God Tier Upgrade: Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

[BluudyManikin777]

Attack Potency

Via this scaling chain, certain characters will be upgraded in this regard

Most of these profiles have justifications which are really long, and unnecessary

Certain characters’ AP justifications will be changed accordingly

Boota (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Universe level (Should be as powerful as before) * Since the likely higher thing has been debunked, Boota is put at the same level as his previous key

Simon the Digger (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): High Complex Multiverse level (Integrated the Multiverse; an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse), higher in Tengen Toppa Lagann (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in power to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a mecha which was created by Simon after integrating the Multiverse, along with being implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing within it. Created a drill, which could match Granzeboma’s drill)

Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): High Complex Multiverse level (Simon was stated to be Gurren Lagann himself, the latter being an integration of all possible versions of itself in the Multiverse. Should be equal to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a Gunmen which was also created by Simon himself, implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing from within itself)

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: High Complex Multiverse level (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the embodiment of all possible Gurren Lagann in the Multiverse, and is the ultimate evolution of that Gunmen. Is implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing from within itself. Was created by Simon, after integrating the 11 dimensionalinfinite multiverse with himself. Is a manifestation of Simon’s emotions, which were previously mentioned to transcend time and space)

Nia Teppelin (Tengen Toppa Solvernia): High Complex Multiverse level (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in power to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a mecha which was created by Simon after integrating the Multiverse (an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse), along with being implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing within it. Damaged Granzeboma with her drill spear)

Viral (Tengen Toppa Enki Durga): High Complex Multiverse level (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in power to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a mecha which was created by Simon after integrating the Multiverse (an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse), along with being implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing within it. Kept up with Granzeboma in a sword fight, and even managed to damage it)

Yoko Littner (Tengen Toppa Yoko-W-Tank/Yoko SP): High Complex Multiverse level (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in power to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a mecha which was created by Simon after integrating the Multiverse (an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse), along with being implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing within it. Knocked back Granzeboma with her rifle

Lordgenome (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): High Complex Multiverse level (Stated to have the same power as Simon, after the formation of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; a mecha which was created by Simon after integrating the Multiverse (an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse), along with being implied to have infinite Spiral Power flowing within it. Could handle the force of the Infinity Big Bang Storm, for a while, before suffering a quantum breakdown), higher after Infinity Big Bang Storm Conversion (Lordgenome, after being broken down to the quantum level by the IBBS, has increased in power after taking in such energy)

Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: High Complex Multiverse level (After Lordgenome gave up his life to Simon, the latter distributed the Spiral Power to every one else in Team Dai-Gurren, causing all of them to be equal. After the power distribution, not only do all the Tengen Toppa Gunmen combine into STTGL, but the power of every member left in Team Dai-Gurren, combined to power it)

Gurren Lagann (Post-Apotheosis): High Complex Multiverse level (Destroyed Super Granzeboma, after a Giga Drill clash. After Gurren Lagann emerged from Arc-Gurren Lagann, to clash drills, The Anti-Spiral was shocked, and stated that nobody should be able to withstand his power, meaning he was using his full power)

Viral (Post-Apotheosis): High Complex Multiverse level (As one of the pilots of Gurren Lagann, he has been exposed to such levels of Spiral Power, thus inherited this power)

Boota (Post-Apothoesis): High Complex Multiverse level (As one of the pilots of Gurren Lagann, he has been exposed to such levels of Spiral Power, thus inheriting this power)

Nia Teppelin (Post-Apotheosis): High Complex Multiverse level (As one of the pilots of Gurren Lagann, she has been exposed to such levels of Spiral Power, thus inheriting this power)

The Anti-Spiral: High Complex Multiverse level (Could fight on par with Simon, who was implied to be capable of withstanding his full power. Can easily manipulate the Multiverse (an 11 dimensional infinite multiverse) to expose infinite possibilities to his foes, trapping them in the Multiverse Labyrinth, after their recognition of alternate realities. His sheer existence maintains the Anti-Spiral’s universe; a universe stated to oscillate between the 10 and 11 dimensional membranes. As well as having a different set of dimensional axes, which correspond to a 10 + 1 dimensional reality)

Simon the Digger (Post-Apotheosis): High Complex Multiverse level (Surprised the Anti-Spiral by matching his full power. Fought equally with, and eventually killed The Anti-Spiral on foot. Has become significantly more powerful, after he left the universe in Simon’s hands)

Speed

Since Spiral Power, the power of evolution, is the very energy which determines the power of a user, it would be logical to say that greater Spiral Power proportions equal greater speed as well. As the power of evolution itself, a user will become better than its previous self in every way it can. This is evident within episode 3, where Kamina with Gurren alone could not keep up with Enki in a fight, and couldn’t land a single blow. But combining with Lagann, which Kamina explains as “two fighting spirits slamming into one another”, which is basically Spiral Power of two beings flowing in together, he was capable of fighting Enki, becoming equals.

On to the proposals

Boota (Pigmole Form): Massively FTL+ (As one half of which powers Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, he should be this fast)

Boota (Evolution Form): Massively FTL+ (Should be far superior to his Pigmole self, after absorbing much of Lordgenome’s Spiral Power)

Boota (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Massively FTL+ (Should be comparable in speed to his previous self)

Simon the Digger (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Subsonic, with Transonic Combat Speed/Reactions; At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite in Tengen Toppa Lagann (As a part of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, it should be comparable in speed)

Simon hasn’t mastered Spiral Power yet. On his own, he can’t manipulate Spiral Power to reach MFTL+ speeds

Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Far superior to Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann which can move this fast. Is fueled with Simon’s Spiral Power, which he has infinite amounts of. Spiral Power as the very energy which determines the power of the user, is also which determines speed. )

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Created and powered by Simon, who has infinite amounts of Spiral Power. Should be comparable in speed to Gurren Lagann after Simon integrated the Multiverse)

Tengen Toppa Solvernia, Enki Durga and Yoko-W-Tank/Yoko SP: At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (As a part of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, it should be comparable in speed. After TTGL’s creation, all pilots were given the same power as Simon)

Lordgenome (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Was given the same power as Simon, after Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann’s creation. Lazengann should be comparable in speed, as it was a part of TTGL), higher after Infinity Big Bang Storm Conversion (Far superior to his previous self, after taking in the energy of the Infinity Big Bang Storm)

Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (A combination of all Tengen Toppa Gunmen, all of which are comparable to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and is superior to all of them via Lordgenome’s sacrifice)

Gurren Lagann (Post-Apotheosis): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Far superior to Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Super Granzeboma)

Viral (Post-Apotheosis): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (As a being who is now capable of using Spiral Power, he has inherited the energy that flows within Gurren Lagann)

Nia Teppelin & Boota (Post-Apotheosis): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (As one of the pilots of Gurren Lagann, he/she should be comparable)

The Anti-Spiral: At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Comparable in speed to Simon, who was equal to Gurren Lagann at the time, who is far superior to even Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and Super Granzeboma. Could keep up with him in a fist fight)

Simon the Digger (Post-Apotheosis): At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Kept pace with and eventually defeated The Anti-Spiral in hand-to-hand combat)

Lifting Strength

Boota (Pigmole Form): Class Z (As one half of what powers Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, he should be this powerful)

Boota (Evolution Form): At least Class Z (Far superior in strength to his previous self, after absorbing much of Lordgenome's Spiral Power)

Boota (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): At least Class Z (Should be as powerful as his previous self)

Since Simon has integrated the Multiverse itself as a part of him, everyone that upscales Simon should be given Immeasurable Lifting Strength

Simon the Digger (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Immeasurable (Should be this powerful, as the Multiverse itself is integrated as a part of his existence), higher in Tengen Toppa Lagann (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in strength to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Immeasurable (As a Gunmen powered by Post-Multiverse Labyrinth Simon, who he himself hasn't mastered Spiral Power yet, it should be infinitely superior)

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: Immeasurable (Should be comparable to Gurren Lagann, as it is also a Gunmen who is powered by Post-Multiverse Labyrinth Simon)

Tengen Toppa Solvernia, Enki Durga & Yoko-W-Tank/Yoko SP: Immeasurable (As a Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be comparable in strength to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

Lordgenome (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Immeasurable (Was stated to be given the same power as Simon, therefore, comparable in strength to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann), higher after Infinity Big Bang Storm Conversion (Should be greater in strength than before)

Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: Immeasurable (As a combination of all 11 Tengen Toppa Gunmen, it should be superior to them in strength)

Gurren Lagann (Post-Apotheosis): Immeasurable (Far superior in strength to even Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, as it is fueled with far more Spiral Power)

Viral (Post-Apotheosis), Boota (Post-Apotheosis) and Nia Teppelin (Post-Apotheosis): Immeasurable (As a pilot of Gurren Lagann, should be far superior in strength to even Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

The Anti-Spiral: Immeasurable (Should be equal in strength to Simon, who is superior to even Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Is capable of easily manipulating the Multiverse to expose consciousnesses to infinite possibilities, trapping them in the Multiverse Labyrinth)

Simon the Digger (Post-Apotheosis): Immeasurable (Is now superior to the Anti-Spiral, who before was equal to him. Far superior to his previous self after gaining numerous increases in power, and mastering the use of Spiral Power on his own)

Powers and Abilities

Boota should also be given Non-Physical Interaction, as he could disrupt the Anti-Spiral’s humanoid form

Simon (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth & Post-Apotheosis), Lordgenome (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth), Boota (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth & Post-Apotheosis), Nia Teppelin (Post-Apotheosis) and Viral (Post-Apotheosis) should be given Higher-Dimensional Existence via Simon who integrated the Multiverse, which is 11-D, to his own existence. And being capable of freely moving within the Anti-Spiral's universe, which corresponds to a 10 + 1 dimensional reality

Everyone with Abstract Existence (Type 1) and Incorporeality should be given all Self-Sustenance types, as their true selves do not require things biological humans do

 

[RisingIons]

Good luck

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

God Tiers (High 1-Cs): Infinite

Where are the justifications for this?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Where are the justifications for this?

I was lazy, I’ll get to it rn lol

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Done

 

[Qawsedf234]

Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Infinite (Is fueled with Simon’s Spiral Power, which he has infinite amounts of. Spiral Power as the very energy which determines the power of the user, is also which determines speed)

This isn't a infinite speed justification without a hard statement. They get stronger with more spiral power, that doesn't mean they have infinite speed rather than being more MFTL+.

As for your blog everything past 960x has shaky justification that I honestly do not see.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

This isn't a infinite speed justification without a hard statement. They get stronger with more spiral power, that doesn't mean they have infinite speed rather than being more MFTL+

Even if there are showings of greater Spiral Power equating to greater speed?

As for your blog everything past 960x has shaky justification that I honestly do not see.

I’ve begun to see it too, but Simon getting a boost in power should still be there, because it’s implied that Anti-Spiral had put his faith in him. Simon clearly told him he should believe in them

 

[Qawsedf234]

Even if there are showings of greater Spiral Power equating to greater speed?

You need a statement or feat for infinite/Immeasurable speed. Upscaling is just a greater degree of MFTL+.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

You need a statement or feat for infinite/Immeasurable speed. Upscaling is just a greater degree of MFTL+.

I’m not using up scaling for Infinite Speed, I used a feat that shows that greater levels of Spiral Power equate to greater levels of speed here. Kamina wasn’t capable of landing a single punch on Viral’s Gunmen, Enki, by himself. But after combining with Simon’s Lagann, he was capable of keeping up and matching Enki’s power. Kamina explained combining as two souls slamming into one another, which is implying Spiral Power. If speed isn’t accepted as proportionate to Spiral Power levels, then that’s just downplay at this point, because it was literally been shown that greater Spiral Power equals greater speeds. Simon after integrating the Multiverse has infinite Spiral Power, therefore infinite speed

 

[Qawsedf234]

I’m not using up scaling for Infinite Speed

You are, because you're attempting to say that since they have higher dimensional AP they should have infinite speed, which isn't a factor in getting infinite speed. They're just vaguely higher levels of MFTL+

 

[BluudyManikin777]

You are, because you're attempting to say that since they have higher dimensional AP they should have infinite speed, which isn't a factor in getting infinite speed. They're just vaguely higher levels of MFTL+

I’m not saying they should have infinite speed because they have higher dimensional AP. The speed is proportionate to Spiral Power. Having infinite Spiral Power can mean you’re High 3-A, and these characters are High 1-C, not because of Spiral Power. Infinite Spiral Power normally is High 3-A, but these characters have special circumstances that make High 3-A not the case. You’re saying that everyone with Spiral Power is automatically High 1-C? That’s what it sounds like

 

[Qawsedf234]

You’re saying that everyone with Spiral Power is automatically High 1-C?

I don't know how you got that from this

since they have higher dimensional AP they should have infinite speed, which isn't a factor in getting infinite speed

Having Tier 1 energy reserves and getting faster by being stronger doesn't mean that they're infinite.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Having Tier 1 energy reserves and getting faster by being stronger doesn't mean that they're infinite.

Again, that’s not what I’m saying. Spiral Power can be 3D energy, and still be infinite in amounts for all I care. I’m saying the energy amounts is proportionate to speed. Did you watch TTGL? Every single human being has Spiral Power. It’s not an Extradimensional power source

 

[Qawsedf234]

not an Extradimensional power source

Well it is by the nature of it being Tier 1. But your misunderstanding my point. What you've given isn't evidence for Infinite speed. The fact they can grow stronger outright shows that they have an ever increasing upper limit, so their speed will always been defined by a real number. They Cap at MFTL+ without a hard statement or showing backing it.

Did you watch TTGL?

Considering I've made a respect thread for GL and have participated in multiple major revisions of the series it would be weird if I somehow didn't watch TTGL.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

The fact they can grow stronger outright shows that they have an ever increasing upper limit, so their speed will always been defined by a real number

Are you saying going higher than infinity is impossible in fiction? Ever growing power while being infinite isn’t an anti-feat. They already have infinite Spiral Power, and their Spiral Power can continuously increase. Greater Spiral Power is clearly shown to indicate greater speed, as combining to beings with Spiral Power, who on their own can’t match someone, can suddenly match the person in question

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are you saying going higher than infinity is impossible in fiction?

I'm saying that your point of having infinite spiral power goes against your claims in this very thread, since they reach higher levels of power constantly so they never had infinite energy in the first place.

Greater Spiral Power is clearly shown to indicate greater speed

Yes, which is why they're a higher degree of MFTL+ rather than infinite. They don't meet the standards for it which is why it got removed in the first place.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I'm saying that your point of having infinite spiral power goes against your claims in this very thread, since they reach higher levels of power constantly so they never had infinite energy in the first place.

Yes they did, the light novel implied that they did. And why isn’t fiction, which always has a lot of non-sense, not allowed to grow beyond something that’s already infinite? We already accept that you can be higher into even 2-A. I’m pretty sure growing beyond infinity is possible

Yes, which is why they're a higher degree of MFTL+ rather than infinite. They don't meet the standards for it which is why it got removed in the first place.

They never had infinite removed because they’ve never had it, what

 

[Qawsedf234]

They never had infinite removed because they’ve never had it,

You are correct, they were immeasurable not infinite I had just confused the two.

But for the same reason that was removed I'm against this one. They don't have the evidence for anything more than "At least MFTL+" since they lack hard statements and feats.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

But for the same reason that was removed I'm against this one. They don't have the evidence for anything more than "At least MFTL+" since they lack hard statements and feats.

Speed being proportionate to Spiral Power levels is still up there, it hasn’t been debunked. As was shown in episode 3, Kamina on his own wasn’t capable of keeping up with Viral, but with Simon he can all of a sudden match him, because of their Spiral Powers “slamming into one another”

If speed is accepted as proportionate to Spiral Power, infinite speed would be consistent, because the characters have infinite amounts of Spiral Power

I really don’t like calling Spiral Power, “Spiral Energy” it sounds weird

 

[Qawsedf234]

Speed being proportionate to Spiral Power levels is still up there, it hasn’t been debunked

I never disagreed with it. It just isn't evidence for Infinite without more.

If speed is accepted as proportionate to Spiral Power, infinite speed would be consistent, because the characters have infinite amounts of Spiral Power

I'm not seeing this as a valid way for Infinite. Especially when by your own proposal they gain more energy going against the idea that they have infinite pools of energy.

The AP stuff is probably fine up to 960x. But nothing given here convinces me that they have infinite speed.

 

[Sus]

@Qawsedf234 makes sense

i agree with everything except speed

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I'm not seeing this as a valid way for Infinite. Especially when by your own proposal they gain more energy going against the idea that they have infinite pools of energy.

Why aren’t they allowed to have more than infinite amounts of Spiral Power? It’s fiction, it’s known for doing a lot of nonsensical stuff

 

[Cloozuma]

Why aren’t they allowed to have more than infinite amounts of Spiral Power? It’s fiction, it’s known for doing a lot of nonsensical stuff

infinite stuff ≠ infinite speed

 

[BluudyManikin777]

infinite stuff ≠ infinite speed

Omfg, did you read the op? I’m NOT saying that infinite speed should be given ONLY because they have infinite energy, that’s just a half-truth, im saying they should have infinite speed because speed in the verse is directly proportionate to the energy, and they have infinite amounts of it

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[N_Kardashev]

ultima was with u with the speed stuff, so bring him in here

 

[BluudyManikin777]

ultima was with u with the speed stuff, so bring him in here

That was for Immeasurable speed, I'm just waiting on DT, so I decided to just touch on another topic

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

AP thing is fine imo. I'm neutral on speed

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Boota (Pigmole Form): Massively FTL+ (As one half of which powers Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, he should be this fast)

Boota (Evolution Form): Massively FTL+ (Should be far superior to his Pigmole self, after absorbing much of Lordgenome’s Spiral Power)

Boota (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth): Massively FTL+ (Should be comparable in speed to his previous self)

He shouldn't even be MFTL+, as SGGL's MFTL+ is only for his attack speed. He and SGGL should just scale above AGL's Sub-Rel

 

[BluudyManikin777]

He shouldn't even be MFTL+, as SGGL's MFTL+ is only for his attack speed.

He should, speed is proportionate to Spiral Power levels. As per what has been shown above, having more Spiral Energy equates to greater speed

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He should, speed is proportionate to Spiral Power levels. As per what has been shown above, having more Spiral Energy equates to greater speed

What? How does translate to SGGL scaling to his own attack speed?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

What? How does translate to SGGL scaling to his own attack speed?

SGGL's attack speed is gotten from the feat it pulled off with the Spiral Power that runs the thing. It should be that fast in every other speed type via Spiral Power. Any actual refutes on why Spiral Power =/= Speed?

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait. When did Nia get spiral energy into herself? the only one I remember for that is Simon.

Also shouldn’t the pilots for their own mech’s have a High Complex Multiverse WITH Mech? It’s not like they have the power itself

 

[RisingIons]

The mechs literally don't function without a pilot capable of powering it....did you watch the show?

 

[BlackeJan]

The mechs literally don't function without a pilot capable of powering it....did you watch the show?

If I didn’t watch the show I wouldn’t even know the names nor knew anything about the show

Im just saying that just because they powered up the mech doesn’t mean their powers is what makes the Mech that strong, it’s just all u needed was to become the key to operate it. The Mech is it’s own power

 

[BluudyManikin777]

If I didn’t watch the show I wouldn’t even know the names nor knew anything about the show

Im just saying that just because they powered up the mech doesn’t mean their powers is what makes the Mech that strong, it’s just all u needed was to become the key to operate it. The Mech is it’s own power

No, they are powerful without mecha, especially Simon, who fought Anti-Spiral without one, because he’s mastered Spiral Power, he can release it without the use of mecha

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Wait. When did Nia get spiral energy into herself? the only one I remember for that is Simon.

Literally EVERY being has Spiral Power, with the exception of artificial beings such as Beastmen (Viral is the only Beastman with Spiral Power)

Also shouldn’t the pilots for their own mech’s have a High Complex Multiverse WITH Mech? It’s not like they have the power itself

they do now

 

[Qawsedf234]

it....did you watch the show?

Chill out there

 

[RisingIons]

Chill out there

You're being extra sensitive.

 

[RisingIons]

No, they are powerful without mecha, especially Simon, who fought Anti-Spiral without one, because he’s mastered Spiral Power, he can release it without the use of mecha

Pretty much this. Plus the fact that the mechs take the form of the pilot as their energy gets stronger, to the point where every pilot had their own mech, and their combined energy was creating a super spiral universe. They are producing the power for the mech, not the other way around.