny screw would never make a bridge collapse by itself, first and foremost. Secondly in the comparison of that and Rei-o's stability feat falls flat because unlike the Bridge analogy (which is wrong.) we know for a fact the timeframe can't be any longer than a few minutes, given what he stabilizes and how he does it (Reiatsu.) an incapacitated Yhwach was maintaining the Realms passively with only a small amount of his Reiatsu, and most of it was sealed off. He had no access to The Almighty yet he can still maintain the realms.

• Another issue was the quote from Yhwach where he highlights the flow of souls, and the novels mentioning the Soul King to be the one who regulates the "universal flow of souls" is also evidence that the stabilization involved is the Soul King stabilizing the flow of souls and the worlds are kept stable as a consequence. Imade tried to refute this point by saying it's completely irrelevant

No he didn't, that's either you lying or that you didn't read his arguments at all. His argument was that the Soul Cycle quote from the Novel was a lie, as it was stated to be just that. A lie, nothing more and nothing less. Yhwach highlighting the Konpaku is irrelevant, as we're shown and given statements about how Stabilization works (Reiatsu, again Ichigo doesn't have an Almighty nor can he manipulate the cycle of Souls yet he can maintain the realms himself. A incapacitated Yhwach while under several seals and without the usage of the Almighty is still able to maintain them as well.)

• I outright disagree with Almighty scaling to raw stats based on what has been presented in the thread. It's mainly fate hax +a few more abilities.

This again is false, The Almighty isn't just Fate hax and precog. The Almighty has shown the ability to utilize AP before, such as him blowing Ichibei into bits and him lifting the Quincy City with it. And unless we wanna suggest that there's just infinite futures in Bleach where Ichibei blows up for no good reason and random masses of land magically floating then this point is also moot.

• If your hax does not work unless you gain a sufficient amount of power to be able to use it, that's just one of the limitations in the usage of hax.

But it does also indeed prove that theres a level of Attack Potency to it, which is something you can't deny. A certain amount of strength is required for Yhwach to even use the Almighty, and even with that The Almighty can't make the impossible happen, all it does is it allows Yhwach to change any fate he sees in his future, his actions in the future need to be physically possible for him to actually Alter it. Otherwise I'm perfectly fine with upgrading The Almighty to Infinite futures and outright creation.

• That, in no way, means the hax scales to raw stats. Neither does the hax providing a stat boost is reason enough for it to scale one-to-one with base stats. That's neither here nor there.

Because they need to be physically capable of doing what they do in the future. For example, Yhwach can't just make a future where he fights someone like Reinhard and win, because it's not possible for Yhwach to do by any means. If the Almighty was just hax based then Yhwach would have merged the Relams instantly upon obtaining it after his fight with Ichibei.

• I also see an issue with the actual timeframe of the Soul King's splitting/creation feat where it is being assumed to be instantaneous because of the Almighty doing things instantly with what is fate manipulation.

Let me stop you right there, because the Almighty was never used for Rei-o's creation feat. He used almighty power, not as in his ability The Almighty. RAW's make this very clear so I'm not sure why it's even being brought up? And the creation was done the second the statement was made, there's nothing to argue against the timeframe. You clearly didn't read Arc's doc if you think this.

• We simply don't know enough about the feat.

We do, Reio and Yhwach maintain the Three Realms (not done via souls either.)

• We have no timeframe.

Going by the manga, a few minutes. Going for Reio's creation feat, it was done right then and there.

• We have no context of how he was going to do it. No mechanism explained.

We actually do, it's done via Reitasu (A dead Yhwach, Ginjo and Ichigo lack any sort of Almighty and or manipulation over the Soul Cycle to keep the balance, it's due to their large amounts of Reiatsu that allows for stability of the Realms.)

• Just a single statement that it happened using Almighty.

Again this is false and it's because you have a lack of understanding of the verse in question. The Almighty was never used for any of the feats, nor was this ever stated. Give me citation that says stabilization is done by THE Almighty, wait they don't exist.

• For all we know it could be the same slow chain reaction-esque process kind of like the tremors in the supposedly "universe destroying" instability feat. Or it could be a work of weird hax+range. We at least need some kind of context to properly evaluate the feat by which we can logically deduce that the Soul King is in fact able to one-shot the universe.

This is literally just a repeat of your timeframe argument but worded differently. The universal destruction would take place in a few minutes, Beerus and Champa didn't destroy their universe in the first clash for example but I dont care much for Dragon Ball. Point being that is you greatly blew up just how long the timeframe here is.

• Unfortunately, there is none, except for people trying to shoot for the highest possible interpretation because why not, that makes the character the highest tier after all.

I agree with the most part with such a statement but this is an issue regarding the tiering system itself rather than people going for the highest interpretation. It's a system like ours that allows for such a concept.

Which brings me to a related point, that being Yhwach's world reshaping feat and his quest to undo what the Soul King did. Since the Soul King used the Almighty to reshape the world first, therefore it makes logical sense that Yhwach would use Almighty as well.

Read the first half of this argument, Rei-o did not use The Almighty to create the Realms. This is an example of blatant regurgitated misinformation due to a inherent lack of understanding.

It also doesn't help that his claim and flaring up of energy also involves a bunch of unknown factors.

That enegry was his Reiatsu, which is what is used to scale a character physical stats in the verse.

Soul King having vast amount of reiryoku is unrelated to the feat of trying to destroy everything. I don't see why this was important. Or any other statements.

Are you seriously saying that? You know the verses enegry system that makes them scale physically? It's absolutely related, you just aren't knowledgeable enough regarding Bleach's verse mechanics (not a rude comment either, it's a general observation that most agree with.) for future reference, don't dismiss key arguments as unrelated simply because you failed to understand why it was brought up. Anyway I'm done with this, not gonna address the rest of your argument since it's clear you didn't read the doc, and it's also abundantly clear that you can't grasp the mechanics of the verse.

 

[W0NDER3X]

So, shouldn't there be a rule, which says that only knowledgeable members should be allowed to participate in those kind of threads? Just because you're a mod does not mean you're knowledgeable on every verse/every subject.
I mean, without such rule I don't know what this fuss is all about. They'll do whatever they've planned for the verse. Case closed.

 

[AppleLord]

So, Arc is now banned.

Why? So he doesn’t reply to the thread anymore? Or did he wrote some comment that was deleted?

 

[LordGinSama]

And for the record, I'm not scared of calling out the staff members here on inherent bull-shit subjects. They'll threaten me with a ban or a warning or whatever, but the evidence is there. They've quite literally ignored or simply skimmed through Arc's doc (which is genuinely sickening, as he spent extensive time writing it. As much as I dislike the opposing side I still read their arguments as opposed to ignoring them.)





Oh also back in my day banning a user who you were currently in the middle of a debate with was seen as the ultimate act of cowardice.

 

[AKUTO123]

So, shouldn't there be a rule, which says that only knowledgeable members should be allowed to participate in those kind of threads? Just because you're a mod does not mean you're knowledgeable on every verse/every subject.
I mean, without such rule I don't know what this fuss is all about. They'll do whatever they've planned for the verse. Case closed.

Things don't work like that here, whatever the staff wants, it happens. it does not matter whether they are knowledgeable or honest, it is enough if they are unanimous, they determine the wrong right

 

[AppleLord]

Evil may have won this battle, but it won’t win the war. Many will fall but it won’t be the end.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

What is even the point of trying to argue at this point if the "reasonable" mods clearly have already made up their minds before they even made the thread. At this point it is like trying to explain logic to a brick wall.

This pathetic excuse of a debate is just happening to make the thread seem "fair" (even thought it clearly isn't since only a few users, mostly mods are allowed to comment)

 

[AppleLord]

 

[Damage3245]

Oh also back in my day banning a user who you were currently in the middle of a debate with was seen as the ultimate act of cowardice.

Nobody cares. Arc7 was reported weeks ago and was allowed to remain here for as long as he did because he had arguments to make on the CRT. The argument phase of the CRT is over, so there was no reason to delay his punishment.

Trying to portray this as banning Arc7 because of being in a debate with him is ignorance.

 

[AKUTO123]

What is even the point of trying to argue at this point if the "reasonable" mods clearly have already made up their minds before they even made the thread. At this point it is like trying to explain logic to a brick wall.

This pathetic excuse of a debate is just happening to make the thread seem "fair" (even thought it clearly isn't since only a few users, mostly mods are allowed to comment)

we are now trying to prove that an apple is an apple. But the people on the other side say it is a plastic ball and even if we present 1000 arguments that it is an apple, they say no, it is not an apple, why do we tire ourselves in vain?

 

[LordGinSama]

Just ignore it, worse comes to worse they'll downgrade Bleach to 6-A and they'll loose credibility.



At the end of the day the knowledgeable fans of the verse know what arguments were objectively right.



Also brb gonna downgrade that stupid ******* Lama from Pokemon since he got yeeted by a meteorite or the time he got zapped by a ******* electric rat. That's not an anti feat, nor is it a case of PIS, but an arrow that was made to be a weakness, fired by a character with an ability to counter Yhwach's Almighty now counts as a solid anti feat.

 

[AKUTO123]

who also volunteers to open CRT for bleach tier 11. staff will accept if no one is volunteer I can prepare a crt

 

[Damage3245]

who also volunteers to open CRT for bleach tier 11. staff will accept if no one is volunteer I can prepare a crt

We're not allowing trolling on here. Your post on the staff-only thread which is nothing but a troll is bad enough. Keeping it up will get you reported.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Why? So he doesn’t reply to the thread anymore? Or did he wrote some comment that was deleted?

He wrote some insulting shit apparently. I only saw one of them, though.

Still, as much as I love this wiki, but I feel like my respect for it has tanked quite ******* alot. All this nuisance and arc writing a ******* religion of his own, all of it was for nothing it seems. At least let him stay until the downgrade thread FULLY finishes. Not just "oh he gave his argument, fetus delete him."

I'm genuinely sad for Arc.