Baki CRT 2: Son of Ogre

[NotoriouSoda]

So here is the second CRT of the Baki verse that is going to come throughout the months.

Now we come to probably the most annoying part of Baki; Scaling.

Now scaling the God Tiers won't be a problem. But the scaling for the top tiers and the rest will be.

I will be open to suggestions however will shoot down any scaling that has been already addressed

Spoiler: Yujiro scaling

Baki(SOG) Baki(Dou), Baki(DouII), Pickle, Musashi Miyamoto, Yuichiro Hanma, Kaku Kaioh

So don't worry this won't be the only scaling, this is just the people who directly scale to Yujiro. And the fun part is to find all the people who scale off the character who scale to Yujiro lol.

Spoiler: Character who scales but from different characters

Goki Aiki, Kyogei, T-Rex, Deinonychus, Nomi no Sukune ll, Katsumi Hitless Blow, Jack(Doull), Kaoru,

The rest is to figure out who downscales to other characters will post characters later

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Also 9-A characters in Baki are going to become 8-C as well so it’s a nice upgrade

 

[Armorchompy]

typo in title

crt rejected

 

[NotoriouSoda]

typo in title

crt rejected

reported for harassment

 

[Theendzero13]

Ok now i personally think:

- yujiro should have at least 7-C (scalong fully to his own feat), higher with demon back

People who scale to base or demon back yujiro should have the same tier as him

People who somewhat scale but are clearly far inferior should downscale to baseline 7-C

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Ok now i personally think:

- yujiro should have at least 7-C (scalong fully to his own feat), higher with demon back

People who scale to base or demon back yujiro should have the same tier as him

People who somewhat scale but are clearly far inferior should downscale to baseline 7-C

Yeah that was my thought as well. Want to bring in more Baki supporters for this lol.

Like two characters that stand out in mind for this are Prime Doppo and SOO Retsu characters who don’t fully scale but are still kinda in that tier

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Also for the 8-C rating

Retsu can damage Jyaku back that can tank 9x the damage of the front

0.035 x 9 = 0.315 8-C

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

After finish this verse
Can you make Borderland upgrade CRT that you said you gonna make it last month?

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Bump

What do y’all think of the scaling so far and the 8-C rating?

 

[Theendzero13]

Bump

What do y’all think of the scaling so far and the 8-C rating?

I would like to see the scan who supports 8-C

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I would like to see the scan who supports 8-C

Retsu can damage Jyaku back that can tank 9x the damage of the front
(3:20)

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

Oliva is 7-C now?

 

[Twellas]

Yeah that was my thought as well. Want to bring in more Baki supporters for this lol.

Like two characters that stand out in mind for this are Prime Doppo and SOO Retsu characters who don’t fully scale but are still kinda in that tier

One thing I always wanted to ask, is "prime Doppo" an actual thing? Because to me it seems like a coping mechanism the fandom created to justify Doppo's loss of importance; to my knowledge there is a single statement that even remotely implies that Doppo is gonna get weaker after his fight with Yujiro and it's not even definitive, it's along the lines of "for how many more years can he be in his prime?". Every person I've asked this to responded with some variation of "he went from fighting Yujiro to losing to Ali Jr", which is not an actual argument, but it's such a widely accepted concept in the comunity that I'm curious to see the evidence behind it.
Regardless, the Maximum Tournament doesn't take place long after his fight with Yujiro, so he should still be at least comparable to his "prime" self and Katsumi is stated multiple times to be better than him in every possible stat besides grit and experience, meaning that everyone who scales to MT Doppo or MT Katsumi would logically scale to the Yujiro who performed the earthquake feat, which in turn would mean that every single character in the prisoner arc scales aswell and so on and so forth, but that's just my crackhead scaling for Baki (god knows I go crazy on Baki scaling, y'all are not ready to hear my takes)

One thing I'll put my foot down for is Hanayama>Pickle, and I'm gonna die on this hill

 

[Twellas]

In fact, Hanayama should 100% just scale to Musashi, he literally tanked multiple slashes from bloodlusted Niten Ichi Musashi with Tokugawa's sword; Baki saw Musashi go full power and was like "yeah, your guys are equal, it's 50/50 on who wins", and I think we can agree that Baki knows what he's talking about. Hanayama seemed to perform worse than he actually did merely because of his brainlet fighting style which allowed Musashi to run circles around him.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

In fact, Hanayama should 100% just scale to Musashi, he literally tanked multiple slashes from bloodlusted Niten Ichi Musashi with Tokugawa's sword; Baki saw Musashi go full power and was like "yeah, your guys are equal, it's 50/50 on who wins", and I think we can agree that Baki knows what he's talking about. Hanayama seemed to perform worse than he actually did merely because of his brainlet fighting style which allowed Musashi to run circles around him.

Nah I agree lmao my boi Hanayama always had the scaling for the god tier (he literally fought Pickle and Musashi for ***** sake). I find it funny because the one person I blame for the Baki pages being trash for the longest time was saying that Hanayama doesn’t get 7-C because he better at tanking cutting attacks than physical hit ( despite the fact that makes no sense)

Nah but the one thing Baki is known for is it’s inconsistent of scaling. I don’t think everyone should scales to 7-C (as spec being 7-C is just cursed) but to answer your question to the best I can I think it comes multiple things. Especially for Prime Doppo he did decent against a casual Yujiro but once Yujiro like actually tried he job incredibly hard. And for my memory Doppo got beat to an inch to his life and lost his eye in the fight, like the people who saw Doppo got weaker to have a legitimate reason for thinking so. Also some Baki characters especially early on get hype up to be comparable to Yujiro. Like I’m pretty sure Gaia was compared to Yujiro which is honestly funny af

 

[Twellas]

Especially for Prime Doppo he did decent against a casual Yujiro but once Yujiro like actually tried he job incredibly hard. And for my memory Doppo got beat to an inch to his life and lost his eye in the fight, like the people who saw Doppo got weaker to have a legitimate reason for thinking so.

Nah, Doppo was very clearly at least equal to base Yuji, he almost punched a hole through his chest in the first fight and he was generally beating the **** out of Base Yujiro, who very clearly was forced to use Demon Back. It's also worth noting that Baki, after seeing Yujiro perform the Earthquake feat, saw Doppo spar and went like "you are gonna stomp Yujiro", meaning he considers him to be much stronger than the Yujiro who performed the 7-C feat.
Also, Yujiro was blatantly overpowered by Kureha. While it is true that these feats are from the very start of the series and it's just wrong to see ******* KUREHA scale to Yujiro, it's also true that they were never retconned, so Kureha>7-C Yujiro, which is cool as ****.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Nah, Doppo was very clearly at least equal to base Yuji, he almost punched a hole through his chest in the first fight and he was generally beating the **** out of Base Yujiro, who very clearly was forced to use Demon Back. It's also worth noting that Baki, after seeing Yujiro perform the Earthquake feat, saw Doppo spar and went like "you are gonna stomp Yujiro", meaning he considers him to be much stronger than the Yujiro who performed the 7-C feat.
Also, Yujiro was blatantly overpowered by Kureha. While it is true that these feats are from the very start of the series and it's just wrong to see ******* KUREHA scale to Yujiro, it's also true that they were never retconned, so Kureha>7-C Yujiro, which is cool as ****.

I mean yeah it’s not that I don’t think Prime Doppo doesn’t scale he at least shouldish but I think your forgetting a few things. I don’t know if this was the anime or the manga but Yujiro in that fight was lying about his injuries (they say that Yujiro ribs were broken which was immediately prove false) and it’s also Yujiro personality to underestimate his opponents.

Also again I don’t really think we should use early Baki for that many examples when they are comparing other characters to Yujiro like ‘You can totally defeat him’ or ‘Hes just as strong’ because it’s usually not the case or gets immediately proven false.

Also Doppo got completely destroyed in that fight when Yujiro got serious. Like chunks of meat and losing an eye bad, Doppo got permanently weaker after the fight and it’s really not that hard to see why else he would have never struggled with the convicts, Sumos, etc. I would say he’s definitely gotten more skilled but is still weaker. Prime Doppo just downscales hard but is still 7-C ish.

Also that Kureha feat would at best just be lifting strength and it wouldn’t translate to AP at all.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

But I don’t really gaf about Prime Doppo, I’m more of a SOO Retsu guy myself and tbh both him and PD downscale heavily to 7-C

 

[Twellas]

Also Doppo got completely destroyed in that fight when Yujiro got serious. Like chunks of meat and losing an eye bad

It's not that Yujiro "got serious", it's that he went Demon Back, which is very clearly a multiplier (or power boost, if you don't buy the multiplier, still, much stronger than base), Doppo was still clapping Base Yujiro's cheeks and he actively felt the need to use Demon Back, and by "clapping" I mean Yujiro couldn't land a single hit on Doppo, who was making his hands bleed just by blocking his attacks and Yujiro thinks to himself that he cannot dodge Doppo's attacks; Yujiro looked like this throughout the whole thing, it's very clear that he wasn't going soft on Doppo or anything of the sort. Even after Yujiro went DB and became clearly superior to him, the narrator still implies that Doppo could have killed him if given the chance.

Doppo got permanently weaker after the fight and it’s really not that hard to see why else he would have never struggled with the convicts, Sumos, etc.

This is exactly what I said in my first comment; this is not an argument, you're basically saying that because they are not as hyped up as Yujiro they are automatically weaker by default even if the scaling holds up. Yeah, Yuji stomps these guys, but it's also true that he constantly gets much stronger, so it's not that far fetched to say that, say, a NGB character could scale to GB Yujiro while being decisively weaker than NGB Yujiro.
You gotta prove that Doppo got weaker, because him losing to people who aren't as hyped is not an argument. And "of course he got weaker, he lost an eye and his heart stopped" is also not an argument, Doppo is the same guy who had a hand chopped off and his face blown off in the same arc and shrugged it off.

Also that Kureha feat would at best just be lifting strength and it wouldn’t translate to AP at all.

In Baki grip strength and punching strength have an almost 1:1 correlation.

 

[Amlad22]

I think most of that scaling is fine except for Kyogei. He only beat Aiki with lifting strength and isn’t even the strongest of the rikishi. Reihou should scale instead of him since he actually hurt Sukune. I’d say Reihou and Oliva should both have possibly 7-C ratings based on their feats.

Retsu is strong but I wouldn’t even give him a possibly 7-C since Musashi literally one shot him the moment he decided to end things. It’s like how Pickle one shot Jack in SOO the moment he got serious.

Prime Doppo does NOT scale to Yujiro. We’ve been over this a lot in many, many threads but the manga of the original series is not accurate which is why the anime rewrites or even straight up removes a lot of the questionable scenes. If we went off the manga, Kureha would be 7-C for overpowering Yujiro and Motobe would be 7-C for forcing demon back out. Baki is full of inconsistencies but the worst thing you can do for it is look at the original manga for feats. Once we look at the anime we can see that it better depicts Yujiro based on how Itagaki ended up writing him. When the first manga came out he was never meant to be an unstoppable god, he was just a strong guy.

Simply put, Doppo wasn’t able to hurt Yujiro and was nearly one shot by a single direct hit. Sangan gave him the ability to react and parry Yujiro’s strikes but that’s not a feat of AP or durability. You could maybe give him a possibly 7-C rating like Oliva and Reihou but they both straight up have better feats.

Also the 8-C thing is pretty dumb if you ask me. I think the cast is fine at 9-A based on actual feats.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Thanks for coming in Amlad lol. I glad your here to help out. Also to add on to the Doppo stuff wasn’t there a clip and a chapter in the manga where Yujiro just destroyed Doppo in a restaurant with zero difficulty?

 

[Twellas]

We’ve been over this a lot in many, many threads but the manga of the original series is not accurate which is why the anime rewrites or even straight up removes a lot of the questionable scenes. If we went off the manga, Kureha would be 7-C for overpowering Yujiro and Motobe would be 7-C for forcing demon back out. Baki is full of inconsistencies but the worst thing you can do for it is look at the original manga for feats. Once we look at the anime we can see that it better depicts Yujiro based on how Itagaki ended up writing him. When the first manga came out he was never meant to be an unstoppable god, he was just a strong guy.

Is there like an interview or something where Itagaki went and said that the anime is a better rappresentation of how Yujiro should be and that the anime constitutes a retcon of the manga? Because if not, then it's just glorified headcanon and it doesn't matter, since the manga is the og source and takes precedence.
As I said, it's absolutely bizarre to see Yujiro get tagged and overwhelmed by people in light of what his character became, but it's there, it's in the manga and (from what I know, which is why I'm asking) it hasn't been retcon, which means that we have to deal with it, we can't erase the first 50 chapters of the series because they are not convenient to our powerscaling.

In fact, Hanayama should 100% just scale to Musashi, he literally tanked multiple slashes from bloodlusted Niten Ichi Musashi with Tokugawa's sword; Baki saw Musashi go full power and was like "yeah, your guys are equal, it's 50/50 on who wins", and I think we can agree that Baki knows what he's talking about. Hanayama seemed to perform worse than he actually did merely because of his brainlet fighting style which allowed Musashi to run circles around him.

What about this; do you think this holds up?

 

[Twellas]

Also man, it feels so weird to scale CURRENT top tiers to a feat Yujiro performed while being, like, unquantifiably weaker. If we take what Baki and Strydum say, Dou Yuji would deatomize GB Yuji with a stare. I will never understand why we don't use the nuke statements, ngl.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Also man, it feels so weird to scale CURRENT top tiers to a feat Yujiro performed while being, like, unquantifiably weaker. If we take what Baki and Strydum say, Dou Yuji would deatomize GB Yuji with a stare. I will never understand why we don't use the nuke statements, ngl.

If you have the scans I’m willing to see them again. Tho the reason they were refused is because they weren’t that supported

 

[Amlad22]

Thats the thing though the manga literally has been retconned by the anime. Every scene with Yujiro fighting was either modified or straight up removed during production. Motobe forcing demon back out was changed. Doppo making Yujiro bleed was changed as well as Yujiro being scared of Doppo. And then scenes where it was impossible to do a quick fix were straight up removed like the doorknob scene.

Although I do agree Hanayama defiantly should scale above Musashi. I mean it’s pretty simple, he took 10 serious strikes before going down and Musashi admitted 4 strikes from Hanayama would be enough to defeat him.

As for the nuke statements the simple fact of the matter is that they are just statements with no actual feats behind them. If we use the statements it pushes the verse to a much higher level than any feat a character has done on screen. It’s like how Whitebeard is said multiple times to be a life wiper in One Piece but the best feats of the verse are nowhere near multi continental.

 

[Twellas]

Thats the thing though the manga literally has been retconned by the anime. Every scene with Yujiro fighting was either modified or straight up removed during production. Motobe forcing demon back out was changed. Doppo making Yujiro bleed was changed as well as Yujiro being scared of Doppo. And then scenes where it was impossible to do a quick fix were straight up removed like the doorknob scene.

But how can the anime "retcon" the manga when the manga is by definition the primary source that supercedes the anime? As I said, unless you have some kind of statement from Itagaki that proves that the anime takes precedence over the manga when it comes to the first chapter, the anime changing stuff around simply doesn't matter, because it's a secondary, less valuable source.

 

[Amlad22]

The anime is in no way a less valuable source when it fixes a large chunk of the scaling issues. If we go off the manga 99% of the verse would scale directly to Yujiro and would all be 7-C. It’s not happening.

 

[Twellas]

You know that "fixing scaling issues" is not a thing that exists, right? You're essentially saying "the anime fits better with my view of the series"; scaling has no bearing on canonicity, especially since the scaling isn't even contraddicted (The Strydum statement easily explains away how Yuji coild still be stronger than everyone else post GB), it simply feels weird due to how the character went on to be portrayed.
But I get why the wiki wouldn't like the manga scaling and everyone scaling to the earthquake feat, so, whatever

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So with that issue solved lol do y’all want to proceed with the scaling since the Prime Doppo question was answered. Is there anyone else that I’m missing?

 

[Amlad22]

The scaling fits better with Itagaki’s view of the series which changed drastically in the later half of Grappler Baki, not mine.

@NotoriouSoda

What’s the scaling looking like right now? We really need to be careful here not to replicate what happened last time where everyone started scaling.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So a new thing appeared to my attention. The Yujiro vs Pickle strength test was a mis translation. It turns out that Pickle did overwhelmed Yujiro in that exchange. Does this mean class M Pickle? And if I remember that this is consistent because like… I don’t believe anyone outside of Musashi fair well against him

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree 100% with Amald.


Also I'd say Hana should only get a "possibly." 7-C for scaling to Musashi. He did endure the slashes but they still cut deep into him so he wouldn't scale fully to Musashi.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So a new thing appeared to my attention. The Yujiro vs Pickle strength test was a mis translation. It turns out that Pickle did overwhelmed Yujiro in that exchange. Does this mean class M Pickle? And if I remember that this is consistent because like… I don’t believe anyone outside of Musashi fair well against him

I agree 100% with Amald.

Thoughts on this bro?

 

[Twellas]

So a new thing appeared to my attention. The Yujiro vs Pickle strength test was a mis translation. It turns out that Pickle did overwhelmed Yujiro in that exchange. Does this mean class M Pickle? And if I remember that this is consistent because like… I don’t believe anyone outside of Musashi fair well against him

Hanayama just straight up scales above Pickle in grip strength and general lifting strength via the fight with Musashi, so yeah, he should scale too

 

[Amlad22]

We shouldn’t confuse grip strength feats with striking feats. Yujiro and Pickle were pushing against one another which isn’t a lifting strength feat at all. Class M should really only be reserved for Nomi and possibly Yujiro since Baki considers him to be “possibly” the only person on the planet who can replicate Nomi’s grip feat. Going from that Pickle is fine at Class 100. Hanayama could be on Yujiro’s level grip wise but he have no way of knowing with the lack of feats. All we know is he’s way above Musashi who matched base Pickle in grip strength.

 

[Galaxi789]

I do not think hanayama should climb mushashi seems true outlier when you see that the best hit hanayama does not even affect yujiro and I send it to fly logically this very contradichi himself mushashi put with someone level yujuro neither dou 2 he gets hanayama as a power level of nomi sukune or yujiro or bakk himself

 

[Galaxi789]

The best thing he did was take a picket lunge and Jack or Katsumki retsu did no better.

 

[Amlad22]

Musashi’s physical stats are vastly inferior to Yujiro’s. We see this in their fight when Yujiro nearly one shots him with a slap. Musashi scales closer to Yujiro with his swords.

Knowing this there’s nothing wrong with Hanayama scaling above Musashi and somewhat scaling to Yujiro. It still took him 4 punches to essentially do what Yujiro did with 1 slap which is KO Musashi.

 

[Luca]

What about yujiro and Baki scale to Katsumi speed has we know yujiro can dodge ligthing which is 1/3 the speed of light and Baki can punch a jab faster than light