Bakugou vs Chelshia

[Kingofwolves999]

Also we're past grace, and all arguments for Chelshia have been addressed several times. We just got stuck on the skill argument for Bakugo, which didn't even matter in the long run because he wins with his other advantages anyway.

 

[Moritzva]

Mobility was debunked, Intelligence was debunked, Range was mostly debunked (they both prefer to stay in melee, anyways), she has AP and won't be one-shotted by anything he has, 'linear' describes Bakugou to the T, and Chel has several other abilities Bakugou has no counter for, such as nigh invulnerability with the chest transformation and similar.

We never really hit grace in the first place. Multiple people switched sides.

 

[Jackythejack]

I'll be honest I don't know the vote count

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The point is. If it's in close range, Bakugo gets absolutely desimated in terms of combat. So all Chelshia needs is to pressure him for a moment as he gets close, then keep the fight in CQC where his mobility is useless and his combat capabilities are far weaker than Chel's.

As for the skill overall, being able to use a good talent is not a good skill feat.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

@Moritzva We did hit grace Zark was the only one who switched sides and it was already 6-3 then someone else voted over 24 hours ago.

Howitzer oneshots people on his level so Chel gets oneshot, she's at the AP disadvantage without berserker and takes double damage, he outranges and will abuse it against dangerous opponents like Uraraka and AM, has superior mobility, and her chest form prevents her from attacking or movinng the very simple opening that is when she turns back can be exploited. When did you debunk intelligence all you did was try to debunk his skill

@Fire How are his combat abilities far weaker than Chel all her showings were proven to not be that impressive since it was just her fighting people who spam one attack or people without good combative showings like random magic. I hope you realise he can still dodge in close range right?

Yes using an ability in an effective manner is skill taht's like saying someone with good control over flames isn't skilled with their ability

 

[Jackythejack]

Current voting is 9-4 but considering there is still an argument going on (and frankly some points being debunked), some votes were likely invalidated, and even if they weren't a match can't be added if there's still open debate.

Is Howitzer something he just automatically pulls out? Uses right away? Does it take time to charge? One shoting someone who's 1 tons is likely High 8-C

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The Howitzer is somethings he pulls out on people he can't put down and is willing to go all out on (so he wouldn't use it in training for example). His Howitzer takes a bit of charge up but he charges it while flying and spinning towards the opponent then he unleahses the blast. There's probably a gif on his page.

 

[Jackythejack]

And he uses this in his first key? That probably is High 8-C though-

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah he first used it in like chapter 40 something and his first key covers up to like chapter 90

 

[Jackythejack]

Also I was told that one shots aren't equalized across verses. RWBY has a weird thing where they get oneshot by something not overpoweringly strong. Perhaps that's only really relevant for MHA characters?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

If a character displays they can oneshot a character of a certain level then it can be applied in Vs debates. That's what a staff member told me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@12

Bakugo has no feats of CQC, that's why.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If a character displays they can oneshot a character of a certain level then it can be applied in Vs debates. That's what a staff member told me.

That is usually true yes.

 

[Jackythejack]

If a character displays they can oneshot a character of a certain level then it can be applied in Vs debates. That's what a staff member told me.

Mori just told me this is wrong so I have no idea.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

He has feats of countering people attacking him from behind, dodging around the league of villains, dodging Kirishima in CQC repeatedly and stomping Deku who knew all his moves simply because he altered his fighting style.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Neither mobility nor intelligence were debunked. In fact, I debunked the reasoning for Chelshia being even remotely comparable in terms of mobility with videos and manga panels. No one even attempted to refute those showings of mobility being better than Chelshia's.

Bakugo is smarter than Chel, would like to see any evidence that he isn't. Debate his skill all you want, but Bakugo is one of the smartest kids in his class, and has shown great battle tactics and planning while mid fight, such as when he analyzed the weakness in Kirishima's hardening or deduced Tokoyami's weakness. Chelshia literally just dodges and punches, so I would love to see some intelligence feats from her if any exist.

Chel has worse showings than Bakugo in every single category. She has AP as an advantage and that is it. Her invincibility is terrible as it makes her unable to attack or move, and all her other attacks are easy to dodge. Bakugo blows her up easily.

Still waiting on skill feats for Chel. I debunked all the ones that have shown up, so bring some new ones if you have them.

@Fire Chel is worse at close quarters than Bakugo, and an explosion from him will blow her away. She isn't pressuring anything with her awful mobility and one directional attacks.

Bakugo vs Kirishima is a better showing of CQC than Chel's entire game.

 

[Jackythejack]

Bakugo VS Kirishima? You're referring to during the sports festival? That has like no impressive showings from either of them, however. Just a bunch of simple punches and kicks, and Chel's got more going for her than just that.

How hard are Bakuguo's attacks to dodge? I doubt they can be that bad, though specially if he prefers CQC or something along those lines.

Also I'd argue her fight with Bernadine was also a decent sign of skill but what do I know I'm not some apparent skill guru like the rest of y'all.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

He asked for feats of Bakugou in CQC and I provided Bakugou dodging someone who he couldn't even make flinch repeatedly while attacking back.

His attacks can cover up to 30 meters and it'll be harder when he does things like grab her, get behind her, blind her etc

Could you provide the fight or anything that suggests Bernadine was really skilled you gave stuff befire but if you don't want tpo now it's fine.

 

[Jackythejack]

https://youtu.be/HnMY-3KUg-E

Fight starts at 37:50. Just saying it's a lot harder than half the other fights in the game and you have to worry about quite a bit of you want to win so I'd argue it's a good showing

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

That boss has a simple pattern the hardest thing is number of attacks to avoid

 

[Jackythejack]

Sure doesn't feel that simple when playing the game

At the very least it shows that Chelshia can handle quite a bit of things, including attacks coming from all different kinds of places. Two of the heads and one actual person

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah she can handle attacks from multiple directions but both patterns are simple. The boss itself launches 3 projectiles and can interrupted, when done it goes up drops some projectiles then lands with a shockwave and the heads shoot fire wjile floatong from side to side.

 

[Sora_and_buff_riku]

Is this what you actually call skill ? A hard platformer level ? I guess it can be considered a skill at dodging.

 

[Jackythejack]

I'm a bit busy at the moment while I try to do other things. That was all I could link. No need to sound rude.

 

[Moritzva]

Is this what you actually call skill ? A hard platformer level ? I guess it can be considered a skill at dodging.

When judging skill feats, one does need to consider the media given. Naturally, in 2-D games, you can't expect an absurd amount of visual feats simply due to the lack of mechanics and capability to do so. In anime, you have a ton of potential for visual feats. Books, manga, etc all lay somewhere in between. For the lower end, it's best to look at the context of those feats to see what they represent, rather than the pure gameplay mechanics.

(Otherwise, Ness is negatively skilled via only being able to fight in a turn-based RPG, hah.)

 

[Moritzva]

If a character displays they can oneshot a character of a certain level then it can be applied in Vs debates. That's what a staff member told me.

That is usually true yes.

This isn't actually totally true. Read One-Shot.

 

[Andytrenom]

If in canon someone one shots a character stronger than X (or presumably equal to X), then he will be assumed to one shot X as well. The 7.5x rule is a very generalized situation which doesn't assume the characters are scaling far above or below their respective ratings, it doesn't tell you to ignore basic logic like "if you can one shot someone this strong, you can also one shot someone equally strong or weaker"

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean then that move should probably be restricted because it certainly sounds like it's at least a higher tier.

Or its a stomp. Pick your poison on that I suppose.

 

[Moritzva]

If in canon someone one shots a character stronger than X (or presumably equal to X), then he will be assumed to one shot X as well. The 7.5x rule is a very generalized situation which doesn't assume the characters are scaling far above or below their respective ratings, it doesn't tell you to ignore basic logic like "if you can one shot someone this strong, you can also one shot someone equally strong or weaker"

The problem with this as a base assumption is that one-shots aren't exactly equal across all verses, and can be subject to inconsistencies and PIS. At the end of the day, if Bakugou scales above 8-C enough to one-shot...? Then he's High 8-C.

It's utterly ridiculous to bypass tiering entirely and just cheat around the rules. Brackets have had this problem forever, where people would attempt to AP stomp with this fallacious argument, when the very point of keeping a match within a certain tier is to limit one-shots.

We don't grant tier jumps via one-shotting. The same logic applies to matches.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Bump Bakugou is building level+ now.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Chelshia is worse than Bakugo in every category except AP. She loses this fight handedly, and grace has been over for weeks with all arguments having been addressed several times.

Can a mod close this thread and add this to their profiles?

 

[GoCommitDi]

Chelshia is worse than Bakugo in every category except AP. She loses this fight handedly, and grace has been over for weeks with all arguments having been addressed several times.
Can a mod close this thread and add this to their profiles?

I've added this to both profiles, someone needs to close this though

 

[Jackythejack]

This really shouldn't have been added. There was still argument going on. The thread just kinda died and y'all decided to streamline it being added

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh also you didn't get seven votes after mori debunked some reasonings so I mean, yeah, this really shouldn't have been added because Mori did a good debunk

 

[Buttersamuri]

To be fair. Argument still going on doesn't exactly stop it from being added after grace is hit. Plenty of threads end with arguments still going on long after it has ended. Albeit, I also think a rematch thread would be best since Chel has faced quite a few differences in threads, plus the hole berserker mode probably being its own key.

 

[Sora_and_buff_riku]

I mean you can do a rematch I think since both characters have changed since this since Bakugo has a higher AP and Chelshia can't turn Berserk in a fight anymore.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Oh also you didn't get seven votes after mori debunked some reasonings so I mean, yeah, this really shouldn't have been added because Mori did a good debunk

Mori didn't really debunk that Bakugou was more skilled than her, was amarter than her, has better mobility, superior range and stamina. Her only advantage is AP and dura.

 

[Buttersamuri]

It's not yet gone through on the berserker mode thing. That's still in the discussion (or really lack of. Not many have commented there)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There was not a single thing Mori debunked about Bakugo. He attempted to disprove everything I said about Bakugo, and I retorted every time that he was either wrong, or that it didn't even matter, because Chel is inferior to Bakugo in every category on a rudimentary level.

 

[Jackythejack]

Well we don't know yet because the berserker thread sorta hit a big fat wall