GimmyJibbsJr
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- #81
Alrighty. Looks like things are absolutely confirmed now.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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Bakugan: Dragonoid's Hax/Ability Revision Thread (Part 2)
- Thread starter GimmyJibbsJr
- Start date
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Wait why wouldnt it be Hax Copy again? (sorry, had to do other stuff so im seeing this now)
Arent the abilities applied to the user instead of the opponent when this move is used? I can see why its cancellation since it prevents the opponents from using their abilities but the effects don't stop entirely. The effects just go to the user who stole the move.
And yeah its basically a Me-First kind of move only without pre-cog and the ability only needs to be activated once. From then on, moves from the opponent get stolen (unless someone shuts the ability off and has to make the user activate the ability all over again).
Arent the abilities applied to the user instead of the opponent when this move is used? I can see why its cancellation since it prevents the opponents from using their abilities but the effects don't stop entirely. The effects just go to the user who stole the move.
And yeah its basically a Me-First kind of move only without pre-cog and the ability only needs to be activated once. From then on, moves from the opponent get stolen (unless someone shuts the ability off and has to make the user activate the ability all over again).
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So did anyone edit Drago's file?
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #84
No, I don't think so. I think it was locked up again after Dragontime finished Dharak and left.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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I'll be able to work on edits again later in the afternoon. At school right now,
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Here's an image for Aeroblitz.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #87
I don't see the image, sadly.
Aside from Drago, I found two good Linehalt images.
Base form
With Forbidden Power
Aside from Drago, I found two good Linehalt images.
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It's this:
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #89
Ah, yeah, that's a good picture.
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Still waiting for an answer to my question 
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #91
My guess is that it is super broken because it is literally a case of "anything you can do I can do better "so long as Drago moves first/is faster.
Evil Copy is broke because is literally just makes Drago a superior version of the foe, and therefore he'd never concievably lose so long as Evil Copy was used before the enemy makes a move.
It is too broken for Vs Debating lmaooooooooo
Evil Copy is broke because is literally just makes Drago a superior version of the foe, and therefore he'd never concievably lose so long as Evil Copy was used before the enemy makes a move.
It is too broken for Vs Debating lmaooooooooo
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Well, first things first, let me greatly apologize for bringing this back up because I only want to get to the bottom of this and I wasnt here at the moment we last discussed this as I had things to do, so there are still things toward these abilities I would like to discuss that I didnt get a chance to address. So if anyone is to blame for restarting this, its me.
Anyways, as far as Atomic Brave goes, I dont even think its Hax copying. The user is just having the opponents abilities apply to them instead of the opponent, so they don't need to copy it. In fact, I think there is something that people are getting a bit confused about. Atomic Brave, from what I know, temporarily gives you an opponents ability. It just has the opponents hax apply to the user of Atomic Brave, allowing the user to use it back on them and thats it. Basically, no hax is being stolen its just its effects that are taken. The opponent can still activate their abilities it just won't benefit them at all, only the user. For example:
Drago fights, em say, Goku. And Goku tries to use a Kamehameha wave on Drago. But because of Atomic Brave, Goku's Kamehameha wave doesnt even activate as it will instantly go to Drago. Drago temporarily gains the move, uses it back on Goku and Goku regains the move. And its rinse and repeat. The moment Drago uses it, Goku will be able to activate it again. It will only just keep going back to Drago. Basically, Atomic Brave only lets the user keep an opponents move until they themselves use it back and then they lose it. They don't keep it permanently.
And its automatic as you only need to use it once and from then on, any hax the opponent tries activating will be instantly given to the user of Atomic Brave so that the opponent doesnt even activate it at all. So its not a matter of speed, Drago just has to activate the ability in time before getting beaten/stomped. However, from what I can think of, we can place 2 limits on it.
For one, anyone who has a type of evolution hax or transformation that makes them a different kind of being will break the effects since Atomic Brave specifically targets one target and one target only. Aka, when Clayf used it on Gorem, who then evolved into Hammer Gorem, the ability broke because it only worked on Gorem, not Hammer Gorem (Tho, this doesnt mean the ability can't be activated again to work a second time). Plus, since we've only ever seen Clayf use it on one opponent, theres no reason to suggest it can work on a team of combatants, and the same thing will apply to Drago and the others too. And another limit is that Atomic Brave will have no effect on higher tier beings, just so we can prevent Drago from automatically stealing hax from 2-A's and anyone from Tier 1.
And as for Evil Copy, its the same thing. However, I think we can chalk Evil Copy to be a combinatation of both Statistics Amplification and Power Mimicry since the user is able to become a stronger version of what it transforms into (plus Contestir was able to copy Dragos power despite being absolute fodder compared to him). And if you want an even better example, imagine Evil Copy being something like Ditto from Pokemon. So if the opponent is only slighty/decently stronger than the user, Evil Copy should still work. But regardless, Evil Copy will have no effect towards characters of higher tiers so Drago isnt turning into any decently strong 2-B's, 2-A's or anyone from Tier 1. Plus, another weakness is that Evil Copy cannot copy an opponents weaponry like Battle Gear so via Verse Equalization Evil Copy cannot copy weapons or anything that isnt naturally apart of the opponents being (like a Shinigami's Zanpakuto or Thors Hammer for example). And if the user of Evil Copy even tries to copy those things, then the user will actually transform back into their original form automatically.
Does this clear things up a bit?
Anyways, as far as Atomic Brave goes, I dont even think its Hax copying. The user is just having the opponents abilities apply to them instead of the opponent, so they don't need to copy it. In fact, I think there is something that people are getting a bit confused about. Atomic Brave, from what I know, temporarily gives you an opponents ability. It just has the opponents hax apply to the user of Atomic Brave, allowing the user to use it back on them and thats it. Basically, no hax is being stolen its just its effects that are taken. The opponent can still activate their abilities it just won't benefit them at all, only the user. For example:
Drago fights, em say, Goku. And Goku tries to use a Kamehameha wave on Drago. But because of Atomic Brave, Goku's Kamehameha wave doesnt even activate as it will instantly go to Drago. Drago temporarily gains the move, uses it back on Goku and Goku regains the move. And its rinse and repeat. The moment Drago uses it, Goku will be able to activate it again. It will only just keep going back to Drago. Basically, Atomic Brave only lets the user keep an opponents move until they themselves use it back and then they lose it. They don't keep it permanently.
And its automatic as you only need to use it once and from then on, any hax the opponent tries activating will be instantly given to the user of Atomic Brave so that the opponent doesnt even activate it at all. So its not a matter of speed, Drago just has to activate the ability in time before getting beaten/stomped. However, from what I can think of, we can place 2 limits on it.
For one, anyone who has a type of evolution hax or transformation that makes them a different kind of being will break the effects since Atomic Brave specifically targets one target and one target only. Aka, when Clayf used it on Gorem, who then evolved into Hammer Gorem, the ability broke because it only worked on Gorem, not Hammer Gorem (Tho, this doesnt mean the ability can't be activated again to work a second time). Plus, since we've only ever seen Clayf use it on one opponent, theres no reason to suggest it can work on a team of combatants, and the same thing will apply to Drago and the others too. And another limit is that Atomic Brave will have no effect on higher tier beings, just so we can prevent Drago from automatically stealing hax from 2-A's and anyone from Tier 1.
And as for Evil Copy, its the same thing. However, I think we can chalk Evil Copy to be a combinatation of both Statistics Amplification and Power Mimicry since the user is able to become a stronger version of what it transforms into (plus Contestir was able to copy Dragos power despite being absolute fodder compared to him). And if you want an even better example, imagine Evil Copy being something like Ditto from Pokemon. So if the opponent is only slighty/decently stronger than the user, Evil Copy should still work. But regardless, Evil Copy will have no effect towards characters of higher tiers so Drago isnt turning into any decently strong 2-B's, 2-A's or anyone from Tier 1. Plus, another weakness is that Evil Copy cannot copy an opponents weaponry like Battle Gear so via Verse Equalization Evil Copy cannot copy weapons or anything that isnt naturally apart of the opponents being (like a Shinigami's Zanpakuto or Thors Hammer for example). And if the user of Evil Copy even tries to copy those things, then the user will actually transform back into their original form automatically.
Does this clear things up a bit?
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Bump
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- #94
I mean, either of those would still allow Drago to utterly dominate his own tier, making versus matches involving up to five of his forms nearly impossible to make fair Vs debates for.
And the weaknesses of those abilities aren't important for Drago because of the following.
1. Drago can just use Atomic Brave again and again if he needs to, given that we've seen him spam the same abilities over and over again in battle. So transforming would only be a temporary solution. This would mean that the foe would never be able to do anything other then basic attacks limited to non-specific physical strikes and non-specific ranged strikes. If physical strikes, Drago can just set up that barrier that not only increases his power, but he also lowers the foe's power with every strike they make on the barrier. As for ranged attack that a not specific, Drago can still just nullify, tank or dodge.
2. For Evil Copy, he can literally just do the same thing as Atomic Brave. Spam it if he needs to, since we know he can and he already understands the weakness of the move since it was used on him in the past. If he loses it, then he can just set it up again and still be suprerior once more. And besides, from what I've heard, Drago is one of the stronger 2-C characters right now, meaning that he'll likely already be stronger.
So essentially, the "weaknesses" of these abilities are non-existent because Drago can spam them should he need to until the inevitably work, and then he really just wouldn't lose.
And as for Atomic Brave, to my knowledge, the move is not given back to the original owner in the way that you think. It still is applying to and is applicable to the person who copied it, and it stays with them. At least, that is how it is treated in the anime when Clayf becomes superior, and even after evolving Clayf still had those buffs he got from Gorem, only losing them because he became Hammer Gorem and therefore a brand new Bakugan, which allowed Hammer Gorem to start throwing out abilities. And either way, one could make the argument that they do keep it permanantly (And by "premenantly", I mean the fight Drago is in, not for the remainder of his time being alive).
I would like to get some more input on this so we can finally bury it once and for all.
And the weaknesses of those abilities aren't important for Drago because of the following.
1. Drago can just use Atomic Brave again and again if he needs to, given that we've seen him spam the same abilities over and over again in battle. So transforming would only be a temporary solution. This would mean that the foe would never be able to do anything other then basic attacks limited to non-specific physical strikes and non-specific ranged strikes. If physical strikes, Drago can just set up that barrier that not only increases his power, but he also lowers the foe's power with every strike they make on the barrier. As for ranged attack that a not specific, Drago can still just nullify, tank or dodge.
2. For Evil Copy, he can literally just do the same thing as Atomic Brave. Spam it if he needs to, since we know he can and he already understands the weakness of the move since it was used on him in the past. If he loses it, then he can just set it up again and still be suprerior once more. And besides, from what I've heard, Drago is one of the stronger 2-C characters right now, meaning that he'll likely already be stronger.
So essentially, the "weaknesses" of these abilities are non-existent because Drago can spam them should he need to until the inevitably work, and then he really just wouldn't lose.
And as for Atomic Brave, to my knowledge, the move is not given back to the original owner in the way that you think. It still is applying to and is applicable to the person who copied it, and it stays with them. At least, that is how it is treated in the anime when Clayf becomes superior, and even after evolving Clayf still had those buffs he got from Gorem, only losing them because he became Hammer Gorem and therefore a brand new Bakugan, which allowed Hammer Gorem to start throwing out abilities. And either way, one could make the argument that they do keep it permanantly (And by "premenantly", I mean the fight Drago is in, not for the remainder of his time being alive).
I would like to get some more input on this so we can finally bury it once and for all.
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True.....
Okay. How about this-
Its not something one would normally think of, but we may be able to make an acception this time given the situation around these 2 abilities. Anyway, why won't we limit Drago from using it in vs matches if its not neccesary? In other words, we ban Drago from using either ability in a match and that he cannot use it unless he ABSOLUTELY needs to. Like he has NO other possible way of beating an opponent without it. Otherwise, if he's facing someone in a difficult but fair match where he has other ways of winning, then he can't use either one at all.
Does this sound good?
Okay. How about this-
Its not something one would normally think of, but we may be able to make an acception this time given the situation around these 2 abilities. Anyway, why won't we limit Drago from using it in vs matches if its not neccesary? In other words, we ban Drago from using either ability in a match and that he cannot use it unless he ABSOLUTELY needs to. Like he has NO other possible way of beating an opponent without it. Otherwise, if he's facing someone in a difficult but fair match where he has other ways of winning, then he can't use either one at all.
Does this sound good?
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- #96
IDK, I just want some more input from the others.
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I don't know much about bakugan so please correct me if I make a mistake.
"Atomic brave" in the series is described as the following:
It takes all abilities given to the bakugan through ability cards after it has been activated.
I read this as, it takes all power that would classify as external input. Meaning that all power you yourself already have will not be affected by it at all (this is how clayf got beaten in the series).
Also I don't know if this changes later on in the series, but the bakugan abilities / ability cards don't seem spamable at all, since you have to activate the card (and you can only activate each card once per battle?). Also it seems that bakugan can't do anything without a partner activating their abilities.
"Atomic brave" in the series is described as the following:
It takes all abilities given to the bakugan through ability cards after it has been activated.
I read this as, it takes all power that would classify as external input. Meaning that all power you yourself already have will not be affected by it at all (this is how clayf got beaten in the series).
Also I don't know if this changes later on in the series, but the bakugan abilities / ability cards don't seem spamable at all, since you have to activate the card (and you can only activate each card once per battle?). Also it seems that bakugan can't do anything without a partner activating their abilities.
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^That is only Game Mechanics. Bakugan in their world can fight like they want. The ability cards are the Bakugan Abilities given form. I addressed that above.
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I believe we consider Atomic Brave a weaker Me First seeing as Clayf did continue to be stronger than Gorem no matter what skill he used.
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Wait, isn't Atomic Brave the cancellation ability? I though Evil Copy was the copying one.
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...Now I am getting confused. I don't know what's what anymore!!!!!!!!
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Yeah even im starting to get confused.
First, before we decide on anything, we might need to change something a bit.
Since Drago has, like, multiple abilities that do the same thing and other effects, it might be our best interest to place all abilities in specifc groups with reasoning behind it so we wont get confused.
First, before we decide on anything, we might need to change something a bit.
Since Drago has, like, multiple abilities that do the same thing and other effects, it might be our best interest to place all abilities in specifc groups with reasoning behind it so we wont get confused.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #104
Alright this is getting out of hand. Ill try and just sum this up as best as I can...
Evil Copy - Tranforms the user into the enemy and grants the user of Evil Copy all of the target's powers and abilities. If the User of Evil Copy decides to use the foe's abilities, then they will inherintly be more powerful then the enemy's/original's move or ability (Say if Drago became Arceus, then his Judgement would be more powerful then Arceus' Judgement). This does not, however, stop Arceus form using his attacks or abilities. The user can not copy weapons, only the actual foe and their abilities.
Atomic Brave - After this ability is activated, the enemy's abilities will not apply to them. Their ability will not activate for them, but it will activate for the benefit of the user of Atomic Brave instead. (An example is that Arceus tried to use Judgement, he would be unable to use it, and then Drago would throw it back at Arceus). If this ability were to be used, then a form change or transformation would "cancel" it (Clayf used the ability on Gorem, but when he evolved into Hammer Gorem, the ability seemed not to work, I guess). Therefore, Drago would have to reapply this move after every form change or transformation.
That's pretty much what they both are. Evil Copy allows the user to copy and use superior versions of moves that originally belonged to the foe.
Atomic Brave didn't actually cancel powers (Drago already has a crap load of cancellation and nullification anyway), but it simply made them apply to the user of Atomic Brave. So if Atomic Brave were used, then an enemy used some power or ability, it would actually then be used by Drago for Drago's benefit.
Does this clear anything up?
Evil Copy - Tranforms the user into the enemy and grants the user of Evil Copy all of the target's powers and abilities. If the User of Evil Copy decides to use the foe's abilities, then they will inherintly be more powerful then the enemy's/original's move or ability (Say if Drago became Arceus, then his Judgement would be more powerful then Arceus' Judgement). This does not, however, stop Arceus form using his attacks or abilities. The user can not copy weapons, only the actual foe and their abilities.
Atomic Brave - After this ability is activated, the enemy's abilities will not apply to them. Their ability will not activate for them, but it will activate for the benefit of the user of Atomic Brave instead. (An example is that Arceus tried to use Judgement, he would be unable to use it, and then Drago would throw it back at Arceus). If this ability were to be used, then a form change or transformation would "cancel" it (Clayf used the ability on Gorem, but when he evolved into Hammer Gorem, the ability seemed not to work, I guess). Therefore, Drago would have to reapply this move after every form change or transformation.
That's pretty much what they both are. Evil Copy allows the user to copy and use superior versions of moves that originally belonged to the foe.
Atomic Brave didn't actually cancel powers (Drago already has a crap load of cancellation and nullification anyway), but it simply made them apply to the user of Atomic Brave. So if Atomic Brave were used, then an enemy used some power or ability, it would actually then be used by Drago for Drago's benefit.
Does this clear anything up?
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Whoa.....
Pretty much lol. Did a much better job then I ever could thats for sure.
Pretty much lol. Did a much better job then I ever could thats for sure.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #106
Alright then
So if these are acceptable definitions/descriptions for the abilities, does anyone have problems with them now? And if so, what are those problems?
So if these are acceptable definitions/descriptions for the abilities, does anyone have problems with them now? And if so, what are those problems?
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I think the issue before was that no one knew exactly what kind of hax Atomic Brave would be in terms of vs abilities.
Evil Copy is easily defineable as a combo of Statstics Amping, Transformation and Power Mimicry but as far as Atomic Brave goes, it was under the impression that it was hax cancelling when it wasnt.
Would Atomic Brave be Automatic Power Stealing? Since it instantly steals any and all abilities from the opponent after activating it the moment they try to use them?
Evil Copy is easily defineable as a combo of Statstics Amping, Transformation and Power Mimicry but as far as Atomic Brave goes, it was under the impression that it was hax cancelling when it wasnt.
Would Atomic Brave be Automatic Power Stealing? Since it instantly steals any and all abilities from the opponent after activating it the moment they try to use them?
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- #108
Well, at this point, all I really know is what the abilities do. I'm really not in any position to say whether or not they should be set into place.
So, anyone else on this thread feel like weighing in? We'll hold one more quick "vote" type deal and afterwards, regardless of the results, we'll finally drop it. That seems like the best idea, given that we've essentially discussed this one topic to death by now.
So, anyone else on this thread feel like weighing in? We'll hold one more quick "vote" type deal and afterwards, regardless of the results, we'll finally drop it. That seems like the best idea, given that we've essentially discussed this one topic to death by now.
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Kk. But this time we should wait until everyone who was involved with the Bakugan revisions, or at least everyone in this thread, has given a say on what they think towards the abilities.
Now don't get me wrong. Staff members get a final say as to whether or not it goes through fine. I just would like to wait until everyone here has said what they think concerning these abilities before we drop it completely given some of us may be busy outside the wiki.
PS- someone needs to edit Dharak's note a bit. It should say that he is allowed to use all Bakugan abilities not just the ones listed in his profile. The ones listed in his profile are just some of the most notable ones of all Bakugan hax that were worth putting. Otherwise, every other ability in Bakugan can be classified under the note. And this goes for Drago and Code Eve as well.
Now don't get me wrong. Staff members get a final say as to whether or not it goes through fine. I just would like to wait until everyone here has said what they think concerning these abilities before we drop it completely given some of us may be busy outside the wiki.
PS- someone needs to edit Dharak's note a bit. It should say that he is allowed to use all Bakugan abilities not just the ones listed in his profile. The ones listed in his profile are just some of the most notable ones of all Bakugan hax that were worth putting. Otherwise, every other ability in Bakugan can be classified under the note. And this goes for Drago and Code Eve as well.
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Staff gets the final say, huh? I say no, and I'm not changing my stance. And you all have 5 minutes before you're blocked.
Obviously, I'm just kidding. From what Gimmy put up above, I can fully support that.
Obviously, I'm just kidding. From what Gimmy put up above, I can fully support that.
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NO!!!!!!!!!! xD
And kk thats good. Dragon will likely support it as well but, still, wouldnt hurt for him to give us his thoughts too to be on the safe side.
And kk thats good. Dragon will likely support it as well but, still, wouldnt hurt for him to give us his thoughts too to be on the safe side.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- Thread starter
- #112
Alrighty then. We'll only have to wait for Dragontime and Dragonmaster to give their thoughts on this as well.
Also, made this for fun lol
Also, made this for fun lol
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The descriptions fit pretty well, and it's cleared up a lot of confusion. Thanks a lot Gimmy. Once Dragonmaster unlocks Drago's profile I can help make the edits. Wonder why we thought it was hax cancellation to begin with.
Otherwise, I'm fine with this.
Although I will only be available later in the afternoon.
Otherwise, I'm fine with this.
Although I will only be available later in the afternoon.
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Looks fine. Also I can't unlock the page since I'm only a Discussion Mod. Only Admins or Content Mods can do that.
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Dragonoid's
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- #118
Probably my fault on that one, given how I worded it in the original post, but whatevs XDDragontime said:
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I'm going to add in Drago's Powers and Abilites, but others may need to add in his ability cards.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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- #120
I can do that, but it may take a little bit to really figure out what each one does since half of them aren't explained or elaborated upon on the Bakugan wikia.Dragontime said:
Time to watch through a bunch of episodes now. c:
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