Baki The Grappler Upgrade

[King_stopped]

I'm going to talk about a few gripes i have with the reasons the baki the grappler series was downgraded and I'm going to be using some fats and calcs

FEATS
lets get the easiest part out of the way first , the feats that support the previous upgrades

The first and most controversial one is of course Biscuit oliva affecting the entire earth , a lot of people on this wiki seem to believe that it was not because of his strength but because of him moving more then 6 MPH , this is completely wrong , it is directly stated that if Oliva was to fight then he would activate the satellites to mess up other devices in a , and i cannot state this enough , 70 mile area , Oliva had already been fighting che for a while so he would have already activated the satellites , it was also directly stated that it was because of his full strength that he affected the entire world , which included places far out the 70 mile range , which would make this a strength feat and not him moving 6 MPH , which sending shockwaves that affect the earth has been previously calced to at least small island level , with the mid end being island and the high end being large island

Another controversial feat is yujiro stopping an earthquake in its entirety , it was stated to be a big one , which since japan commonly contributes to 20 percent of magnitude 6 earthquakes and above every single year , would make it at least a magnitude 6.5 and likely higher to a magnitude 7 , if we assume it was a magnitude 6.5 just to be sure , since he stopped it in its entirety , meaning he stopped everything , he would also have stopped its total seismic energy , which would be Large mountain level , this was an extremely casual yujiro without his demon back and with a single attack , it is likely that he is far higher , with the most impressive part being that this is the second weakest yujiro we see

CALCS
first lets lay the groundworks , it has been calced that if you are able to defeat somebody in one punch with brute strength then you are most likely around 7.5 times stronger, this is important for later scaling

Yujiro scaling calc

since he did this feat this easily its easy to assume that he would at least scale to the highest possible amount of gigatons of power you can have before becoming island level , lets assume that in base during part one baki that was the maximum he could put out ( which is likely a lowball ) , during baki part two he fights kaku kaioh who had the ability to kill yujiro multiple times , but when yujiro activates his incomplete demon back ( yes incomplete ) he doesn't take any damage from kaku aside from a little bleeding after being hit many times from him ( this is after yujiro hit him a few times so he would have had power to use ) , which means that the incomplete demon back alone is at least 7.5 times multiplier ( likely higher ) , we don't know exactly how much the complete demon back multiplier is so i will only be using the incomplete multiplier to be safe

so lets assume that at full power in base during baki part one yujiro is only 4.3 Gigatons , part 2 baki doesn't take too much time from the end of part one so lets assume he didn't get that much stronger ( lets also assume that he didn't get stronger between baki being thirteen and then seventeen ) , so lets skip this one
when pickle is awakened we learn that kaku kaioh would use his ultimate technique of killing himself , which would base pickle on the same level as complete demon back yujiro , and scaling of of baki yujiro should be on the same level of strength as base pickle in his own base form

during baki part 4 musashi when he is extraordinarily casual is able to destroy full power pickle , but a base yujiro is able to force musashi to use a far larger amount of his power then a full power pickle who in his base form was his equal in part 3 , so he got at the very least ( like the most least you could ever least ) 7.5 times stronger , then you add the demon back and he is equal to full power musashi miyamoto

so this what we got
base form yujiro in part 1 ( lowballed ) : 4.3 Gigatons
base form yujiro in part 3 ( lowballed ) : 32.25 Gigatons
base form yujiro in part 4 ( lowballed ) : 241.875 Gigatons
which would make yujiro and other who even remotely scale to him large island level or island level

if we scale calc with Olivas feat we will get pretty similar results just with one extra 7.5 multiplication
so
Oliva : 4.3 Gigatons
Yujiro in part 2 : 32.25 Gigatons
Yujiro in part 3 : 241.875 Gigatons
Yujiro in part 4 : 1814.0625 Gigatons
Yujiro with incomplete Demon back in part 4 : 13605.46875 Gigatons

Conclusion
'if we use the lowballed yujiro feat ( with a lowballed amount of what the earthquakes magnitude was ) all top tiers in baki should at least be island level , Likely large island level
if we use the Oliva feat ( and midball it ) then all characters who scale above Oliva should be island level , with a few scaling to large island and the two gods of the series Musashi and Yujiro scaling to country level

 

[Chaos Jester25]

first lets lay the groundworks , it has been calced that if you are able to defeat somebody in one punch with brute strength then you are most likely around 7.5 times stronger, this is important for later scaling

I am not knowledgeable on the verse so this is all i'm gonna say. When it comes to the 7.5 times gap to one-shot rule the One-Shot page says "This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse". So you can't use the 7.5 multiplier to upgrade a character's AP because of a one-shot.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Scans for the Oliva vs Che fight would be appreciated. Because I do not recall the fall itself shaking the entire planet.

Also if it was literal, it would be massive outlier since Oliva isn't god tier anymore.

 

[DMUA]

It's described that way

... Because the blow messed up his GPS or something akin to that as opposed to sending waves through the entire planet.

 

[King_stopped]

it didn't just mess up his gps it also messed up every gps around the world , and because it wouldn't have been caused by his satellite that spies on him he would have had to cause that , i cant think of any other way that would be possible aside from him sending shock waves that went through the entire earth

 

[King_stopped]

Scans for the Oliva vs Che fight would be appreciated. Because I do not recall the fall itself shaking the entire planet.

Also if it was literal, it would be massive outlier since Oliva isn't god tier anymore.

, here are the scans , they are at 4.30 minutes

 

[King_stopped]

I am not knowledgeable on the verse so this is all i'm gonna say. When it comes to the 7.5 times gap to one-shot rule the One-Shot page says "This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse". So you can't use the 7.5 multiplier to upgrade a character's AP because of a one-shot.

could i ask is there any other way that i can do this then , i would really like that information , either way i was more just saying why i believe the downgrades from island level were wrong

 

[King_stopped]

Bump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean it's all kind of a moot point since Musashi and Nomi have no feats of anything greater than Oliva or even close to such a feat. It would be massive outlier since they're > him in strength.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

, here are the scans , they are at 4.30 minutes

That looks like a massive outlier bruh.

 

[King_stopped]

nah man , that ain't no outlier bruh

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

nah man , that ain't no outlier bruh

Nah bro, a dude who's not even a god tier performs an island level feat when the god tiers are city block? bruuuuh

 

[King_stopped]

That looks like a massive outlier bruh.

yujiro in part 1 also did a feat which is likely at least island level and he did it casually in base form , so an attack from Oliva doing this makes sense since this is also calced to be an island level feat

 

[Sir_Ovens]

yujiro in part 1 also did a feat which is likely at least island level and he did it casually in base form , so an attack from Oliva doing this makes sense since this is also calced to be an island level feat

Nomi is leagues above Oliva and has no feats even close to that.

 

[King_stopped]

Nomi is leagues above Oliva and has no feats even close to that.

he does have feats like that , like as you said destroying Oliva , and Musashi has him being a far stronger Yujiros equal then the one who caused this likely at least island level feat , just because we don't see someone do those same feats doesn't mean they cant do them , we don't see kaido destroying an island yet we know he can easily do it scaling of of luffy , we don't see jiren destroying a universe but he can scaling of of goku , their feats are them scaling to characters who can do them , that argument of if we don't see stronger characters do the same its an outlier is a stupid one unless those stronger characters have shown to not be able to do that , which we havent seen from nomi or musashi

 

[PrinceofPein]

he does have feats like that , like as you said destroying Oliva , and Musashi has him being a far stronger Yujiros equal then the one who caused this likely at least island level feat , just because we don't see someone do those same feats doesn't mean they cant do them , we don't see kaido destroying an island yet we know he can easily do it scaling of of luffy , we don't see jiren destroying a universe but he can scaling of of goku , their feats are them scaling to characters who can do them , that argument of if we don't see stronger characters do the same its an outlier is a stupid one unless those stronger characters have shown to not be able to do that , which we havent seen from nomi or musashi

i am going to address your examples.'
Kaido does not scale off luffy but Old WB
Jiren does not scale off Goku but the other gods of destruction, so use better examples

 

[PrinceofPein]

and yes this is an outlier, island level feat fro a mid tier where the god tiers are city blocks? yes it is an outlier lmao it is like a thousand times more than the god tiers

 

[King_stopped]

and yes this is an outlier, island level feat fro a mid tier where the god tiers are city blocks? yes it is an outlier lmao it is like a thousand times more than the god tiers

you people keep on bringing up this example , i already stated base yujiro who is casual without the demon back in part 1 has an island level feat , its not outside the range of these characters , considering that that yujiro is still a high tier even back then and he did that casually , the strongest mid tier in the series using his full power to do a feat which is just as strong is not outside the range of possibility , use better examples

 

[King_stopped]

i am going to address your examples.'
Kaido does not scale off luffy but Old WB
Jiren does not scale off Goku but the other gods of destruction, so use better examples

how do they not scale of of each other , jiren fought goku and was equal with him , you scale jiren to goku , luffy fought kaido and got hit once by his club and lost , kaido scales to luffy and above him

 

[King_stopped]

will you people actually bring up better arguments aside from its an outlier when it clearly isn't , maybe bring up actual proof and not just say things that are wrong , because you haven't brought up anything that disproves my point

 

[PrinceofPein]

how do they not scale of of each other , jiren fought goku and was equal with him , you scale jiren to goku , luffy fought kaido and got hit once by his club and lost , kaido scales to luffy and above him

luffy does not scale off kaido but OFF OLD WB, it is like scaling kizaru off pre ts luffy and strawhats does that make sense to you?
anyway read the pages
goku scales off jiren and not the other way around.

will you people actually bring up better arguments aside from its an outlier when it clearly isn't , maybe bring up actual proof and not just say things that are wrong , because you haven't brought up anything that disproves my point

an outlier will always be an outlier man i mean it is as simple as that there is no argument necessary just that a verse with consistent city block feats around god tiers wont be getting upgraded cause a mid tier did something thousand times more

 

[King_stopped]

you

luffy does not scale off kaido but OFF OLD WB, it is like scaling kizaru off pre ts luffy and strawhats does that make sense to you?
anyway read the pages
goku scales off jiren and not the other way around.

an outlier will always be an outlier man i mean it is as simple as that there is no argument necessary just that a verse with consistent city block feats around god tiers wont be getting upgraded cause a mid tier did something thousand times more

aren't event trying to disprove the yujiro feat that i keep bringing up , jiren doesn't have any universal feats , he only has fighting people who are , that's his feats , yujiro did an island level feat , oliva ( the strongest mid tier ) did an island level feat , the other characters that you keep bringing up scale to them , that's called scaling , just because we don't see them do it doesnt mean they cant , the fact that two characters are able to do island level feats and that it isn't contradicted by something else means they aren't outliers , yujiro is called a natural disaster , you know , like earthquakes , which can be island level , these feats arent outliers

 

[PrinceofPein]

Dude upscaling does not work like that i dont how to explain it to you, but no we dont upscale this way

 

[King_stopped]

Dude upscaling does not work like that i dont how to explain it to you, but no we dont upscale this way

how is it upscaling , these natural disaster and earthquake feats are pretty consistent , yujiros part 1 feat , Oliva sending shockwaves throughout the entire earth , nomi no sukune the second casually and unintentionally creating short earthquakes by just stomping his foot practicing , yujiro just becoming angry ( just his anger could i repeat ) is able to create shockwaves throughout a fifty story building ( if i remember correctly ) that are comparable to earthquakes ( at least a magnitude six , that he also seemed to have control over since it didn't go any further than the building plus the area were Baki and him were wasn't affected by the vibrations , all this , by just getting angry ) , yujiro being compared to natural disasters

 

[King_stopped]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Outlier. To but this into perspective this is thousands of times above the apsolute highest you can reasonably put YUJIRO HANMA. Let alone from a mid-tier.

The verse has consistently tier 9-8 feats, we don't take some random tier 6 feat for a verse where God Tiers are at most Low 7-B.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also its a Hyperbole.

 

[King_stopped]

Also its a Hyperbole.

may I ask which feat is hyperbole , their you people go again forgetting the yujiro feat , i brought up multiple times were characters have caused or were scaled earthquakes and natural disasters , you just say outlier without recognising anything else , bring up actual arguments that prove your points , thousands of times higher then what yujiro can do , yujiro is part one did a comparable feat , how do you come up with this stuff , i'm just going to put it up plain and simple
1 . yujiro gets compared to natural disasters , which earthquakes count as natural disasters , this is backed up by the fact that yujiro managed to stop a very likely magnitude 7 earthquake and was able to stop it in its entirety , this is double backed up by yujiro just getting angry being able create vibrations through out a massive building which was compared to an earthquake , and it was a controlled one since it didn't go further then that building and the area around baki and yujiro wasn't affected ( so since it was a controlled one it might have not even been at full power if yujiro didn't control it , considering what it was doing to the building it would likely be a magnitude six since if it had go on it would have started doing damage which when you reach a magnitude six earthquake is when buildings start getting really damaged )
2 . Oliva used his full power to send powerful enough vibration all through out the earth ( affecting the entire world ) , which would count as earthquake , if he were to concentrate that power it would likely be island level as it had been previously calculated to be , nomi no sukune ( who is leagues above Oliva ) is able to casually create very short vibrations which were compared to earthquakes while he was only practicing and not meaning to do it , seeing the reactions of the people it would likely be at least a magnitude six earthquake since the people would be somewhat used to it since japan is the place were 20% percent of all magnitude six and higher earthquakes happen all around the world every year , so it at least a magnitude six and the midball would be a six point five ( lets just assume a six ) , if we don't assume it also has the power of the entirety of an earthquake ( it scales only to the radiated waves and not the total seismic energy ) it would have been town level , and if it does scale to the seismic energy of magnitude six earthquakes ( since it was compared to an earthquake and also since baki characters can produce power to cancel out seismic energy as seen with the yujiro feat it is safe to assume that it could have had the same power as a magnitude six seismic energy ) it would be mountain level , that number gets higher if we assume that its magnitude six point five , which ( if it doesn't scale to total seismic energy ) would be town level plus , and if it does scale it would be large mountain level ( which is calced to be the lowball for the Oliva feat which would make it consistent since he's doing it casually while Oliva had to use his full power ) , the more interesting part is the reaction of tokugawa , the man was visibly distressed by what was happening ( he was running out the door and he was shaking his head when it happened ) , the reason why i find it interesting is because Tokugawa is really old , he's in his likely late eighties , so he would have experienced these magnitude six earthquakes for eighty years at this point , he wouldn't have looked so distressed at a measly magnitude six or six point five earthquake , something that he had experienced for almost a century , so if you want you could argue that its even similar to a magnitude seven , which if it only scales to radiated waves it would be large town level , if it also scales to the total seismic energy ( once again very likely possibility thanks to the yujiro feat ) it would be island level ( which is the mid ball for both the yujiro part one feat and the mid ball for the 100% percent Oliva feat , so it is consistent with the god tiers being able to pull off these feats easily while the strongest mid tier had to use 100% of his power )

Their are not only consistent statements of characters being compared to earthquakes and natural disasters but also feats to along with them , its very consistent , if it had no context then it wouldn't be impressive since earthquakes and natural disasters have many different levels of strength , but with the context that they have it supports these higher levels , im sorry

 

[DaReaperMan]

Natural disasters are like, 9-C(Tsunamis not murdering people horribly) to 6-C(max Earthquakes). The statements are far too variable and Yujiro already stopped an earthquake with a 15 Kiloton punch(don't ask me why it got removed, I don't know)

Oliva is a mid-tier. That feat is a Hyperbole, and EVEN IF IT WASN'T its an outlier for a mid-tier of a generally tier 9-8 series.

No, tier 6 isn't consistent. It's thousands of times above Low 7-B, which is already off of a statement and got the axe, tier 9-8 feats from just about everyone and their mother>>>> a variable statement and High 6-C feat from not even a God-tier.

I can already tell you your wasting your breath and my time, because this will never get accepted if Low 7-B got the axe

 

[DaReaperMan]

Regardless, I do not have the knowledge on Baki to continue this conversation further. I have however called a knowledgeable member here.

I'm I'm wrong I'm wrong, if I'm right I'm right. Thats how it be.

 

[King_stopped]

Regardless, I do not have the knowledge on Baki to continue this conversation further. I have however called a knowledgeable member here.

I'm I'm wrong I'm wrong, if I'm right I'm right. Thats how it be.

I presented an entire wall of evidence , with statements , feats AND context , you are wrong , hopefully this friend of yours will understand , good day

 

[DaReaperMan]

I presented an entire wall of evidence , with statements , feats AND context , you are wrong , hopefully this friend of yours will understand , good day

Yet no scans.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Oliva isn’t really a mid tier in my opinion lol.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I would say more like mid to high

 

[DaReaperMan]

Speak of the devil.

may I ask which feat is hyperbole , their you people go again forgetting the yujiro feat , i brought up multiple times were characters have caused or were scaled earthquakes and natural disasters , you just say outlier without recognising anything else , bring up actual arguments that prove your points , thousands of times higher then what yujiro can do , yujiro is part one did a comparable feat , how do you come up with this stuff , i'm just going to put it up plain and simple
1 . yujiro gets compared to natural disasters , which earthquakes count as natural disasters , this is backed up by the fact that yujiro managed to stop a very likely magnitude 7 earthquake and was able to stop it in its entirety , this is double backed up by yujiro just getting angry being able create vibrations through out a massive building which was compared to an earthquake , and it was a controlled one since it didn't go further then that building and the area around baki and yujiro wasn't affected ( so since it was a controlled one it might have not even been at full power if yujiro didn't control it , considering what it was doing to the building it would likely be a magnitude six since if it had go on it would have started doing damage which when you reach a magnitude six earthquake is when buildings start getting really damaged )
2 . Oliva used his full power to send powerful enough vibration all through out the earth ( affecting the entire world ) , which would count as earthquake , if he were to concentrate that power it would likely be island level as it had been previously calculated to be , nomi no sukune ( who is leagues above Oliva ) is able to casually create very short vibrations which were compared to earthquakes while he was only practicing and not meaning to do it , seeing the reactions of the people it would likely be at least a magnitude six earthquake since the people would be somewhat used to it since japan is the place were 20% percent of all magnitude six and higher earthquakes happen all around the world every year , so it at least a magnitude six and the midball would be a six point five ( lets just assume a six ) , if we don't assume it also has the power of the entirety of an earthquake ( it scales only to the radiated waves and not the total seismic energy ) it would have been town level , and if it does scale to the seismic energy of magnitude six earthquakes ( since it was compared to an earthquake and also since baki characters can produce power to cancel out seismic energy as seen with the yujiro feat it is safe to assume that it could have had the same power as a magnitude six seismic energy ) it would be mountain level , that number gets higher if we assume that its magnitude six point five , which ( if it doesn't scale to total seismic energy ) would be town level plus , and if it does scale it would be large mountain level ( which is calced to be the lowball for the Oliva feat which would make it consistent since he's doing it casually while Oliva had to use his full power ) , the more interesting part is the reaction of tokugawa , the man was visibly distressed by what was happening ( he was running out the door and he was shaking his head when it happened ) , the reason why i find it interesting is because Tokugawa is really old , he's in his likely late eighties , so he would have experienced these magnitude six earthquakes for eighty years at this point , he wouldn't have looked so distressed at a measly magnitude six or six point five earthquake , something that he had experienced for almost a century , so if you want you could argue that its even similar to a magnitude seven , which if it only scales to radiated waves it would be large town level , if it also scales to the total seismic energy ( once again very likely possibility thanks to the yujiro feat ) it would be island level ( which is the mid ball for both the yujiro part one feat and the mid ball for the 100% percent Oliva feat , so it is consistent with the god tiers being able to pull off these feats easily while the strongest mid tier had to use 100% of his power )

Their are not only consistent statements of characters being compared to earthquakes and natural disasters but also feats to along with them , its very consistent , if it had no context then it wouldn't be impressive since earthquakes and natural disasters have many different levels of strength , but with the context that they have it supports these higher levels , im sorry

Oliva isn’t really a mid tier in my opinion lol.

I do as well, he's kind of in a wierd spot between God and Top tiers I think

Please evaluate regardless

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I’m currently busy at the moment. Afterwards will evaluate, but just letting yall know Oliva is most definitely a Top tier character lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

He's tiered like a mid tier, but I haven't been keeping up.

 

[King_stopped]

He is more like strongest mid tier , the number one of the mid tiers , then you have the high tiers which are pickle , sukune , hanayama and motobe with prep time , then you have the gods of the series which are musashi miyamoto and yujiro and in between the gods and the high tiers is Baki

 

[DaReaperMan]

Baki is definitely a god tier later on.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Another controversial feat is yujiro stopping an earthquake in its entirety , it was stated to be a big one , which since japan commonly contributes to 20 percent of magnitude 6 earthquakes and above every single year , would make it at least a magnitude 6.5 and likely higher to a magnitude 7 , if we assume it was a magnitude 6.5 just to be sure , since he stopped it in its entirety , meaning he stopped everything , he would also have stopped its total seismic energy , which would be Large mountain level , this was an extremely casual yujiro without his demon back and with a single attack , it is likely that he is far higher , with the most impressive part being that this is the second weakest yujiro we see

Part of this I have to agree with. In the scene in question the magnitude of the earthquake was completely shake part of a city, this is literally impossible for a magnitude 5. This article says that magnitude 5 on the Shindo scale (which is comparable to 6 on the Richter scale as far as I remember) is impossible to affect a reinforced building in Japan. Magnitude 6 would really be the minimum. Although total seismic energy makes no sense here

Just a thought