• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Asta (BC) vs Demon King (NNT)

Demon_Lord18 said:
Neither of these things being magical: šŸ¤”
Click to expand...
It comes from your demonic physiology.

Miasma is a passive corrosion and is something that demons release naturally.

Paralysis induction has only been used against much weaker characters, so I don't know if it would work here.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Whatever that isnā€™t stated to be magicā€¦ should be treated as such given how vague the source of magic is in the verse.
Click to expand...
That's the way it is. Because the power system is magical so all the power present in the verse, will follow the magical. Although it depends on the context, as is the case with this Commandment. I reject this as magical, even though it is declared as magical (so weird).

Also, lazy to respond to this. As already said, that DK never used it in battle. Given that there is no rule of 'Ful power / Use of Commandment on DK', so I am also confused about what DK should do.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Not a wincon.

The ruler itself is magic so Anti Magic negates it easily.
Click to expand...
I did'nt say wincon. The rule only works on magic, anti-magic can handle it

Secret, I just deliberately chose DK because I was bored. Or maybe I'll change my mind to choose Asta
 
Majinere566 said:
5 pages spent on commandment debates that the Demon King never even used in character, The Ruler and few other things is crazy

Someone make a discussion rule to Ban NNT vs BCšŸ˜­
Click to expand...
We are talking about the fact that the demon king canā€™t die as long as the commandments exist and Asta canā€™t negate his regeneration so whatever win con people are voting for is wrong.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
You can't just invalidate people voting for Asta based on your personal takes
Click to expand...
How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta canā€™t stop the DK regeneration since itā€™s not magical and it doesnā€™t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?
 
speedster352 said:
How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta canā€™t stop the DK regeneration since itā€™s not magical and it doesnā€™t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?
Click to expand...
Nooooo speedster, your arguments were that the commandment curses weren't magic. dawg šŸ˜­
 
I havenā€™t made a vote yet. All I did was try and correct some of the misinformation some of the NNT supporters tried to use
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
Merlin had the protection of the Supreme Divinity and eternal life.



Asta has neither of these to resist the commandment of Pacifism.
Click to expand...

SBA would still apply. Asta should have passive resistance to curses since he can cloak himself in anti-magic (his own body literally generates anti-magic power now due to his contract with Liebe) and he HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka. Moreover, curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However, they can be manipulated by magical power.

Asta should have enhanced resistance to curses, considering he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy which seems to work on any energies that are of a paranormal whether it be derived from magical power or anything else. And just to ensure this is not a translation issue, here are the raws, which specifically refer to it as ć€Œåć‚Øćƒćƒ«ć‚®ćƒ¼Anchi enerugÄ« 怍

Also magic isn't the only application of mana or magical power in verse,. To clarify mana is simply defined fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. And it seems curses from NNT are still derived from magical power however it's just a different application of it.

So regardless pacifism even if you want to insist that curses still aren't magic.

MeliodasDeUzyy said:
Also DK will win with Commandments, they're not magic, like what speedster said they are just law based curses that canā€™t be interacted with without special powers and DK can manipulate natural darkness
Click to expand...

Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 怌å‘Ŗ力 juryoku 怍 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power ć€Œé­”åŠ› maryoku怍

For example, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large and that curse was powered by curse power, not magical power as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curse power and its derivatives (curses) because Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's hax shouldn't really affect Asta at all.
 
Last edited:
Xinsignia1 said:
Asta had passive resistance to curses and HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka.

Moreover, he should have enhanced resistance, especially since he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy. Moreover, the raws specifically refer to it as ć€Œåć‚Øćƒćƒ«ć‚®ćƒ¼Anchi enerugÄ« 怍 and has been shown to negate any form of paranormal or supernatural energy in BC, whether it be derived from magical power or anything else.

and just to be clear, magical power is just the name for refined mana, to clear mana is simply defined as fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however, is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. So regardless pacifism isn't really doing anything to Asta.



Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 怌å‘Ŗ力 juryoku 怍 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power ć€Œé­”åŠ› maryoku怍

Moreover, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curses. Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's shouldn't really affect Asta at all.
Click to expand...
Its not same as 7DS
 
MeliodasDeUzyy said:
Its not same as 7DS
Click to expand...

Doesn't need to be exactly the same considering SBA would still apply, and curses in SDS are still derived from magical power, and even if the weren't Asta should still be able to negate them considering they're supernatural in nature, so whether it's derived from magic or not, anti-magic should still be able to negate it given it erases magical power and curse power which are two different energies that power two different phenomena.
 
Last edited:
Declared not magic, but can be manipulated by magic power. Yes, the result is the same as magic, in the end Asta negates the curse of magic, not non-magic.
 
If non-magic power is manipulated by magic power, then the result will be magic. I can say this case is like the darkness in NNT.
 
Faa_Tzy said:
Declared not magic, but can be manipulated by magic power. Yes, the result is the same as magic, in the end Asta negates the curse of magic, not non-magic.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean, but hypothetically speaking even if were were to assume curses in SDS were not derived from magic power and some other type of energy, it still wouldn't affect Asta's abilities to nullify it since he directly negated the source of the curse, which is curse power and not magic power with demon-slayer and demon-dweller which is entirely different from causality break which specifically can only be achieved through demon-destroyer.
 
Last edited:
Demon_Lord18 said:
And Gilthunder's lightning
Click to expand...

Causality break would still nullify considering it was still manipulated by magic. Damnatio uses his magical power to manipulate the atmosphere to attack enemies, yet Asta still nulled it with his causality break shield. So they can try to attack him with natural elements all the want, causality break would stull null it.
 
Xinsignia1 said:
Causality break would still nullify considering it was still manipulated by magic. Damnatio uses his magical power to manipulate the atmosphere to attack enemies, yet Asta still nulled it with his causality break shield. So they can try to attack him with natural elements all the want, causality break would stull null it.
Click to expand...
?
 
Asta doesn't use causality break to reverse someone's own reversing
thats not how he uses it
he still wins tho
 
Faa_Tzy said:
If non-magic power is manipulated by magic power, then the result will be magic. I can say this case is like the darkness in NNT.
Click to expand...

Yeah Darkness has always been confusing to me, but I've thought of two possible assumptions. Magical power is being used to manipulate darkness, or darkness is a differdnt type of supernatural energy. But it does seem likely that darkness, is some supernatural aspect that is manipulated by magical power rather than being magic power itself.
 
Xinsignia1 said:
Ah, sorry could you elaborate on this? (trying to see what you mean)
Click to expand...
Demon king and Asta both use reverse
but Asta cant use reverse in a way that someone else's reverse ability stopped reversing
both of their reverse abilities will cancel each other out
so nothing happens
 
Robo432343 said:
Demon king and Asta both use reverse
but Asta cant use reverse in a way that someone else's reverse ability stopped reversing
both of their reverse abilities will cancel each other out
so nothing happens
Click to expand...

Ha, I see what you mean. But out of curiosity what comment what were you referencing? (unless it was something I misspoke about which I don't recall?)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

KingArthur561
God vs Devil
Replies
5
Views
864
KingArthur561
KingArthur561
Arkenis
Asta vs Merlin
2 3
Replies
110
Views
5K
karo_senpaii
karo_senpaii
Robo432343
Ichigo vs Asta
2 3
Replies
85
Views
4K
Kazuma_kuwabara
Kazuma_kuwabara
Robo432343
Asta vs Juuzou Shishimi
Replies
16
Views
1K
Kazuma_kuwabara
Kazuma_kuwabara
ShadeyD
Asta vs Coronzon
Replies
7
Views
2K
Aseka
Aseka
Back
Top