Asta begins his martial artist training

[Epsilon_R]

Ain't no way OPM fans getting packed by Arnold lmfao.

Fixed

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Eh I already gave my arguments as to why Garou wins.

Too advanced combat+ Good regen+ sword deflection with WSRSF+ instant win with just a graze+ too advanced adaptability makes me believe Asta is on the losing side here.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I did address these claims.

 

[Maitreya12]

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I did address these claims.

I mean….I don’t think so or at least not in a way that I think puts Asta over Garou, but I’m not gonna keep quoting your debates with others since I already have my response to your claims.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Technically, you haven't addressed my arguments, you just believe your previous responses are still somehow superior. I can't really force you to. So... let's leave it as that.

 

[Maitreya12]

Technically, you haven't addressed my arguments, you just believe your previous responses are still somehow superior. I can't really force you to. So... let's leave it as that.

Uh no that’s not true…like at all lol.

You quoted my post and put forth your arguments, and then I quoted your response and countered your arguments with my own. And then you, simply left it at that. So yes I do think my arguments are superior because you did not refute the arguments I put forth towards you. You just simply didn’t address them even if you were wrong or misquoted positions I supposedly had.

Why would I start quoting your responses to other people for the points you bring up in their arguments instead of you just, you know….responding to the argument I present to you lol.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

simply left it at that

???

If I did it was an accident. Ill scan through the thread and respond if i see it.

 

[Recon1511]

Its a bad idea if this is how he deals with swordsmen. Asta's demon slayer sword is already large and he can increase the size of his demon slayer. Garou wouldn't want that running through his slim torso. Garou wouldn't want him doing this too. And as for the grabbing part... Considering Asta's AP advantage of ~ Lucius > Complete Lucifero > 1.6x + Piercing/slashing damage... If Garou grabs Asta sword at full swing he gets his hand cut off.

Fair enough, though I don't think Garou would resort to allow himself to be stabbed if he isn't 100% sure it would mean landing a killing blow.

Well he has a few techniques to adapt to, especially with his inexperience with swordsmanship on or near Asta's level of skill. Asta also has an impressive AD as i said before but it is probably not as impressive as Garou. It's still worth noting it tho because Garou has reached his max AP in this key while Asta has the advantage and he can still get stronger + improve his techniques...

Let's make some clarifications here; This isn't Garou's "Max AP", the separation between Post Darkshine and Post Sage is literally seconds apart Garou can perfectly keep growing in AP (Just not to the point of tier jumping since it apparently goes against vs threads rules lmfao). The only relevant difference between these 2 keys is that Post Sage has perfected his martial arts and has access to his Fa Jin Dura neg techniques.

So yes, Garou can keep growing stronger and likely at a higher pace than Asta.

If we consider Garou's inability to predict Asta's moves, he wouldn't be able to land hits on Asta directly. Asta, however, can predict his moves and react instinctively to avoid them, on top of Asta's extended range with his massive sword, flight, ranged attacks, and swordsmanship skills. I don't see Garou landing a blow on Asta before Asta disembodies Garou.

And I don't really see Asta landing a decisive blow on him either considering Garou is an user of a defensive martial art and on top of that his IR is advanced enough to not rely on his senses to dodge and counter attacks made at him with his techniques.

Asta has 5 minutes before Devil Union expires to win and on top of that Garou most likely would have become strong and fast enough (not to blitz) to start overwhelming him as well.

As others mentioned as well Garou has access to near instant Low-Mid regen so even if Asta lands some slashes he can just regenerate and keep fighting.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't like repeating myself but okay.

Cool…Garou can still literally just adapt and evolve to with his skill level too lol. It’s a really hard ability cause Garou has some busted reactive evolution.

I addressed this. You have to prove Garou can adapt to someone as skillful as Asta instantly. He might be able to over time but Asta would've taken advantage of that and beaten him.

Nope but not necessarily needed. Since 1 he’s deflecting then with WSRSF, meaning the martial art in of itself is effective against swordsmanship, and also other more skilled swordsmanship/spear work and that level of skill he has with the martial art is ridiculous. And 2. Garou can also literally just adapt to Asta.

I have addressed this already. His level of skill with Taijutsu has little swordsmanship experience. In fact, he lets the swordsman land attacks on him which isn't a very good way to handle someone like Asta who is far more skilled than the swordsmen Garou has faced. Asta's level of skill, precognition, instinctive reaction, range advantage with his large sword, flight, etc. are enough to counter WSRSF.


It will take a while for Garou to adapt to someone on Asta's level, especially when he has several other abilities Asta has in addition.

After reading this please don't spam Garou's adapts without logic.

Here you go. And no, his rib cage and hole in his gut were regenerated instantly when he went into spiral Garou mode. Including all of his severe burns at the hands of Orochi as well.

So Asta’s gonna have a pretty hard time dealing with that level of regen. All assuming Garou doesn’t just adapt GG immediately into the fight of course.

Asta has an AP advantage, upscale chain, and piercing/slashing damage. With all things considered, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended like this. And I know Garou can't regenerate from damage like that.


If your response mirrors your fellow supporters I will ignore it. Don't slow down the debate.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Let's make some clarifications here; This isn't Garou's "Max AP", the separation between Post Darkshine and Post Sage is literally seconds apart Garou can perfectly keep growing in AP (Just not to the point of tier jumping since it apparently goes against vs threads rules lmfao). The only relevant difference between these 2 keys is that Post Sage has perfected his martial arts and has access to his Fa Jin Dura neg techniques.

So yes, Garou can keep growing stronger and likely at a higher pace than Asta.

Thanks for the clarification. IF Garou's AD rate is higher than Asta's, I suppose Asta's AD would slow down Garou's ability to surpass him because Garou has to get past Asta's AP advantage, his upscale chain and he would have to be strong enough to take piercing/slashing damage without suffering severe damage.

And I don't really see Asta landing a decisive blow on him either considering Garou is an user of a defensive martial art and on top of that his IR is advanced enough to not rely on his senses to dodge and counter attacks made at him with his techniques.

Asta has 5 minutes before Devil Union expires to win and on top of that Garou most likely would have become strong and fast enough (not to blitz) to start overwhelming him as well.

As others mentioned as well Garou has access to near instant Low-Mid regen so even if Asta lands some slashes he can just regenerate and keep fighting.

Asta is aware of his time limit. In fact, this tells him that he needs to wrap up the fight quickly. This fact forces Asta to go for killing blows each time within those 5 mins. Low Mid regen is not enough for these types of damage.

So I believe Asta defeats Garou with his initial AP advantage + piercing and slashing damage, swordsmanship skill with taijutsu advantage, Garou's low experience with swordsmen inferior to Asta, Asta's precognition, flight, range, etc.

Yes I know Garou can adapt to Asta with enough time, I know Garou has instinctive reactions. I know Garou can become faster than Asta with his AD and I know Garou is a good martial artist. However, Asta also has instinctive reactions, precognition and a good AD. Garou has never faced someone as skillful as Asta with a sword, and Asta has these little advantages with his flight, sword size, ranged attacks. There just isn’t a way Garou can survive long enough to surpass Asta’s advantages.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This debate really wasn’t as toxic as I expected.

 

[Epiccheev]

If Garou grabs the swing or traps it the blade is halting immediately due to superior LS, he's only getting chopped if he fails to react to it. (not to mention getting stabbed through his chest isn't a big deal, since he got stabbed by Royal Ripper's blades who and Orochi's tendrils. and in the former was able to keep the blade stuck to his chest through msucles, wich he can do here due to LS difference)

Now, for the skill debate let's go over each character. (watch out, long text.)
Skill growth/adaptation: Pretty much all of Garou's growth from his first hero hunter key to the last one happened in a few days, with pretty much everything from his fight vs darkshine to his full monster key happening in a single afternoon to night. He goes from getting stomped by Darkshine using his IR while sleeping (his sleeping state reduced his muscle coordination to the point he was unable to use WSRSF and other martial arts.) to keeping up with heavy difficulty due to him being able to outdo WSRSF through sheer strength. (With WSRSF being able to deflect blows capable of ending the fight instantly as stated by Garou, Metal bat and even Murata himself.) to combining WSRSF and WICF instinctively (the latter is a style he has only seen Bomb use once and his vision was blurry due to blood loss and severe exhaustion. With Bomb being said to be even stronger and more experience than Pre Awakening Breath Bang, as he's the older brother and kept using the same self created style his whole life.) And then use a technique he had never before seen wich even 2 brothers who stand at the top of Martial arts scaling chain with dozens of years of experience in their individual techniques had thought impossible. After that he gets burried by the MA base collapsing and eventually resurfaces in his sleeping state again and defeats Bomb by using his own martial art style against him (Once again, defeated the very creator of the technique with dozens of years of experience on him with WICF, wich he had only seen once poorly) and then fights against Awakening Breath Bang, instantly copying the technique Bang had never shown to him before, proceeds to use EHRF (wich he only read a small part of due to being interrupted, he had to conceptualize the entire rest of the martial art by himself.) and then fuses WSRSF and WICF again to create RASRF (another ultimate technique that needed 2 grandmasters to be used he never saw his entire life.) and proceeds to beat Bang with it while sleeping... Then he wakes up, Easily beats Flashy Flash and then Platinum sperm, perfects his fist with Sage Centipede, Fights Saitama and uses Fa Jin. (Fa Jin as a whole is never mentioned as one of the martial arts he copied, with it being possibly his own creation, he also uses what is seemingly a prototype version of it against Darkshine, wich could mean he created in on the fly for fighting opponents with a massive AP difference.) Again, this is what he did in a single day, without any tutor figure to motivate him in battle or training montages inbetween.

Technical Mastery: Garou in this key uses his Monster Calamity God Slaying Fist, wich is a mix between 13 different martial styles and his own Fa Jin. He describes it as a seemless mix between all these martial arts capable of freely interchanging between any of them without losing his flow. Among these Martial arts are:
WSRSF(Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist): A martial art created from scratch by Bang after ditching his old martial art, the EHRF(Exploding Heart Release Fist.) It requires a clear mind state and extremely precise movements and knowledge of flow, in order to incorporate a calm stream in your movements capable of Deflecting and manipulating Kinetic energy to then incorporate a raging tide that sends that energy back twofold in a counter. The martial art also includes the ability to instinctively react to danger with it, and the ability to exploit pressure points with well trained fingertips to make your opponent lose the ability to fight back.

WICF (Whirlwing Iron Cutting Fist) Bomb's martial art wich he uses from even before Bang created EHRF. It's a martial art that involves rapid hand and wrist movements to create multiple slashing shockwaves that spawn instantly from hand motion, with extended melee range. It creates a centripetal force that slices everything within it's range to ribbon and can be used with kicks as well. He used this martial art to defeat Bang's EHRF who was known as the strongest Martial artist in the world even back then.

EHRF (Exploding Heart Release Fist.) Bang's First Martial art wich is a polar opposite to WSRSF. It uses body control to time your heart beats with your punches while increasing their intensity in order to release heavy destructive attacks that can create shockwaves around the fist that deal damage even if the punch itself is perfectly deflected. It also grants a damage boost that would have led Bang to one-shot Sleeping Garou, as stated by Bomb and later aacknowledged by Bang himself.

RASRF (Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist) A joint technique created by Bang and Bomb wich Garou can replicate by dividing his mind in 2 and using WSRSF with half his body and WICF with the other. It consists on using a combination of both to generate shockwaves that travels through hard surfaces such as bones/shell/carapaces and turns them into dust with a direct hit. It can propel itself and resound through the kilometer wide body of Elder Centipede and break it's carapace into small pieces, and later on is used to incap Bang with a single graze (Bang being one of the few heroes capable of standing up after getting hit by Garou's radiation, wich even Zombieman with his regen was unable to do.)

Fa Jin: This one is not mentioned as one of the martial arts Garou stole in his Dojo Hunting and is first seen possibly vs Darkshine and possibly vs Metal Bat, hinting it might be his own creation. It creates a shockwave that ignores bones and muscles directly targetting organs, and is capable of turning rubble around it into fine sand

Awakening Breath: While not a proper Martial art style, it's a breathing technique wich allows him to boost physical stats severely, as seen by Bang being able to defeat a stronger version of a foe he and his brother had no hope of beating together at the cost of his life. It's also stated in a databook to improve agility.

Analytical prediction:
Even early Garou during his hero hunter key is capable of dodging danmaku ricochet from a profissional slingshot using hero in a dark alleyway. Said hero being able to instantly calculate ricochet routes that would lead to the same bullet hitting a target from all directions multiple times. Garou is only grazed in the leg once due to the hero suddenly attacking andthe fact his eyesight hadn't gotten used to it yet. He also has pretty good eye to hand coordination, being able to deflect all shots from an overloaded customized Machine gun while injured exhausted,ill and poisoned. and this key is superior to a key that can beat Bang, a veteran martial artist hailed as best in the world and rival to Atomic Samurai, whose few pupils who were capable of keeping up with him are able to predict and cut 100.000 hair strands coming at them from all directions in an enclosed space with eyes closed while sensing killing intent. (wich would be around 33.333 hair strands from each.) with each one further dulling their blades and covering them in hair wich makes their movement difficult. So, in terms of AD this Garou is >Bang=Atomic Samurai>3 disciples=predict and cut 33,333 hair strands from all directions with eyes closed through sensing intent. Garou can also predict movements from Saitama and keep up with him, going as far as 6 movements ahead from an opponent absurdly stronger and faster. (Granted, Saitama was holding back, but his stat difference in speed and power was still clearly visible through the fight.) I'd also like to mention that other than Kiai's confusing senses with swordsmanship his resistance to having his Ki read is useless here, since even though Garou can somehow see Bioenergy moving through his opponents body he only ever used it to find where Sage Centipede's regen was coming from.

Instinctive Reactions:
Garou can easily dodge attacks coming from behind from other martial artists, such as Flashy Flash and Chain n'toad, the former being a Speedster Ninja specialized in assassination and one of the most skilled fighters in the hero association and the other a chain and sickle user wich Garou had no experience at all. Not only that Garou can react even with all his senses sealed, like Sleeping Zenitsu style and then use his multiple martial art syles, and his skill growth and copying are fully active here, even if he takes a penalty in muscle coordination. His reflexes are also godly in the sense he was able to dodge attacks from foes as fast as him from very close through minimal movements, such as when he dodged Genos blade rushing at him while using other monsters as cover, barely dodged his eye getting hit by Golden Ball's first sneak shot in a dark alleyway, with minimal movement,wich then began ricocheting.

Experience:
While Garou has never fought your average millenia old martial artist he has experienced a vast array of foes and abilities, such as his fight against Bang, a 81 year old martial artist and his older Brother Bomb. (Bang was already considered one of the strongest martial artists in the world and winner of multiple super martial tournaments at his 30s) Bang being a genius who created EHRF from started and became strongest with it and then proceeded to drop it at his 30s after being defeated by Bomb's WICF (wich he masters from even before then to current days) and create his own martial art, the WSRSF wich is the polar opposite in philosophy and fighting style from his previous martial art, so he has 40~ of mastery in that art while Bomb has 50~ on his at least. Garou has also been taught by Bang since childhood, as seen by flashbacks and has laid waste to many Dojos in his hunt for power.
Not only that he has fought through foes who vastly outranged him before, such as Orochi, who not only is a fighting genius capable of stealing WSRSF from Garou by a glance, but also has many extensible and flexible tendrils, a huge size difference and the ability to sprout arms and sharp mouths from them and to use Heat attacks Garou had no way of dodgin other than enduring. (and while he couldn't defeat him at the time, Asta here not only has much worse range but a somewhat tame AP advantage and no speed difference, wich Garou is likely to soon change.) He also fought Spring Mustachio and Royal Ripper, the former a disciple of another member of the samurai council along with Atomic Samurai, and the former a seasoned killer that can freely twist his jointand manipulate his body to create hard to predict strikes. (both of wich he defeated through adamage exchange.) Not to mention other mosnters like Rover and such that range spammed him and other weapon users coordinating between themselves.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Jesus Christ

 

[azontr]

why

 

[RandomGuy2345]

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Anyway, I’ll respond to that later today

 

[Recon1511]

Analytical prediction:
Even early Garou during his hero hunter key is capable of dodging danmaku ricochet from a profissional slingshot using hero in a dark alleyway. Said hero being able to instantly calculate ricochet routes that would lead to the same bullet hitting a target from all directions multiple times. Garou is only grazed in the leg once due to the hero suddenly attacking andthe fact his eyesight hadn't gotten used to it yet. He also has pretty good eye to hand coordination, being able to deflect all shots from an overloaded customized Machine gun while injured exhausted,ill and poisoned. and this key is superior to a key that can beat Bang, a veteran martial artist hailed as best in the world and rival to Atomic Samurai, whose few pupils who were capable of keeping up with him are able to predict and cut 10,000 hair strands coming at them from all directions in an enclosed space with eyes closed while sensing killing intent. (wich would be around 3,333 hair strands from each.) with each one further dulling their blades and covering them in hair wich makes their movement difficult. So, in terms of AD this Garou is >Bang=Atomic Samurai>3 disciples=predict and cut 3,333 hair strands from all directions with eyes closed through sensing intent. Garou can also predict movements from Saitama and keep up with him, going as far as 6 movements ahead from an opponent absurdly stronger and faster. (Granted, Saitama was holding back, but his stat difference in speed and power was still clearly visible through the fight.) I'd also like to mention that other than Kiai's confusing senses with swordsmanship his resistance to having his Ki read is useless here, since even though Garou can somehow see Bioenergy moving through his opponents body he only ever used it to find where Sage Centipede's regen was coming from.

It was actually 100.000 hair strands

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It was actually 100.000 hair strands

 

[Maitreya12]

I don't like repeating myself but okay.

Ok buddy

I addressed this. You have to prove Garou can adapt to someone as skillful as Asta instantly. He might be able to over time but Asta would've taken advantage of that and beaten him.

You mean like how he kept getting better against Bang, a high level skilled person, to the point of a single graze of his martial arts being enough to completely take Bang out of the fight completely.

While literally asleep mind you lol.

I have addressed this already. His level of skill with Taijutsu has little swordsmanship experience. In fact, he lets the swordsman land attacks on him which isn't a very good way to handle someone like Asta who is far more skilled than the swordsmen Garou has faced. Asta's level of skill, precognition, instinctive reaction, range advantage with his large sword, flight, etc. are enough to counter WSRSF.

No you have not. In fact you missed the point where his specific martial arts is also catered to swordsmanship attacks. High level ones at that considering even Atomic Samurai considers Bang his rival in this regard. So the martial art in of itself is not lacking against swordsmanship since it’s catered to being able to deflect all kinds of attacks. Also no, Garou literally reflects sword attacks back at his opponent, only letting them hit him if he’s also gonna be hitting them back at the same time. Which is an instant KO against Asta. Also has his own precognition and instinctive reactions or even his swordsmanship can be easily deflected by WSRSF. Oh and Garou also has other ways of dealing with ranged attacks like invisible air slashes he can dish out instantly as well.

Assuming Asta does have the skill advantage at the beginning of the fight even doesn’t mean much since Garou can quickly adapt to the point where the skill gap becomes negligible at most, at which point again all he needs is a simple graze to win. Also assuming he’s not simultaneously getting stronger and faster than Asta as he adapts to Asta’s skill as well.

It will take a while for Garou to adapt to someone on Asta's level, especially when he has several other abilities Asta has in addition.

After reading this please don't spam Garou's adapts without logic.

Define “a while” considering Garou has shown to adapt incredibly rapidly as he’s fighting. His strength, speed, skill level, all of it is simultaneously being adapted and evolved against his opponent. Even if Garou’s put on the defensive for a moment he quickly starts becoming able to dodge Asta’s attacks much easier, deflect them much better, and attacks become stronger. If he’s not instantly taken out right from the get go it’s basically all downhill for Asta from there.

So no I don’t think you saying “It’s gonna take a while for Garou to adapt” on its own with no basis is a suitable argument.

Asta has an AP advantage, upscale chain, and piercing/slashing damage. With all things considered, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended like this. And I know Garou can't regenerate from damage like that.

Asta has a 1.3x advantage. Negligible at best. To do what you’re suggesting he would at least need a 7.5x advantage to one shot. Also Asta couldn’t even do the feat he’s performing there against Garou considering Garou has a lifting strength advantage so he could literally just catch Asta’s sword. By the way, AP and lifting strength don’t equate to one another. Asta having a slight AP advantage doesn’t stop Garou from being able to catch his sword dead one thanks to his lifting strength advantage.

And then it’s just a graze from there to win.

If your response mirrors your fellow supporters I will ignore it. Don't slow down the debate.

You’re free to do as you wish however I do not find your arguments well substantiated in support of your notion of Asta beating Garou.

In fact I really don’t find them convincing a lot due to how you have to assume Asta has to instantly and immediately take out Garou so he doesn’t adapt to Asta all while making sure he isn’t even grazed by a single attack or he’s done.

Which is simply a far less likely scenario than Garou simply being able to keep up with Asta, maybe be at a slight disadvantage for a period of time, before quickly adapting and being able to land even just the slightest graze on Asta to completely take him out. Meanwhile Asta has to struggle to overcome Garou’s great regen.

 

[Recon1511]

Iaian skill stomps Theory on a stats equalized match btw

 

[Maitreya12]

TLDR

I appreciate and respect the amount of effort you put into that post.

But turn it down a notch. We don’t need bibles here

 

[Epiccheev]

So, with all that being said i don't think that Asta can skill stomp Garou at all in this key. where even if he was extraordinarily more skilled wich i honestly don't think he is (if at all) he'd need to somehow:
1. Mantain constant damage on Garou to overtax his regeneration
2. Avoid his blades getting caught by his hands or deflected by WSRSF wich he can use with hands and legs (his main blade being pretty huge a target.)
3. Avoid a single graze from RASRF and avoid blocking or parrying it so the shockwaves can't break his arms (assuming it doesn't go straight to his bones, since it covered a kilometer wide centipede's carapace. wich makes this an herculean task)
4. Do all that before he can gain a sizeable speed advantage (wich will happen very quickly, even if he can't grow to blitz)
5. Do all that before he can develop a counter or possibly even use Fa Jin
6. Do all that before his 5 minutes full body, 10 minutes single arm amp with Devil union is up
7. Avoid all other manners of weird attack Garou's funky martial arts can do, like creating air slashes with rapid hand rotations, martial arts switches, AP and Speed amping with Awakening Breath and AP stomp worthy damage boosts with EHRF + Shockwaves that will harm even if the punch itself is blocked or deflected.

Imo all that is enough for Garou to win more often than not, since Asta is not really an slouch in skill.

 

[Epiccheev]

It was actually 100.000 hair strands

Wait, really? pretty sure the TL i read said 10,000

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

If Garou grabs the swing or traps it the blade is halting immediately due to superior LS, he's only getting chopped if he fails to react to it. (not to mention getting stabbed through his chest isn't a big deal, since he got stabbed by Royal Ripper's blades who and Orochi's tendrils. and in the former was able to keep the blade stuck to his chest through msucles, wich he can do here due to LS difference)

Now, for the skill debate let's go over each character. (watch out, long text.)
Skill growth/adaptation: Pretty much all of Garou's growth from his first hero hunter key to the last one happened in a few days, with pretty much everything from his fight vs darkshine to his full monster key happening in a single afternoon to night. He goes from getting stomped by Darkshine using his IR while sleeping (his sleeping state reduced his muscle coordination to the point he was unable to use WSRSF and other martial arts.) to keeping up with heavy difficulty due to him being able to outdo WSRSF through sheer strength. (With WSRSF being able to deflect blows capable of ending the fight instantly as stated by Garou, Metal bat and even Murata himself.) to combining WSRSF and WICF instinctively (the latter is a style he has only seen Bomb use once and his vision was blurry due to blood loss and severe exhaustion. With Bomb being said to be even stronger and more experience than Pre Awakening Breath Bang, as he's the older brother and kept using the same self created style his whole life.) And then use a technique he had never before seen wich even 2 brothers who stand at the top of Martial arts scaling chain with dozens of years of experience in their individual techniques had thought impossible. After that he gets burried by the MA base collapsing and eventually resurfaces in his sleeping state again and defeats Bomb by using his own martial art style against him (Once again, defeated the very creator of the technique with dozens of years of experience on him with WICF, wich he had only seen once poorly) and then fights against Awakening Breath Bang, instantly copying the technique Bang had never shown to him before, proceeds to use EHRF (wich he only read a small part of due to being interrupted, he had to conceptualize the entire rest of the martial art by himself.) and then fuses WSRSF and WICF again to create RASRF (another ultimate technique that needed 2 grandmasters to be used he never saw his entire life.) and proceeds to beat Bang with it while sleeping... Then he wakes up, Easily beats Flashy Flash and then Platinum sperm, perfects his fist with Sage Centipede, Fights Saitama and uses Fa Jin. (Fa Jin as a whole is never mentioned as one of the martial arts he copied, with it being possibly his own creation, he also uses what is seemingly a prototype version of it against Darkshine, wich could mean he created in on the fly for fighting opponents with a massive AP difference.) Again, this is what he did in a single day, without any tutor figure to motivate him in battle or training montages inbetween.

Technical Mastery: Garou in this key uses his Monster Calamity God Slaying Fist, wich is a mix between 13 different martial styles and his own Fa Jin. He describes it as a seemless mix between all these martial arts capable of freely interchanging between any of them without losing his flow. Among these Martial arts are:
WSRSF(Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist): A martial art created from scratch by Bang after ditching his old martial art, the EHRF(Exploding Heart Release Fist.) It requires a clear mind state and extremely precise movements and knowledge of flow, in order to incorporate a calm stream in your movements capable of Deflecting and manipulating Kinetic energy to then incorporate a raging tide that sends that energy back twofold in a counter. The martial art also includes the ability to instinctively react to danger with it, and the ability to exploit pressure points with well trained fingertips to make your opponent lose the ability to fight back.

WICF (Whirlwing Iron Cutting Fist) Bomb's martial art wich he uses from even before Bang created EHRF. It's a martial art that involves rapid hand and wrist movements to create multiple slashing shockwaves that spawn instantly from hand motion, with extended melee range. It creates a centripetal force that slices everything within it's range to ribbon and can be used with kicks as well. He used this martial art to defeat Bang's EHRF who was known as the strongest Martial artist in the world even back then.

EHRF (Exploding Heart Release Fist.) Bang's First Martial art wich is a polar opposite to WSRSF. It uses body control to time your heart beats with your punches while increasing their intensity in order to release heavy destructive attacks that can create shockwaves around the fist that deal damage even if the punch itself is perfectly deflected. It also grants a damage boost that would have led Bang to one-shot Sleeping Garou, as stated by Bomb and later aacknowledged by Bang himself.

RASRF (Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist) A joint technique created by Bang and Bomb wich Garou can replicate by dividing his mind in 2 and using WSRSF with half his body and WICF with the other. It consists on using a combination of both to generate shockwaves that travels through hard surfaces such as bones/shell/carapaces and turns them into dust with a direct hit. It can propel itself and resound through the kilometer wide body of Elder Centipede and break it's carapace into small pieces, and later on is used to incap Bang with a single graze (Bang being one of the few heroes capable of standing up after getting hit by Garou's radiation, wich even Zombieman with his regen was unable to do.)

Fa Jin: This one is not mentioned as one of the martial arts Garou stole in his Dojo Hunting and is first seen possibly vs Darkshine and possibly vs Metal Bat, hinting it might be his own creation. It creates a shockwave that ignores bones and muscles directly targetting organs, and is capable of turning rubble around it into fine sand

Awakening Breath: While not a proper Martial art style, it's a breathing technique wich allows him to boost physical stats severely, as seen by Bang being able to defeat a stronger version of a foe he and his brother had no hope of beating together at the cost of his life. It's also stated in a databook to improve agility.

Analytical prediction:
Even early Garou during his hero hunter key is capable of dodging danmaku ricochet from a profissional slingshot using hero in a dark alleyway. Said hero being able to instantly calculate ricochet routes that would lead to the same bullet hitting a target from all directions multiple times. Garou is only grazed in the leg once due to the hero suddenly attacking andthe fact his eyesight hadn't gotten used to it yet. He also has pretty good eye to hand coordination, being able to deflect all shots from an overloaded customized Machine gun while injured exhausted,ill and poisoned. and this key is superior to a key that can beat Bang, a veteran martial artist hailed as best in the world and rival to Atomic Samurai, whose few pupils who were capable of keeping up with him are able to predict and cut 10,000 hair strands coming at them from all directions in an enclosed space with eyes closed while sensing killing intent. (wich would be around 3,333 hair strands from each.) with each one further dulling their blades and covering them in hair wich makes their movement difficult. So, in terms of AD this Garou is >Bang=Atomic Samurai>3 disciples=predict and cut 3,333 hair strands from all directions with eyes closed through sensing intent. Garou can also predict movements from Saitama and keep up with him, going as far as 6 movements ahead from an opponent absurdly stronger and faster. (Granted, Saitama was holding back, but his stat difference in speed and power was still clearly visible through the fight.) I'd also like to mention that other than Kiai's confusing senses with swordsmanship his resistance to having his Ki read is useless here, since even though Garou can somehow see Bioenergy moving through his opponents body he only ever used it to find where Sage Centipede's regen was coming from.

Instinctive Reactions:
Garou can easily dodge attacks coming from behind from other martial artists, such as Flashy Flash and Chain n'toad, the former being a Speedster Ninja specialized in assassination and one of the most skilled fighters in the hero association and the other a chain and sickle user wich Garou had no experience at all. Not only that Garou can react even with all his senses sealed, like Sleeping Zenitsu style and then use his multiple martial art syles, and his skill growth and copying are fully active here, even if he takes a penalty in muscle coordination. His reflexes are also godly in the sense he was able to dodge attacks from foes as fast as him from very close through minimal movements, such as when he dodged Genos blade rushing at him while using other monsters as cover, barely dodged his eye getting hit by Golden Ball's first sneak shot in a dark alleyway, with minimal movement,wich then began ricocheting.

Experience:
While Garou has never fought your average millenia old martial artist he has experienced a vast array of foes and abilities, such as his fight against Bang, a 81 year old martial artist and his older Brother Bomb. (Bang was already considered one of the strongest martial artists in the world and winner of multiple super martial tournaments at his 30s) Bang being a genius who created EHRF from started and became strongest with it and then proceeded to drop it at his 30s after being defeated by Bomb's WICF (wich he masters from even before then to current days) and create his own martial art, the WSRSF wich is the polar opposite in philosophy and fighting style from his previous martial art, so he has 40~ of mastery in that art while Bomb has 50~ on his at least. Garou has also been taught by Bang since childhood, as seen by flashbacks and has laid waste to many Dojos in his hunt for power.
Not only that he has fought through foes who vastly outranged him before, such as Orochi, who not only is a fighting genius capable of stealing WSRSF from Garou by a glance, but also has many extensible and flexible tendrils, a huge size difference and the ability to sprout arms and sharp mouths from them and to use Heat attacks Garou had no way of dodgin other than enduring. (and while he couldn't defeat him at the time, Asta here not only has much worse range but a somewhat tame AP advantage and no speed difference, wich Garou is likely to soon change.) He also fought Spring Mustachio and Royal Ripper, the former a disciple of another member of the samurai council along with Atomic Samurai, and the former a seasoned killer that can freely twist his jointand manipulate his body to create hard to predict strikes. (both of wich he defeated through adamage exchange.) Not to mention other mosnters like Rover and such that range spammed him and other weapon users coordinating between themselves.

Common Brazilian W

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Iaian skill stomps Theory on a stats equalized match btw

Johnny solos both

 

[Recon1511]

Wait, really? pretty sure the TL i read said 10,000

Nah it's 100.000

 

[Arnoldstone18]

If Garou grabs the swing or traps it the blade is halting immediately due to superior LS, he's only getting chopped if he fails to react to it. (not to mention getting stabbed through his chest isn't a big deal, since he got stabbed by Royal Ripper's blades who and Orochi's tendrils. and in the former was able to keep the blade stuck to his chest through msucles, wich he can do here due to LS difference)

I disagree with this logic. Garou needs to be durable enough to not get slashed. He can’t just grab it without suffering any damage.

 

[Epiccheev]

I've been meaning to write a skill bible for Garou for some time. it just happened to be shat upon this match.

 

[azontr]

yall really just gangbanging Arnold rn

how it feels to be a BC supporter

 

[RandomGuy2345]

how it feels to be a BC supporter

How it feels when you diss 55th

 

[Epiccheev]

I disagree with this logic. Garou needs to be durable enough to not get slashed. He can’t just grab it without suffering any damage.

I didn't say he wouldn't at all. He can let himself be stabbed in non vital areas and clench his muscles to stop Asta from budging the blade, wich would be a positive trade for him due to regen. And he can also easily stop the blade swing with LS difference if he grabs it from the back or stops it with his hands by catching it from the sides. (He tries to stop it by putting his hand in front of the blades and he gets an Ethan Winters moment, tho.)

 

[Recon1511]

I disagree with this logic. Garou needs to be durable enough to not get slashed. He can’t just grab it without suffering any damage.

Well I mean the AP Gap isn't really that big to argue that he would cut right through Garou's hand so if Garou can grab it he can destroy it or simply yank it away from Asta with superior LS

He would suffer damage to his hand yeah but its nothing he can't regen from

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Did you guys actually read my arguments?

Asta has an AP advantage and an upscale chain on top of his slashing damage. Garou is losing his hand if he attempts to grab a sword at full swing. LS is not enough if your hand isn’t even durable to tank the attack in the first place let alone take its sharpness.

 

[Maitreya12]

People disagreeing with your arguments doesn’t mean nobodies reading them chief. It just means they’re disagreeing with you

The AP difference is like a 1.3-1.5x difference which is negligible at best. Garou can catch that with his superior lifting strength advantage or he can catch the sword in other ways without having to catch the blade. Like from the sides.

He ain’t losing his arm over a 1.5x AP difference lol. Especially when said arm can be instantly regenerated and then immediately adapted upon.

 

[Epiccheev]

Garou can close the gap with Awakening Breath, plus he has a dense shell instead of skin/muscle wich would lower the effects of slashing damage. The blade can cut him, and i don't think he can catch the smaller ones like Demon Dweller and Demon destroyer, but Demon slayer is pretty huge, wich means a sideways catch is possible. and with the LS difference he catches it anywhere that's not directly the blade and Asta can literally not budge the sword.

 

[Epiccheev]

Imma stop arguing for a while, since a lot of people are ganging up on Arnold at once. wich imo is quite frustrating

 

[Arnoldstone18]

People disagreeing with your arguments doesn’t mean nobodies reading them chief.

I swear to god I can’t take some of you OPM supporters seriously

If you can see Epicchev’s response that I tagged and see he has not taken account what I said. What posssessed you or took away your comprehension so you can say this dumb ass statement? What the **** is he actually disagreeing with? He obviously didn’t read it and now he is responding to it.

 

[Maitreya12]

Valid. I’ve already said my points and reasoning so I probably won’t feel the need to respond anymore either unless directly quoted

 

[Maitreya12]

I swear to god I can’t take some of you OPM supporters seriously

If you can see Epicchev’s response that I tagged and see he has not taken account what I said. What posssessed you or took away your comprehension so you can say this dumb ass statement? What the **** is he actually disagreeing with? He obviously didn’t read it and now he is responding to it.

you know from a person mentioning how surprised you are with the little toxicity in this thread….

I find you to be the person instigating the most toxicity here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Nah.. I can’t let someone like this get under my skin. I’m taking a breather.

 

[Maitreya12]

Literally from the reply all I see is Epiccheev just explaining why they disagree with you in the most normal way possible. Just addressing the points you bring up with his counters.

And for some reason this got u frothing at the mouth.

I think it’s best to take a break from this thread for rn my dude. We can start up the conversation again later.