Arknights AP Downgrade

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hey, hey, fanta here. I done goofed.

This calc, which gave 7-B and High 7-A via Frostnova's multiplier statement, is incorrect. Therefore, I propose that the verse gets downgraded back to High 7-C (112.7 Kilotons) as it was prior to my CRT. Although, there still needs to be issues that need to be resolved in regards to Frostnova's multiplier statement as the statement itself is still valid since it comes from a reliable souce (i.e, from the story itself and from Amiya who is reliable in this regard), which I'll give two solutions in hopes of solving 'em.

Option 1: Base!Frostnova doesn't scale to Talulah's casual High 7-C feat and only her "Winter's Scar" mode does. Therefore, Base!Frostnova is a 100x weaker than her "Winter's Scar" mode, which will make her and those who scale to her base form Low 7-C (1.12 Kilotons) while those who scale to Winter's Scar!Frostnova are High 7-C.

Option 2: Base!Frostnova does to Talulah's casual High 7-C feat since they have explicitly fought and trained with each other. Therefore, Winter's Scar!Frostnova, FP!Talulah and all those who scale to 'em are 7-B (11.27 Megaton) and those who downscale to them are baseline 7-B while those who scale to Base!Frostnova are High 7-C.

As for scaling for the rest of the verse...

For Base!Frostnova, we have Frostleaf managed to disrupted Frostnova's Arts with her Arts despite despite the former's Arts being on a completely different scale from previous showings in their battle.

For Winter's Scar!Frostnova, we have various animated depictions from anime to canon!music videos showing Blaze, Amiya and GreyThroat keeping up with Frostnova even if they were weaker than her overall. Moreover, the game, the "main canon" for this verse, shows this trio taking attacks from Frostnova and being overwhelmed after they have been weakened from a prolonged battle with Frostnova.

Extra: As Nearl was almost killed by Talulah's attack and is stated by Blaze herself as a physical peer of hers, to the point of using Nearl as a benchmark for the strength of another Leader of Reunion, Blaze also has, with allies, fought and took blows from Winter Scar!Frostnova for a notable period as seen above; I therefore propose Winter Scar!Frostnova and those who scale to her should be 7-C+via downscaling from Talulah's calc to Baseline 7-C+ (50 Kilotons) instead of fully scaling to the High 7-C calculation taking into consideration of Nearl almost dying and Frostnova being confident that she could take Talulah down albeit with both of them dying in the process. Furthermore, Amiya stopped Talulah's attack w/o her rings but it pushed her to her limits and Nearl probably isn't too behind Ace who fought and endured attacks from Talulah for awhile before dying. Plus, Frostnova was canonically with Talulah when her High 7-C feat had happened and thus had likely witnessed it firsthand so her statement takes Talulah's feat into consideration.

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On a side note. Let's remove the higher in his prime stuff that Patriot has in his AP, SS, LS, Speed and Dura on his profile. He can't turn rewind time to go back to his prime and his only real showings in canon are his past prime self, so let's get rid of it (and make it into a seperate key once somebody revises his profile).

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Agree: @Violetcyanide, @Kisaragi_Megumi, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Planck69 [Mods] (Option 1 + CO)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Violetcyanide]

I think option 1 is much better.the only reason we got that 100x multiplier is that frostnova has to hold back her power to not hurt her own squad,As she herself says.

Talulah has no reason to scale to this multiplier since she has no need to hold herself back during her attack on rhodes island.

Also the scaling would make no sense,talulah's attack nearly killed nearl and needed both Amiya and nearl arts to cancel out.

If we go with option 2,then frostleaf and nearl will scale to the base frostnova and blaze(who's stats are identical to nearl) and greythroat,(whose way weaker than nearl) to scale 100x times above nearl

I don't think blaze and greythroat are 100x above nearl,so I think option 1 makes more sense.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I think option 1 is much better.the only reason we got that 100x multiplier is that frostnova has to hold back her power to not hurt her own squad,As she herself says.

Talulah has no reason to scale to this multiplier since she has no need to hold herself back during her attack on rhodes island.

Also the scaling would make no sense,talulah's attack nearly killed nearl and needed both Amiya and nearl arts to cancel out.

If we go with option 2,then frostleaf and nearl will scale to the base frostnova and blaze(who's stats are identical to nearl) and greythroat,(whose way weaker than nearl) to scale 100x times above nearl

I don't think blaze and greythroat are 100x above nearl,so I think option 1 makes more sense.

Got'cha.

BTW, you agree with removing the higher in his prime stuff on Patriot's profile?

 

[Violetcyanide]

Got'cha.

BTW, you agree with removing the higher in his prime stuff on Patriot's profile?

Agree,it would be much better as just a key.since prime patriot has his own scaling from future ops.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Had a thought regarding Nearl and Amiya w/o Rings. With a few other things taking into consideration.

Basically, I think Winter Scar!Frostnova shouldn't be High 7-C but rather should be 7-C+ instead.

Simply put, it is due to Blaze and co. Yes, overall it is pretty clear Frostnova was above them... But not to a large degree. Since they could fight her and not get one-shotted until after Blaze and Amiya ran out of gas for their Arts due to an intense battle. Unlike what happened with Nearl against Talulah and how she needed Amiya's help. And like what Violet said, Blaze and Nearl share the same stats-with the former even complimenting the latter's durability and using it as a benchmark for Faust's strength in C5, IIRC.

This isn't even considering Frostnova likely had no idea of Talulah's full strength, Talulah only considering Patriot as the only one who could possibly kill her or the fact One Ring!Amiya faced DBS!Talulah, a much stronger Talulah than the one Frostnova knew and she outright didn't want Amiya to use her rings in her final battle against her.

Stopping all of this yaping... I propose Winter Scar!Frostnova and those who scale to her should be 7-C+ (56.35 Kilotons) taking into consideration that Nearl and Base!Amiya needed to work together to stop Talulah's attack and the fact Nearl is a physical peer of Blaze but still almost died from Talulah's attack.

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And onto Ops on the level of Frostleaf, i.e those who rated Standard (and above), should we set up a guideline for scaling for 'em?

We do have the Physical Examation stats to help. IMO, while they probs aren't fully valid with special ops like Skadi, Sui Siblings and so on, they prob are valid with the more "normal" ops like Midnight and Pre-Timeskip!Kroos for example.

But still... there is a bunch of Ops who never even get a few moments to shine in Story EPs-with only a lucky few having Event Story EPs and OP Recs as a saving grace. Like Waai Fu, for example. I have no idea what is a valid way to scale her so I haven't really touched her profile yet despite the CRTs.

To solve this issue I got a rough idea of Low Tiers (Normal Ops like Frostleaf and Croissant) are 1.12 Kilotons, Mid Tiers (Ops like Blaze and Nearl) are 56.35 Kilotons and Top Tiers (Ops like Ch'en, Kal'tsit via Prep and Mon3tr and Amiya w/rings) are 112.7 Kilotons.

Open to suggestions to improve this rough idea.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree on the option 1
I also agree on the solving problem regarding Nearl and Amiya w/o rings

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Like Waai Fu, for example. I have no idea what is a valid way to scale her so I haven't really touched her profile yet despite the CRTs.

What if i tell you, that we have the short animation about her and Lee Detective agency?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

What if i tell you, that we have the short animation about her and Lee Detective agency?

... I don't know what that group is, lel.

Send me the link, tho, it'll help me a lot. BTW. maybe we can also use this CRT to tidy up Justifications or smth too.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Option 1 looks alright.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

... I don't know what that group is, lel.

Send me the link, tho, it'll help me a lot. BTW. maybe we can also use this CRT to tidy up Justifications or smth too.

Can't link it atm
Maybe the rest can help you here or in discord

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Can't link it atm
Maybe the rest can help you here or in discord

Thanks.

Option 1 looks alright.

Thanks.

BTW. Could you check out the "Extra" portion I added? TLDR of what it is about: Character A (Frostnova) doesn't fully scale to Character B (Talulah)'s High 7-C feat as Character C (Nearl) took notable injury from B but could still continue to fight to degree while Character D (Blaze) directly scales to both Chara A and C, thus, I propose Chara A, C, D scale to Baseline 7-C+ through downscaling to B's High 7-C feat (which is only 1.12700x above baseline High 7-C). Plus, there is Character E (Amiya) who scales to Chara A, C and D who stopped Chara B's attack (without her power-up/transformation) but it pushed her to her limits, so more evidence towards downscaling.

 

[Planck69]

Option 1 looks good to me.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Option 1 looks good to me.

Sweet. Second Mod vote!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

BTW. Could you check out the "Extra" portion I added? TLDR of what it is about: Character A (Frostnova) doesn't fully scale to Character B (Talulah)'s High 7-C feat as Character C (Nearl) took notable injury from B but could still continue to fight to degree while Character D (Blaze) directly scales to both Chara A and C, thus, I propose Chara A, C, D scale to Baseline 7-C+ through downscaling to B's High 7-C feat (which is only 1.12700x above baseline High 7-C). Plus, there is Character E (Amiya) who scales to Chara A, C and D who stopped Chara B's attack (without her power-up/transformation) but it pushed her to her limits, so more evidence towards downscaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 What do you guys think?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Bump

 

[Arkenis]

damn and I made like three matches with them

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

damn and I made like three matches with them

It happens, lel.

Honestly, it is much better for my error to be called out this early and not months or years from now, tbf.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

BUMP

IG, if DDM or Planck didn't come back... neither of 'em have any issues??? Have two mod votes already, so ig I could start applying the chances but am unsure if I should

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Got this redo of Frostnova's storm approved.

It's result is 350.41 Kilotons. Should we use it and apply the multiper or nah?

 

[Violetcyanide]

So about this calc

Got this redo of Frostnova's storm approved.

1.Why the 6 second timeframe?
The snowing comes from the clouds which she formed in literally the same exact cutscene 5 minutes prior.

Unless you are saying that frostnova took the time to make a snow storm Here.then for whatever reason, dissipated the cloud and reformed them 5 minutes earlier.this timeframe makes no sense.

2.Just because lungmen is shown to divided into 22 plates doesn't mean so does chernobog,lungmen might just have more plates than shown. also,they are cities built by completely different nations.they probably have nothing in common.

3.Assuming that frostnova created a snowstorm across all of the singular division is a assumption with no basis.since there is no evidence of this.

if anything we have evidence against this,the calc required the sky to be clear

The snowstorm has to cover the entire sky on a priorly clean day or needs to be at least 20km in radius.

Amiya says in 4-8 that the sky was Getting darker.this goes against the requirements of the calc.

So,It's highly likely that the snowstorm was limited to the immediate vicinity of the location and not anywhere else.

I don't think using a calc with that many assumptions is reasonable.so I don't believe we should use it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So about this calc

1.Why the 6 second timeframe?
The snowing comes from the clouds which she formed in literally the same exact cutscene 5 minutes prior.

Unless you are saying that frostnova took the time to make a snow storm Here.then for whatever reason, dissipated the cloud and reformed them 5 minutes earlier.this timeframe makes no sense.

2.Just because lungmen is shown to divided into 22 plates doesn't mean so does chernobog,lungmen might just have more plates than shown. also,they are cities built by completely different nations.they probably have nothing in common.

3.Assuming that frostnova created a snowstorm across all of the singular division is a assumption with no basis.since there is no evidence of this.

if anything we have evidence against this,the calc required the sky to be clear

Amiya says in 4-8 that the sky was Getting darker.this goes against the requirements of the calc.

So,It's highly likely that the snowstorm was limited to the immediate vicinity of the location and not anywhere else.

I don't think using a calc with that many assumptions is reasonable.so I don't believe we should use it.

Ye, fair.

BTW

BTW. Could you check out the "Extra" portion I added? TLDR of what it is about: Character A (Frostnova) doesn't fully scale to Character B (Talulah)'s High 7-C feat as Character C (Nearl) took notable injury from B but could still continue to fight to degree while Character D (Blaze) directly scales to both Chara A and C, thus, I propose Chara A, C, D scale to Baseline 7-C+ through downscaling to B's High 7-C feat (which is only 1.12700x above baseline High 7-C). Plus, there is Character E (Amiya) who scales to Chara A, C and D who stopped Chara B's attack (without her power-up/transformation) but it pushed her to her limits, so more evidence towards downscaling.

Thoughts?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Btw we can applied this now, two mods has approved it

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Just remembered this. Main issue for me, rn, is how to change Frostnova's justification alongside a few other characters like Low Tier Ops like Croissant and co.

In my mind, rn, justifications are like this:

Frostnova - Low 7-C normally (Is over a hundred times weaker than her Winter Scar mode), 7-C+ with Winter's Scar (Can fight Talulah and confident she could kill her, but she was also certain it would result in her demise and wasn't wholly aware of Talulah's true strength)

Low Tiers - (Comparable to Frostleaf in Originium Adaptability, who managed to disrupted [[Frostnova]]'s Arts with her Arts despite it being on a completely different scale than before. Should be also comparable to Greyy the Lightningbearer in Originium Adaptability, who managed to pierce through "Awaken", which is this strong)

Any suggestions or fixes? If nobody has any objections, I can start applying this CRT to the profiles.