Baki Scaling Revision Thread

[Sir_Ovens]

This will be a simple but tedious revision so I will try to keep it snappy.

The purpose of this is simply to work out the scaling issues of the verse. I am not kept up with the current talks about revising the tiering so I'll try my best to keep out of that.

The Problem
Currently, a lot of characters have very weird and arbitrary scaling. For example, Ron Shobun is 9-A, likely far higher for harming Biscuit Oliva, a 7-C. What is the reasoning for this you might ask? Well the reasoning given on the page states:

"Given his status he should be far stronger than New Grappler Baki Retsu Kaioh or Dorian Kaioh. Could damage a heavily suppressed Oliva. Despite this, he shattered his fingers attempting to attack a semi serious Oliva’s muscles"

There are two problems with this statement. First of all, Ron only appears once throughout New Grappler Baki. Secondly, "heavily suppressed Oliva" is absolute headcanon. The only thing "suppressed" about Oliva was that he didn't tense his ab muscles when Oliva struck him the first time.

So let me break it down for you. Ron, a man who appeared once throughout the entire run of Baki, who was sponsored by Kaku Kaioh himself, who injured a 7-C, is in 9-A. I hope the absurdity of that sentence is not lost upon you. If you're still lacking context, let me show you exactly what happens:

Ron makes Oliva bleed

He trips and kicks Oliva in the face, which makes Yujiro audibly say that had to hurt

Ron then smacks Oliva again and goes for his eardrums causing Oliva to state that it hurts

Oliva then mocks Ron's stance, to which Ron smacks him and asks him to hit him

Oliva obliges, only to get smacked and sent to the ground

Oliva gets back up and mocks Ron again, causing the latter to berate him with attacks and make him physically bleed

I could go on and finish the fight. Hell, I could even show this screenshot of Ron's attack not working a second time because Oliva tensed his abs this time, but it doesn't matter. I have more than enough evidence that Ron should very well scale to Oliva. The strangest part is, this isn't the only instance of this weird scaling happening.

Retsu made Pickle bleed after the latter ran into him, and later fought and harmed Musashi.

Katsumi made Pickle alert and panicked with his mere presence.

Motobe took a hit from angry Yujiro and didn't immediately explode into gore. He also later fought and harmed Musashi, and stomped both Baki and Jack prior.

And so on...

Notice something wrong? They all don't scale. Worse than that, some of these people can harm 7-Cs and are rated at 9-A.

Solution
I know which characters should scale to who. This is an issue only prevalent in all arcs Post-Grappler Baki. I'll list down the character, the key that should be changed, and the reason why.

SoO onwards Jack should be 7-C (He could tear out Pickle's ear with his teeth and physically grapple with him)

SoO onwards Retsu should be 7-C (He could make Pickle bleed from this point onwards. Plus, the next arc has him face Musashi and physically harm him)

SoO onwards Katsumi should just be straight up 7-C, higher with Mach Punch (Pickle saw him as a legitimate threat, the other being Retsu himself previously. Mach punch could actually harm Pickle as an offensive technique, so it would scale even more to Pickle)

SoO onwards Hanayama should just straight up be 7-C (I have no idea why Hanayama would not scale to Pickle and Yujiro directly. The man was comparable to the former, and later in Dou, he caused minor damage to the latter. Hell, he could have killed Musashi. Speaking of which...)

Musashi should be 7-C in both AP and dura. More than that, he should just have a single key (Musashi stomps everyone. The only person he didn't stomp was Yujiro, but their fight was interrupted, and he could even scratch him with his imagination. Which is weird, but better than anything anyone else sans Baki has ever done in the series)

Dou onwards Motobe should be 7-C (He stomped Baki, Jack, and survived a bloodlusted attack from Yujiro. Granted, he passed out after that last part, but if he was really at the tier he is right now, he would have been reduced to gore. Plus, he fought and harmed Musashi)

Dou II Doppo Orochi should be 7-C (He was capable of fighting and stomping a Rekishi, who should all scale to each other. One of which, fought Hanayama)

Ron Shobun should be 7-C (Scaling from Oliva. All the proof is above)

Hector Doyle should not have a "higher" rating (Him harming Oliva is clear outlier, considering he only did so with a bladed weapon and doesn't face anyone on Oliva's caliber ever again)

And I think that's it.

Miscellaneous/Conclusion
From what I've heard, some characters will be upgraded to 8-A or 7-B in the future, scaling from Baki's "earthquake" and Yujiro's statement of being completely unharmed if the world launched all their nukes at him. Regardless of that, the outcome remains the same. Whatever tiers Yujiro gets, the backscaling will take effect and the above characters should have their tiers reflected to show as such. Low 7-C as a tier is completely arbitrary and I have no idea where it comes from. Even backscaling from 7-C, unless baseline, would give you 7-C. If there were 100 people, each person strong enough to stomp the last, and the strongest of the 100 was in 7-C, the last person would still be 7-C. This is how scaling works.

That is all.

 

[Andytrenom]

Nah man

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Following

 

[Andytrenom]

On a serious note, the claims apart from Ron scaling to Olivia need sources

Ron himself scaling to Olivia should be fine, unless more context shows up

 

[Sir_Ovens]

It will take a while to source everything (considering how many people need it).

If you give me some time (probably tomorrow), I can provide all the scans.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i agree, because all i know this is true lol i read dou, Soo, and one before that in a row again not too long ago. albeit, something about katsumi- his mach punch isnt just a punch. he can use it on any attack, on any part of his body. it does damage to himself yeah, but it still represents how hard he hits now.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I agree with all of this

 

[Antvasima]

This seems to make sense, but as Andy said, we probably need some evidence.

 

[Ionliosite]

Motobe and Retsu have evidence on their profiles, so yeah, the scaling here is completely messed up. I agree with this, making a 7-C bleed shouldn't be 9-A.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Seems fine.

 

[00potato]

Ron definitely should scale somewhat to Oliva, though he isn’t very close in physical power he could contend a bit.

 

[BakiHanma18]

The original plan was to wait and include this in the Stat CRT for Baki, as this just means that there will now be 3+ CRTs almost consecutively, but since this is already up, I’ll lay out the points from before:



To address Ron vs Oliva, no, Ron does not scale to Oliva’s 7-C power. It’s painfully obvious that Oliva was barely trying the entire time, and we’ve had multiple discussions about the existence of casual durability both within Baki and within other verses. Narratively speaking, it’s very clear when Oliva starts trying, as he almost immediately defeats Ron and the same attack that Ron used to badly damage Oliva just moments prior can’t even leave a mark, with Ron actually breaking his fingers on Oliva’s muscles. Oliva even specifically outlines that this happens because he’s actually tensing his muscles now. While I think 9-A, likely far higher is a fair rating because I’d place him at 8-B, maybe possibly Low 7-C at most based off of his showings against Oliva, Ron scaling anywhere near Kaku, who’s Xiao-Lee scales between Oliva and casual base Yujiro, makes 0 sense. Another example of the difference between Oliva and full power Oliva is a later fight where Oliva is fighting Low 7-C Che Guevara as an equal, until Oliva decides to end the fight, where Che is oneshot, with this level of power being compared to Yujiro by Baki. In short, in terms of what we’re told combined with narrative implications and the scaling behind it, 7-C Ron does not make sense.



As for Retsu, Katsumi, and Motobe, Itagaki Keisuke makes it very clear in fights when someone does and does not scale. Retsu versus Pickle was made very clear that the only real damage Retsu ever caused Pickle was by reflecting Pickle’s force back at him. Not only does Pickle later think to himself that he only feared Retsu’s technique, but he only ever acknowledges the physical strength of Jack, Hanayama, and Yujiro. Even Baki, who is leagues stronger than Retsu at this point, is stated almost 10 times to only be able to harm Pickle through techniques and skill. Also, when Retsu fought Musashi, he was High 8-C, Retsu’s AP. Retsu doesn’t even scale to Baki, who could tank an 8-B hit from an imaginary Yujiro, and he definitely doesn’t have any feats or scaling to consistently place him in 7-C. Katsumi literally only posed a threat to Pickle specifically because of the Hitless Blow. The entire fight was basically “Katsumi is dangerous because of the Hitless Blow, but Pickle’s still way stronger than even that.” For Motobe, simply put, him surviving any hit from Yujiro ever is PIS. Motobe straight up says during his fight with Baki that if it had been a real fight, things would’ve gone way differently, and Motobe never actually hurt Baki, he just blind-sided him and snuck up on him. With Jack, he literally says “Jack Hammer, there’s no possible way, I could ever go toe to toe with you”, only ever beating him with weapons and again, not scaling consistently to even the potential Low 7-C to 7-C Jack without weapons.



In conclusion: I agree with 7-C Jack. It’s made 100% clear that Jack’s fist is what Pickle feared, denoting his strength. 7-C Retsu I don’t agree with. It isn’t consistent for his character narratively, and even with Xiao-Lee, he couldn’t tank a full power Musashi slash. He barely even negated a slash from Musashi with a trash sword. Him drawing blood seems more like an artistic choice from Keisuke (hell, in the recent chapters, Hanayama literally oneshot someone and they were still able to bruise/scuff up his face) or a PIS outlier. Keisuke very rarely does the “one fighter is so strong, they don’t take damage” thing, fighters usually end up with at least bruising even if their opponent is vastly weaker. For 7-C Hanayama, I could go either way. He bruised Yujiro with a hit, but it was only a bruise. He definitely scales to Pickle in lifting strength for being able to hold him back, but I could go either way on Hana. For Musashi, I don’t necessarily agree that his durability should be 7-C. He gets oneshot fairly often at the beginning of the arc, fighting evenly with Retsu and Doppo, 2 (more) consistently High 8-C characters, whereas 7-C Baki oneshot him, 7-C Hanayama almost killed him in like 3 moves, Yujiro oneshot him, and Jack thought he could actually win even after Retsu’s fate. Motobe should only be 7-C with weapons FRA. Doppo is not even 8-B currently. We’ve been given 0 indications that he currently even approaches his Prime level of power, let alone surpassed it. Also, Taketsurugi was one of the weaker sumo, Shachi was one of the physically stronger ones, and Hana quite literally oneshot Shachi basically twice, with Shachi only slightly bruised Hana (the bare minimum damage Keisuke usually draws on a person). There’s so much of a gap between Hana and Shachi, Keisuke wrote an entire chapter about how badly Shachi was KO’d. Ron is only at best 8-B FRA. Doyle, I could go either way. It does seem to be an outlier, but I’m interested to see what others think.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm not making the argument that Ron would scale directly to Oliva. I'm saying he drew blood, and that should be enough for him to backscale.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm not making the argument that Ron would scale directly to Oliva. I'm saying he drew blood, and that should be enough for him to backscale.

True, though I don’t think he’d backscale to 7-C. Even Che was considered a challenge for Baki, or at least presented as much, and he was one of the 3 men deemed to be stronger than a machine gun (Yujiro, Oliva, and Che). Oliva oneshot him at full strength, and Ron likely scales even below Che due to Ron not being one of the 3. I suppose 8-A isn’t out of the realm of possibility, but Kaku’s son, whom Baki oneshot, was portrayed as comparable to Ron. Ron would be in the oneshot range of Baki, who would be comparable to Che in base at the time

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

baki > che tho. prolly before the back amp too.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Just so everyone is clear with what you're proposing, could you tell us where the 8-B, Low 7-C, and 7-C feats come from currently?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Just so everyone is clear with what you're proposing, could you tell us where the 8-B, Low 7-C, and 7-C feats come from currently?

Everyone that is currently 7-C scales to being narratively considered near Yujiro in power, namely his feat of stopping the earthquake. For example, Oliva is either stated or implied to be near Yujiro 2-3 times, with Yujiro’s then showing that even his earthquake feat was him holding back immensely, as he basically 2 shots Oliva. Low 7-Cs are the characters that generally scale massively above the mid tiers such as Katsumi, Retsu, and Doppo, but below the likes of people who scale to Yujiro. For example, Jack, who was able to force Pickle to use his full strength in base form (massively +15 KT), but this power stomps Jack (though its worth noting that Pickle feared Jack for his physical strength), or Che basically being to Oliva what Oliva is to Yujiro. Baki, despite having the ability to instantly discern one’s true fighting potential, wasn’t sure whether or not he’d have to fight Che or Oliva for the position of no. 1 Freest Man until the fight actually took place, but Oliva’s full strength washed Che easily. 8-B for Ron is a compromise for everyone. Consistently, taking into consideration narrative intent and more consistent scaling, Ron would be 9-A, but even I think a 9-A hurting a 7-C even with casual durability is inconsistent at best, straight up stupid at worst, but for reasons mention, those points have lead me to believe that 7-C Ron is inconsistent all things considered, so 8-B or 8-A Ron is a happy medium that takes into consideration that he harmed a casual Oliva, however he in no way scales to the likes of Che, Oliva at full power, Baki, etc. Also, based on his showings against Oliva, Ron did better against a casual Oliva (actually damaging him) than Prime Doppo did against casual Yujiro (stunned him, but did not damage him).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok but where do these tiers come from. It seems to me like you're pulling Low 7-C and 8-B out of nowhere. 7-C, I get. It comes from Yujiro stopping an earthquake. But if people backscale from that, they should still be within the 7-C tier. At the absolute least, they would be Low 7-C+ if 7-C was baseline.

Edit: It has also just occurred to me that Yujiro was the one who performed the High 8-C feat. Why does anyone scale to it?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Ok but where do these tiers come from. It seems to me like you're pulling Low 7-C and 8-B out of nowhere. 7-C, I get. It comes from Yujiro stopping an earthquake. But if people backscale from that, they should still be within the 7-C tier. At the absolute least, they would be Low 7-C+ if 7-C was baseline.

Edit: It has also just occurred to me that Yujiro was the one who performed the High 8-C feat. Why does anyone scale to it?

To answer the question of why Low 7-C, I honestly can’t 100% answer why that was decided, as I wasn’t apart of the wiki when that decision was made, however, there is a narrative and consistent gap big enough that even baseline 7-C wouldn’t be accurate for characters in this range, as many of them are getting oneshot by people in the Yujiro EQ feat (only 3x baseline).

As for High 8-C, it’s a bit complicated, but it is solid. Basically, Yujiro no-sold the High 8-C lightning bolt with 0 damage taken (to the point that he doesn’t even break stride or blink). High 8-C originally stems from Prime Doppo doing more to Yujiro than the lightning bolt, with the possibly 8-B referring to Prime Doppo possibly scaling to the imaginary Yujiro EQ feat. Anyone who scales around Prime Doppo would be a candidate for High 8-C, though I would like to say that it’s actually incredibly difficult to see this reflected in the profiles, and I think the High 8-C rating should be more clearly articulated if we decide to keep it on

Edit: as for 8-B, I actually think 8-A, possibly Low 7-C may be more consistent, though I’ll wait to decide for sure, as Ron is likely in the oneshot range for Che who is in the oneshot range for FP Oliva, who at most is 3x baseline

 

[BakiHanma18]

If it helps to straighten out the Low 7-C ordeal, 3 people I believe can help are HI3, Amlad, and Antron. I believe they were on site while this decision was made

 

[Tllmbrg]

So out of nowhere
Literally out of nowhere
Just backscale then of the actual tiers we have ffs

 

[BakiHanma18]

So out of nowhere
Literally out of nowhere
Just backscale then of the actual tiers we have ffs

No, as I said directly prior to this comment, I said I wasn’t around for that decision, and I specifically outlined 3 individuals to contact for that information...

I fail to see how my not knowing where a rating comes from means it came out of nowhere. If it is on the current profiles (which it is), it’s because it was agreed upon in a CRT and implemented according to those results. To make sure profiles are as accurate as we can make them, we should discuss with the individuals that came to the Low 7-C rating conclusion to figure out what their logic was and whether or not we still agree it applies.

 

[Antvasima]

@Hl3_or_bust @Amlad22 @Anttron224

Are you willing to help out with input here?

 

[BakiHanma18]

I’ve also messaged Amlad with a bit of a rundown of the current discussion and questions. Thanks for @ them, Ant

 

[Tllmbrg]

@BakiHanma18 If there's no one here who actually knows why we have those tiers I'm gonna treat it like they came from nowhere until the other people actually tell why

 

[BakiHanma18]

@BakiHanma18 If there's no one here who actually knows why we have those tiers I'm gonna treat it like they came from nowhere until the other people actually tell why

Ant has @ them each, and I’ve message Amlad directly, so hopefully, those involved with the rating will be here to give justification for their decision. It is your prerogative how you choose to view the scaling, but it would be reckless to completely disregard the conclusion of the last CRT, hence why I’m at least giving them a chance to defend their position, as, if Low 7-C did actually come from nowhere, it wouldn’t have been accepted in the first place.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Yes it could very easily have since for some reason even when someone hurts someone else (Rest hurting Pickle, no technique usage does not matter since even then that'd be something that translates to his AP) everyone goes "but AcTuAlLy"

There's no Low 7-C calc for Baki so the only option I can see is that someone is BSing

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yes it could very easily have since for some reason even when someone hurts someone else (Rest hurting Pickle, no technique usage does not matter since even then that'd be something that translates to his AP) everyone goes "but AcTuAlLy"

There's no Low 7-C calc for Baki so the only option I can see is that someone is BSing

That’s the problem with being unfamiliar with a verse: not knowing things like light bruising or drawing blood doesn’t inherently mean consistent scaling can plant a wedge in meaningful communication. For example, New Grappler Baki drew blood from Oliva during the Prison Inmate saga, but if we ignored the fact that damaging someone in Baki doesn’t always mean someone scales, Inmate arc Baki would be 7-C, meaning basically the entire verse would be 7-C via backscaling and scaling, which makes less than no sense.

That may be the case, but I’m unwilling to accuse anyone of anything until I hear from someone who has knowledge of the CRT.

Edit: in any event, it’s late where I am, so I’m gunna hit the hay. I’ll do my best to respond to anything when I wake up, and hopefully someone knowledgeable on the Low 7-C scaling can answer any further questions

 

[Tllmbrg]

>Unfamiliar with the verse
>Literally have read everything translated in Baki

Okay bud, also I'd support that (Even tho I want to nuke 7-C rating in general but that's a different discussion)

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

While I agree with this, I do want to note that it's basically a canonical thing that Oliva's durability scales with how serious he is. That Ron fight is a good example, because the latter goes from manhandling Oliva to breaking his fists trying to punch him, but that's also pretty clearly because his muscles were relaxed, not because his entire body got weaker.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Also, 7-C is probably going at some point, but that's not a huge problem.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I've mentioned that the tier really doesn't matter, because they would scale the same either way.

 

[Antvasima]

Sir_Ovens seems to make sense to me, but I am not the best person to ask.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Yeah, the tier changing isn't a huge problem, I just wanted to make sure people were aware.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Amlad22]

Apologies to everyone for being late to this. Uni has been rough.

Anyway, some of this is correct.

To quickly address tiers, Low 7-C comes from Baki being equal to Oliva with Demon Back (15KT). Demon Back is at least 4x Base which puts base SOO Baki at 3.75KT. 8-B comes from the new earthquake Calc.



Jack has been in need of an upgrade. He got pretty massive buffs alongside Hanayama in SOO and Dou. He’s strong enough that Pickle was afraid of him and actually used his full strength for the first time. Granted Jack got murked after that but the fact that he needed it was the feat itself. Low 7-C probably fits best like what Che and Hana have. He shouldn’t be above Baki either.



Shobun is in a grey area. We know he’s above 9-A (obviously) but he’s so much weaker than Oliva it’s not even funny. I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about Oliva not being as durable when he’s not serious. It’s a mechanic in basically every martial arts verse ever that tightening your muscles makes you more durable. Just because there isn’t a special kata and named technique like what Kengan has doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in Baki when it’s shown and stated many times to be a thing. Itagaki goes out of his way to make it clear for us as well. Shobun makes Oliva bleed, but then shatters his hand attempting the exact same attack on the exact same area because Oliva “tightened his muscles for real”. Shobun also only harmed Oliva with pressure point attacks that targeted vital areas of the body. So there’s that as well. The best part is that even though Oliva said he was tightening his muscles for real, he was still holding back considerably. We have confirmation from the narrator in SOO that Che was the first person to ever make him use his full power in the series. Shobun was nothing to Oliva. I believe he should scale to 8-B+ where the second earthquake feat was calced at as even Low 7-C is absurdly inconsistent with everything we know. However, Low 7-C is still less inconsistent than 7-C. So we might put him there.



Retsu, Katsumi without Mach Punch, Doppo, Motobe and Musashi’s durability are nowhere near 7-C. You’re cherry picking certain points that are absurdly inconsistent when looking at everything and in some cases your points are just wrong.



Retsu only harmed Pickle with a counter. His regular attacks did zero damage to Pickle and couldn’t even faze him. There was an entire chapter where Retsu used the windmill punch to hit Pickle as hard as he could and Pickle just stood there taking zero damage from a barrage of Retsu’s full power strikes. The entire fight was Itagaki showing us that Retsu was no match for Pickle and couldn’t harm him. Even if the last attack wasn’t a counter, we would treat it as PIS or just an inconsistency with the last 5 chapters prior. I’ll get to Musashi in a second.



Your point on Katsumi is just wrong. Pickle didn’t see him as a threat UNTIL he pulled out the Mach Punch. Only then did Katsumi become a threat in Pickle’s eyes. His prior attacks did zero damage just like Retsu’s and he struggled to stand up after taking a playful kick from Pickle. The other proof of Katsumi not being anywhere near 7-C is what a 7-C attack does to his body. The True Mach Punch is a low end 7-C attack at best since it only did minor damage to Pickle, yet it completely obliterated Katsumi’s arm. Katsumi’s body was destroyed from simply using a 7-C attack. If that doesn’t explain it to you that Katsumi isn’t 7-C normally idk what will.



Musashi stomps everyone yes, but it’s not because he’s durable. He’s the most obvious, in your face glass canon we’ve had in Baki. He’s very fast and can slice through anything. That’s his gimmick. He’s not bulletproof like the other 7-C’s, he‘s consistently taken heavy damage from characters who are not 7-C and he can’t take hits from actual 7-C’s. At best him not dying from 7-C’s is inconsistent with the majority of his feats.



Your points with Motobe are wrong again as well. He never stomped Baki. He tricked Baki and got behind him with a weapon before Baki could react. He later admits that if he actually attacked Baki with intent to kill, Baki’s instincts would have kicked in and he would have dodged. Please go ahead and tell me how that is “stomping” Baki. He didn’t stomp Jack either. They had an extremely close fight that could have gone either way despite Motobe wearing ******* armour and bringing every weapon on the planet to the fight. He states himself that he’s nowhere near Jack physically and needs all of his equipment to stand a chance. Again, zero feats that back up 7-C. He can be 7-C with weapons, that’s it.



Do I really need to explain why the Rikishi are not 7-C? My god we might as well put Rob Robinson at 7-C at this point. If I actually need to explain why they aren’t I’ll do it but this comment is long enough already so I’ll cut it here.



The fact that you say Doyle’s feat is an outlier after all of your previous points made me chuckle tbh, but you’re actually incorrect here. Doyle‘s higher rating comes from his blades. It’s not for his physical tier. This one I’m sure was just an honest mistake on your part. In case it’s not clear to anyone else though, his blades defiantly deserve a higher rating since they can harm people above his physical tier and have never not been shown to do so.



I hope I’ve cleared things up. There’s some changes that defiantly have been well needed but majority of this is just cherry picking inconsistencies or just blatantly incorrect information. I know this is big as well and I apologize for that but I didn’t want to leave much out.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Ngl but that's more convincing then 90% of Baki stuff I heard in the last few months

 

[Antvasima]

Amlad22:

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Except that most of this doesn't work in literally every other verse. Why are we creating this vacuum of standards that only apply to Grappler Baki?

In any other verse, drawing blood is enough to scale. Frisk did less than a fraction of damage to Flowey but scales. Iron Man's best efforts only drew a drop of blood out of Thanos and yet he still scales.

This isn't even addressing the clear breaking of the laws of physics. If Musashi had 7-C AP and 8-B dura, he would have shattered his arms trying to swing his swords. This isn't some fantasy or sci-fi verse where one can have a separate AP through a stronger weapon or magic. This is a verse that's about as grounded in reality as it gets in terms of setting.

Katsumi, maybe I get. But characters like Retsu and Ron absolutely should scale higher. I get that maybe Oliva has higher dura with his muscles flexed. Ok. But there's this one crucial concept you're forgetting: you can stomp someone else in the same tier as you. Hell, Retsu could block Pickle's blows after his instinctive reactions kicked in. Xiao Lee did jack to stop Musashi's blows so he was taking in the full force of his attacks.

Regardless. Pointless back and forth won't get us anywhere. I'll post the scans of everything I've mentioned above and let the people decide.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I honestly have no clue where the idea of Musashi being a glass cannon came from

There's absolutely no evidence for this in the series itself. Musashi is less durable than most characters, yes, and tends to intentionally take hits to experience them, certainly, but the fact he wasn't instantly reduced to a puddle of gore after taking Baki's first hit in their first fight should show that he just is not a glass cannon in any way