Asta (BC) vs Demon King (NNT)

[Demon_Lord18]

Neither of these things being magical:

It comes from your demonic physiology.

Miasma is a passive corrosion and is something that demons release naturally.

Paralysis induction has only been used against much weaker characters, so I don't know if it would work here.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

So will you Elaborate or not?

No, I shouldn't even be here, I hate versus

 

[Majinere566]

5 pages spent on commandment debates that the Demon King never even used in character, The Ruler and few other things is crazy

Someone make a discussion rule to Ban NNT vs BC

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Whatever that isn’t stated to be magic… should be treated as such given how vague the source of magic is in the verse.

That's the way it is. Because the power system is magical so all the power present in the verse, will follow the magical. Although it depends on the context, as is the case with this Commandment. I reject this as magical, even though it is declared as magical (so weird).

Also, lazy to respond to this. As already said, that DK never used it in battle. Given that there is no rule of 'Ful power / Use of Commandment on DK', so I am also confused about what DK should do.

Not a wincon.

The ruler itself is magic so Anti Magic negates it easily.

I did'nt say wincon. The rule only works on magic, anti-magic can handle it

Secret, I just deliberately chose DK because I was bored. Or maybe I'll change my mind to choose Asta

 

[Robo432343]

im voting asta too fra

i think we have reached grace

 

[speedster352]

5 pages spent on commandment debates that the Demon King never even used in character, The Ruler and few other things is crazy

Someone make a discussion rule to Ban NNT vs BC

We are talking about the fact that the demon king can’t die as long as the commandments exist and Asta can’t negate his regeneration so whatever win con people are voting for is wrong.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We are talking about the fact that the demon king can’t die as long as the commandments exist and Asta can’t negate his regeneration so whatever win con people are voting for is wrong.

You can't just invalidate people voting for Asta based on your personal takes

 

[speedster352]

You can't just invalidate people voting for Asta based on your personal takes

How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta can’t stop the DK regeneration since it’s not magical and it doesn’t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?

 

[Joshyyy_64]

ON MY MOMMA YALL GOT ME FKED UP!!! Was I LIED to for 4 and a half pages straight going back and forth?!

 

[Joshyyy_64]

How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta can’t stop the DK regeneration since it’s not magical and it doesn’t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?

Nooooo speedster, your arguments were that the commandment curses weren't magic. dawg

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

As I am very busy these days, I will not be interested in this crt any more, but I still vote for DK

 

[Joshyyy_64]

im voting asta too fra

i think we have reached grace

I'm voting Asta. Please give us a tally

 

[Robo432343]

I'm voting Asta. Please give us a tally

@Joshyyy_64 @Robo432343 @CloverDragon03 @Epsilon_R @Majinere566 @Arnoldstone18 @Kazuma_kuwabara

@Demon_Lord18 @speedster352 @Makai641001 @MeliodasDeUzyy

 

[Majinere566]

I haven’t made a vote yet. All I did was try and correct some of the misinformation some of the NNT supporters tried to use

 

[ssgengar]

Epsilon_R made some pretty good points that I agree with

Asta FRA

 

[speedster352]

Just to clarify what’s Asta win con?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

@Joshyyy_64 @Robo432343 @CloverDragon03 @Epsilon_R @Majinere566 @Arnoldstone18 @Kazuma_kuwabara

@Demon_Lord18 @speedster352 @Makai641001 @MeliodasDeUzyy

Same, I only argued for Asta, I don't want to vote

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Epsilon_R made some pretty good points that I agree with

Asta FRA

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

You didn't do anything i carried the 7ds side

 

[ssgengar]

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

Lol you made good points too bros, he just had a comment that summed everything up nicely

 

[Joshyyy_64]

You didn't do anything i carried the 7ds side

Respectfully, I shall refrain from conversing with liars from this point forward. Thank you for understanding.

Kind regards,
Joshua.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Same, I only argued for Asta, I don't want to vote

not you tryna be the hero again

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Just to clarify what’s Asta win con?

...

 

[Arnoldstone18]

...

Aside from just beating the shit out of him while blocking and defending against virtually all his threats. A skillfully well placed Zetten is taking him out lol.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Merlin had the protection of the Supreme Divinity and eternal life.



Asta has neither of these to resist the commandment of Pacifism.

SBA would still apply. Asta should have passive resistance to curses since he can cloak himself in anti-magic (his own body literally generates anti-magic power now due to his contract with Liebe) and he HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka. Moreover, curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However, they can be manipulated by magical power.

Asta should have enhanced resistance to curses, considering he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy which seems to work on any energies that are of a paranormal whether it be derived from magical power or anything else. And just to ensure this is not a translation issue, here are the raws, which specifically refer to it as 「反エネルギーAnchi enerugī 」

Also magic isn't the only application of mana or magical power in verse,. To clarify mana is simply defined fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. And it seems curses from NNT are still derived from magical power however it's just a different application of it.

So regardless pacifism even if you want to insist that curses still aren't magic.

Also DK will win with Commandments, they're not magic, like what speedster said they are just law based curses that can’t be interacted with without special powers and DK can manipulate natural darkness

Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 「呪力 juryoku 」 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power 「魔力 maryoku」

For example, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large and that curse was powered by curse power, not magical power as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curse power and its derivatives (curses) because Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's hax shouldn't really affect Asta at all.

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

Asta had passive resistance to curses and HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka.

Moreover, he should have enhanced resistance, especially since he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy. Moreover, the raws specifically refer to it as 「反エネルギーAnchi enerugī 」 and has been shown to negate any form of paranormal or supernatural energy in BC, whether it be derived from magical power or anything else.

and just to be clear, magical power is just the name for refined mana, to clear mana is simply defined as fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however, is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. So regardless pacifism isn't really doing anything to Asta.



Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 「呪力 juryoku 」 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power 「魔力 maryoku」

Moreover, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curses. Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's shouldn't really affect Asta at all.

Its not same as 7DS

 

[Xinsignia1]

Its not same as 7DS

Doesn't need to be exactly the same considering SBA would still apply, and curses in SDS are still derived from magical power, and even if the weren't Asta should still be able to negate them considering they're supernatural in nature, so whether it's derived from magic or not, anti-magic should still be able to negate it given it erases magical power and curse power which are two different energies that power two different phenomena.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Declared not magic, but can be manipulated by magic power. Yes, the result is the same as magic, in the end Asta negates the curse of magic, not non-magic.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

and even if the weren't Asta should still be able to negate them considering they're supernatural in nature

Then the Asta will nullify the existence of the DK, since it is supernatural in nature.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

If non-magic power is manipulated by magic power, then the result will be magic. I can say this case is like the darkness in NNT.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Declared not magic, but can be manipulated by magic power. Yes, the result is the same as magic, in the end Asta negates the curse of magic, not non-magic.

I see what you mean, but hypothetically speaking even if were were to assume curses in SDS were not derived from magic power and some other type of energy, it still wouldn't affect Asta's abilities to nullify it since he directly negated the source of the curse, which is curse power and not magic power with demon-slayer and demon-dweller which is entirely different from causality break which specifically can only be achieved through demon-destroyer.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

If non-magic power is manipulated by magic power, then the result will be magic. I can say this case is like the darkness in NNT.

And Gilthunder's lightning

 

[Xinsignia1]

And Gilthunder's lightning

Causality break would still nullify considering it was still manipulated by magic. Damnatio uses his magical power to manipulate the atmosphere to attack enemies, yet Asta still nulled it with his causality break shield. So they can try to attack him with natural elements all the want, causality break would stull null it.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Causality break would still nullify considering it was still manipulated by magic. Damnatio uses his magical power to manipulate the atmosphere to attack enemies, yet Asta still nulled it with his causality break shield. So they can try to attack him with natural elements all the want, causality break would stull null it.

?

 

[Xinsignia1]

?

My bad, I wasn't being clear. I'm saying that if magical power is used to manipulate a natural phenomena, causality break could still reverse it since magic is still the source of said manipulation.

 

[Robo432343]

Asta doesn't use causality break to reverse someone's own reversing
thats not how he uses it
he still wins tho

 

[Xinsignia1]

If non-magic power is manipulated by magic power, then the result will be magic. I can say this case is like the darkness in NNT.

Yeah Darkness has always been confusing to me, but I've thought of two possible assumptions. Magical power is being used to manipulate darkness, or darkness is a differdnt type of supernatural energy. But it does seem likely that darkness, is some supernatural aspect that is manipulated by magical power rather than being magic power itself.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Asta doesn't use causality break to reverse someone's own reversing
thats not how he uses it
he still wins tho

Ah, sorry could you elaborate on this? (trying to see what you mean)

 

[Robo432343]

Ah, sorry could you elaborate on this? (trying to see what you mean)

Demon king and Asta both use reverse
but Asta cant use reverse in a way that someone else's reverse ability stopped reversing
both of their reverse abilities will cancel each other out
so nothing happens

 

[Xinsignia1]

Demon king and Asta both use reverse
but Asta cant use reverse in a way that someone else's reverse ability stopped reversing
both of their reverse abilities will cancel each other out
so nothing happens

Ha, I see what you mean. But out of curiosity what comment what were you referencing? (unless it was something I misspoke about which I don't recall?)