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Arceus's Speed Downgrade and Others

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Enryu The Red Tower said:
So the conclusion I cited remains the same, but with LT comAbstract Type 1 and 2?
Click to expand...
Type 2 is simply Immortality reliant on a concept.

This seems more either type 1 or 3.
 
Type 1 might be better since they created from Arceus very being. It should give them the same nature.
 
Vtw, if they are type 1 concepts, they should also get type 8 Immortality, as you would need to affect the abstraction to affect them.
 
[I]Magi Hussie said:
[/I]

Edit: Anyways, what are the current conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
Acausality (Type 4) for Arceus, Lake Trio and Creation Trio

Self-Sustenence (Types 1, 2 and 3) for Arceus, LT and CT

Abstract Existence (Type 1) for Arceus, LT and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) for Arceus and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4) for LT

Avatar Creation for Arceus, LT and CT

Immortality (Type 8 and 9) for Arceus, LT and CT

Creation for LT
 
Tbf

I don't think the additions should've been made yet as there was still discussion and I'll wait for Assalt to come as well to give his input.
 
RotofBots said:
Tbf
I don't think the additions should've been made yet as there was still discussion and I'll wait for Assalt to come as well to give his input.
Click to expand...
I did contact multiple staffs members who are supporters and Knowledge Members though; At this point, I have waited a lot or many days.
 
DMB 1 said:
You still haven't proven that matter and souls in that context are concepts.
Click to expand...
They have concept manipulation for more than this reasoning as I have shown with the Spirits' example from Rimuru world and CT like Dialgia would qualified for it. You did not comment on it.
 
"Shaping the world" =/= having type 3 Concept Manipulation, which is the entire argument Neo used to try at giving them said ability.
 
Nedge1000 said:
They have concept manipulation for more than this reasoning as I have shown with the Spirits' example from Rimuru world and CT like Dialgia would qualified for it. You did not comment on it.
Click to expand...
Conceptual Creation for LT can be scaled to either CT and Arceus (mainly to Arceus, since both two trios are only aspects of the God Lhama)?
 
Enryu The Red Tower said:
Nedge1000 said:
They have concept manipulation for more than this reasoning as I have shown with the Spirits' example from Rimuru world and CT like Dialgia would qualified for it. You did not comment on it.
Click to expand...
Conceptual Creation for LT can be scaled to either CT and Arceus (mainly to Arceus, since both two trios are only aspects of the God Lhama)?
Click to expand...
Yes, also a point of mine.
 
I was summoned. This thread is pretty thicc; can someone give me a summary of the concept/abstraction portion of the discussion? I'd appreciate it.
 
Acausality (Type 4) for Arceus, Lake Trio and Creation Trio

Self-Sustenence (Types 1, 2 and 3) for Arceus, LT and CT

Abstract Existence (Type 1) for Arceus, LT and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) for Arceus and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4) for LT

Avatar Creation for Arceus, LT and CT

Immortality (Type 8 and 9) for Arceus, LT and CT

Creation for LT
 
@Assalt

It's regarding what type of conceptual manipulation the Pokémon Gods should get and if the LT should get it.
 
Current proposals:

Acausality (Type 4) for Arceus, Lake Trio and Creation Trio

Self-Sustenence (Types 1, 2 and 3) for Arceus, LT and CT

Abstract Existence (Type 1) for Arceus, LT and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) for Arceus and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4) for LT

Avatar Creation for Arceus, LT and CT

Immortality (Type 8 and 9) for Arceus, LT and CT

Concept Creation for LT
 
NeoZex6399 said:
-3. Aristotelian Concept: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself.

"From itself, two beings the Original One did make.
Time started to spin. Space began to expand.
From itself again, three living things the Original One did make.
The two beings wished, and from them, matter came to be.
The three living things wished, and from them, spirit came to be."

"Those three beings I read to mean the three Pokémon of the lakes. It's about Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf.
The myth describes how they gave spirit to the world, shaping it."

"Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."

This counts as Concept Creation?
Click to expand...
@Assalt

This is what's being proposed.
 
I definitely don't agree with conceptual creation for the CT/LT. they are conceptual embodiments and then creating matter/spirit does not mean they created the concepts of matter/spirit.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
@Nedge Where is new concept manipulation coming from?
Click to expand...
Also,

The case of the creation is similar to the Spirit's description in pokemon on Rimuru Tempest's profile.

Spirits are type 3 concepts as their birth give rise to the existence of their respective element, for example, time never existed until the Spirit of Time was born - synonymous to Dialga's case.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
I definitely don't agree with conceptual creation for the CT/LT. they are conceptual embodiments and then creating matter/spirit does not mean they created the concepts of matter/spirit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't think they're conceptual creators either. Embodiments I'll argue til my grave, but Arceus is the creator.
 
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