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Baam vs Mukuro

"He fought an oponent that used invisible weapons against him and was still able to tell where the weapons where at, giving this extrasensory perception granted by shinsoo i think he should be able to distingudh them."

This is definnitely not better than HI alone. Any better feats?
 
Yung, i was talking about the time when he was traking the movements of shinsoo in the area to determine the position of the invisible weapons. Shinsoo is basically air, so he was sensing the friction of the weapons in the "air" of the entire room, there were at least ten invisible weapons and he was losing contiousness doe to severe bleeding, and that was almost 200 chapters before the version being used in this match so his ability to sense shinsoo is even better than that.
 
Gabriel 00 said:
XDragonoir, Baam nulled a spell that controlled the mind of another character, i don't see why he couldn't do the same on himself.
I don't see how i would know that "baam can dispel lots of things" means "he has a feat of nulling mind attacks".

Still, his extrasensory perception isn't better than VI's precog, which as i said before, can ne nulled by Torikabuto in his 7A version, his illusions becoming even better in his H7A version, but even then are below Mukuro, who is the top 1 of the world.
 
@Gabriel

I'm a supporter of both series. And in comparing the two, the only thing Baam's enhanced senses have on Tsuna's, is the range.

However, reading the blog, it is easy to see that VI does far more than just sense invisible weapons flying through the air. Seeing through illusions implies the ability to be resistance to foreign perception manipulation. In the same way in which he can see through the battle styles of his opponents, he can see through illusions. Baam does not do such during battle. And instead, normally wins due to superior stats, or superior control with his shinsoo. As was explicitly stated in his battle to obtain an official ranker ranking. He won due to his skill at using shinsoo. Which has little to do with sensing capacity beyond sensing shinsoo and living beings in the area. Whereas Tsuna, not even in dying will mode, can sense whether or not someone is lying. Can tell when someone is possessed. And knows when his guardians are here. And while in dying will mode, he has the aforementioned characteristics enhanced, in addition to peering through illusions, having limited clairvoyance, and being able to see through the weaknesses in the human structure itself to the point where fighting machines was an issue for him. Far better, and far more showings than what Baam has.

Baam's best feat of enhanced senses, outside of sensing people, is sensing invisible threads moving through the air. Note, these threads were not composed of shinsoo. We're actually unaware of whether or not he was sensing things through shinsoo. But even if he was, it's no different from cloud flame radar, which explicitly use vibrations to pick up on illusions. Yet these vibrations they pick up on, are the mist flames themselves, as well as the box weapon producing the mist flames.

Sensing the fluctuations in the mist flames won't help here. As Mukuro's primary use of illusions isn't through manipulating a box weapon that gives off mist flames and can duplicate. Which would give Baam a target to destroy. He targets the mind directly. Which gives Baam no target. Not to mention that it's explicitly stated within the manga that someone knowing they are within an illusion is not enough to get out. As their senses are quite literally being controlled by the illusionist.

I'm also not sure why this is an argument, when Baam was affected by Charlie's perception manipulation, which is less than what Mukuro can do in the first arc of KHR. And Baam's mere existence didn't erase the effects of Charlie's shinsoo, as he was still struck blind for a while. And Mukuro's illusions bypass power nullification regardless. And should be far superior to anything Baam has "resisted", of which the only argument is either Charlie or the internal creatures he possesses in his psyche. Which are far fewer than the hundreds of students that attend Tsuna's middle school.
 
Teon, one ability having more aplications than the other doesn't mean it is better, it is more versatile. And i'm talking about how he managed to track the position of the weapons in the room by sensing their friction with shinsoo, that has little to do with jis intuition. If the illusions are not real they won't interact with the shinsoo on the area, it works differnt from the flame radar because Baam is not emiting shinsoo and is instead using the shinsoo that is already there and Mukuro never stoped someone from using flames so he can't stop Baam from using shinsoo and plus he won't even know what Baam can do so how will he know what to do?

Charlie perception manipulation only worked because Baam wasn't going all out, Charlie himself mentioned that it is useless in a battle against a ranker and Baam used the the black hole sphere to null it in the 3rd season.

lastly, Baam managed to dispel and null attack from people much more powerfull than him, i don't think Mukuro's possible resistance to power null will be of any use especially since in Reborn those kinds of resistances normally come from raw power.

Is there really a point in us debating here? There's only three people in the thread and as much fun as it is i don't feel very motivated to continue.
 
Firstly, the reason why he has "possible" resistance to power nullification is because he hasn't shown it himself. But based on the fact that numerous other characters have shown it, and the way power nullification works in the verse. It's extremely likely he himself has resistance. just not full-on confirmed.

Resistance does come from raw power certainly, but it doesn't make it any less valid. Resisting petrification and disintegration (Both of which are used as power null) also comes from raw power.
 
@Gabriel

If you don't feel motivated to continue, then by all means, feel free to stop. It should be at least somewhat enjoyable to discuss and debate about characters that we enjoy. If you're not enjoying it, or perhaps growing tied, then please, feel free to stop. There's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I'd definitely encourage you to do so.

Also, do you know of any good matches for White? I suddenly have the urge to see him fight some neat characters.

@Yung

Resistance in the tower, aside from Irregulars, does seem to come from raw power quite a bit. But in other verses, it may not work that way. And generally speaking, unless otherwise shown, we accept that hax should work regardless of AP, correct?

That said, the AP difference between Mukuro and Baam isn't even enough for Baam to resist by the standards of his own verse. Where people can be flat out immune to certain hax shinsoo effects because their flow of shinsoo is stronger.

However, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm incorrect, I recall that KHR illusionists almost always have to be dealt with first. Usually by another illusionist. Because their abilities don't care about AP. And in this instance, if Mukuro were to, say, battle against a high ranker, I'm not sure what set of verse rules would take priority. And I'm certain there's been a thread about this before.
 
Ah. I saw it today. The first episode cuts out quite a bit of exposition. But that aside, it's quite good. The animation quality is rather nice, and the OP isn't half bad.
 
Yeah, Lancia for example is probably stronger than Mukuro, but was still a just a subordinate. Tsuna would have lost to Torikabuto if not by Chrome using her Cambio Forma, even if him was MUCH stronger than Torikabuto.
 
This is really bad lmao, I was reading and following this thread from the start and today the anime has come up, thanks for the spoilers lol. I'm going to stop following this thread, btw my vote is to Mukuro FRA
 
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