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Auswahlen and Light of Lille

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All matter is made up of reishi in SS, light is not matter and the Auswhalen which is stated to be light does not get impeded or affected by the Cage of Life which specifaically targets and absorbs reishi/reiryoku even growing out specifically to catch the reiryoku/reishi.
 
For liles light

1) being described as light of god is no proof of lightspeed moveemnt and it soubds more like arrogant boasting about his own power

2) The ball would stil cast shadows onto other object, so It being light is just iffy

The rest of his attack are just used for destruction
 
It doesn't "seem" deformed, It IS deformed, in fact it's shown more to be deformed than it is to be straight, we even see the "light" curve around Yhwach's hand, i'll show many examples of it warping and curving and distorting, not to mention proof that the beams don't move at the constant speed of C, there's MORE scenes of it curving and distorting and not acting like Light than there are.

It only deformed after it had reached its destination and was in contact with Bazz-B, is irrelevant.

In the scene that shows her above the Accutrone shows really curved, however, that is the view from below, which gives a very different perspective.

Warping at the edges does not change, since he is still in rectilinear motion, out of which Yhwach did not release all at once, this became clear, since the first struck Accutrone and then came to try to hit Liltotto.

Actually no, it decomposes Reishi, spiritual matter, all this means is that Auswahlen isn't made of Reishi which doesn't help your point at all, just because it isn't made of reishi doesn't mean it's made of light considering there are tons of other things in Bleach that it could be made of, and considering all attacks aren't made of reishi but rather the usage of a persons inner Reiryoku (Spiritual energy, not matter) it'd just be that Auswahlen is pure Reiryoku, not reishi, thus allowing it to travel through the barrier.

It not only decomposes Reishi, but completely blocks spiritual energy, this is written in the discourse. The only thing that does not offer resistance is light.

This from Yhwach's hand is ridiculous, he is manipulating the light there, it was not in motion.
 
"Of course it isn't conclusive proof which is why you connect the dots. A beam of light that phases through a barrier that block matter unless it's really dense. This and sunlight are the only things that pass the barrier easily completely unhindered."

"It's not this so it must be this", is a fallacious way of arguments, there are tons of other options which it can be considered to be, again, nothing at all indicates that it is photons or light, it's a false dichotomy fallacy because it entirely ignores the possibility of other options and asserts two, meaning if we don't accept one the other HAS to be true, which is wrong.
 
Sekusu said:
TataHakai said:
It not being made of reishi isn't conclusive proof that it 100% has to be Light or Photons was my point, it could be made of anything and we'd have no way to prove it because there's absolutely no statement in the series that says it's made of photons or light. Essentially saying it IS made of Photons/Light holds as much weight as saying it doesn't, thus the argument comes to a standstill and the point becomes moot.
Click to expand...
but it's light..it's about whether it's natural light or not
Click to expand...
Yes it's Light that doesn't behave like Light. Thus applying one of the properties of Light (the speed) when it contradicts the other properties is exactly why we have rules in place to not accept these kind of things.
 
Everything it could be would be blocked. There is only one thing that totally phases trough the barrier, wich is sunlight
 
It's called Light, and that is a property of light. We've seen one other thing phase through the barrier in verse which is sunlight or else the Seireitei would be in complete darkness. there is nothing wrong with that assessment since there is nothing else in verse that has passed through unhindered. You can't bring an example because it doesn't exist in verse, you're just saying "could be something else" but its pretty much based off nothing.
 
Even lights that came out of a lamp behave in this way according to the art of Kubo.
 
"It only deformed after it had reached its destination and was in contact with Bazz-B, is irrelevant."

Not true, i showed it deforming whilst in motion too, multiple times, more times than you or any bleach chapter has showed it to move straight without jagged edges or completely warping.

'"In the scene that shows her above the Accutrone shows really curved, however, that is the view from below, which gives a very different perspective.'"

I....i don't think you understand what perspective means, light doesn't become warped just because you're looking at it from a different angle, if i point a laser at you from above or below or from the right or left it still would look straight for you, not curved simply because you're changing positions relative to the laser.

"Warping at the edges does not change, since he is still in rectilinear motion, out of which Yhwach did not release all at once, this became clear, since the first struck Accutrone and then came to try to hit Liltotto."

I don't really understand this but i'm assuming you mean that it doesn't matter, which it does, if a single line of light has jagged edges that suggests that it's not a single beam of photon waves, because otherwise it wouldn't become deformed like that, unless something was manipulating the shape of the light beams.

"This from Yhwach's hand is ridiculous, he is manipulating the light there, it was not in motion."

He isn't JUST manipulating the Light there, he's manipulating it the entire time, he decides where it goes and at what speed, it doesn't move at a constant speed of C it moves at whatever speed Yhwach is moving the beams.

At this point you're simply reiterating the previous points you made.
 
I mean it's a double edged sword meme

so i think it should be fine

although Intial D memes would have been superior
 
Not true, i showed it deforming whilst in motion too, multiple times, more times than you or any bleach chapter has showed it to move straight without jagged edges or completely warping.

Yes, but in this scan that shows the light coming from above , it seems that it is only ONE light and not several, but in the next scan it shows that they are several beams and not ONE .
Here it becomes even clearer that this came separately, if we were to use that Accutrone scan, all of them would be a single beam of light.

I don't really understand this but i'm assuming you mean that it doesn't matter, which it does, if a single line of light has jagged edges that suggests that it's not a single beam of photon waves, because otherwise it wouldn't become deformed like that, unless something was manipulating the shape of the light beams.

But that does not really matter, the beam of light is rectilinear in the scene, the edge is the least.

So you wanted that to be rectilinear in his hand, too, is it?

Other than that, the question is still in the air, as has been said several times, the only thing that went through the Shokonmanku was sunlight, otherwise everything was blocked, if it is not light, is what? You said it could be several things, quote them.
 
@TataHakai

I'm confused as to how this jagged edge disproves it being natural light, nothing in the light speed page talks about how the author draws it. The beam itself moves at one speed and travels in a straight line.

There is one beam for each person, so how does the bottom portion of it disqualify it when its just a single beam going up and down as shown in the manga. So clearly each indivual beam is moving at the same speed.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
@TataHakai
I'm confused as to how this jagged edge disproves it being natural light, nothing in the light speed page talks about how the author draws it. The beam itself moves at one speed and travels in a straight line.

There is one beam for each person, so how does the bottom portion of it disqualify it when its just a single beam going up and down as shown in the manga. So clearly each indivual beam is moving at the same speed.
Click to expand...
Because Light doesn't deform like that, it's essentially the same thing as our light bending rules, natural light doesn't form jagged edges where some waves of light have less area than others.

Because that's clearly not what's shown, what is shown is that the beams aren't at the same distance from Yhwach a.k.a some are further away than others despite being sent and recalled at the same time, meaning there is no constant speed there which you'd need to prove with light speed abilities.
 
I agree with OP, he made solid points and so far the argument against it is just cherrypicking from random panels, I"m reading some new type of arguments like "why there's edge" "why this beam is ahead of this one" lol
 
Because Light doesn't deform like that, it's essentially the same thing as our light bending rules, natural light doesn't form jagged edges where some waves of light have less area than others.

This is clearly just the way he drew it, literally only the tip of it looks like that.

Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:

  • It is shown at different speeds in the same material
This is impossible to tell, since it's 2-D manga panel. What we see is different individual beams hitting different people. The beams are never shown to be fired so how did u come to the conclusion that they were fired at the same time and then traveled at a different speed.

  • It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans
It is intangible and can't be physically interacted with.

  • They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above)
They travel in a straight line back and forth, and after some googling I see gravity can bend light in some ways althought that was 50/50. The Soul King dimension as stated by Ichibe has a higher level of gravity.
 
So the most commonly used argument so far is:

> The light showed to be curved and so is not real light.

Yes, she did double-fold in several scenes, but in the scene that becomes more evident, it is totally contradictory to others, since in this scene it seems that it is only a ray of light and not several, being that soon shows 2 coming toward Liltotto and Gissele.

Aus
You see, there is not something separating, it seems like all this is just a beam of light.

Aus1
Here the beams show totally different from the scene in which it shows the lights above Accutrone.


In these scenes, the curvature of the light is shown, but it's like I said, it's an angle that does not help much, but then someone is shown seeing "away" and of course they went straight, which is evident in the two scans where shows the percussion of the lights.

Auswahlen 1
All lights are straight


So the question is ...

Did the light come down straight or came down crooked and straightened up after reaching its destination?


We still have the argument of:

> Speed is not constant, some are faster.

However, it is clear that this was not released at the same time for all. In the scene of Accutrone, the light arrives at him and soon tries to arrive at Lilltotto, which shows that there was a brief interval between the lights. In the scene that shows the Auswahlen going up, it's the same thing, the ones that were sent first, they came back first, of course.


We also have the argument that basically makes it explicit that this is light.

As already mentioned, the Shokonmanku blocks any spiritual energy that comes in contact, ie Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure), Reiryoku (Spiritual Force) and Reishi (Spiritual Particles) is totally blocked if it comes in contact with the Shokonmanku.

Shokonmanku


However, the only thing that has been shown not to be blocked is light, since sunlight illuminates Seireitei freely.
Auswahlen was able to pass through the Shokonmanku without interference, which is already something that shows that it is not one of the things mentioned, that is, it has no mass.
This is the strongest evidence that this is a real light, no matter how many sweeps show the curvature of light.
 
An error on one particular panel is not judgement for the invalidation of everything else. I mean it's not like artists and authors have to exactly perfectly mimic some Science to a T. They can slip up sometimes. This seems quite consistent and there are more major feats of it being likely to happen so I'm gonna have to join the Agree side. Also mini bump in a way.
 
It's not a minor error on one particular panel, my dude. Multiple panels on multiple chapters. The errors stack, and the evidence weights against the supporting side.

Need I explain that a visual media will often display visuals literally?
 
I removed the inflammatory posts. As others have mentioned, this conflict should not deteriorate any more than it already has.
 
Matt I really respect your debating but I really have to disagree here. Tata brings up some very solid points but USK is faring well against them too.

Also going "Holy shit lads look at this straight line" sliiightly hurts your case. Entertaining like the memes, but doesn't paint a bright light.


Huh. Lighttalk.
 
Let's go with the disagreeing team!

Go! Go!

(Im unfollowing lol)
 
There was some off-wiki controversy. He seems to have decided to take a break after that.
 
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