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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Manga>anything else.

Anime is removing and adding stuff , so that's it's own version of the events and so a different continuity. So far, not enough have changed to do much about it.

If anything majorly differ, there should be anime only profiles.
 
Naeblis495 said:
Manga>anything else.

Anime is removing and adding stuff , so that's it's own version of the events and so a different continuity. So far, not enough have changed to do much about it.

If anything majorly differ, there should be anime only profiles.
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That makes sense

But you don't think new anime scenes can be used on manga profiles as long as it isn't contradictory?
 
Purgy said:
Sure, as long as it's not directly contradicting the manga but expanding upon it then it's fair to use in my opinion
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I also think it's logical, starting from the point that the anime's author himself stated that he would add information in dialogues/fights
 
Purgy misrepresenting Kubo's involvement in the anime and on some weird pre copium for an anime downgrade that doesn't exist 🗿 we shall cross the bridge if we get to it
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Purgy misrepresenting Kubo's involvement in the anime and on some weird pre copium for an anime downgrade that doesn't exist 🗿 we shall cross the bridge if we get to it
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You're misrepresenting my posts 🗿

So you're saying we should flip-flop our stance on the canonicity of the anime depending on if it makes characters weaker or stronger instead of just making a resolute decision before it happens? That doesn't seem to make much sense, we should preferably decide before it happens so as not to seem hyprocritical when it does.
 
Purgy said:
You're misrepresenting my posts 🗿

So you're saying we should flip-flop our stance on the canonicity of the anime depending on if it makes characters weaker or stronger instead of just making a resolute decision before it happens? That doesn't seem to make much sense, we should preferably decide before it happens so as not to seem hyprocritical when it does.
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I believe that we will only have an answer to this question when the entire arc is adapted.
 
Purgy said:
You're misrepresenting my posts 🗿

So you're saying we should flip-flop our stance on the canonicity of the anime depending on if it makes characters weaker or stronger instead of just making a resolute decision before it happens? That doesn't seem to make much sense, we should preferably decide before it happens so as not to seem hyprocritical when it does.
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No I'm saying there is no one glove fits all for determining which takes precedence between mediums. You keep saying manga is always more canon than anime, but that is just not inherently true whatsoever. It depends on the case we are looking at. If Kubo decides he wants to entirely change the Bleach ending (I really doubt he will, but hypothetically), then his most recent version would best reflect his vision. And in that case the new anime ending would be more canon.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No I'm saying there is no one glove fits all for determining which takes precedence between mediums. You keep saying manga is always more canon than anime, but that is just not inherently true whatsoever. It depends on the case we are looking at. If Kubo decides he wants to entirely change the Bleach ending (I really doubt he will, but hypothetically), then his most recent version would best reflect his vision. And in that case the new anime ending would be more canon.
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I admit that an anime could in theory be more canon than the manga it's based on, but in 99.999% of cases this isn't true, I don't know of a single manga that was considered secondary to an anime adapted from it, do you?
 
Purgy said:
That makes sense

But you don't think new anime scenes can be used on manga profiles as long as it isn't contradictory?
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Personally no i don't.
New feats and abilities that are anime exclusives shouldn't be used for the manga.

The best i would use the anime for manga material would be timeframes for some events.

Edit : I don't care wichever we end up considering as more canon. My point is that they should be kept separated, because they are different things.
 
Purgy said:
I admit that an anime could in theory be more canon than the manga it's based on, but in 99.999% of cases this isn't true, I don't know of a single manga that was considered secondary to an anime adapted from it, do you?
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I’m sure a similar case exists. I don’t care to search for it, I don’t scale a lot outside Bleach.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Fairy Tail

Hiro said so many times in his Volume QnAs that the anime contains further information and scenes to explain loopholes and off-panel fights or discussions in the manga.
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That's not what Arc's arguing though, neither of us have an issue with the Bleach anime being used to clarify things or expand on fights, Arc wants to pretty much rely entirely on the anime and consider that as the primary canon and Kubo's true work, Fairy Tail is nothing like that, the anime isn't more canon than the manga at all nor is it treated as such here.
 
Purgy said:
That's not what Arc's arguing though, neither of us have an issue with the Bleach anime being used to clarify things or expand on fights, Arc wants to pretty much rely entirely on the anime and consider that as the primary canon and Kubo's true work, Fairy Tail is nothing like that, the anime isn't more canon than the manga at all nor is it treated as such here.
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No, I’m saying if anime retcons a scene, we go with the anime. Like if the anime changes up some of the later fights, we go with the anime version.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No, I’m saying if anime retcons a scene, we go with the anime. Like if the anime changes up some of the later fights, we go with the anime version.
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Which is what I just said 😐

You want to consider the anime as more canon than the manga in regards to TYBW as you've said many, many times recently
Arc7Kuroi said:
That kind of argumentation is nonsensical. Mangaka have editors and staff that revise their work. So they don’t even inherently write every single word of their own manga. In that same vein you cannot prove they wrote every single word in their own original manga. With how much amount of statements and evidence we have that Kubo is involving himself in every aspect of the TYBW anime, especially the script writing, the anime should be considered just as canon, if not more so because it will more accurately reflect Kubo’s current vision.
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Arc7Kuroi said:
1 yes
2 Kubo’s latest work > older work
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Arc7Kuroi said:
I believe so

Kubo himself has repeatedly stated his extreme involvement in production. With how involved he is, the anime should be taken as the definitive telling of the TYBW. I doubt any contradictions will arise between the two, rather it seems Kubo is just adding and further contextualizing stuff, not retconning anything. But considering his most up to date telling/viewpoint/opinion on the TYBW will be what the anime portrays, I think we should prioritize the anime. Although again, I don’t think Kubo is gonna retcon anything, more like just add new content. He was pretty adamant on the stuff he drew and wrote originally being what he wanted to draw and write back in the day.
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Arc7Kuroi said:
Difference here is that Kubo is the one writing the scripts that distinction doesn’t exist here. Kubo isn’t doing the direct animating but Kubo is still in charge of making all the executive story decisions. The anime very much can be a higher canon, let’s say Kubo does decide to change something in the anime because he didn’t like how it was portrayed in the manga, the anime adaptation of his vision would be the higher canonicity as it better reflects Kubo’s vision. Just because it’s anime doesn’t mean its inherently a lesser canon.

Those two instances aren’t comparable. Oda isn’t nearly as involved in the OP anime as Kubo. If a scene is changed in the anime from manga it would have been changed because Kubo himself greenlit the change.

I never made such an objective claim 🗿 I just said I doubt he will retcon anything, hence me using phrases like “I think” or “I don’t think”, a very clear indication of my speculative opinion 🗿
Click to expand...
 
Purgy said:
Which is what I just said 😐

You want to consider the anime as more canon than the manga in regards to TYBW as you've said many, many times recently
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Yes as in Kubo’s newest rendition of a fight or a scene > his older rendition 🗿 I’ve said that ad nauseam
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes as in Kubo’s newest rendition of a fight or a scene > his older rendition 🗿 I’ve said that ad nauseam
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Yes, so as I said, IMade's Fairy Tail comparison isn't comparable to that, not once was the Fairy Tail anime treated as a higher canon than the manga, nor did Hiro Mashima come out and say that the anime reflected his vision more than the manga and that it should take priority for example.

The TYBW anime adding things, extending fight scenes and showing new abilities is fine, retroactively changing the outcome of fights or crucial points in the plot etc isn't and shouldn't be used in my opinion.

We already discussed this so I know what your stance is, I'm just pointing out that the Fairy Tail example isn't comparable
 
Aernasilver said:
I don’t know why you’re so against the anime being primarily canon when Kubo himself said he is involved in every step of the process.
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I pretty much already answered that
Purgy said:
Because being a supervisor of something isn't comparable to being the literal creator, writer and artist of something, at the end of the day Kubo isn't the director or producer of the anime, he's literally not even listed as one of the core staff for it on the TYBW Anime website.

Kubo has entire control over the manga, the same cannot be said for the anime at all as there's like four or five different people who each have more control over it than he does, he's pretty much just an advisor who's input and ideas strongly influence the anime's direction, but he doesn't have the control to just do whatever he wants and supersede the director and writer, I mean, he literally states in the interview that he sends ideas to the anime staff and hopes they make good use of it, that's completely indicative of the fact that he's not running the show.
Click to expand...
 
I mean he does supersede the Director though when it comes to the story. How else would we get new contents? The Director will obviously have to ask him for it.

Also cutting content would also have to be decided by Kubo too. We all know when it comes to anything Bleach Kubo is stern about it.
 
Aernasilver said:
I mean he does supersede the Director though when it comes to the story. How else would we get new contents? The Director will obviously have to ask him for it.

Also cutting content would also have to be decided by Kubo too. We all know when it comes to anything Bleach Kubo is stern about it.
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Kubo gives them ideas (stated in his interview) and the director/other staff decide if they're going to include it...this is why I said Kubo is essentially just a strong advisor, having a lot of sway in the direction the anime takes but at the end it's still up to the director and other staff.

Kubo doesn't need to give someone ideas and hope they incorporate it for the manga, he just has to write and draw it himself as he's literally the author, this is why the anime will always be a lower canon in my opinion as the manga is Kubo in complete control and the anime is Kubo in very questionable control.
 
Sincerely? I believe that in addition to extending some fights, showing certain bankais (maybe) the main thing that Kubo will change will be the final fight with Yhwach and Ishida's arrow. I believe that everything else won't see lane changes just content additions in fights. Apart from the ending that I believe adapts the novel about Rukia and Renji's wedding
 
I think that if something that contradict the manga will pop up it either will be explained in the anime (so we can use it) or Kubo will tell us it in the Q&A, but I don’t think it will ever happen.but if it is a bit random and quick, we should be careful and maybe wait to use it.
 
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Arc7Kuroi said:
Ummmmm Yamamoto vs SPSM Naruto might be interesting if you use the planetary meta for both.




conceptual Ryuo will based haki dura neg speed blitz gg
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Haki isn't durability negation. It just attacks your internals. You have to prove it can harm uryu's internals
 
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