Auswahlen and Light of Lille

[M11UTD]

OP made the thread based on multiple reasons not just "oh it's light", and your reason to disagree isn't even similar to Matt and Tata's argument

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Angry and Shadow

I agree. But yeah others are trying to close the thread which would shut down the argument when it's midway. If it has to continue it must continue then and not be discarded. So uh, yeah I agree with you two.


Just realized... By the logic of the rain issue, wouldn't that count for the potential reason that the light was 'scattering' when it's up close?

@1997

It's not just that. The main issue is whether or not those few pics count enough as an invalidation when there's already a lot of other stuff on.

 

[Sera_EX]

while Sera's Intentions are noble they are counterproductive to the arguments being made, they fall under the "Argument to moderation" fallacy which asserts that the Truth can only be found in compromise, this isn't applicable to our own standards of Light, meaning that Auswahlen meets the criteria for Lightspeed or it does not. there is no grey area unless we artificially change context to suit a specific situation.

I didn't say jump the gun per se, I said compromise. I don't care what the arguments are, be they major or minor, my point as moderator is to compromise rather than mudsling, I just used a possible "At least X, possibly Y" rating as an example.

I'm tired of Bleach threads always coming down to "Bleach fans vs. Matthew". It's freaking getting old.

 

[Andytrenom]

Who you calling Angry, Have I not made a sufficient attempt to show my calm and complacent side here?

 

[Sera_EX]

The Angry Trenom Nerd.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Autocorrect ;; I'm sorry!!

Edit - Then again Angrytrenom is a cool name.

 

[Andytrenom]

It's not. Shut up.

 

[MostPowerfull]

I think Tata and Matt were more convincing and had better points.

The light is clearly deformed, bending and it is not mentioned in any source that the light is real or not, and the refraction is strange and made by something with magical reflection property.

I strongly agree with Tata.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I've always agreed with the auswahlen and lile's light being light speed

Even if we say the auswahlen isnt real light there are calcs out there thatvsbow it would have had to move at at least the speed of light to reach certain points in the time periods it did

 

[TataHakai]

Auswahlen would've need to move from SKP to SS within literally microseconds to be Light speed via calcs, and there's no way to get to those timeframes without calc stacking

at most it'd be sub rel - sub rel+ so no calc is helping validate the SOL rating

 

[Antvasima]

Shadowbokunohero and Andytrenom make good points.

For the record, I also agree with TataHakai.

I would appreciate if somebody could ask Ryukama and Spino to evaluate this again, as there are new arguments now that may convince them to change their minds.

 

[HST_Master]

I just want to point out that it was raining when the Auswahlen light was coming down and going back up, so if it is real light how come it didn't reflect off the rain. If the Auswahlen is supposed to be 100% real light then there is no way they could have come down as huge beams without some of that light reflecting off the rain. This isn't something that can be hand waved either because light reflecting off mediums like water is one of the main properties of light. So for Auswahlen to be real light someone would have to explain why is doesn't behave like real light would when exposed to rain.

The rain isn't even detailed enough to know that or not.

 

[Sekusu]

Forgive me,but "it needs to get to ss within microseconds to be light speed" r u talking seruisly?lol

 

[TataHakai]

Our accepted distance for SS to SKP is 88,000 or so Kilometers

Auswahlen would have to get to SS within around give or take 0.3 seconds to be Light speed, again, there's no possible way to get to this figure without calc stacking

I meant Deciseconds then, not Micro.

 

[USklaverei]

It does not need stacking to get a much bigger result than the current one, since the accepted one is a tremendous low ball.

 

[Kyo_Takashi]

Sooo... just for the sake of keeping the debate ongoing and on it's tracks, it has been argued that this light here is just a reflection of an attack (way back on the discussion). Something that doesn't make any sense, since:

1 - Lille was just emitting light, not using it for attacking purposes. Literally, Nanao said this and if you are willing to do it, you can go back a chapter and see that Lille wasn't attacking and the whole context(It's chapter 651)

2 - Later, when he DOES attack, the attack is deflected back at him and he is basically cut in half

So it's not an attack being reflected, it is indeed just light

The thread is divided into Aushwalen and Lille, people are talking about closing the thread and never again to be brought back even though half of it is being majorly ignored

Also - the Sekkiseki mineral, that is basically what produces the Shakonmaku, repel any Reiryoku and the barrier itself too has the property of vaporazing any Reishi, unless it is really dense, so it would happen that thing with the Kukaku Cannon. So, to phase trough, it can't be made of nor Reiryoku, nor Reishi. The thing is, basically any technique in Bleach is made of those two, and if it isn't, then it's made of Reiatsu, and the Sekkiseki indeed affects Reiatsu (We can see that when Rukia was being captive, as she couldn't properly sense the Reiatsu of those outside of the walls of her prison - i have a scan for that, but the quality is awful)

So, the Shakonmaku blocks the 3 things that composes ALL types of attacks and techniques in the verse, and the only other 2 things that phases trough it are rain and light. So the options of the nature of Auswahlen itself are limited to those 2 things, and it's not difficult to see wich one it actually is. The discussion about Kubo's drawing style and how he can't properly draw a straight line is not important to say the truth, since the argument is that the Auswahlen is curved in milimiters on 1 or 2 panels (Kubo has a lot of issues when it comes to showing off the laws of physics trough Bleach. The spikes of As Nodt are supossed to emmit light but they have shadows - the Senbonzakura should be invisible when there is no light, yet it is bright as if it emmited light itself). Besides that, there is no proof that the rays of Auswahlen do not move at the same speed besides 1 panel where the perspective causes a distortion (not only that, the sternritters aren't in the same position, so some of the rays should travel farther than others)

 

[USklaverei]

This is going to be rejected simply because the Kubo represents the light that way, this is literally in all frames that appear lights.

On here

There

Over there

Here

Agai

Also here

Agai

Once agai

Literally

 

[1997KD]

^Actually, it didn't prove anything. You should post where light actually used in combat and act as light

 

[The_mysterious_man]

Sunlight isn't light

 

[USklaverei]

^Actually, it didn't prove anything. You should post where light actually used in combat and act as light

You did not understand my point.

What I mean is that Kubo draws light in this way, which is artistic freedom, because if you take that into account, neither the sunlight and the light of the lamps will be accepted as real light.

 

[Omimi]

now blaming Kubo art to get this accepted

this getting old

 

[M11UTD]

he posted tons of examples to support his point, and that's literally the only argument you guys have.

 

[Kyo_Takashi]

now blaming Kubo art to get this accepted
this getting old

Nobody is blaming nothing on Kubo. He just showed examples of how he draws it. Why should It isn't drawn like light be accepted but Kubo draws light exactly like that not?

 

[Naeblis495]

as long as kubo choose to depict light that way and remain consistent , as USklaverei prooved , it come down to artistic freedom.


it has all the proprieties of light , it just doesn't look like it .

 

[USklaverei]

I could take even more examples, because it's literally every time it's so, but I think that's enough.

 

[1997KD]

as long as kubo choose to depict light that way and remain consistent , as USklaverei prooved , it comes down to artistic freedom

That pretty much ends the argument, we should accept everything what author says cause author have freedom to do it.

Unfollowing

 

[Sera_EX]

Our standards for real light are not that strict.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Not every artist or author has to mimic a scientific element to a perfect T...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

now blaming Kubo art to get this accepted
this getting old

Called it a long time ago.

Literal art stops being literal when it doesn't sell the argument.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol, can you not?

 

[M11UTD]

getting old doesn't mean it's not true, especially when someone posts multiple scans and examples to prove it.

 

[Sera_EX]

This has gotten ridiculous

 

[M11UTD]

indeed when someone posts multiple examples for different cases and the counter been "it doesn't look fully straight" to everything and keep repeating it the whole time in a 300+ thread.

> posting memes

> trying to make new rule on spot

> trying to close the thread.

and when the OP posts scans to support his point about the drawing, the counter is "this getting old". this indeed gotten ridiculous.

 

[Omimi]

Our standards for real light are not that strict.

it is otherwise this and other light based power would've accepted long ago

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Omimi

What examples are exactly that would be accepted? Can you provide some? If so then I feel like they should be brought up and reviewed in that case.

 

[Kyo_Takashi]

The discussion is going to move to Lille or what? The biggest counter to him producing real light is saying that it is a magical attack, when it is not

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The main point to counter to Lille's light is that Nanao's Shinken is meant to reflect attacks even though it blinds him by reflecting the ambient light he gives off. When she actually reflects his attack, it bisects him.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It might be relevant to the intensity of the light attack? If it's ambient light like say a flashlight the worst a reflected light can do is obstruct your view.

But if it's like a laser that cuts stuff up well, it's more harmful. Or do you mean it in some other way?

Edit - From what I'm getting

Not attacking, only ambient light - Lille is blinded

Attacks - Attack is reflected and Lille gets halved

 

[Sera_EX]

@M11UTD

I agree. No discussion rule is being made because I am certain this is the first time this particular revision topic has ever been brought up.

 

[The_Causality]

Our standards for real light are not that strict.

True.