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Baam vs Mukuro

hmm if he can resistance Mukuro illusions and he has the AP advantage then I think its a stomp lol. though Mukuro is one of my favourite characters.
 
hmm wait does baam have anything protecting him from body stealing? because the speed is eqaulized and if mukuro touched him by his weapon he will take his body.
 
Normal people < normal illusions < people who resist it < DWF illusions. The scaling chain can go higher, but i think this is enough.
 
YukaSama4 said:
hmm wait does baam have anything protecting him from body stealing? because the speed is eqaulized and if mukuro touched him by his weapon he will take his body.
Click to expand...
He can keep Mukuro away with Danmaku and homing attack, he dont have a counter to illusions and real illusions(reality warp) I think, I can be wrong.

Baam resist mind manipulation and soul manipulation, I think that Mukuro use the soul possesion type.
 
Baam used the white heavenly mirror against White, he must still be with him. He could seal his soul. [1]

Furthermore, Baam copied White's abilities that could consume souls, I don't see how he wouldn't do something like that.
 
Mukuro starting with Illusion is the problem, since Baam can't resist them, and after using said illusions he will have all the time of thw world to think a way of killing baam.
 
Forgot to respond, can't Baam resist the ilusions with his resistance to ming manipulation? He resisted the influence of hundreds(maybe thousands) of vengeful souls inside of him, he also has his extrasensorial perception and instinctive reactions. Mukuro truing to posses Baam would probably just end up in him getting absorbed instead, maybe baam could kill him with shinsoo black hole sphere but i'm not certain of that.
 
Mukuro can trap people with resistance to illusions, precog, extrasensorial percep. inside his illusions, and Mukuro's possession isn't soul based, it is mind based (soul possession is for Daemon), what is the range of the Black Hole? Mukuro isn't a H2H fighter, and his illusions have KMs range.
 
Though, since I agree that Baam doesn't resist Mukuro's illusions, there's not much he can do. And Mukuro resists perception/mind manip, so passive shinsoo crush doesn't work either.

Feels like a repeat of Genkishi vs Charlie.
 
I went to read Baam's fight against Kaiser wich i think are his best displays of extrasensorial perception and all of the above, he was able to sense invisible weapons and his instincts were good enough to the point were he could predict their trajectories and continuously dodge them, his instincts were also alerting him of the trap Kaiser prepared but the most intresting part is that he was using the shinsoo in the area to locate the position of every weapon, couldn't he do the same to see through the ilusions? Wasn't tsuna able to get out of the ilusions? And last, i can't remember if Mukuro uses the mist flames to create the ilusions or not can someone clarify that for me?
 
I forgot to mention, Baam has absorbed not only souls but power/energy and even physical objects so if Mukuro tried to posses Baam he could end up being absorbed and even if he was able to posses Baam he might need to deal with the Blue Demon that is inside him. Also i think Baam can dispell the ilusions using shinsoo black-hole sphere as it has power null properties as well.
 
Hibari resisted Mukuro's illusions in kokuyo arc (the first arc with illusions), but couldn't do the same with Genkishi's illusions and needed a DWFs radar to sense what was real and what wasn't (similar to using shinsoo to locate the weapons), Tsuna's Vongola Intuition (which has precog included) is way better than Hibari's radar, but was completely ignored by Torikabuto's illusions, even then, Torikabuto isn't one of the 3 illusionists who can use their illusions against the Vindice, those 3 being Mukuro, Daemon and Fran.

The mist flames are used to create the real illusions (I.E not illusions since they are real).

As i said before, Mukuro doesn't use his soul to posses someone, and he doesn't need that here since he can use the illusion to incap.
 
Can you elaborate a bit more on the radar? I doesn't seem very similar to what baam was using.

If Mukuro decided to use mist flames they might end up being absorbed by Baam

If Baam realize that the ilusions are ilusions they don't work anymore or am i remembering it wrong?
 
"If Baam realize that the ilusions are ilusions they don't work anymore or am i remembering it wrong?"

Yes and no. If you believe they are real, they can physically hurt you. But your mind is still manipulated regardless of if you believe them or not.

And that's in regard to illusions with no mist flames added to them. Which aren't working on any EOS character.
 
Is this the version of Mukuro that has information analysis?

Also, I really cannot seem Baam resisting illusions. He could possibly absorb mist flames if they didn't turn into physical things. But Baam has absorbed things in character all of like, 2-3 times throughout the entire series. It's not exactly a go to move of his.
 
Gabriel 00 said:
Can you elaborate a bit more on the radar? I doesn't seem very similar to what baam was using.
Click to expand...
Hibari's radar works by sending vibrations with his DWFs, which resonate with the normal world and not with the illusions, thus allowing him to know what is real and what isn't.
 
Can't the black hole shinsoo absorb the DWF that are used to create illusions?not real one, just the fake ones
 
Illusions aren't made with DWF, they are mind attacks only, even if they can do damage, they aren't real, but it could actually be used to counter the Real Illusions.
 
Shinsoo black hole can dispel lots of things so i believe he could dispel the regular illusions.

The radar seem to work a bit diferent from what baam was using, Baam was traking the movements of shinsoo wich is basically the air, Mukuro can stop Baam from using his power and neither can he remove the shinsoo from his surroundings. It might take some time but Baam would probably figure out his trick.
 
Without feat, he is not dispeling a mind attack (i.e an attack that isn't happening at all and thus can't be interacted).

Even if the Cloud Radar is weaker (which i agree it can be), Baam's radar isn't as good as Tsuna's VI, which was bypassed by a 7A illusionist casually, while Mukuro is a L6B and the top 1 of the world.
 
Yeah. The illusions are taking place in the mind. It's not something external to be interacted with physically.

Also, while the black hole sphere does disperse a lot of things, it doesn't do that merely by existing. It normally has to contact something. Hence why the black hole sphere doesn't just disperse of shinsoo beasts and the like simply by being in their presence. And it has a capacity on what it can take, as Data Zahard destroyed Baam's black hole sphere before with reguar shinsoo beams.
 
Baam used the Black Hole sphere to purge poison from his body and he can also dispel not physical things like spells so i don't really see a reason why he coudn't dispel the illusions, and the black hole sphere was shown to work on things much more powerful than Baam when he managed to fight back hell joe and slowlly nullify Karaka's shinsoo.

I don't think tier correlates to things like extrasensory perception, and what kind of feat does Tsuna have with VI?
 
Spells =/= illusions through. And the illusions have resistance to power nullification, so even if he could nullify them, the illusions resist such. Everything else you've listed as things that physically/energetically exist outside his body. Minus the poison, which exists inside but is still a physical thing.

I'll find the blog that has some of the feats of Vongola Intuition.
 
Illusions are a supernatural power the same way spells are, and Baam is able to nullify spells casted by people much stronger than himself so i don't think that some possible resistance to power null is stronger than Baam's power null. I'm not saying that the illusions will not work but eventually Baam will figure it out. And even tho Mukuro is able to put Baam into an illusion it's not like he will oneshot Baam.
 
That's a bit of an NLF. We cannot claim that Baam has feats of his powernull overpowering something that has resisted powernull without it being shown in verse. And thus far, it hasn't. None of the spells were resistant to power nullification. And, once again, spells cannot be equated to illusions here. Honestly, the power systems are two dissimilar to be equalized here, as shinsoo is literally everywhere. Whereas dying flames are one's life force as a highly condensed energy that has clear ties to one's spirit and the afterlife to some extent. Totally different systems.

Not to mention that the power null used in KHR is meant specifically to nullify the effects of dying will flames. In particular of illusionists since illusions can basically defeat anyone that doesn't resist or have the means to power null their illusions. Mukuro can make Baam eat an entire building and blow up from the attempt (as he did on only his second appearance). Illusions take over one's senses in their entirety such that they don't have control over them any more. Baam will no longer have control over his five senses, so there's not anything to "figure out" (And even if, say he could, that doesn't allow him to escape the illusion). And he likely won't be able to do much with his supernatural senses either, since it can fool Vongola Intuition. (My apologies for not linking that blog. I'll go find it for you).

I'll also try to find a blog that talks about the illusions.
 
Gabriel 00 said:
Illusions are a supernatural power the same way spells are, and Baam is able to nullify spells casted by people much stronger than himself so i don't think that some possible resistance to power null is stronger than Baam's power null. I'm not saying that the illusions will not work but eventually Baam will figure it out. And even tho Mukuro is able to put Baam into an illusion it's not like he will oneshot Baam.
Click to expand...
Illusions are supernatural, but they are not the same as a random spell, illusions are mind attacks that control the target's five senses and thus, you need feats of nulling them, nulling "spells" doesn't mean you can null every type of magic.
 
XDragonoir, Baam nulled a spell that controlled the mind of another character, i don't see why he couldn't do the same on himself.
 
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