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Fixing Verses Part 2: Baki

ShadowSythez

ShadowSythez

243
86
So my first crt seems to be going pretty well so I thought I would start my next crt which should be quicker. I will be focusing on the speed calculations and will likely come back if I see any bad Ap calculations (Baki Verse).

Yujiro dodges lightning
So this was the calculation that I saw first. The math is fine (even though they just provided a link) but the assumptions aren't fine. The creator of the calculation assumes that Yujiro dodges the lightning from the height of the panel, this assumption wanks the numbers and isn't really reliable especially since it could be considered an outlier for the verse. I would fix the calc by instead saying Yujiro dodged it when it came out of the clouds.

New calculation would put this feat at 209.52 m/s (Subsonic)

Musashi attempts a blitz
I'm not to knowledgable on the verse so I'll just copy and paste a comment from the original post and see where it takes me.

This isn't even good for a possibility, it's straight up unusable. Since when was Tokugawa a valid reference for timeframes? The guy is a normal old man who just love to watch fights and doesn't fight himself, and is known in the franchise for overhyping every fighter a little out of the norm. How come him saying "Omg that must have been less than 0.0000000... secs" gets validated?

The calculation also was never accepted in the first place so I don't think there needs to be much debate over this one.

Every other calculation seems fine.
 
Do we even use Yujiro dodging lighting? It was literally someone just talking about him and saying "He could dodge lightning!" with a visual aid. Also, mind showing me the calc that gets it to subsonic?
 
It is still preferable to have a calculation for the lightning dodging feat.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It is still preferable to have a calculation for the lightning dodging feat.
Click to expand...
If I make it (and it gets accepted) will I be able to change the rating on the profiles or would I need more approval ? The original calculation seems to have been declined a year later by the CGM who accepted it so I don't really think more approval is needed, although I may be wrong.
 
Da3ggman said:
I honestly don't think it matters tbh. Like I said before, the "feat" isn't even something we use, since it only occurs in the imagination of a character while talking about Yujiro. Rather, we scale the God Tiers to the Hitless Blow.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. I agree with you, I think its safe to remove the feat for now though since 2 calculation group members evaluated my calculation and it seems dragon agrees (I think).
 
Uhm. What exactly is wrong with this verse. I'm having a difficult time navigating the scaling. Why do they scale to high hypersonic without any calculations ?
 
Due to this image. In this video the air produced by the technigue is shown 1:02-1:08 but I have no idea if it's calculable. It displaced enough air to create a dome of air from the punch and the air moved across the whole stadium. Actually no that was still not the full technigue. He stated that the true blow was even stronger.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Due to this image. In this video the air produced by the technigue is shown 1:02-1:08 but I have no idea if it's calculable. It displaced enough air to create a dome of air from the punch and the air moved across the whole stadium.
Click to expand...

This is not relevant to the thread. I would also say its more of an AP feat if you can prove its a shockwave.
 
Da3ggman said:
Very much so. It comes from possibly the most skilled person in the verse, who has also mastered the Hitless Blow (Kaku Kaiou).
Click to expand...
I have no problem with it then. I think this thread can be closed since I've removed both calcs from the wiki.
 
Da3ggman said:
Very much so. It comes from possibly the most skilled person in the verse, who has also mastered the Hitless Blow (Kaku Kaiou).
Click to expand...
The only problem is that it's a little not specific. He states a range of measures but that's probably what one could reach at the top and Katsumi did say he had mastered it. Also a punch thrown as practice did break every single window in a room.
 
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Serlock_Holmes said:
The only problem is that it's a little not specific. He states a range of measures but that's probably what one could reach at the top and Katsumi did say he had mastered it.
Click to expand...
He says it in a way that implies that it's easy to do once you get it down like him. I doubt it would be "no problem" if he himself hadn't reached those speeds.
 
Da3ggman said:
He says it in a way that implies that it's easy to do once you get it down like him. I doubt it would be "no problem" if he himself hadn't reached those speeds.
Click to expand...
Yeah no katsumi must be even faster than this. Kaku himself said in the anime that by now katsumi has surpassed it and kaku did a supersonic easily with the joins of his hand though the video . Katsumi used every single one in his body. The difference would be tremendous. I know that the main source is the manga but the anime does give more life to the scene and helps evaluate it. Also here are the basics of the technigue though I know wikis aren't reliable it's at least good enough to have a feel for the move and we can argue about the details. Actually I think the number stated is wrong because the scan is not translated well. In the anime the scene just states one can just add thousands of joints. Again that particular scene hasn't been uploaded yet. However I just say we go by what the anime has to say about the scene as it's actually more reliable than the badly translated scan...
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
It is still preferable to have a calculation for the lightning dodging feat.
Click to expand...
Can you maybe link some members who you know are interested in the verse? I think DMUA, Blackcurrant91, Armorchompy, Cropfist and some other people that commented in this thread might want to comment here because it's kinda big.

​

 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Yeah no katsumi must be even faster than this. Kaku himself said in the anime that by now katsumi has surpassed it and kaku did a supersonic easily with the joins of his hand though the video . Katsumi used every single one in his body. The difference would be tremendous. I know that the main source is the manga but the anime does give more life to the scene and helps evaluate it. Also here are the basics of the technigue though I know wikis aren't reliable it's at least good enough to have a feel for the move and we can argue about the details. Actually I think the number stated is wrong because the scan is not translated well. In the anime the scene just states one can just add thousands of joints. Again that particular scene hasn't been uploaded yet. However I just say we go by what the anime has to say about the scene as it's actually more reliable than the badly translated scan...
Click to expand...
I would definitely not say that the anime is well-translated. There are multiple blatant errors, like them saying Pickle is 6'3 💀 . This season of Baki was quite frankly rushed as far as translating is concerned.
 
Da3ggman said:
I would definitely not say that the anime is well-translated. There are multiple blatant errors, like them saying Pickle is 6'3 💀 . This season of Baki was quite frankly rushed as far as translating is concerned.
Click to expand...
Maybe they refered to a specific part of pickle? Also considering the shockwave the punch caused the speed value still shouldn't be too bad would it? I mean it created a dome of air that was felt through the whole stadium and a match more casual punch broke every window in a considerably large room via air displacement and the shockwave was felt through the building. And even Kaku's casual move was already supersonic said again in a clip that I can't find uploaded on youtube though if someone has the episodes they can view it.
 
ShadowSythez said:
Uhm. What exactly is wrong with this verse. I'm having a difficult time navigating the scaling. Why do they scale to high hypersonic without any calculations ?
Click to expand...
oh yeah, the speed should have been downgraded, it needed a thread for that

it's just that people forgot, perhaps Shmeatywerbenmanjenson would be interested, he was a part of the downgradess when they happened
 
ShadowSythez said:
Why ? The statement comes from a reliable source from what I heard.
Click to expand...
this was the statement

20.jpg


it was treated as a hyperbole as it doesn't really confirm anything and not a single person in verse came close to that speed, the best speed feat was supersonic+ at best if i remember correctly, may be wrong tho, i don't remember the thread that well

but damn that's ******* disgusting
 
Passersby said:
this was the statement

20.jpg


it was treated as a hyperbole as it doesn't really confirm anything and not a single person in verse came close to that speed, the best speed feat was supersonic+ at best if i remember correctly, may be wrong tho, i don't remember the thread that well

but damn that's ******* disgusting
Click to expand...
You did mess up a little. Okay let me explain what has been said to the thread.

So this scan is translated badly. Watching the anime the words he says are a hundred joints? A thousands joints? No problem my friend. Which means this referred to the number of joints. Now how does that help? Well we know that Katsumi can achieve above sound speed with 27 joints which he showcased to Retsu. Then Kaku comes and basically said if you don't have joints just imagine them which in Baki verse somehow helps. Using that technigue Kaku achieves a supersonic strike with ridiculous ease using way smaller part of the body's joints. Katsumi then tries to master that technigue. Kaku explains that yes that can easily happen because Katsumi is ridiculously talented and it does actually happen. Here is Katsumi's first punch after mastering Kaku's technigue. Mind you he could do supersonic punches even before that and they did nothing in that scale. Sadly that part isn't on YT yet. Now here are the effects of the punches Katsumi used on Pickle with the first punch already producing a tremendous shochwave and it was far below his best punch which did destroy his arm. However while all that is impressive the question still remains...So how fast is the true speed of Katsumi's best punch on Pickle? So the only ways we can find that out is by finding the increase in speed done by each joint and then multiply that by their number. If you want to take a thousand which is most likely what will be chosen you have like mach 30+. You can of course count them but I personally don't that that's the best way as the artists may not want to draw the proper number and the joints are at least in the hundreds so it will be a pain in the ass to do so. Those stuff are being discussed in the baki tier 7 thread.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
You did mess up a little. Okay let me explain what has been said to the thread.

So this scan is translated badly. Watching the anime the words he says are a hundred joints? A thousands joints? No problem my friend. Which means this referred to the number of joints. Now how does that help? Well we know that Katsumi can achieve above sound speed with 27 joints which he showcased to Retsu. Then Kaku comes and basically said if you don't have joints just imagine them which in Baki verse somehow helps. Using that technigue Kaku achieves a supersonic strike with ridiculous ease using way smaller part of the body's joints. Katsumi then tries to master that technigue. Kaku explains that yes that can easily happen because Katsumi is ridiculously talented and it does actually happen. Here is Katsumi's first punch after mastering Kaku's technigue. Mind you he could do supersonic punches even before that and they did nothing in that scale. Sadly that part isn't on YT yet. Now here are the effects of the punches Katsumi used on Pickle with the first punch already producing a tremendous shochwave and it was far below his best punch which did destroy his arm. However while all that is impressive the question still remains...So how fast is the true speed of Katsumi's best punch on Pickle? So the only ways we can find that out is by finding the increase in speed done by each joint and then multiply that by their number. If you want to take a thousand which is most likely what will be chosen you have like mach 30+. You can of course count them but I personally don't that that's the best way as the artists may not want to draw the proper number and the joints are at least in the hundreds so it will be a pain in the ass to do so. Those stuff are being discussed in the baki tier 7 thread.
Click to expand...
ah, thanks for clearing out the misunderstanding

so can you tell me how that would change the speed scaling of the verse and who sill scale to it?
 
Passersby said:
ah, thanks for clearing out the misunderstanding

so can you tell me how that would change the speed scaling of the verse and who sill scale to it?
Click to expand...
That still hasn't been ironed out. Maybe Kaku and for sure Katsumi? The fact not the whole ep is in parts on Youtube makes it harder to bring up vids but Kaku did say that Katsumi mastered it (though I think he made it even better in Baki-dou but I have yet to fully read it). You could say Yujiro due to mastering everything in the verse but it's mostly guess work and it's still only that single attack. Though as you saw Katsumi can use it in every atttack. I think however that Baki has many speed feats not properly calced that may give higher ratings. Also there are talks about reinstating 7-C Yujiro but we shall see.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
That still hasn't been ironed out. Maybe Kaku and for sure Katsumi? The fact not the whole ep is in parts on Youtube makes it harder to bring up vids but Kaku did say that Katsumi mastered it (though I think he made it even better in Baki-dou but I have yet to fully read it). You could say Yujiro due to mastering everything in the verse but it's mostly guess work and it's still only that single attack. Though as you saw Katsumi can use it in every atttack. I think however that Baki has many speed feats not properly calced that may give higher ratings. Also there are talks about reinstating 7-C Yujiro but we shall see.
Click to expand...
aight, thanks man, i appreciate it
 
Passersby said:
this was the statement

20.jpg


it was treated as a hyperbole as it doesn't really confirm anything and not a single person in verse came close to that speed, the best speed feat was supersonic+ at best if i remember correctly, may be wrong tho, i don't remember the thread that well

but damn that's ******* disgusting
Click to expand...
That seems to make sense. The highest calculation on the Baki page is supersonic so high hypersonic seems like an outlier.
 
ShadowSythez said:
That seems to make sense. The highest calculation on the Baki page is supersonic so high hypersonic seems like an outlier.
Click to expand...
yup, but it seems that was a mistranslation as serlok_holmes said, it's a specific technique that brings out a single mach 30+ strike and destroys the user's arm with it

it still seems iffy tbh, but it is what it is
 
Passersby said:
yup, but it seems that was a mistranslation as serlok_holmes said, it's a specific technique that brings out a single mach 30+ strike and destroys the user's arm with it

it still seems iffy tbh, but it is what it is
Click to expand...
How many people can use it ? Since a lot of Baki profiles seem to have the high hypersonic+ rating.
 
Passersby said:
yup, but it seems that was a mistranslation as serlok_holmes said, it's a specific technique that brings out a single mach 30+ strike and destroys the user's arm with it

it still seems iffy tbh, but it is what it is
Click to expand...
It's being talked about currently in the thread I mentioned https://vsbattles.com/threads/grappler-baki-making-a-tier-7-verse-tier-7.157020/. For example there is the fact that even Katsumi's legs and kicks scale far above supersonic but below the full hitless blow as he needs a proper stance. Also that does ruin his arm and leg but not to the point of the full true hitless blow. It's interesting to note that just being supersonic does nothing to Katsumi's flesh as he showcased to Retsu and in the dojo where he was using even higher speed and his hand was perfectly fine despite using enough speed that the shockwave produced broke all windows, shook the building and even Baki heard it from at least some hundred meters away (though that might just have been the windows breaking but I doubt they would be louder.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
It's being talked about currently in the thread I mentioned https://vsbattles.com/threads/grappler-baki-making-a-tier-7-verse-tier-7.157020/. For example there is the fact that even Katsumi's legs and kicks scale far above supersonic but below the full hitless blow as he needs a proper stance. Also that does ruin his arm and leg but not to the point of the full true hitless blow. It's interesting to note that just being supersonic does nothing to Katsumi's flesh as he showcased to Retsu and in the dojo where he was using even higher speed and his hand was perfectly fine despite using enough speed that the shockwave produced broke all windows, shook the building and even Baki heard it from at least some hundred meters away (though that might just have been the windows breaking but I doubt they would be louder.
Click to expand...

i know my friend, it's a single burst technique that boosts speed quite a lot, you explained it wonderfully above

it just felt iffy because it looked like every single feat was like supersonic?
supersonic+?

mach30 is quite a big jump so it felt weird, that's really all there is to it
 
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