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Baki Scaling Revision Thread

Like BakiHanma pointed out, Chiharu did more damage to Baki than Retsu did to Pickle. Retsu needed to use Pickle’s own charge against him with a counter to damage him at all and like it’s been pointed out multiple times, characters who are stronger than Retsu were one shot by a serious Pickle.

Musashi has consistently shown to be nowhere near the top tiers in terms of durability. He’s deadly, not super physically powerful.

I’ve brought up before that I believe Musashi should be 7-C in durability when he’s using his true sword form (there’s gotta be an official name for this form but I’m going with this for now) that he used on Baki and Yujiro. Since he gets a very clear power up and essentially becomes the sword by “learning how to stay armed even after putting his swords away” according to Yujiro. True form Musashi only has two durability feats, taking a nut shot from a serious Yujiro and taking multiple strikes from a serious Baki. Pretty consistent there without a doubt. But base Musashi just doesn’t have consistent feats on that level.
 
Base Musashi was hurt by Retsu, Doppo, and KO’d by a casual base Baki, and all three can take hits from him and keep going just fine, but Baki met his match against “True” Musashi or whatever, and Doppo was oneshot. Hell, Retsu was so outmatched by “True” Musashi that Musashi killed him through Xiao-Lee
 
I guess I'll read through 125 comments...

If somebody could provide a TLDR, that would be a great help. Like which points have been resolved and which points still need more input along with the arguments for and against them.
 
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Yes, I would also appreciate help with this.
 
I’ve just finished reading SOO and Dou over again to be as refreshed as I can and I do see the reasonings for a lot of the characters being upgraded.

Most characters so far have been agreed upon but we’ve got a couple left that are giving difficulty due to the massive inconsistencies in their feats. Notably we have Retsu, Musashi’s physical stats and Prime Orochi who are all candidates for a Low 7-C rating. I’ll get back to these three in a second.

Agreed upon we have Shobun and SOO Jack going up to Low 7-C due to their feats against Oliva and Pickle respectively. Baki Dou Jack can be At least Low 7-C since sadly he lacks any feats to get him into 7-C (damn you Motobe). Hana will obviously keep his rating of likely 7-C as of Baki Dou. Although I do propose Hana gets a SOO specific key and a Dou specific key since he gets stronger between the two. Everyone does. In SOO he matched casual Pickle’s strength better than Base Baki did (our Low 7-C benchmark character) so he should just have a Low 7-C rating without the likely 7-C for SOO imo. Motobe with his full kit will also be Low 7-C for all of his feats. I don’t think there were issues with him at all. We are also in agreement that Katsumi will not be upgraded due to the clear anti feats of the Mach Fist destroying his body simply from usage of it.

So, the big three. Retsu, Musashi and Prime Orochi. I think Prime Orochi has been overdue for a while and everyone knows it. He was introduced early on and immediately set up as far far far far beyond Baki and the other side cast at the time, being so far above Baki that Baki truly thought he was on Yujiro’s level. He essentially scales to Low 7-C for the same reasons Shobun does, although he isn’t able to damage Yujiro he still stuns him and manages to get up after a direct attack that he failed to block. Although it messed him up pretty good and he didn’t think he could take another. Still I think we should be good on this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Retsu should not be tier 7 in SOO. He has a single feat that would put him on that level, where as multiple feats across multiple arcs plus statements saying he isn’t that strong. However, Dou Retsu has much different arguments. Dou Retsu had a massive power up over the 1 year timeskip. Massive enough to the point where he stomped Wilbur Bolt, the same guy who was vastly physically to Retsu at the end of SOO. He then fights Musashi and does a decent job against him. He still can’t take a direct 7-C attack without... well... you know. But he still hurt Musashi. He also hurt Motobe with his attacks despite Motobe’s armour being strong enough to defend him from Jack. So Low 7-C Dou Retsu is good imo. Just not SOO when he was much weaker.

Lastly Musashi’s durability. I think Low 7-C is fine if we scale up Retsu. The only feat that would really be against it at that point is Shibukawa hurting him with a punch but that could easily be an outlier for Shibukawa rather than an anti feat for Musashi. Obviously again I don’t think he should be 7-C since he’s still shown as vastly weaker than the 7-C’s and can do way more damage than he can take with his swords. I single jab from a casual Base Baki had him TKO’d for 10 seconds and Hanayama was going to KO him with only a couple attacks, one of which was met with a sword slash to half the damage.

So basically to sum it up

Upgraded: Shobun, SOO and Dou Jack, Motobe with full kit, Dou Retsu, Musashi, Prime Orochi

Same: Katsumi w/o Mach Fist, SOO Retsu, Hanayama (he was already good to begin with he just needs another key)

If this is agreeable I can start making the changes as soon as tonight.
 
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I would like a scan added somewhere of the statistic amp justification. But I'm fine with all of Amlad's suggestions.
 
Okay. Thank you. This seems to have been accepted then.
 
Looks like the matter was settled then. I think the conclusion makes sense.
 
Tell me here when you are done.
 
Yeah, all of this seems fair enough. After taking some time to think about the backscaling and trying to think of a compromise, I think Amlad’s proposal is better than anything I could come up with and is probably as good as we’ll get in terms of accuracy to both powerscaling and narrative
 
But back on the Demon Back thing. A lot of tiers are based entirely on a multiplier with no linked justification. Does anyone have it?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
But back on the Demon Back thing. A lot of tiers are based entirely on a multiplier with no linked justification. Does anyone have it?
Click to expand...
~2:30 Retsu- “His kicks just doubled in strength!”
If a half awakening=doubled strength, a full awakening is likely 4x or higher, also backed by Baki’s performance against Jack after unlocking the Demon Back briefly and Baki’s showings against Oliva and Yujiro that it’s at least a high stat boost in speed, durability and strength
 
The only manga translations we have are wild fang. Which I wouldn’t want to use due to their notorious reputation for really bad translations. Once the good translations get to the Baki and Retsu fight we’ll have an idea if anything like it is said in the manga though or if it’s an anime only inclusion.
 
Is it possible to obtain the raw scans and get one of our translators to translate it?
 
Probably if we can get the raws. Then we can decide how to move forward with Demon Back if it is an anime only statement. The anime did add A LOT to basically every single fight in the tournament except for the short ones.
 
If you get a raw scan I can wing a translation. If it's mostly similar to Wild Fang we can just use that for the time being.
 
How did you get that Demon Back multiplier link? Pretty sure it has been asked for in at least 10+ threads. I think I can get the raws in a few.
 
Well, if Qaws and Ovens are looking over this thread, I will unwatch it. The main stuff seems to be settled anyway.
 
I have seen the anime scan and the manga scans and I can conclude that Baki's Demon Back awakening is purely an anime thing. Even if it was implied that his Demon Back awakened at that moment in the manga, there is no 2x statement to be found. Demon Back should just be listed as higher.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I have seen the anime scan and the manga scans and I can conclude that Baki's Demon Back awakening is purely an anime thing. Even if it was implied that his Demon Back awakened at that moment in the manga, there is no 2x statement to be found. Demon Back should just be listed as higher.
Click to expand...
Could you provide both the anime version and manga version of this scene so I can make a judgement on this?
 
We prioritize manga versions of scenes over anime versions, so unless there is more to say here the multiplier should be removed.
 
I still have no idea what the value for the 7-C tier is. If it is baseline, the current downscaled characters should be adjusted to Low 7-C+. Those with Demon Back would have the stat amp listed as higher.
 
Well, honestly I have issues with Tier 7 Baki as a whole, but perhaps that's for another thread.
 
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