Baki 7-C Scaling

[Amlad22]

I think Yujiro being 7x Oliva is a lot and it's better to just say he's vastly above him.

 

[Antvasima]

A 7.5x gap would indeed logically result in a oneshot, but I am not sure if any of our instruction pages says that a oneshot is automatically counted as 7.5x higher AP.

Can somebody try to verify if the OneShot page or some other source actually officially outlines such a standard convention?

 

[Amlad22]

I mean if it's official that 7x is 100% what a one shot in this case is then Yujiro would be 105 Kilotons or Large Town Level in Base and then 315-420 Kilotons with DB.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In order for Oliva to scale he would need to do something against a semi-serious in my view. Being heavily damaged with one casual nerfed punched then being easily overpowered isn't good scaling evidence in my view.

 

[Amlad22]

Yujiro holds massive respect for Oliva, more so than almost any other character in the series. Odds are he put a decent amount of power into that punch. Oliva scaling to casual Base Yujiro makes the most sense to me based on everything we have.

 

[Amlad22]

Also in the Kaioh Tourney Yujiro makes it pretty clear that Oliva is someone who can harm him. Saying that an attack from Oliva isn't something he'd want to face head on. Yujiro wouldn't say that to someone who isn't at least comparable to his casual power.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Feats seem to go against those statements. Be have another rating to go from? So like "X, likely 7-C" or something?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Is this maybe because Yujiro got stronger? As in Oliva WAS a threat, but not so much when they fought?

 

[Amlad22]

Not really. We don't know how much Yujiro was holding back. So we don't know if he was more casual than the earthquake feat or not. Both were causal punches.

Oliva also casually no sells attacks from Base SOO Baki. Which would put his durability far above 8-B at the very least. If after more input is given and it is decided that Oliva doesn't clearly scale to casual Yujiro then we could figure out a new rating then. I simply believe it's more consistent for 7-C Oliva but that's my input.

 

[Amlad22]

@BakiHanma18

The time gap between the Kaioh Tourney and Yujiro's battle with Oliva is a few months. Not a lot of time passed in which most of it was Yujiro chilling around doing nothing.

 

[BakiHanma18]

@BakiHanma18

The time gap between the Kaioh Tourney and Yujiro's battle with Oliva is a few months. Not a lot of time passed in which most of it was Yujiro chilling around doing nothing.

True, an as Yujiro doesn't have Accelerated Development, he probably hadn't grown that much if at all

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also, I really would like some clarification on the "7x oneshot" rule, because if that's not real, there are several current and recently added threads that would be called into question

 

[KGiffoni]

I also heard the 7x talk in lot of threads. Wanted to know where it comes from, i thought it was official.

 

[Amlad22]

I don't consider it official as of now and it's why I haven't included it. One shots are tough in general. You can have someone who one shots someone and they are only using 10% of their power for example, at that point the gap is much bigger than 7x. It seems inconsistent to me

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm about to make a thread about this "oneshot 7x rule"

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3523676?useskin=oasis

 

[BakiHanma18]

Update: The 7x oneshot rule isn't used for scaling, only for vs threads, so it should be disregarded for this discussion

 

[KGiffoni]

Interesting.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the information. So where does that leave the scaling?

 

[Amlad22]

Everything in my original post remains unchanged. All we are looking at now is more input on Oliva's scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Is there anything I could do to help? Scans, or asking Baki supporters to comment?

 

[KGiffoni]

I don't recall it correctly, wasn't it Baki who said Oliva's strenght was comparable to base Pickle's? With an imaginary illustration of them fighting?

 

[Antvasima]

@Baki

You can ask a few VS Battles Staff members to comment if you wish.

 

[Amlad22]

Baki said that Oliva would be the type of person to face Pickle head on, with no regard for gaps in physical strength. I don't think he says they are equal because right after he says the same thing about Yujiro.

 

[KGiffoni]

I see. I will wait for Baki's opinion

 

[Amlad22]

Went back to check and I was right. Baki was just thinking how interesting it would be to watch Oliva, Hanayama and Yujiro fight Pickle in a head on battle. Not that any of the three are equal to him.

 

[KGiffoni]

I mean, Hanayama is roughly equal to Pickle as of now, no? Did his upgrades get through yet?

 

[Amlad22]

Hanayama doesn't scale directly to Pickle imo he hasn't shown enough feats to be on that level. My idea was to scale Hanayama to 3.75 Kilotons where Base SOO Baki would be.

 

[KGiffoni]

Didn't Hanayama survive slashes from Musashi and slightly hurted Yujiro?

 

[KGiffoni]

The fact Oliva could decently hurt Sukune also supports him at "Above 15 kilotons".

 

[BakiHanma18]

@Baki

You can ask a few VS Battles Staff members to comment if you wish.

Will do

 

[BakiHanma18]

Slightly hurting Yujiro is where Base SOO Baki scale comes from I believe, although, surviving Musashi's blades maybe warrants a higher rating?

 

[Amlad22]

Base SOO Baki is 4x weaker than DB SOO Baki who scales to Oliva who scales to casual Yujiro and the 15 Kilotons feat. Hence a 3.75 Kiloton rating. The Baki that fought Yujiro falls into the "End of SOO/Baki Dou" key.

And yes that's right Oliva was capable of doing decent damage to Nomi who is roughly equal to Base Baki Dou Baki. That's more proof of his 15 Kiloton scaling. The only reason I didn't put him in the same rating is due to the fact that Nomi still bodied him after that.

Surviving Musashi's blades isn't durability if they cut through you it's stamina at that point. Only Yujiro and Pickle have flat out tanked Musashi's blade. Baki might have in the final fight but I am unsure. There defiantly are some good arguments for 15 Kiloton Hanayama tho. Maybe he could be "At Least Low 7-C possibly 7-C"?

 

[Amlad22]

Baki's keys are hella confusing, but basically his SOO key is everything from the end of NGB when he beats Muhammad Ali Jr to the Pickle fight when he masters his imagination style. The End of SOO/Baki Dou key is everything from the Yujiro fight to now.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Base SOO Baki is 4x weaker than DB SOO Baki who scales to Oliva who scales to casual Yujiro and the 15 Kilotons feat. Hence a 3.75 Kiloton rating. The Baki that fought Yujiro falls into the "End of SOO/Baki Dou" key.

And yes that's right Oliva was capable of doing decent damage to Nomi who is roughly equal to Base Baki Dou Baki. That's more proof of his 15 Kiloton scaling. The only reason I didn't put him in the same rating is due to the fact that Nomi still bodied him after that.

Surviving Musashi's blades isn't durability if they cut through you it's stamina at that point. Only Yujiro and Pickle have flat out tanked Musashi's blade. Baki might have in the final fight but I am unsure. There defiantly are some good arguments for 15 Kiloton Hanayama tho. Maybe he could be "At Least Low 7-C possibly 7-C"?

Sounds fair. I'll get in touch with some staff tonight and request someone review this

 

[Ali_jr_bitch!!]

Wouldn't olivas feat of shaking not literally shaking the planet be low7-c anyway? That's what some staff members said on a previous downgrade. There's no reason as to why he shouldn't scale, that same oliva fought demon back Baki full force, and was able to consistently damage him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As said in the previous thread, he didn't shake anything. He just moved over 5 MPH, which caused every satellite in the spy network to adjust which then threw off every GPS connected to the system. He also didn't move any clouds or effect the atmosphere, since that was just a smudge created when the redrawer removed the Japanese kanji and replaced it with English.

Any 15 kt scaling would be based on fighting Ogre or someone Ogre has fought.

 

[Ali_jr_bitch!!]

I don't think anybody redrew it nor would it be a smidge if they did redraw it. Anyway being able to damage Nomi, and having a near equal fight with demon back baki.

 

[Amlad22]

Qawsedf said it perfectly.

Also more reason for Oliva to scale, and proof that Yujiro was decently serious against him was the fact that he threw an actual punch. As we saw against Hanayama, even after he made Yujiro bleed (which really impressed Yujiro), Yujiro simply raised his arm and slapped Hanayama away instantly KO him in one hit. Oliva actually took a full out punch to the face and not only got up but was ready to continue fighting.

It seems clear that Oliva > Baki Dou Hanayama which is more proof of him scaling to 15 Kilotons.

Thought I'd give some more input on Hanayama as well. After looking at all of his SOO and Baki Dou feats I can say he defiantly deserves at least a Low 7-C rating scaling to Base SOO Baki. I forgot the time gap in which Hanayama secretly trained is over a year, which as we know in anime, when a prodigy who has never trained, trains for that much time, the boost in power is extreme. Looking at you Frieza. But in all seriousness, Hanayama does have a consistent set of feats during SOO and Dou which solidify him as a top tier of the verse. I think he defiantly deserves a "At Least Low 7-C possibly 7-C" for being most likely in between the range of 3.75 Kilotons and 15 Kilotons.

In case anyone wants to know a quick list of his feats I put them below

- Takes a punch from Pickle with minimal damage

- Matched and overpowered Pickles charge which easily overpowered and KO'd Retsu

- Is hinted to be on Pickle's level by Baki

- Makes Yujiro bleed

- Survives a serious slap from Yujiro (is still KO'd by it tho)

- Far stronger physically than Musashi and nearly crushes his skull, also stated by Musashi that 4 direct punches from Hanayama would KO him

- Survives many slashes from Musashi's blade

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the practical conclusions here regarding what should be done?